Author Topic: High Crimes....  (Read 1807 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Lanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
High Crimes....
« on: May 01, 2007, 10:00:00 PM »

Phil Worden

Has Bush committed impeachable acts?
By BDN Staff
Monday, April 30, 2007 - Bangor Daily News

As an attorney I often get asked if I think President Bush has committed any impeachable "high crimes or misdemeanors." The Constitution gives the power to remove the President to the Congress, not the judiciary, so the question is more political than legal. The legalistic language about "high crimes and misdemeanors" and a "trial" in the Senate reminds Congress that ours is not a parliamentary system; Congress cannot remove a president with a mere "no confidence" vote. In terms of whether President Bush has committed any offenses that could justify impeachment, consider the following:

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, who served as the chief prosecutor of the major Nazi war criminals, called starting a war without cause the "supreme war crime" because all other war crimes flow from it. Under the United Nations Charter, which is a binding international treaty ratified by the United States, it is illegal to attack another nation except: 1) when authorized by the Security Council; or 2) when necessary for self-defense and then only for as long as necessary to get the matter to the Security Council.

The Security Council unanimously passed Resolution 1441 that found Iraq in material breach of prior resolutions and warned of "severe consequences" if Iraq didn’t conform. But that resolution also explicitly stated that the Security Council remained seized of the issue and the United States assured the other members that Resolution 1441 did not authorize it to attack Iraq; the U.S. would have to return to the Security Council for another resolution before it could attack Iraq. In early 2003, the United States did return to the Security Council with a resolution authorizing an attack on Iraq. When it became clear that the proposed resolution could not muster a majority, the United States withdrew the resolution and attacked Iraq anyway. There is no crime more serious than illegally starting a war.

In garnering support for his invasion of Iraq, President Bush selectively cherry-picked the advice and intelligence that supported the end result he wanted to achieve. Many career officers at the CIA and the Pentagon quit when their reservations about the war were ignored. President Bush misled Congress when he pretended he had solid intelligence that Iraq had the ability and desire to attack America.

President Bush has shown a consistent hostility to civil rights. Tens of thousands were swept up in immigration raids after the Bush administration announced it intended to use immigration laws against suspect populations not for immigration purposes but as part of its "War on Terror." It claimed a right to seize U.S. citizens on U.S. soil and to hold them indefinitely without charges, a trial, an attorney or even the right to remain silent. It not only supported the USA PATRIOT Act but, according to the inspector general, systematically abused it after it became law.

In the late 1970s, Congress established a secret court to issue search warrants in foreign intelligence cases. Congress diluted the definition of "probable cause" in foreign intelligence cases to make these warrants easy to get. President Bush, however, authorized the National Security Agency to seize telephone records without getting warrants from the foreign intelligence court. The NSA had the technology to monitor all phones calls and did not want to identify the particular records to be seized as is done in search warrants. The idea was to seize all phone records and then "data mine" them to see if any of them contained foreign intelligence information. This invasion of privacy not only circumvented the statute establishing the foreign intelligence court but the particularity requirement of the Fourth Amendment as well. The Fourth Amendment was designed to prohibit the British type of "general warrant" that authorized a particular person to search or seize anything he wants.

Although the Bush administration uses the language of war, such as "War on Terrorism," it insisted that the prisoners captured in Afghanistan were not entitled to the protections of the Geneva Conventions because they did not wear uniforms. President Bush’s attorney called the Geneva Conventions "quaint." However, the same administration claimed a right to detain these prisoners indefinitely without any kind of hearing on the grounds that prisoners of war can be detained without hearing until the war ends. President Bush uses the international law of warfare selectively, saying it applies when it suits his purposes but does not apply when it does not suit his purposes.

Both international and U.S. law condemn torture. President Bush’s administration has redefined torture to only include serious physical injury that can lead to death and then used that narrowed definition to authorize "water boarding," sensory deprivation, sleep denial, and other aggressive interrogation techniques commonly understood to be torture. In response, Congress passed a statute outlawing inhumane treatment of prisoners. When he signed that statute into law, President Bush issued a separate "signing statement," saying that he reserved the right to use torture if he thought it was necessary for national security.

President Bush has authorized the use of depleted uranium shells in Iraq, which will create health hazards there for decades to come. He authorized the use of phosphorus bombs against Fallujah, a civilian target. While it’s true that phosphorus bombs burn people, their primary purpose is to suck oxygen out of the air so people hiding in buildings suffocate. "Daisy cutter" bombs create a concussion that makes the eye balls and ear drums of people hiding in bunkers explode.

My conclusion: It is the political will to impeach, not the legal grounds, that we lack.

Phil Worden lives in Tremont, Maine. E-mail: pworden@adelphia.net, or write PO Box 1009, Northeast Harbor, ME 04662

  http://bangordailynews.com/news/t/viewpoints.aspx?articleid=149269&zoneid=35
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

domer

  • Guest
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2007, 10:50:57 PM »
Especially given the atmosphere following 9-11, which, admittedly, Bush helped create but which, undeniably, he got caught up in like everyone else, his excesses did not seem to be excesses at the time -- in legal jargon, the necessary mens rea was lacking -- and he ran a gauntlet near the edge of lawfulness, but seemingly to the rousing cheers of a majority for quite some time, but a gauntlet that was run nonetheless in public view, mostly, starting with what some insist on calling a "lie": his stubborn assertion of WMD until all hope for that theory dissolved. (Why would a man lie about a matter so subject to verification?) Iraq is a fucking mess, granted, and Bush is the man in the hot seat (with his entourage). But moving to impeach him does not square, to my mind, with the terrible frights and novel challenges we faced, all under the leadership of a very flawed man (but not a pariah): a man at once stupid and stubborn and fatally wed to true belief.

Lanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2007, 11:24:46 PM »
I appreciate your response.

The times were scary and different and he did it out in front of God and everyone, so he needs to be cut some slack.  And we went along with those excesses that didn't seem so excessive at the time, so we're all guilty.

Is that kind of what you're saying?
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

terra

  • Guest
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2007, 12:03:54 AM »
Especially given the atmosphere following 9-11, which, admittedly, Bush helped create but which, undeniably, he got caught up in like everyone else, his excesses did not seem to be excesses at the time -- in legal jargon, the necessary mens rea was lacking -- and he ran a gauntlet near the edge of lawfulness, but seemingly to the rousing cheers of a majority for quite some time, but a gauntlet that was run nonetheless in public view, mostly, starting with what some insist on calling a "lie": his stubborn assertion of WMD until all hope for that theory dissolved. (Why would a man lie about a matter so subject to verification?) Iraq is a fucking mess, granted, and Bush is the man in the hot seat (with his entourage). But moving to impeach him does not square, to my mind, with the terrible frights and novel challenges we faced, all under the leadership of a very flawed man (but not a pariah): a man at once stupid and stubborn and fatally wed to true belief.

Bush is a pariah...specially to his own party...
Bush insists that he made an oath to protect the people...he did not. He made an oath to proect the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution protects us.

He has broken each and every law, If he can not be impeached for that, he needs to be booted out on his flabby ass...and Cheney and his five deferments with him, for Stupidity and being a waste of air. The two of them aren't worth a bucket of spit.

Domer, when the constitution was writen and signed there was a war going on. Each signer had money on their heads...there were enemies everywhere....this country was up against an army that was the stongest on Earth. But still built into our laws were rights...habeas corbus was not left in the old country...and in the constitution all men were to be treated with justice.

This president is a lier, a coward and a murderer. He not only needs impeached but shot at dawn...that still will not make the deaths, lost limbs, lost eye sight , scrambled brains , a ruined nation with the thousands of murdered people by that hypocriticle pro life creep. Too many make exuses of that idiot. Bush has not tried to be the president, he is the republican leader, he is king but he has not done anything to be President.

Next time some rethug becomes president, I hope they at least know what being President and an American means. This mistake of nature we have now certainly hase never read the Constitution.


Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2007, 12:12:21 AM »
Domer, when the constitution was writen and signed there was a war going on. Each signer had money on their heads...there were enemies everywhere....this country was up against an army that was the stongest on Earth. But still built into our laws were rights...habeas corbus was not left in the old country...and in the constitution all men were to be treated with justice.

What war was the US involved in in 1787? I think the Russo-Turkish War was going on, and the Netherlands was going through a civil war, but I don't seem to remember the US being involved in either of those.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2007, 12:46:58 AM »
Bring it on......not as some cockamamie attempt to get Bush to change policy, ala what the neanderthal Murtha was trying to play, but let's see actual articles, actual impeachable offenses, and then watch how the American Public responds to that
« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 10:40:57 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2007, 10:28:31 AM »
And we went along with those excesses that didn't seem so excessive at the time, so we're all guilty.

===========================
An interesting theory this, but we can't all be guilty, because we didn't all 'go along'. How would a dissenting citizen prevent the Army from invading Iraq? How could he prevent funds being paid to this unworthy cause?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2007, 12:01:28 PM »
<<And we went along with those excesses that didn't seem so excessive at the time, so we're all guilty.>>

That's a theory of collective guilt that sounds good because it's charitable, but it just cannot be applied practically.  On some level, every American is guilty to the extent that he or she didn't do everything within their power to stop Bush's crimes.  But just think for a moment if the same standard were applied to Nazi Germany.  Or even to Cho, to the people who bullied him in middle school, to the family that didn't reach out enough, to the mental health workers who failed to realize the dimensions of the problem. 

If everybody's guilty, then nobody's guilty.

There has to be a principle of individual guilt and individual accountability.  While there is undoubtedly some guilt attached to a citizen who pays his taxes and does nothing to obstruct their employment in wholesale murder, there is infinitely more guilt on the man who actually decides and orders the murders to begin.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2007, 12:10:22 PM »
"... there is infinitely more guilt on the man who actually decides and orders the murders to begin."



Unless he isn't an American , this rule cannot be applied to administrations in North Korea ,Iran, Iraq .

domer

  • Guest
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2007, 04:35:25 PM »
Some of the matters mentioned in the article Lanya presented, such as depleted uranium and phosphorous weapons, I know next to nothing about. Practices such as that (and there may be others) appear to present instances where brightline rules can be applied: either their use (if it happened) is proscribed, or it isn't. To my understanding, the administration, excepting aberrations like Haditha and Abu Ghraib, staunchly maintains the legitimacy of their strategy and tactics. Indeed, it is more likely than not that activities at the operational level complained of in the article were and are properly the province of down-chain officers. As to the war's initiation and brutal, grinding course of execution, the matter lies in the realm of negligence or recklessness, states of mind inadequate as predicates to a war crime, I suggest. In my view, based on the full gestalt as I experienced it and analyzed it, there was folly aplenty, compounded by the most aggravating stubbornness, but not ill-meaning within the contemplation of the concept of war crimes.


Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2007, 09:40:42 PM »
<<Unless he isn't an American , this rule [that the chief executive who orders the murders is infinitely more guilty than the passive citizenry who allow them to take place] cannot be applied to administrations in North Korea ,Iran, Iraq . >>

I'm a bit thrown by what is effectively a triple negative but what I meant to say that Bush is more guilty than the average U.S. citizen and Saddam is more guilty than the average Iraqi citizen and the Ayatollahs more guilty than the average Iranian, etc.  I'm not sure if you took this as my meaning or not.

However, I guess in general, the relative guilt of the average citizen would diminish in direct proportion to their lack of freedom to affect the actions of their government.  On that theory, the average U.S. citizen is more responsible for the crimes of his or her government than the average citizen of a dictatorship is for the crimes of his or her government.  This in fact, taken to an extreme, was the theoretical justification behind Osama bin Laden's attack on the WTC, although of course I wouldn't take it anywhere near as far as he did.  That was really drastic, but there's a kernel of truth to the idea.  Unfortunately, it was kind of hard to see how the restaurant workers in Windows on the World were in any way responsible for U.S. Middle East policies.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: High Crimes....
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2007, 12:25:59 AM »
<<Unless he isn't an American , this rule [that the chief executive who orders the murders is infinitely more guilty than the passive citizenry who allow them to take place] cannot be applied to administrations in North Korea ,Iran, Iraq . >>

I'm a bit thrown by what is effectively a triple negative but what I meant to say that Bush is more guilty than the average U.S. citizen and Saddam is more guilty than the average Iraqi citizen and the Ayatollahs more guilty than the average Iranian, etc.  I'm not sure if you took this as my meaning or not.

However, I guess in general, the relative guilt of the average citizen would diminish in direct proportion to their lack of freedom to affect the actions of their government.  On that theory, the average U.S. citizen is more responsible for the crimes of his or her government than the average citizen of a dictatorship is for the crimes of his or her government.  This in fact, taken to an extreme, was the theoretical justification behind Osama bin Laden's attack on the WTC, although of course I wouldn't take it anywhere near as far as he did.  That was really drastic, but there's a kernel of truth to the idea.  Unfortunately, it was kind of hard to see how the restaurant workers in Windows on the World were in any way responsible for U.S. Middle East policies.


The point of the terrorism is to make an impression on the people and discourage them , if we were the Soviet Union or Cuba there would be no point in teroristic attacks .

I do prefer being in a free counry , in spite of the increased reponsibility , and even if it makes every one of us a good target to the force of evil.