DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Kramer on October 12, 2011, 07:39:26 PM
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Watch and see. Obama has too big an ego to be challenged by Iran and be presidential. He will let his emotions and immaturity get the best of him. Plus, the people that surround him are pretty much the same insecure personality type as Obama.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/us/iran-sees-terror-plot-accusation-as-diversion-from-wall-street-protests.html?_r=2&hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/us/iran-sees-terror-plot-accusation-as-diversion-from-wall-street-protests.html?_r=2&hp)
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The Iranians responsible might be a small faction of a fractured government .
Lets have examination of the situation .
Iran actually has a professional assasin force of its own that would have never fallen for this trap.
But there are in those circles of power some wealthy eddys with no access to those pros.
I want to watch , BHO might need to condenm but allowing the Iranians to destroy each other might work on this one.
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The Iranians responsible might be a small faction of a fractured government .
Lets have examination of the situation .
Iran actually has a professional assasin force of its own that would have never fallen for this trap.
But there are in those circles of power some wealthy eddys with no access to those pros.
I want to watch , BHO might need to condenm but allowing the Iranians to destroy each other might work on this one.
Then again maybe Iran has a point. I wouldn't put this past Obama and Eric Holder to make this crap up to deflect away from the poor economy and lousy poll numbers.
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The Iranians responsible might be a small faction of a fractured government .
Lets have examination of the situation .
Iran actually has a professional assasin force of its own that would have never fallen for this trap.
But there are in those circles of power some wealthy eddys with no access to those pros.
I want to watch , BHO might need to condenm but allowing the Iranians to destroy each other might work on this one.
Then again maybe Iran has a point. I wouldn't put this past Obama and Eric Holder to make this crap up to deflect away from the poor economy and lousy poll numbers.
That is a far reach.
It is like what the Iranians are saying is the truth, a certain sign that it is not.
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The Iranians responsible might be a small faction of a fractured government .
Lets have examination of the situation .
Iran actually has a professional assasin force of its own that would have never fallen for this trap.
But there are in those circles of power some wealthy eddys with no access to those pros.
I want to watch , BHO might need to condenm but allowing the Iranians to destroy each other might work on this one.
Then again maybe Iran has a point. I wouldn't put this past Obama and Eric Holder to make this crap up to deflect away from the poor economy and lousy poll numbers.
That is a far reach.
It is like what the Iranians are saying is the truth, a certain sign that it is not.
I've seen several case of the administration using the Justice department for political reasons. Why would they not do it now in this case? Don't you think Obama is getting a bit desperate?
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not even a hint of a motive. sounds like BS to me, but not clear why they choose this particular point in time to make up such BS. I do not believe that it's to deflect the OWS story, simply because I don't think the story's big enough for that - - nobody gives a shit about failed assassination plots. especially against foreigners.
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nobody gives a shit about failed assassination plots. especially against foreigners.
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I am far more against the Saudi ambassador not being assassinated because he is an ambassador than because he is a Saudi. Odds are he is some candy-assed relative of the Saud family. But we can't have diplomats being assassinated anywhere, because everyine needs ambassadors and diplomats. Without them we have chaos and wars.
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I understand that it's important to prevent the assassination of diplomats anywhere and your point is a valid one. "Nobody gives a shit" was a hyperbolic expression of the idea that the (hypothetically) fake assassination plot would not deflect ENOUGH public attention away from Occupy Wall Street! Rightly or wrongly, there wouldn't be enough public interest in such a story to serve the purpose that it was invented for. IMHO.
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I agree with you, MT.
Someday, we will discover all the multitude of assassination plots against President Obama and others that have occurred since he took office.
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It'll be interesting to see if there were more assassination plots aimed by Obama against others or more plots aimed by others against Obama. I'm also wondering how many volumes it'll take for the full compilation.
I don't know if you saw the old Get Smart episode where just as the assassin pulls his gun and is about to blow away the intended target, a voice tells the assassin to freeze because he (the assassin) is covered; then someone else tells the guy covering the assassin to freeze because he is covered; and so on until there is a chain of guys each with his gun trained on a shooter and each with a gun pointed at him. I think this was in the lobby of a cheap hotel and the last bunch of guys are standing on a stairway leading down into the lobby. Anyway, at this point, Max and his boss, deeply engaged in conversation and totally unaware of all these guys, walk out of the hotel, at which point all hell breaks loose behind them and everyone shoots everyone.
I thought it was funny, but little did I realize it was prophetic as well.
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The accused in this plot was tossing around too much money to just be a hobbyist, but showing too much naivete to be a well connected assasination broker.
The best speculation I have seen yet is that the Iranian government is divided and factious.
There may be a faction grown welthy from drug deals , but not grown wise. These guys might be mad at the Saudis for a drug crackdown and be targeting the Isrelis too on general principal.
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not even a hint of a motive. sounds like BS to me, but not clear why they choose this particular point in time to make up such BS. I do not believe that it's to deflect the OWS story, simply because I don't think the story's big enough for that - - nobody gives a shit about failed assassination plots. especially against foreigners.
yeah but you ned to get into the mind of criminals then you will understand.
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nobody gives a shit about failed assassination plots. especially against foreigners.
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I am far more against the Saudi ambassador not being assassinated because he is an ambassador than because he is a Saudi. Odds are he is some candy-assed relative of the Saud family. But we can't have diplomats being assassinated anywhere, because everyine needs ambassadors and diplomats. Without them we have chaos and wars.
Seems like Obama likes chaos and wars. He responsible for thousands of deaths in Afghanistan and encourages the Anarchists. He's friends with Bill Ayers too.
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<<yeah but you ned to get into the mind of criminals then you will understand.>>
You're right. Getting into the mind of criminals could explain the motive for the assassination plot if it's a real plot OR the motive for faking the assassination plot if it's a fake plot. As far as I'm concerned, Obama's just another assassin himself, no more and no less criminal than any Iranian or Mexican hit team.
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We know that Iran's government is fractured and divided. Ahmedinejad is as close to Kholmeninei as can probably be elected, but he does not have the influence to govern the country in any orderly fashion. The economy is a wreck, and of course, many of the ayatollahs are simply corrupt or have placed corrupt relatives and cronies in power.
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Looks like the U.S. government case against Iran is falling apart as we speak.
http://news.antiwar.com/2011/10/12/no-direct-evidence-of-iranian-government-complicity-in-arbabsiar-plot/ (http://news.antiwar.com/2011/10/12/no-direct-evidence-of-iranian-government-complicity-in-arbabsiar-plot/)
Only question now is who this latest Big Lie was really aimed at? Was it part of a buildup of a US campaign for a war against Iran? Or was it aimed more specifically at the Saudis, hoping to get them to take a swing at Iran, something the US is too cowardly or too broke to attempt on its own?
And what was the strategy behind uttering the lie in the first place, only to retract it almost as soon as it was out? Maybe it's not just the Iranian government that is fractured and split into factions.
Conflicts between the Iranian and the US governments always seem win-win to me: the biggest bunch of corrrupt, evil bastards on the face of the earth up against the second biggest bunch of corrupt, evil bastards on the face of the earth. Too bad they can't solve their differences in a Battle of the Champions, only without substitutes allowed. I bet Hillary would be the best man on the U.S. team. Michelle could not be allowed to take part because she's not part of the administration.
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<<yeah but you ned to get into the mind of criminals then you will understand.>>
You're right. Getting into the mind of criminals could explain the motive for the assassination plot if it's a real plot OR the motive for faking the assassination plot if it's a fake plot. As far as I'm concerned, Obama's just another assassin himself, no more and no less criminal than any Iranian or Mexican hit team.
What has Obama ever done that Mao didn't do even moreso?
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One thing that always happens , the price of oil on the spot market rises .
And so it has.
I wouldn't doubt that the Iranians raise fear now and then just because it pays.
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I wouldn't doubt that the Iranians raise fear now and then just because it pays.
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This is likely, but of course, it benefits the Saudis as well.
I think that after a week or so, it will be clearer what actually happened.
There is clearly division in Iran's government. Kholmenei is clearly more powerful than Ahmedinejad. The dispute is over the degree to which the Ayatollah dominates.
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At this point, even the US government has to admit it has no solid evidence of Iranian government involvement, so the real question is why would the US government or a faction therein make up this bullshit in the first place?
If you look at the actions of the individuals concerned, the actual alleged plotters, their motive could conceivably be as plane suggests, to hike the price of oil for a short-term gain, but it's a hell of a gamble. Anyone betting serious money on a temporary hike would have to plow a lot of money into oil and gamble that the assassination (a) would go through and (b) would produce the necessary bump. I don't even know how he'd do it - - is there a futures market in spot oil? I'm sure there's a way, but the guy would have to have balls of steel to get in there and lay down his bet in advance.
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The world supply of idiots is cosmic and inexaustable.
You find them at rvery rank and station of life.
After 9-11 why doubt that poorly thought out plans might be carried out?
What was Obama thinking would happen after four Aircraft strike American iconic buildings?
We would send him congradulations?
Just because this is a stupid plan does not mean it was not a serious try.
The price of oil BTW bumps up every time that bidders get nervous for the future, a mere threatening speech has been enough in the past.