Author Topic: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?  (Read 3499 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MissusDe

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 221
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« on: June 11, 2007, 04:03:54 PM »
The words "natural family," "marriage" and "union of a man and a woman" can be punished as "hate speech" in government workplaces, according to a lawsuit that is being appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court.
    Briefs for Good News Employee Association vs. Hicks, which were filed June 5 with the nation's highest court, lists D.C. school board President Robert C. Bobb as one of two plaintiffs. The case originated five years ago in Oakland, Calif., during his tenure there as city manager.
    The dispute began in January 2003, when the two Oakland employees created a subgroup at their workplace called the "Good News Employee Association." It was partly in response to a group of homosexual employees having formed their own group 10 months before and being given access to the city e-mail system. One e-mail, dated Oct. 11, 2002, invited city employees to participate in "National Coming-Out Day."
    When several employees asked whether such a posting was legitimate city business, they got an e-mail from City Council member Danny Wan, reminding them that a "celebration of the gay/lesbian culture and movement" was part of the city's role to "celebrate diversity."
    In response, the Good News employees posted an introductory flier on the employee bulletin board Jan. 3.
    It said: "Preserve Our Workplace With Integrity: Good News Employee Association is a forum for people of faith to express their views on the contemporary issues of the day." It said it opposed "all views which seek to redefine the natural family and marriage," which it defined as "a union of a man and a woman, according to California state law."
    Anyone who wanted to help preserve "integrity in the workplace" was invited to contact the two employees: Regina Rederford and Robin Christy.
    A lesbian co-worker, Judith Jennings, spotted the flier and complained to the city attorney's office that it made her feel "targeted" and "excluded," according to a deposition. The flier was removed by a supervisor because it violated the city's anti-discrimination rules.
    A U.S. District Court for Northern California ruling said the words "natural family" and "marriage" had "anti-homosexual import."
    However, Miss Rederford was told she could announce the group's presence on the city's e-mail system if she removed "verbiage that could be offensive to gay people."
    In late February 2003, Joyce Hicks, a city deputy executive director and the other defendant in the suit, sent out a memo to city employees. It cited recent incidents where "fliers were placed in public view which contained statements of a homophobic nature" and warned employees they could be fired for posting such material.
    Miss Rederford and Miss Christy sued the city, claiming their First Amendment rights had been violated. According to court documents, employees had posted bulletin announcements on everything from terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden to local sporting events, yet those had not been removed.
    The district court disagreed, saying the women had other venues in which to proclaim their message. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said employees' freedom of speech takes a back seat to employers' "legitimate administrative interests." They were allowed to submit a new flier, subject to "certain editorial constraints."
    "This incredible and devastating ruling has had the practical effect of silencing hundreds, if not thousands, of City of Oakland employees who simply wish to talk about marriage and family values," said a statement from the Pro-Family Law Center in Temecula, Calif., which represents the plaintiffs.
    "To the extent that this ruling has been shared by Oakland with other cities, there is a huge risk that these rulings are being treated as precedent by other cities across the nation," the statement continued.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20070610-111445-6957r.htm

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 04:37:26 PM »
Perhaps I need to repost my PC run amuck commentary again.  Just so pathetic       >:(
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2007, 05:47:15 PM »
The gay group posted a message that appealed to other gays to celebrate their common interests together.  They were celebrating something that they could come out of closet and not have to hide their sexual identity any more.  It was positive and liberating.

They didn't say that they opposed anybody else's life-style or identity.  They didn't say they excluded people who attacked the homosexual life.

The so-called "Christians" on the other hand posted an announcement directly attacking their fellow workers.  <<It said it opposed "all views which seek to redefine the natural family and marriage," which it defined as "a union of a man and a woman, according to California state law.">>

They're basically calling on other workers to join together to oppose the efforts of gay people to include themselves in the traditional and legal definitions of family.  Note that the gay people did not ask anyone to come together to delegitimize traditional marriage and family.
   
<<Anyone who wanted to help preserve "integrity in the workplace" was invited to contact the two employees: Regina Rederford and Robin Christy...

And in addition they gratuitously insulted their gay co-workers by the inference that they somehow lacked integrity, that their presence in  the workplace threatened the "integrity" of the workplace. 

These characters set out to stir up strife between workers by insulting one group and inciting others to organize against them.  If they had been working for me I'd have fired their ass in two seconds flat.  NOBODY has a "right" to insult fellow workers and stir up discord in the workplace."  If they want to promote the politics of hatred they can do it on their own time.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2007, 05:53:13 PM »
They didn't say that they opposed anybody else's life-style or identity.

What's the text of the homosexual group's flyers?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Lanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2007, 09:00:24 PM »

They have time to worry about this crap, they are NOT working hard enough.
Oh wait, American Idol's over! Never mind. 
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 12:19:24 PM »
From the Missus' post, this is all there was on the content of their message:

One e-mail, dated Oct. 11, 2002, invited city employees to participate in "National Coming-Out Day."
    When several employees asked whether such a posting was legitimate city business, they got an e-mail from City Council member Danny Wan, reminding them that a "celebration of the gay/lesbian culture and movement" was part of the city's role to "celebrate diversity."

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 12:22:03 PM »
From the Missus' post, this is all there was on the content of their message:

One e-mail, dated Oct. 11, 2002, invited city employees to participate in "National Coming-Out Day."
    When several employees asked whether such a posting was legitimate city business, they got an e-mail from City Council member Danny Wan, reminding them that a "celebration of the gay/lesbian culture and movement" was part of the city's role to "celebrate diversity."


Why does diversity exclude Christian messages?

Or why does diversity accept only positive comments on certain subjects?


Perhaps "diversity " as defined by a dictionary , is just not the right word.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 12:40:43 PM »
From the Missus' post, this is all there was on the content of their message:

I read what her post said. I was wondering how you knew that the content of their message did not include anything offensive to non-gays.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2007, 01:25:50 PM »
<<I read what her post said. I was wondering how you knew that the content of their message did not include anything offensive to non-gays.>>

In some newpaper pieces, I assume that the reporter had done his or her job and shown both sides fairly.  In this case, since the piece came from the right-wing Washington Times, it could even be assumed to favour the "Christian" side of the issue, so it was likely that nothing that showed the other side in a bad light would have been left out.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2007, 01:35:09 PM »
It's good to see that Tee had validated the template of which papers are RW vs LW.  So, we can all now safely assume anything coming from the Washington Post, NYTimes, not to mention the LA Times, among the biggies can be assumed to "favor the liberal cause" of an issue, with the complimetary 1 sided ommissions
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2007, 01:44:35 PM »
<<It's good to see that Tee had validated the template of which papers are RW vs LW.  >>

Yeah, I really broke new ground with that one.  Let it be known from this time forth that I, Michael Tee, was the first person in North America to identify the Washington Times as a right-wng paper.  This amazing discovery is expected to revoutionize the world of news commentary.

<<So, we can all now safely assume anything coming from the Washington Post, NYTimes, not to mention the LA Times, among the biggies can be assumed to "favor the liberal cause" of an issue, with the complimetary 1 sided ommissions >>

Uhh, if you were paying attention, sirs, I believe I had said that my assumption was, with respect to the Washington Times article, that it had omitted nothing from its reportage of the gay-lesbian newsletter's contents.  In other words, I assumed that there were no "1 sided omissions," there were no 2-sided omissions, there were no omissions.  None.  That's what I had assumed.  You, of course, may assume whatever you please.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2007, 01:47:50 PM »
Ahhh, good to see Tee's refining his abhorrent misrepresentation techniques.  Good job, Tee
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2007, 01:49:57 PM »
<<Ahhh, good to see Tee's refining his abhorrent misrepresentation techniques.  Good job, Tee>>

Abhorrent?  moi?

What did I "misrepresent" this time?

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2007, 01:52:29 PM »
<<I read what her post said. I was wondering how you knew that the content of their message did not include anything offensive to non-gays.>>

In some newpaper pieces, I assume that the reporter had done his or her job and shown both sides fairly.  In this case, since the piece came from the right-wing Washington Times, it could even be assumed to favour the "Christian" side of the issue, so it was likely that nothing that showed the other side in a bad light would have been left out.

From another article:

Quote
Meanwhile Oakland's Gay-Straight Employees Alliance "was openly allowed to attack the Bible in widespread city e-mails, to deride Christian values as antiquated, and to refer to Bible-believing Christians as hateful. When the plaintiffs attempted to refute this blatant attack on people of faith, they were threatened with immediate termination by the City of Oakland. The Ninth Circuit did not feel that the threat of immediate termination had any effect on free speech," the appeal said.
N-word fine, but 'family values' banned
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Marriage - latest addition to hate speech list?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2007, 02:10:54 PM »
Well, it's possible that the Washington Times reporter did a shitty job of presenting the gay-lesbian group in the worst light possible.  So my assumption in that case would have been wrong.  NBD.  The article was posted and I commented on the facts as reported in the article.  More facts come up, causing me to change my opinion.

OTOH, it's possible what you just posted was a subjective view of the actual posts and/or a view without context (context in the sense of whether the posts portrayed were initiating attacks on Christianity and the Bible or merely responding defensively to religious and Bible-based attacks on them.)

FOR EXAMPLE:
1.  "attack the Bible" - - that could be anything.  First of all was it a gratuitous attack on the Bible or was it a response to a Bible-based attack on the group?  Was the whole Bible attacked or just the anti-gay part of it?
2.  "deride Christian values as antiquated" - - again, defensively or offensively?  "Christian values" as in love, charity, etc. or "Christian values" as in violent homophobia?
3.   "refer to Bible-believing Christians as hateful."  - - which ones? the City employees?  the ones who showed up at Matthew Sheppard's funeral with "Fags Burn in Hell" signs?  the ones who bomb abortion clinics?

More facts are needed now - - preferably the text - - and the context - - of the impugned e-mails.  But I was just commenting simply on a simple story.  I don't really have the time to get into this one story. 

As reported, commentary was a no-brainer.  As further digging turns up a potentially more complex story, opinion (mine included) is subject to change.  Is it possible the gay-lesbian group went over the line?  Sure it is.  Is it possible they were in fact as unoffending as the original article would indicate?  Sure it is.  Which is it?  Don't care enough to pursue.  It's not that interesting, since I could take either side once the facts are known without compromising any of my basic principles: that gays deserve respect and tolerance in the workplace but they can't be allowed to gratuitously attack others.