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Messages - Henny

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61
3DHS / Re: Jordan Bids to Join Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) Bloc
« on: May 13, 2011, 01:32:10 AM »
Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 12, 2011, 10:49:14 AM
Israel has tried everything except serious negotiations. They have never tried land for peace. The Sinai and Gaza were never part of Israel, not even in the time of King David.

Netanyahu is typical of the Israeli position: he says he is for a two-state solution, but every time they get close, then in a "totally unrelated incident" Israelis grab off some more land or build some more buildings for Jews and the talks are ended, and Israel grabs some more land and spends several millions more in propaganda to convince simpletons in the US that it is really really trying, but those Arabs are crazy. This has been the pattern for decades.

For Jordan and Egypt to join with other Arab states in any alliance will result in more pressure put on Israel to actually negotiate. Fatah in the West Bank has ended the intifada and started to stress economic development. It is time for Palestine to become a country.

Actually, Rabin and King Hussein negotiated seriously. Of course, then Rabin was assassinated by an extremist Israeli, so it was rather short lived.

Interesting to note, another perspective on the GCC entry that I am hearing is that the US pressured the Gulf into helping - because it would probably keep Jordan from going the way of Egypt, Syria, Yemen Tunisia... etc. And that definitely *is* in Israel's interest, even if it ends up resulting in more diplomatic pressure.

So we're "bought" here - and "sold!!" I say! Jordanians never smile and I'm seeing a lot of smiling when someone mentions GCC. The economic relief would be felt from the top to the bottom.

OTOH, I just signed a $40k car loan for a Kia Sportage. Which will devalue to closer to the actual price for such a car, so I am stuck with the damn thing.

62
3DHS / Re: Jordan Bids to Join Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) Bloc
« on: May 12, 2011, 05:19:04 AM »
Quote from: sirs on May 12, 2011, 04:25:47 AM
Quote from: Henny on May 12, 2011, 01:45:06 AM
Quote from: BT on May 12, 2011, 01:36:01 AM
Is the two state option with existing borders viable on the street?

No way - never. That's the one caveat to any peace talks - back to the pre-1967 borders.

Israel already tried the land for the "promise of peace" approach.  I don't think they're willing to take that gamble again.  I could be wrong though

No, Israel has never seriously tried the land for peace approach - it was always with chunks of land excluded, citing their need for secure borders.

(I am not trying to get into any arguments about whose right, whose wrong, who supports Israel and who doesn't - just the plain facts and my opinion on "Arab Street." And the whole GCC thing and all of the excitement.  ;D)

63
3DHS / Re: Jordan Bids to Join Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) Bloc
« on: May 12, 2011, 03:50:02 AM »
Quote from: BT on May 12, 2011, 03:03:29 AM
Why is that important?

Because it is their land, and it is now illegally occupied.

BTW, I'm talking about the Arab street here... not realities. Reality is that the release of the classified Palestine papers revealed that what is now being negotiated for is 22% of the pre-1967 land. At the same time, street opinion is indeed important, because the people have the power to make or break any treaty, as anywhere.

64
3DHS / Re: Jordan Bids to Join Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) Bloc
« on: May 12, 2011, 01:45:06 AM »
Quote from: BT on May 12, 2011, 01:36:01 AM
Is the two state option with existing borders viable on the street?

No way - never. That's the one caveat to any peace talks - back to the pre-1967 borders.

65
3DHS / Re: Jordan Bids to Join Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) Bloc
« on: May 12, 2011, 01:33:12 AM »
Quote from: BT on May 12, 2011, 01:21:58 AM
How will this affect Jordans existing treaties with Israel?

No idea yet. I imagine that it won't affect the treaties per se, but that Jordan will be in a better position to more vehemently oppose illegal settlement building.

66
3DHS / Jordan Bids to Join Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) Bloc
« on: May 12, 2011, 01:04:02 AM »
Some of the biggest news in the region - Jordan has formally made a bid to join the GCC (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cooperation_Council_for_the_Arab_States_of_the_Gulf). The application is basically considered a formality, and rapid acceptance is anticipated.

Morocco has just been accepted as well.

This is, from the perspective of a person living here, the best news I've heard in ages. The economic benefits will be vast, as with GCC membership laborers can move freely (without residency permits and visas) between the countries. Oil prices in Jordan will certainly go down. From my perspective, just being able to enter Saudi without a month-long wait for a visa that I might not get anyway is tremendous - business has been seriously hampered by the restrictions there. I have 2 passports, so Saudi was my only problem, but my Jordanian colleagues, for example, also had to apply for advance visas for UAE, Qatar and Kuwait and were often rejected.

Reflecting the Jordanian optimism, the Amman Stock exchange trading value was JD11.9 million on Tuesday; on Wednesday it more than doubled to JD25.7 million.

But that's all the optimism. Now think about it from a Western perspective. If the GCC is bringing in other non-Gulf Arab countries to stem the revolts and relieve the economic burdens of the people that is driving unrest, what does that mean for the rest of the world?

For one thing, as I understand, it will also be a military union.

For another, countries like Jordan which are supported by the U.S., in exchange for playing nice with Israel, aren't going to be so desperate for American money.

On the other hand, it is considered to be a union to form a strong alliance against the Iranian threat in the region, which is good for everyone in the world but Iran.

Thoughts?

67
3DHS / Re: Bin Laden Dead!
« on: May 04, 2011, 01:53:57 AM »
Quote from: sirs on May 04, 2011, 01:32:13 AM
And you'll notice, I'm not one of them.

Indeed. I meant in the world, generally - not the group.  ;D

68
3DHS / Re: Bin Laden Dead!
« on: May 04, 2011, 01:24:16 AM »
Quote from: sirs on May 04, 2011, 12:59:47 AM
100% agreed...

...and if this had happened under's Bush's watch, I'd opine there'd be a far different "conclusion", from the same folks currently praising Obama right now     ;)

Sirs, in all fairness, plenty on the right are coming to those far different conclusions about Obama and what happened here. Typical and expected partisan tit-for-tat.

69
3DHS / Re: Bin Laden Dead!
« on: May 04, 2011, 12:51:20 AM »
Quote from: Christians4LessGvt on May 03, 2011, 02:30:54 PM
Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 03, 2011, 12:56:29 PM
Burning bodies and leaving them for the vultures are practices of Hindis and Farsis, both of whom are infidels.

Isn't everyone thats not a Muzzie an infidel?

No - only to the fundamentalist. For mainstream, infidels are people who aren't either Muslim, Christian or Jew ("People of the Book").

70
3DHS / Re: Bin Laden Dead!
« on: May 04, 2011, 12:49:18 AM »
Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 03, 2011, 12:56:29 PM
All the information about this mission comes from the people who carried it out. So all the news comes from them as well.
I fail to see why they should lie about something like this. If they did, the truth would come out eventually.

If you are going to say that nothing that the news reports is true, then why even believe that the whole story was false?

It seems logical to me to have a burial at sea, particularly if the Saudis would not take OBL.

As I understand it, burial in the ground and burial at sea are the only two options given in the Koran, or at least given by custom.

Burning bodies and leaving them for the vultures are practices of Hindis and Farsis, both of whom are infidels.

I don't think they're lying. But I am shocked by the attitudes of people who do. They say he's been dead for years... but come on! What president would let this kind of political capital pass? If it happened during Bush's term, he would have announced it with pride and rightly so. That alone, IMO, deflates the whole conspiracy thing.

71
3DHS / Re: Bin Laden Dead!
« on: May 03, 2011, 12:50:55 PM »
Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 03, 2011, 10:59:00 AM
So if it were my call, I would have handed the body over to a friendly Muslim country - preferably Saudi - to bury the body in secrecy and then assure the Muslim world that it was handled with proper respect.

============================
According to the news, they did offer the body to the Saudis,and they did not want it.

In that case, I don't know what other country could take the responsibility and not be accused of messing it up. So burial at sea was the only viable choice.

72
3DHS / Re: Bin Laden Dead!
« on: May 03, 2011, 10:23:03 AM »
Quote from: Christians4LessGvt on May 03, 2011, 10:08:17 AM
hey Henny....what is your perspective on the quick burial at sea?

whats the vibe on the street in the arab world...or does it even really matter?

do you think it was best from Obama's point of view to bring a quick closure?

sure it fuels conspiracy but wouldn't a big state funeral somewhere had been worse?

what are your thoughts on the quick burial at sea?

and what if anything would you have done differently concerning body disposal?
The vibe on the Arab street is complete denial and disbelief, people pissed off because news they consider much more important (Syria, Yemen, Libya) is being ignored even on Jazeera Arabic station. And there are some people who are mourning, sorry to say.

I personally am uncomfortable with it, although I consent that the idea that his burial place becoming a shrine was a good reason to do it. Although it is important to note that Sunni Muslims do not make saints of their dead or revere them - it would be very much a Shia thing.

The thing is, all of us are waiting for some proof. A picture that isn't doctored. Something. Even though I 100% believe it happened, I still want to see something. I think the whole world does. Burial at sea, regardless of the good reasons behind it, fueled the idea that it was faked.

Overwhelmingly, too, Muslim scholars are coming out and saying that while a burial at sea is permissable under extraordinary circumstances, this was not one of those circumstances. A Muslim should be buried with their head point to Mecca.

So if it were my call, I would have handed the body over to a friendly Muslim country - preferably Saudi - to bury the body in secrecy and then assure the Muslim world that it was handled with proper respect.

73
3DHS / Re: Bin Laden Dead!
« on: May 03, 2011, 09:02:00 AM »
40 Incredibly Stupid Facebook Reactions to Osama's Death
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/40-incredibly-dumb-facebook-reactions-to-osama-bin

My personal fav: "I bet Osama is pissed he came out of hiding to watch the Royal Wedding."

74
3DHS / Re: Bin Laden Dead!
« on: May 03, 2011, 05:27:43 AM »
Quote from: sirs on May 03, 2011, 01:39:06 AM
see, that's why I needed to ask you, personally about this.  I had no idea the idea behind the high walls of affluent neighborhoods helping to shelter the women, and families, away from any view, outside of invited guests.  Thanks    8)

Here's a diagram of the compound:


75
3DHS / Re: Bin Laden Dead!
« on: May 03, 2011, 12:53:03 AM »
Quote from: sirs on May 02, 2011, 01:55:57 PM
Miss Henny, I didn't receive any phone calls or e-mailings, but I share the concern that prompted them.  The snake's head has been cut off.  At least the biggest head.  It's going to flail now, try to demonstrate that they are "just fine".  I fear several small terrorist acts will be attempted, with possible death as a result of their acts.  Likely not massive in any way, but AlQeada has been dealt a huge PR & operations blow.  They're gonna want to strike.  Please watch over yourself and your loved ones.  Keep a vigilant eye

Thanks Sirs, and I will.

Quote from: sirs on May 02, 2011, 01:55:57 PM
Maybe you can answer this, with some experience to the region.  If we have been hunting Bin Laden all this time, him fleeing Afghanistan into Pakistan, and we supposedly have been working with the Pakistani Government on trying to locate his hole in the side of a mountain, how is it he's killed within this apparent massive complex/mansion, deep in the heart of Islamabad, downtown central Pakistan?  Was their Government that blinded to his whereabouts.........or that helpful to him?

I think it is very possible that they were unaware. First, as I understand there is no way to effectively secure the entire border region, so coming through the mountainous route covered/disguised was probably no problem at all.

Then, in the neighborhood - the houses of the affluent, whether Pakistan or Jordan or Saudi or Iran are always completely walled off. The reason being so the women can work/relax in their gardens uncovered. If they have a pool, the women can swim. Etc. We have neighbors living like that - they live in fortresses. What I saw of the pictures of this house, it was the same idea. Then, on top of that, there will be guest areas of the house where guests can sit and socialize... and then there are family areas where uncovered women can hang out unseen. No guest will ever enter those areas. So, IMO, it is entirely reasonable to think that he could have been hanging out there and no one ever knew. Although I would suspect that a fairly large group had to have been in on it. But the government? Not necessarily.

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