I wish some of you would get your terms right

[_JS]

In reality, the battle against Israel is founded within the mutated interpretations of the Quran & Islam

Are you sure that Israeli political policies play no role in the backlash against their state?

[sirs]

Are you sure that Israeli political policies play no role in the backlash against their state?

"no role"?  Try some role, but the "primary role"?, no.  Keep in mind, there were no "political policies" in play by the Israelis, when the UN repartitioned an area for them in '47-8, and the subsequent attacks by the surrounding Arab nations.  It was simply their presence that facilitated the beginning "backlash", and has been an ongoing backlash ever since

[_JS]

We're not talking about attacks by Arab nations that have militaries. We are talking about terrorism and attacks by small groups who are hostile to the nation of Israel.

Now, why would they be hostile to the state of Israel?

Let me ask you, do you feel that Israel is a true and fair democratic nation?

[sirs]

Now, why would they be hostile to the state of Israel?

Asked and answered already.  The indoctrination of generation after generation of children, right out of the crib, of how evil & oppressive Israel is supposed to be.  That they alone are the reason for all misery.  If they no longer existed, all would be just peachy.  Began largely when Israel was re-established as a sovereign country back in the late 40's early 50's incidentally

Let me ask you, do you feel that Israel is a true and fair democratic nation?

"True" nation?  I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean.  A Democratic nation?, sure appears so.  Especially compared to so many other countries around the region

[_JS]

"True" nation?  I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean.  A Democratic nation?, sure appears so.  Especially compared to so many other countries around the region

No, you skipped the operator "and."

The words "true" and "fair" should qualify "democratic."

I'll ask again more clearly.

Do you feel that Israel is a true democratic nation and a fair democratic nation? Please don't give an answer relative to their neighbors. After all, I don't think many of us argued which Warsaw Pact nation was a democracy based on relativity to the others. Clearly Israel's neighbors are not shining examples of democracy. That's not at question, nor is it my question.

[sirs]

Do you feel that Israel is a true democratic nation...

I'm still confused with this qualifier of "true".  True in the sense that the citizens vote for who they want to represent their country?  That they don't have a shadow dictatorship actually running things?  Give me an example of a "false democratic nation", and some examples that would fit that definition, please

and a fair democratic nation?

Given that they have a plethora of parties vs our majority 2 party system, it could be argued they are exponentially more fair than even we are as a Democratic nation.  So, I guess the answer would be yes.

[The_Professor]

Do you feel that Israel is a true democratic nation and a fair democratic nation?

Well, WE, for example, are not. We are a representative democracy, but is that a TRUE democracy? We do not, for example, directly elect our President; that is accomplished via the Electoral College.

How does Isreal do this?

[Plane]

We're not talking about attacks by Arab nations that have militaries. We are talking about terrorism and attacks by small groups who are hostile to the nation of Israel.

Now, why would they be hostile to the state of Israel?

Let me ask you, do you feel that Israel is a true and fair democratic nation?

Yes

This is an unqualified yes.



Would you consider the USA in 1831 a true and fair Democracy?

I would , but not a perfect one , just one with a means of peacefull change and lots of potential for improvement.

Didn't we get in our worst troubble ever when we gave up on our built in peacefull means for change?

[larry]

Israel is not and has never been a democray and neither is the United State Of America. The reason in both cases is religious bias. To be a serious candidate for office in either country, one must be a professed moralist. Bigotry is a bias political state of mind as well as it is a bias religious state of mind. The idea of "separation Of Powers" has never been anything more than a concept and therefore, religious intolerance has never been subjected to the checks and balances of duly established laws.  This is why we have a radical fundamentalist as president of the United States today and why Israel a radical fundamentalist nation today.

Socialism and secular laws are designed to limit the influence of religious doctrine. The Democratic Party of the United States has promoted a democratic socialist political platform since the early 1900s. The Republic Party has promoted a Capitalist Political platform over the same period. Neither party has promoted a democratic platform in truth.

The conflicts between secular government and religious government is not a battle between good and evil. It is a battle between extremist and those extremist do not represent the majority, nor do that represent the duly established secular laws of either, the U.S. or Israel. The big question is whose religious fanatics are a greater threat, Theirs our ours?

[Plane]

Israel is not and has never been a democray and neither is the United State Of America. The reason in both cases is religious bias. To be a serious candidate for office in either country, one must be a professed moralist. "

Well there you are , absolutely wrong.

A religious test for office is forbidden in our Constitution , both for elected and appointed office.

It is Democracy that garuntees that most serious canadates must please Christians because most of us are Christians and vote in our own best interest.

In some Socialist Countrys a religious test was administered to become a member of the ruleing party , so that even where most of the population was Orthodox Christian in Russia the entire leadership of the USSR was athiest , such a religious test is anti-democratic.


Most of the departures from pure democracy that are features of the US government are protections for minoritys  , which is a good thing for canadates that are minoritys isn't it?

[larry]

"A religious test for office is forbidden in our Constitution , both for elected and appointed office."

Show me an atheist that is supported by the GOP or the DNC. Actions are louder than words. Passing the religious test is vital to every candidate. This is the problem, the U.S. constitution is being ignored by both parties.

[Amianthus]

Actions are louder than words. Passing the religious test is vital to every candidate.

Actually, it's got nothing to do with a "religious test." A poll that included 10 major religious groups (yes, atheism is a religion) had people rate how much they liked or disliked people of that group. The atheists came out second to last (disliked by 44% and liked by only 15%) - the only group rated worse were the Scientologists.

It's not a religious test - most atheists just rub other people the wrong way. And when you piss off the voters, you don't get elected, no matter what your religion.

[_JS]

I'm still confused with this qualifier of "true".  True in the sense that the citizens vote for who they want to represent their country?  That they don't have a shadow dictatorship actually running things?  Give me an example of a "false democratic nation", and some examples that would fit that definition, please

It is a subjective question. Would you consider the United States a true democratic nation? Many people say there is no greater nation on Earth than the Untied States. If we use the United States of 2006 as a qualifier, would Israel fit that model of freedom and democratic ideals?


OK.

Is Israel a fair democratic nation?[/i]

We have some consensus here. Plane and Sirs both agree.

Sirs says the plethora of parties and therefore the voting system of Israel perhaps makes it even more fair than the United States. Plane answers an "unqualified yes."

Now, I'm going to ask a straightforward question. Do you consider the South African Republic of the early 1980's to have been a fair democratic nation?

[Plane]

Now, I'm going to ask a straightforward question. Do you consider the South African Republic of the early 1980's to have been a fair democratic nation?

Yes


I think I am beginnng to see where you are going , so I answer yes The USA of 1860 was worse off than the South Africa of 1980 , rather than abandon the democratic process the Africans finally enfranchised their disenfranchised , if we had tried that here we might not have killed and maimed a whole generation.

Democracy is not a synonym for perfection , it is more like a means of makeing struggle peacefull.

[_JS]

Interesting reply Plane.

So Botha's government, from your point of view, qualifies as a fair democratic nation.

Do others agree? Sirs?