question about prolife &religion

[kimba1]

I always thought that`s racist
it gives the message that it`s better to keep a child in the systyem than to have a child raise by white parents.
have you notice not much is said about the lack of non-white couples adopting.
In my community I know nobody adopting.

[Henny]

Idea came to me from a ealy post
if a family has 7 kids
is it a sin for the father to have a vasectomy?
or to use birth control?
would the prolife people or the church object?

In the Catholic Church, yes, it would be a sin. The only acceptable birth control is the Rythym Method/Calendar Method.

[The_Professor]

wow thanks seamus

this also brings more questions

is it wrong for couple to decide to never have sex??
<The sexual act - or, the marital act or one-flesh union - is a physical expression of a couple's marriage commitment. In a very real sense, when a couple engages in one-flesh union, they are renewing their wedding vows, an essential component of which is to accept children lovingly from God (cf.
Gen. 1:28, 2:24; Luke 1:38).>

is the willingness to not renew their marriage vows.

this question maybe too involve to get an answer.

I do notice couple who decide not have children get harassed abit.
of course every parent says they don`t harass
but on this subject they hardly can be called civil.
the most common phrased spoken is selfish

Well, as I'm not a self proclaimed pro-lifer OR pro-choicer, and I'm rather agnostic...  All I can say about NOT having children as being selfish is... Overpopulation Much???

Seems to me it's almost more selfish to HAVE children when there are thousands who are being born that are either being put in the system or SHOULD be.  We have plenty already...

Well, I can provide an example of the opposite. My wife and I have five children and, as you know, we recently adopted a little girl form Ethiopia. Many in my wife's side of the family called it "selfish" and refused to come to a dinner we had to introduce her to the rest of the family and it has stirred quite alot of angst for sure. There is no communication now between us and those parts of the extended family...sigh.

[The_Professor]

I'm trying to say that there are many children to adopt.

Tried adopting one in this country recently?

It's such a pain that my sister went to China and Russia to adopt her two kids. They pretty much told her and my brother in law that since they're white, and most of the kids available for adoption in the US are black, hispanic, or mixed race, that it would be near impossible for them to adopt one of 'em. Seems like the powers that be frown on whites raising colored babies and go to lengths to prevent it from happening.

We encountered this as well. This is a major reaosn why recently adopted from Ethiopia.

[The_Professor]

I always thought that`s racist
it gives the message that it`s better to keep a child in the system than to have a child raise by white parents.
have you notice not much is said about the lack of nonwhite couples adopting.
In my community I know nobody adopting.

I asked this question of the adoption agency. They said that it is extremely rare for nonwhites to adopt. Any reasons why?

[Cynthia]

There is no communication now between us and those parts of the extended family...sigh.


..and if there were communication between "you and parts of the extended familia", would it be truly worth your time? Values are at such odds here that it seems to me that you haven't lost much. Shame on those who chose to cut off communicating because of their OWN selfish act. To shun or ignore family because of a choice to raise a human being?....sigh, indeed. I would sigh because they "don't get it", Professor.
Good for you and your wife.
The world needs more like you.

[kimba1]

professor
I`m truely sorry this actrually  happened to you
You see that was my next topic
what you just experience is not a rare occurance.
that magic word selfish is so misused
I think you and your wife are doing a great thing.

[Lanya]

I agree, Professor, it's a wonderful thing you did.   And as to the parts of the family that are not accepting, also agree that it might not be worth keeping in contact with that branch of the family, if they don't come around.

My experience with people in my area who are adopting bi-racial children is that it's their grandparents, often, doing the adopting.  Sometimes it's not a formal adoption, they get custody because  the biological mom or dad is unable, unwilling or unfit to care for the child.

[Seamus]

I'm trying to say that there are many children to adopt.

Tried adopting one in this country recently?

Nope

It's such a pain that my sister went to China and Russia to adopt her two kids. They pretty much told her and my brother in law that since they're white, and most of the kids available for adoption in the US are black, hispanic, or mixed race, that it would be near impossible for them to adopt one of 'em. Seems like the powers that be frown on whites raising colored babies and go to lengths to prevent it from happening.

Well, I WAS going to say because of overpopulation in the WORLD, but I didn't want to generalize.  I don't know what the population is like all over the world.  I'm glad your Sister and Brother were able to find a child to love.  I AM sorry they had to go around the freekin' planet to do so.  That's just stupid.  And it's ALSO (okay, imo) EXTREMELY stupid that a white person can't raise a baby of a different race.  Isn't that discrimination AND denying a child a happy home??  AAaaaaaaarg!

[Seamus]

wow thanks seamus

this also brings more questions

is it wrong for couple to decide to never have sex??
<The sexual act - or, the marital act or one-flesh union - is a physical expression of a couple's marriage commitment. In a very real sense, when a couple engages in one-flesh union, they are renewing their wedding vows, an essential component of which is to accept children lovingly from God (cf.
Gen. 1:28, 2:24; Luke 1:38).>

is the willingness to not renew their marriage vows.

this question maybe too involve to get an answer.

I do notice couple who decide not have children get harassed abit.
of course every parent says they don`t harass
but on this subject they hardly can be called civil.
the most common phrased spoken is selfish

Well, as I'm not a self proclaimed pro-lifer OR pro-choicer, and I'm rather agnostic...  All I can say about NOT having children as being selfish is... Overpopulation Much???

Seems to me it's almost more selfish to HAVE children when there are thousands who are being born that are either being put in the system or SHOULD be.  We have plenty already...

Well, I can provide an example of the opposite. My wife and I have five children and, as you know, we recently adopted a little girl form Ethiopia. Many in my wife's side of the family called it "selfish" and refused to come to a dinner we had to introduce her to the rest of the family and it has stirred quite alot of angst for sure. There is no communication now between us and those parts of the extended family...sigh.

No, Professor, I didn't know.  Congratulations on the new girl! Can you tell me how they come to calling it selfish?  Have they said what their thinking is?  As far as I can tell you've not only done a WONDERFUL thing for this girl, but a wonderful thing for your family as well.  Another child being raised in the "Professor" line.  I would like to understand how it can be seen as selfish?

[Seamus]

There is no communication now between us and those parts of the extended family...sigh.


..and if there were communication between "you and parts of the extended familia", would it be truly worth your time? Values are at such odds here that it seems to me that you haven't lost much. Shame on those who chose to cut off communicating because of their OWN selfish act. To shun or ignore family because of a choice to raise a human being?....sigh, indeed. I would sigh because they "don't get it", Professor.
Good for you and your wife.
The world needs more like you.

Seconded!

[The_Professor]

wow thanks seamus

this also brings more questions

is it wrong for couple to decide to never have sex??
<The sexual act - or, the marital act or one-flesh union - is a physical expression of a couple's marriage commitment. In a very real sense, when a couple engages in one-flesh union, they are renewing their wedding vows, an essential component of which is to accept children lovingly from God (cf.
Gen. 1:28, 2:24; Luke 1:38).>

is the willingness to not renew their marriage vows.

this question maybe too involve to get an answer.

I do notice couple who decide not have children get harassed abit.
of course every parent says they don`t harass
but on this subject they hardly can be called civil.
the most common phrased spoken is selfish

Well, as I'm not a self proclaimed pro-lifer OR pro-choicer, and I'm rather agnostic...  All I can say about NOT having children as being selfish is... Overpopulation Much???

Seems to me it's almost more selfish to HAVE children when there are thousands who are being born that are either being put in the system or SHOULD be.  We have plenty already...

Well, I can provide an example of the opposite. My wife and I have five children and, as you know, we recently adopted a little girl form Ethiopia. Many in my wife's side of the family called it "selfish" and refused to come to a dinner we had to introduce her to the rest of the family and it has stirred quite alot of angst for sure. There is no communication now between us and those parts of the extended family...sigh.

No, Professor, I didn't know.  Congratulations on the new girl! Can you tell me how they come to calling it selfish?  Have they said what their thinking is?  As far as I can tell you've not only done a WONDERFUL thing for this girl, but a wonderful thing for your family as well.  Another child being raised in the "Professor" line.  I would like to understand how it can be seen as selfish?

They see it as my wife and I somehow needing more love and are bored and so we chose to adopt....Really strange logic to my way of thinking. But, apparently that is the line. They say we shouldn't have done it at our age. We should just wait for grandchildren. Well, we chose differently. With the holidays coming up, it should prove interesting, to say the least.

[Stray Pooch]

Let me add the LDS perspective to this question.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints generally opposes abortion and birth control but for different reasons.  Abortion - and SOME forms of birtth control - actually terminate a life that has begun (however tenuously).  We object to abortion on those grounds, but we do recognize that in cases of rape, incest or danger to the mother abortion may be an option.

Birth control is considered a sin, but for a different reason.  We have no problem with the idea of sex "fer fun."   We do, however, believe that the Lord has commanded us to "be fruitful and multiply."  We also believe - uncommon in the Christian world - in the idea of a "pre-existence."  We believe that there are babies up there just waiting to be born.   Our duty is to bring them to this world.  The whole reason we exist on this earth is to have families.  Consequently, birth control solely for the purpose of not having children is considered a sin of ommission.  The church, in its "Proclamation on the Family" does leave wiggle room for responsible family planning, but permanent sterilization would normally only be considered appropriate in case of medical necessity.   

Part of the reason for the ambiguity on the issue of birth control is that methods - and therfore situations - differ.  For example, some faiths have no problem with the "rhythm method" since there is no life potentially created.  (Of course we all know what they call people who use the rhythm method - parents!)   Under our philosophy, that issue is moot.  Birth control even under non-abortive circumstances is discouraged.  But something like a "morning after" pill or certain IUD devices are intended to keep a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall.  That means a potential life is ended.  So condoms, yes - if necessary - but IUDs, no.

Incidentally, in case anyone wonders, nobody is going to get excommunicated from the LDS church simply for using birth control.  Like many things, it is a matter of personal choice, but it is discouraged.  Even unwarranted abortion is amenable to forgiveness - though it is considered among the most serious offenses against God. 

[Religious Dick]

Well, as I'm not a self proclaimed pro-lifer OR pro-choicer, and I'm rather agnostic...  All I can say about NOT having children as being selfish is... Overpopulation Much???

Seems to me it's almost more selfish to HAVE children when there are thousands who are being born that are either being put in the system or SHOULD be.  We have plenty already...

Small problem. Overpopulation is currently not a problem in any nation that composes what was once known as Christiandom. The opposite is.

Now, religion is not a topic of particular interest to me, and in general I frown on government interjecting itself into it's citizen's reproductive choices.

Still, you have to ask - what the hell is wrong with a culture that seems bound and determined to cut it's own throat?

The problem isn't that abortion is legal. The problem is a population that's so eager to take advantage of the fact.

[Stray Pooch]

Now, religion is not a topic of particular

Seems to me that with your screenname that makes as much sense as saying I don't care much for pooches!  lol.

The problem isn't that abortion is legal. The problem is a population that's so eager to take advantage of the fact.

Well said.