It starts at home...

[BT]

In my town that's is called yard art and is protected.

Of course the majority of us are self employed, and aren't real good at following silly rules.

[richpo64]

But you don't live in a community governed by covenants and restrictions. Something like that would never fly in my neighborhood, and I'm fine with that. It's not as bad as living in a condo, but it does make for a nice neighborhood.

[Universe Prince]

Judging by your response i am not sure whether you are for or against local building codes. Are you?

Am I for or against local building codes? Yes. I am definitely for or against local building codes.

I am also not sure whether you understand a house full of feces affects not only the dweller but public safety officials called to the scene because of a fire or medical emergency.

I might. I was mostly objecting to the sort of "reasonable people are obviously for these things" implication in your comments. I'm sure the folks who want the ordinance to allow town officials to judge and enforce standards of upkeep inside and outside a home think it's reasonable.

Would you say a precautionary ordinance reflecting this reality is also out of line.

That depends on the ordinance.

What's the adage? Your rights end where my nose begins?

I don't know the adage, but it sounds wrong, on several levels. I know there is some common phrase about "your rights end where mine begin" or something like that. I'm all for laws used to protect property rights. And no doubt the folks who want the town or city to have the authority to demand entrance to one's home anytime they feel like it believe they are protecting something. Usually themselves. And people like me who object, well, we're pretty much always considered unreasonable.

I get CU4LG's (ironic) point about not moving into a neighborhood whose homeowners association rules you don't plan to obey. When they pass further rules after one moves in, is one left with the option of compliance or moving out? When the town or city passes a law like the one mentioned in the article, obey the law or move out? Is that it? We just keep forcing the people whose ideas and/or individual expressions we don't like to conform or move out of the neighborhood?

We have people in our neighborhood who occasionally drive around looking for lawns with conditions they don't like. It's all purely subjective. And then they make sure the HA sends out notices. As I understand it, when the previous owner of the house I live in now had a small building put up in the back of the large back yard without first submitting plans to the HA, the HA nearly had a fit despite the fact that the building is barely visible from the street, matches the style of the house and no adjacent neighbors complained.

Yes, someone somewhere believes all these rules and laws are perfectly reasonable. And if they were administered and enforced in a reasonable manner, they might be. But you and I both know that is not what happens. What happens is people become control freaks. What might be reasonable uniform standards become unreasonable standards of uniformity. What should be merely about protecting other people's property becomes about protecting other people's narrow minded preferences. We end up making rules and laws about what can be put up in the yard, what color the houses can be, what kind of architecture is allowed, how tall the grass should be, how much grass there should be, et cetera.

And now there are towns and cities that apparently want to make these things laws and have officials that judge and enforce these things both outside and inside the homes. I see it as creeping authoritarianism happening exactly as I've said it would. People demanding it for themselves. It's all about making those people over there conform. And what we've done is erode property rights. More and more, the "homeowner" does not own his or her home. The city owns it, the state owns it, the nation owns it, everyone but the "homeowner" owns it. And the "homeowner" is required to pay for the privilege to pretend to own his home.

Some people might find that reasonable. I don't. If that makes me unreasonable, then so be it.

[BT]

Am I for or against local building codes? Yes. I am definitely for or against local building codes.

I congratulate you on having the courage to take a stand on such a controversial position.

I might. I was mostly objecting to the sort of "reasonable people are obviously for these things" implication in your comments. I'm sure the folks who want the ordinance to allow town officials to judge and enforce standards of upkeep inside and outside a home think it's reasonable.

And again, taking a courageous stand on the feline feces issue. Bravo!

Our town has an ordinance about grass height.

It has no ordinance about painting your house. The house next to mine has bare plywood panels for exterior walls. People complain except during property assessment time, when it is the most photographed dwelling in town. It seems to lower property.  values. Prospective buyers are told it is owned by a purple heart viet nam vet and his estate will eventually do something with it.

Hasn't hurt home sales.

[Universe Prince]

I congratulate you on having the courage to take a stand on such a controversial position.

Thank you, thank you. I do what I can.

And again, taking a courageous stand on the feline feces issue. Bravo!

I was not aware it required a stand from me, courageous or otherwise. Nice piece of sarcasm though. I can't fault you for that.

Seems a bit odd though, you criticizing me on this when you've apparently taken the position that proposed law mentioned in the article is just something people have to tolerate because that's the way city council can be. It's so unfair to criticize the law, your posts seem to imply, because they people making the law are just trying to do a difficult job. Aw, the poor little dears. Yes indeed, I'd say your stand is far more "courageous" than mine. So bravo to you, sir, bravo to you.

[BT]

Seems a bit odd though, you criticizing me on this when you've apparently taken the position that proposed law mentioned in the article is just something people have to tolerate because that's the way city council can be. It's so unfair to criticize the law, your posts seem to imply, because they people making the law are just trying to do a difficult job. Aw, the poor little dears. Yes indeed, I'd say your stand is far more "courageous" than mine. So bravo to you, sir, bravo to you.

My posts said nothing of the kind. I simply tried to explain the way things work. And one of the things that happened ( as is often the case) is the press got involved, ( and they got involved because the citizenry caught wind of what was coming up through committee) before the ordinance was passed and if my reading was correct, tabled for further review.

[Universe Prince]

Yeah. I read the article too. And I know what your posts said. I read them as well.

[BT]

Yeah. I read the article too. And I know what your posts said. I read them as well.

Then why in the world would you misrepresent what i said?

[Universe Prince]

Did I?

[BT]

Did I?

yes

Seems a bit odd though, you criticizing me on this when you've apparently taken the position that proposed law mentioned in the article is just something people have to tolerate because that's the way city council can be.

Never criticized you nor did I take the position that that is just something the people have to tolerate. If I did, where did i do it?

It's so unfair to criticize the law, your posts seem to imply, because they people making the law are just trying to do a difficult job. Aw, the poor little dears. Yes indeed, I'd say your stand is far more "courageous" than mine. So bravo to you, sir, bravo to you.

Never said that either. And if i did, where?

[Universe Prince]

And again, taking a courageous stand on the feline feces issue. Bravo!

Come on. That wasn't sarcastic criticism?

This is one of those filler stories. Local government run amuck. And they do get carried away sometimes, believe me I know.

But consider this.

Is it a frontal assault on liberty to require that homes be built to minimum safety standards as prescribed in building codes?

Is it a frontal assault on liberty to require a working septic or plumbing system so that raw sewage is not puddled in your yard or your neighbors yards or migrating into the water table?

Is it an assault on liberty to require minimum standards for animal housing so that cat ladies do not collect thousands of kitties and live in dwellings feet deep in feline feces?

Reasonable people might agree that these are worthy ordinances.

But when these ordinances are reviewed by committees what comes in as a horse often comes out as a zebra.

Imagine this forum trying to come up with an housing standard ordinance. That gives you an idea what council can be like.

Seems a bit odd though, you criticizing me on this when you've apparently taken the position that proposed law mentioned in the article is just something people have to tolerate because that's the way city council can be. It's so unfair to criticize the law, your posts seem to imply, because they people making the law are just trying to do a difficult job. Aw, the poor little dears. Yes indeed, I'd say your stand is far more "courageous" than mine. So bravo to you, sir, bravo to you.

Your reply to the story was basically, "yes it sounds bad, but..." And then you mentioned building codes and animal care laws, and said, "Reasonable people might agree that these are worthy ordinances." I'm not sure how your words do not carry the implication that the Kenneth City Council and its proposal have somehow been unfairly criticized.

[BT]

Come on. That wasn't sarcastic criticism?

No that was sarcasm.

Your reply to the story was basically, "yes it sounds bad, but..." And then you mentioned building codes and animal care laws, and said, "Reasonable people might agree that these are worthy ordinances." I'm not sure how your words do not carry the implication that the Kenneth City Council and its proposal have somehow been unfairly criticized.

Perhaps my opening sentence would provide a clue

This is one of those filler stories. Local government run amuck. And they do get carried away sometimes, believe me I know.

[Brassmask]

My neighborhood would probably benefit from some upkeep ordinances.  I spent last weekend ranking my yard, cleaning my curbs where leaves had collected (I also went ahead and edged and mowed my yard though it has already started winter browning). 

An hour after I was done, the boy and I headed out to run an errand and the curbs had already collected fresh leaves from the high winds clearing neighbors' yards.

I often daydream while mowing and edging and planting in my own yard that if I ever won the lottery, I would quit working and, among other dreams, in the summer, I would maintain a team of landscapers who I would take door to door in my neighborhood offering to generally upkeep and improve everyone's yards.  I would even start a fund to keep it going after I died.

[Plane]

My neighborhood would probably benefit from some upkeep ordinances.  I spent last weekend ranking my yard, cleaning my curbs where leaves had collected (I also went ahead and edged and mowed my yard though it has already started winter browning). 

An hour after I was done, the boy and I headed out to run an errand and the curbs had already collected fresh leaves from the high winds clearing neighbors' yards.

I often daydream while mowing and edging and planting in my own yard that if I ever won the lottery, I would quit working and, among other dreams, in the summer, I would maintain a team of landscapers who I would take door to door in my neighborhood offering to generally upkeep and improve everyone's yards.  I would even start a fund to keep it going after I died.

Could you find enough likeminded persons to make this really happen?

People don't really need Barn raisins , quiltin bees , corn shuckins and the like anymore , but the social occasion went away when the chore went away.

There are a lot of little old ladies that arn't rakeing their leaves because they can't , but they might bake some cookies for the party that followed a neighborhood rakein.

[The_Professor]

Am I for or against local building codes? Yes. I am definitely for or against local building codes.

I congratulate you on having the courage to take a stand on such a controversial position.

I might. I was mostly objecting to the sort of "reasonable people are obviously for these things" implication in your comments. I'm sure the folks who want the ordinance to allow town officials to judge and enforce standards of upkeep inside and outside a home think it's reasonable.

And again, taking a courageous stand on the feline feces issue. Bravo!

Our town has an ordinance about grass height.

It has no ordinance about painting your house. The house next to mine has bare plywood panels for exterior walls. People complain except during property assessment time, when it is the most photographed dwelling in town. It seems to lower property.  values. Prospective buyers are told it is owned by a purple heart viet nam vet and his estate will eventually do something with it.

Hasn't hurt home sales.

If this is indeed a disabled vet's home, why doesn't the neighborhood get together and paint it for him/her? After all, it IS the Season of Giving!