The Melting Pot

[Universe Prince]

Please define your use of the term diversity.

Variety, differing from one another, having differing characteristics, heterogeneity.

Are you saying hyphenated status is more important that national status?

irish- american takes precedence over american?

No. I'm saying Irish-Americans are no more or no less American than German-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Mexican-Americans, whatever. And vice versa, if you catch my drift. I'm saying people like Mr. Pournelle, who certainly appear to object to diversity, are wrong to do so. I'm saying there never was a time when immigrants all came here to assimilate and be American and speak nothing but English. I'm saying that I don't consider people who come here to live and work and play to be un-American if they don't learn English. I'm saying that American culture is what it is because people from other places came here, bringing their cultures and languages and foods and ideas with them. I'm saying the diversity of our people, the heterogeneity of our society is our society, and our culture, and our strength. I'm saying it is a good thing, not something to lament. I'm saying diversity is the Melting Pot, and I, for one, am very glad we have it.

[Plane]

Please define your use of the term diversity.

Variety, differing from one another, having differing characteristics, heterogeneity.

Are you saying hyphenated status is more important that national status?

irish- american takes precedence over american?

No. I'm saying Irish-Americans are no more or no less American than German-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Mexican-Americans, whatever. And vice versa, if you catch my drift. I'm saying people like Mr. Pournelle, who certainly appear to object to diversity, are wrong to do so. I'm saying there never was a time when immigrants all came here to assimilate and be American and speak nothing but English. I'm saying that I don't consider people who come here to live and work and play to be un-American if they don't learn English. I'm saying that American culture is what it is because people from other places came here, bringing their cultures and languages and foods and ideas with them. I'm saying the diversity of our people, the heterogeneity of our society is our society, and our culture, and our strength. I'm saying it is a good thing, not something to lament. I'm saying diversity is the Melting Pot, and I, for one, am very glad we have it.

I do't think that Diversity was one of the origional aims of our Nations founding , but it has been a good trend to gradually spread the franchise .

How would you describe our national identity.

[BT]

And vice versa, if you catch my drift.

Actually i don't.

Am I an American or a German-Irish-American?

Which is the set and which is the subset?

[Universe Prince]

Am I an American or a German-Irish-American?

Yes.

Which is the set and which is the subset?

Oh come on. You know the answer to that.

And vice versa, if you catch my drift.

Actually i don't.

You're not dense. Don't give me that. No subset is more or less American than any other. Am I not communicating plainly? Am I using esoteric phrases or obfuscatory language? I don't believe I am. How can there be this much confusion over what I'm saying? I spelled it out for you. In English. No foreign words. No complicated phrasing. Just straightforward and direct. How hard can understanding it be?

[Universe Prince]

I do't think that Diversity was one of the origional aims of our Nations founding , but it has been a good trend to gradually spread the franchise .

Not one of the aims of the immigrants and descendants of immigrants who came here from somewhere else? Possibly not. But then it didn't need to be.

How would you describe our national identity.

Diverse. New York has a different culture than New Orleans. New Orleans has a different culture than San Fransisco. San Fransisco has a different culture than Denver. Denver has a different culture than Anchorage. Anchorage has a different culture than Dallas. No, they are probably not wildly different, but different enough to be called diverse. The population of the U.S. is diverse. The religions are diverse. The colors are diverse. The foods are diverse. The clothes are diverse. Out of many, one. I like it that way, and I confess I don't understand why some people have a problem with it.

[BT]

Am I an American or a German-Irish-American?

Yes.

Which is the set and which is the subset?

Oh come on. You know the answer to that.

And vice versa, if you catch my drift.

Actually i don't.

You're not dense. Don't give me that. No subset is more or less American than any other. Am I not communicating plainly? Am I using esoteric phrases or obfuscatory language? I don't believe I am. How can there be this much confusion over what I'm saying? I spelled it out for you. In English. No foreign words. No complicated phrasing. Just straightforward and direct. How hard can understanding it be?

If you refuse to answer the questions, just say so. That would probably save us both a lot of time.

I don't really see what is so difficult about the questions, they are pretty straight forward.

I am not ranking subsets, i am asking if they are in fact subsets or are they in fact sets.

[Universe Prince]

If you refuse to answer the questions, just say so. That would probably save us both a lot of time.

I don't really see what is so difficult about the questions, they are pretty straight forward.

I am not ranking subsets, i am asking if they are in fact subsets or are they in fact sets.

Sweet jelly beans! Are you kidding me? No, you're probably not.

Am I not communicating plainly? Am I using esoteric phrases or obfuscatory language? I don't believe I am. How can there be this much confusion over what I'm saying? I spelled it out for you once already. In English. No foreign words. No complicated phrasing. Just straightforward and direct. How hard can understanding it be?

Pooh yi. Okay. Let's walk you through this like you're a child since that is the way you want to be treated.

Am I an American or a German-Irish-American?

Yes. As as in yes to both. You see, I think you can be both without contradiction. And by that I mean, of course, there is no reason you cannot be both. A contradiction would be like saying something is both an apple and a dog. An apple and a dog are two very different things. An apple is a fruit and a dog is an animal. On the other hand, if I said something was both a dog and an Irish Setter, that wouldn't be a contradiction, because an Irish Setter is a kind of a dog. And if I said something was both an apple and a Golden Delicious apple, that wouldn't be a contradiction because a Golden Delicious  is a kind of apple. So you can be both an American and a German-Irish-American because a German-Irish-American is a kind of an American. No, no, now I'm not saying it's a breed. Don't be silly. It's just in the matter of language, you know, how we describe things. Some people have Japanese ancestors (ancestors being like parents or grand parents or great-grand parents and so on) and some might call them Japanese-Americans. Some people have Italian ancestors, and some might call them Italian-American. Some have German and Irish ancestors, and some might call them German-Irish-Americans. It's just a kind of a name to show one's ancestry.

And for the record, I don't really care if you want to be called just American or just German-Irish-American or both. Makes no difference to me.

Which is the set and which is the subset?

Oh come on. You know the answer to that. As in, I figured you were educated enough to know out of American and German-Irish-American which would be the set and the subset. Apparently not. Pay attention now. The group of American people has a lot more people in it than just German-Irish-Americans. Remember how we were talking before about Japanese-Americans and Italian-Americans? Well, there are lot of those kinds of groups, and they're all Americans. German-Irish-Americans are a smaller part of that larger group we call Americans. Generally a subset is a set that is part of a larger set. Now, think about this a moment, which group, American or German-Irish-American is the larger set of the two? That's right, American is the larger set. And does German-Irish-American fit within that larger set? Think about it for just a little bit. Yes, yes it does. So which one is the set and which one is the subset? Come on, now, think about it. American is the larger set and German-Irish-American is a smaller set within the larger set. So German-Irish-American would be the... subset.

Okay, lessons are over for for right now. If you're still confused, feel free to come back later and ask more questions, and I'll conde... I mean, I'll explain the answers to you as best I can. Run along now. Teacher has a headache.

[kimba1]

here`s the thing about diversity.
it makes things interesting
do people in ireland vacation within thier country?
san francisco is a crazy non-logic thinking bottle city(kandor)
but it still the primo vacation spot for U.S. for that very reason

[BT]

I see no reason for insults, but if it helps with your self esteem issues it is ok with me.

When i was travelling through Europe in the early seventies, people would come up to me and ask if i was American.

Should i have been insulted that they didn't identify me as a German-Irish-American or should i have been satisfied that that they got the main group right?

[_JS]

I see no reason for insults, but if it helps with your self esteem issues it is ok with me.

When i was travelling through Europe in the early seventies, people would come up to me and ask if i was American.

Should i have been insulted that they didn't identify me as a German-Irish-American or should i have been satisfied that that they got the main group right?

Why does it matter?

If someone sees himself or herself as being Jewish before being an American, then who are you to tell that person that they are wrong? If someone sees himself or herself as being working class before being an American, or being a Greek or Italian-American, what does that matter to you?

Last I checked there is no law that says we have one national identity and everyone must follow it.

The United States has extremely varied cultures. I really don't understand your argument here.

[gipper]

To advance JS's point a little, I would here introduce the concept of fluidity, or shifting emphases as to identity.

[BT]

Who says i am arguing anything.


I have never said one hyphenated group was better than another.

I have never said diversity was bad.

I am simply looking for clarification.

I am not a big fan of balkanization.

I think consensus for the group can derive from debate and compromise from all subgroups with a stake.

So yes i think a liberal-american can work with a conservative- american. Yes i thing a NE-Republican can work with a Southern- Republican. I think a bluedog -democrat can work with a dean-democrat as well as a southern- Republican.

Perhaps my question is better phrased by asking if the best outcome of the whole supercedes the best interest of the subgroup.

And yes i think it matters simply because it lays out the ground rules for doing business.

If you disagree with that, tell me why.



 

 

[Universe Prince]

I see no reason for insults,

Then stop insulting me with questions like this:

Should i have been insulted that they didn't identify me as a German-Irish-American or should i have been satisfied that that they got the main group right?

Should you have been insulted that they didn't identify something they probably couldn't know? Wow, what an insightful and probing question delving right to the heart... no, no, it's not. That is a really dumb question. What part of "And for the record, I don't really care if you want to be called just American or just German-Irish-American or both," did you not understand?

[BT]

How are you insulted by my questions?

Are they beneath you?

[Plane]

I do't think that Diversity was one of the origional aims of our Nations founding , but it has been a good trend to gradually spread the franchise .

Not one of the aims of the immigrants and descendants of immigrants who came here from somewhere else? Possibly not. But then it didn't need to be.

How would you describe our national identity.

Diverse. New York has a different culture than New Orleans. New Orleans has a different culture than San Fransisco. San Fransisco has a different culture than Denver. Denver has a different culture than Anchorage. Anchorage has a different culture than Dallas. No, they are probably not wildly different, but different enough to be called diverse. The population of the U.S. is diverse. The religions are diverse. The colors are diverse. The foods are diverse. The clothes are diverse. Out of many, one. I like it that way, and I confess I don't understand why some people have a problem with it.

Is there an American national identity?

Is there a reason for us to cohere?