DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on December 13, 2015, 03:08:51 PM
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(http://s29.postimg.org/9m7pc22sn/imageedit_3580_8813043832.jpg)
ANY QUESTIONS?
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how does this tie into the economic shift that is factored by the core business leaving detroit due to competition.
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Yeah right!
As son as the ungrateful people elected a Democratic administration, Packard and Hudson collapsed and the rest of the auto industry left for Mexico and Canada.
This is stupid and simplistic. Stop insulting our intelligence with this crap.
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Stop insulting our intelligence with this crap.
yes please stop insulting our IQ with your shit replies.
a few days a go it was the cop-out ignorance of dismissing the nonpartisan Pew Poll.
today I see it's pretending that shit results must mean it's out the control of Democrats
when their rule turns cities into shit.....it's not their fault....booo whooo
as if they cant adapt and prosper as other cities have when things change
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Everyone knows what happened to Detroit and it had not one fucking thing to do with mayors. The auto industry let town and took some jobs with them. Many more jobs were lost to automation. The people of Detroit were like the people of a mining town when the mine ran out of ore.
If anything, when people came to the conclusion that their Republican mayors did not give a shit about them, they elected Democrats. In the same way, had they not liked what the Democratic mayor did, they would have voted for someone else.
This is just simplistic garbage from the Hicktown Yokel collection. People have written books about Detroit in great detail. No one believe this lame shit but morons.
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The people of Detroit were like the people of a mining town when the mine ran out of ore.
This is typical of your loser "throw in the towel" thought process.
Instead of thinking along the lines of "we could reinvent ourselves"....
It's "Oh well the mine is out of ore so lets just sit around and bitch/moan about that for the next 30 years"!
Good grief that's when leadership is most important.
Even a democrat Mayor in Pittsburgh has helped transform Pittsburgh from rust to promise.
When the play you continue calling is clearly not working, it's time to call a different play.
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Detroit is not Pittsburgh.
Ford Motor spent a lot of money to revitalize the Downtown area of Detroit.
You don't even fucking know who the mayors of Detroit are. You just saw this crap on some ratbag rightwing website and posted it here.
If you want to blame someone for the demise of Detroit, blame Roger Smith, the CEO of GM.
I doubt that he was a Democrat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Smith_%28executive%29
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You don't even fucking know who the mayors of Detroit are.
You mean like this guy?
What a swell guy!
Is this "whiteys" fault too?
Former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, a Democrat, who In October of 2013 was sentenced to 28 years in
federal prison for his convictions on racketeering, bribery, extortion, mail/wire fraud, and tax crimes.
The federal Bureau of Prisons shows Kilpatrick's release date as August 1, 2037.
Mayor Kilpatrick had previously had pleaded guilty to charges of obstruction of justice in a criminal investigation in 2008.
(http://media2.wxyz.com/photo/2015/07/14/President_Obama_to_visit_federal_prison__3176500002_21405840_ver1.0_640_480.jpg)
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Yeah right. When this guy was elected al the auto companies packed up and moved away.
You want to really know what happened to Detroit, it is complex and you need to read several books, rather than trusting some idiotic rightwing blog that blames Democrats.
But basically, robots had far more to do with the demise of Detroit than Democrats.
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robots had far more to do with the demise of Detroit than Democrats.
Yes robots are the reason why Toyota opened new plants in San Antonio and Mississippi
and why Volkswagen opened a new plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
LOL
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They got special tax exemptions and might have even gotten money to build the plant.
Detroit was ideal in the 1920'a because it was accessible by water. Workers were more literate in the north, and there were decent roads.
Chattanooga was a backwater that was nearly inaccessible when it rained, and did not have the population in 1920 to staff a car company.
San Antonio in 1920 was practically a foreign country in 1920.
Building roads and keeping them clear in Michigan costs a lot more than in Texas, as does keeping warm.
And of course, Tennessee and Texas are union-hating states. But in 1920 there were no unions.
VW had a plant in Pennsylvania in the 1970's and it closed down.
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They got special tax exemptions and might have even gotten money to build the plant.
This is a thing that Mayors ,Governors and Legislators can do.
They can also promise good services, police, fire department, water etc..
This combination is tough to do if the government is wasteful with its money.
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You have children attending crappy run down schools, you have people hungry that cannot find jobs and will not have any way to get transportation to the new automated factories, and you give millions and tax breaks to a wealthy corporation to build a factory.
And somehow, it is all the fault of the mayor of Detroit because he belongs to the wrong party.
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Nothing to do with party, and everything to do with policies put in place
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Could it be that a little kindness would be good for companies , which would be good for employment?
What would be closer to the roots of the problem, too few taxes or too few taxpayers?
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On the topic of robots . I think an american invented plant automation but the unions prevented from being introduced in the U.S. So it went to japan and america has to play catch up ever since.
I believe why foriegn companies open plants in the U.S. Is simply to cut shipping cost which was a major factor advantage U.S. Cars had over other cars.
I always believed the slogan buy american hurt our our country because it gave us a excuse to be lazy and never try improve through competition. Notice ameticans never ever say how can we do this better
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Unions have not prevented automation in car assembly plants. GM's Vega plant in Ohio was the most automated by far when it was built in the 1970's.
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I think thats the time japan was finally competting.
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GM started automated factories, but they had to work out the bugs, and did it poorly. The Vega was a miserable failure as a car due to GM refusing to use steel sleeves in the aluminum block and decent rustproofing on the body. I have not seen a Vega or a Pontiac Astre in years, not even in an old car show. They were a pretty design, more so than the Chevette.
The Japanese seemed to have learned more about both robotic manufacture and how to treat workers from GM's efforts than GM did.
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I heard that one of the advantage the japanese automakers had was they actually listen to the complaints and actually made thier cars better. American automakers saw no real threat and didn't really see a need to improve in those days.
Ford used to mean Found On Road Dead------Fix Or Repair Daily
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The American auto industry was predicated on planned obsolescence: the car was designed to give about 80K miles of service and then traded in on the new, improved model, which most often only had new sheetmetal. The Japanese built their cars to last, and when people complained, they acted on the complaints.
All the car magazines always praise the BMW's, VW's, Porsches,Audis, Benzes and even Land Rovers. But Consumer Reports rarely rates these brands as the best choices, because they are very expensive to maintain. The Land Rovers are perhaps the most unreliable luxury cars available, but Motor Trend loves them. I suppose that for the first four or five years they are fun to drive, but you sure as Hell do not want to buy one out of warranty.
Lexus, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan and Honda outlast most US and German models. Lexus is usually the highest rated for reliability.
Some Hyundais are more reliable according to CR than Benzes that cost three times more.
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the proof that americans can`t compete is that when you park a foreign make car near a U.S. auto plant and the workers will never ever say nice car but we can do better.
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Americans clearly can compete, as if they could not no one would buy an American car. They do make better trucks, at least if they are not packed with accessories. And a Corvette is certainly cheaper to buy and to maintain than a Porsche.
People that buy or lease BMW's do not plan to keep them for more than four years or so, and they do handle nicely, as do the new Cadillacs.
Americans companies do not treat their workers like members of a real team, so their main goal is that paycheck. The same is true for the CEO's and all the rest of the company.
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Can but the current trend of buy american only is not helping people to want to make thing better.
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If I buy a Ford rather than a Dodge, and many other people do the same, because Fords are more dependable, comfortable or prettier, that serves as a message to Dodge to copy the features Ford buyers prefer. Or vice versa. So even if you only buy American, quality can be incentivized. Of course, your Ford might be built in Mexico, and your Dodge might be built in Italy or Canada.
Not long ago, someone decided to put turn signal flashers on the rear view mirrors. An excellent idea. Now everyone offers this.
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i believe thats true today. But not in the past. It was not long ago the big three went to congresss for a loan was humbled by being turned downed. The truth is two of the company is in trouble but thier so interdependant the third had to go also. Theese companies are in so much trouble the unions actually gave up a good chunk of thier benefits like job banks. They knew it better than getting zero.
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The future of cars probably includes more rideshare and less sales. More intelligence and collision avoidance built into the cars, self driving even.
I used to think that new fuels were coming , but gas looks like it will be reasonably priced for a long time now.
So are these old and large companies agile enough to cope with change?
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Some will be, perhaps others will not.
We have no more Studebakers or Hudsons. I owned one of each, a Champion and a Hornet (with Twin H-Power) even. It had a 308 cu. in flathead six with two four barrels and weighed about th same as Moby Dick. It got 7 mpg. when driven over 70.
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Gas price is one of the factors that has hurt the auto industry. Since the price went down suv sales has gone up finally. People are starting to feel they can risks. Strange thing the gas companies says they are hurting from this. I think one company is trying to arrainge to buy mexican shale oil to raise prices. Just can't feel bad for them
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When I owned the Hudson, gasoline was never over 25ยข a gallon.
People who buy huge SUVs because gas prices have dropped this time have to be really stupid, as this has happened many times before, leaving the poor fools with a huge gas guzzler that no one will buy when they want to trade it in on something with better mileage.