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Religious Dick

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Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« on: August 20, 2008, 11:57:20 AM »
Looks like the more the public sees of Hopenchange, the less they think of him...

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Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:01am EDT

By John Whitesides, Political Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a sharp turnaround, Republican John McCain has opened a 5-point lead on Democrat Barack Obama in the U.S. presidential race and is seen as a stronger manager of the economy, according to a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday.

McCain leads Obama among likely U.S. voters by 46 percent to 41 percent, wiping out Obama's solid 7-point advantage in July and taking his first lead in the monthly Reuters/Zogby poll.

The reversal follows a month of attacks by McCain, who has questioned Obama's experience, criticized his opposition to most new offshore oil drilling and mocked his overseas trip.

The poll was taken Thursday through Saturday as Obama wrapped up a weeklong vacation in Hawaii that ceded the political spotlight to McCain, who seized on Russia's invasion of Georgia to emphasize his foreign policy views.

"There is no doubt the campaign to discredit Obama is paying off for McCain right now," pollster John Zogby said. "This is a significant ebb for Obama."

McCain now has a 9-point edge, 49 percent to 40 percent, over Obama on the critical question of who would be the best manager of the economy -- an issue nearly half of voters said was their top concern in the November 4 presidential election.

That margin reversed Obama's 4-point edge last month on the economy over McCain, an Arizona senator and former Vietnam prisoner of war who has admitted a lack of economic expertise and shows far greater interest in foreign and military policy.

McCain has been on the offensive against Obama during the last month over energy concerns, with polls showing strong majorities supporting his call for an expansion of offshore oil drilling as gasoline prices hover near $4 a gallon.

Obama had opposed new offshore drilling, but said recently he would support a limited expansion as part of a comprehensive energy program.

That was one of several recent policy shifts for Obama, as he positions himself for the general election battle. But Zogby said the changes could be taking a toll on Obama's support, particularly among Democrats and self-described liberals.

"That hairline difference between nuance and what appears to be flip-flopping is hurting him with liberal voters," Zogby said.

Obama's support among Democrats fell 9 percentage points this month to 74 percent, while McCain has the backing of 81 percent of Republicans. Support for Obama, an Illinois senator, fell 12 percentage points among liberals, with 10 percent of liberals still undecided compared to 9 percent of conservatives.

OBAMA NEEDS TO WORK ON BASE

"Conservatives were supposed to be the bigger problem for McCain," Zogby said. "Obama still has work to do on his base. At this point McCain seems to be doing a better job with his."

The dip in support for Obama, who would be the first black U.S. president, cut across demographic and ideological lines. He slipped among Catholics, born-again Christians, women, independents and younger voters. He retained the support of more than 90 percent of black voters.

"There were no wild swings, there isn't one group that is radically different than last month or even two months ago. It was just a steady decline for Obama across the board," Zogby said.

Obama's support among voters between the ages of 18 and 29, which had been one of his strengths, slipped 12 percentage points to 52 percent. McCain, who will turn 72 next week, was winning 40 percent of younger voters.

"Those are not the numbers Obama needs to win," Zogby said about Americans under 30. The 47-year-old is counting on a strong turnout among young voters, a key bloc of support during his primary battle with New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

It made little difference when independent candidate Ralph Nader and Libertarian Party candidate Bob Barr, who are both trying to add their names to state ballots.

McCain still held a 5-point edge over Obama, 44 percent to 39 percent, when all four names were included. Barr earned 3 percent and Nader 2 percent.

Most national polls have given Obama a narrow lead over McCain throughout the summer. In the Reuters/Zogby poll, Obama had a 5-point lead in June, shortly after he clinched the Democratic nomination, and an 8-point lead on McCain in May.

The telephone poll of 1,089 likely voters had a margin of error of 3 percentage points.

The poll was taken as both candidates head into their nominating conventions and the announcements of their choices of vice presidential picks. The Democratic convention begins on Monday in Denver, with the Republican convention opening the next Monday, September 1, in St. Paul, Minnesota.

(Editing by Patricia Wilson and Patricia Zengerle)

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Thomson Reuters journalists are subject to an Editorial Handbook which requires fair presentation and disclosure of relevant interests.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUKN1948672420080820?sp=true
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Michael Tee

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2008, 12:22:50 PM »
<<But Zogby said the changes could be taking a toll on Obama's support, particularly among Democrats and self-described liberals.

<<"That hairline difference between nuance and what appears to be flip-flopping is hurting him with liberal voters," Zogby said.>>

If Obama loses, he'll have no one to blame but himself.  There were a lot of people who were ready for change, but the more he compromises on change, the more his original supporters feel, "This isn't the guy I thought he was."

It's kinda sad, but I've seen it before with Clinton.  The difference was, Bill showed his true colours AFTER the election was won.  Far as I'm concerned, if Obama really isn't that much of a change, it's better to find out before he's elected than after.

The other comment I have is that NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING WORKS.  It's working for McCain and it could work for Obama.  McCain's a criminal, he's one of the Keating Five, he cheated in the Saddleback "debate" and he cheated on his first wife.  He's a dummy and his academic record proves it.  He's old.  He betrayed his country.  He broadcast for the enemy.  His torture was kiddie stuff.  He actually got special treatment as the son of an admiral.  They should get some real torture victims who escaped from U.S. sponsored death squads in El Salvador or Guatemala to talk about what happened to THEM and their friends and family on Ronnie Reagan's nickel and then openly ridicule McSame's phony claims that he was also a "torture victim."  Playing this all "respectful" towards McSame, when McSame shows no respect for him, means that I also lose respect for him.  He LOOKS "weak and spineless" so he's gotta stop acting weak and spineless.

BT

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2008, 05:20:04 PM »
Better hope it doesn't get to 10 points. Obama hasn't been nominated, and Hillary is still on the ballot.



sirs

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2008, 05:40:21 PM »
Obama's praying like crazy for the convention to get here ASAP, in order to get the 5-10 point jump that comes along with it
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2008, 09:59:08 PM »

it looks like they should nominate hillary and make obama vp

off the teleprompter this guy looks like a deer in headlights





"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2008, 10:10:59 PM »
<<off the teleprompter this guy looks like a deer in headlights>>

I can't help but noticing how every RW comment on Obama always comes with a teleprompter reference.  Is there some kind of Fascist Central where you guys check in every time before commenting and is "teleprompter" some kind of mandatory reference that you'll lose your Republican Party membership over if you DON'T use it in every post that mentions Obama's name?

Can anyone explain to me how Obama could lecture on Constitutional Law for 12 years at the University of Chicago Law School, fielding questions from students who are the cream of academic crop, without a teleprompter?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2008, 11:10:44 PM »
"Can anyone explain to me how Obama could lecture on Constitutional Law for 12 years at the University of Chicago Law School, fielding questions from students who are the cream of academic crop, without a teleprompter?"
 
 
yeah
he wasnt running for office
speaking to a few students in a classroom is hardly a good indicator that this guy doesn't suck off teleprompter

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThEAO0lt4Dw[/youtube]
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2008, 11:36:13 PM »
<<off the teleprompter this guy looks like a deer in headlights>>

I can't help but noticing how every RW comment on Obama always comes with a teleprompter reference.  Is there some kind of Fascist Central where you guys check in every time before commenting and is "teleprompter" some kind of mandatory reference that you'll lose your Republican Party membership over if you DON'T use it in every post that mentions Obama's name?

No.  Next completely irrational question?


Can anyone explain to me how Obama could lecture on Constitutional Law for 12 years at the University of Chicago Law School, fielding questions from students who are the cream of academic crop, without a teleprompter?

I see...so Oblather's job as President is to lecture us citizens.  Great idea Tee.  Send his staff the idea, to get it in his stump speeches, ASAP
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2008, 11:41:00 PM »
<<off the teleprompter this guy looks like a deer in headlights>>

I can't help but noticing how every RW comment on Obama always comes with a teleprompter reference.  Is there some kind of Fascist Central where you guys check in every time before commenting and is "teleprompter" some kind of mandatory reference that you'll lose your Republican Party membership over if you DON'T use it in every post that mentions Obama's name?

Can anyone explain to me how Obama could lecture on Constitutional Law for 12 years at the University of Chicago Law School, fielding questions from students who are the cream of academic crop, without a teleprompter?


I donno, do you suppose that is tougher than being the commanding officer of a Squadron?

The comparison isn't with other professors and lecturers , it is with John McCain , in this league you can be very very good and still come in second because you are up against better.

The Teleprompter has been present in BHOs best speeches and he really is avoiding venues that deprive him of it , apparently he would be smart to continue to avoid direct comparison with John McCains smarts.

Michael Tee

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2008, 01:27:16 AM »
<<I donno, do you suppose that [being a Professor of Constitutional Law] is tougher than being the commanding officer of a Squadron?>>

Of course it is.  Much tougher.  You are talking about the ability to comprehend some of the most complex legal arguments in the world, master the issues in all their complexity and to endlessly debate them head-on with some of the brightest and most articulate students in the country year after year after year and not make a fool of yourself doing so. 

McCain was basically about as competent as the captain of an athletic team or the manager of a medium-size business.  Guys like that are a dime a dozen.  Plus the little weasel had the advantage of the McCain name and the contacts of his father and grandfather who must have been in just about every nook and cranny of the Navy.  Every one of them would be eager and proud to lend him an ear, extend a helping hand, a tip, a good word in the right place, etc.  The fact that he never rose to the posts occupied by his father and grandfather says volumes about the man's innate competence.

If you have any doubts about the relative brain-power of the two men, compare Obama's brilliant academic record with McCain's miserable performance.

<<The comparison isn't with other professors and lecturers , it is with John McCain . . . >>

EXACTLY - - with John McCain: a louse, a cheat, a liar and an adulterer.  A moron who couldn't rise higher than fifth from the bottom of his class in a fucking military school.  And HE'S gonna match brain-power with a magna cum laude grad of the Harvard Law School, editor of the Harvard Law Review and Professor of Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago for 12 years?  Because he's a fucking fighter pilot and squadron commander?  plane, have you lost it?  Are you totally fucking insane?  How can you even ask the question, which job is tougher?

<<The Teleprompter has been present in BHOs best speeches and he really is avoiding venues that deprive him of it >>

I wouldn't think that's true, it's absurd considering what he would have had to do as Professor of Constitutional Law - - that's not teleprompter country, plane.  People give speeches use whatever memory aids suit them best, teleprompter, skeleton notes, whatever, so I don't fault him for using a hi-tech device if available, but the idea that he, a former law professor, NEEDS a teleprompter to deal with an audience of everyday schleppers when he dealt every day without one with a bunch of University of Chicago law students, is really just nuts.  Proving, if anything, that you have no idea of what it takes to be a Professor anywhere, let alone a top law school.

<<, apparently he would be smart to continue to avoid direct comparison with John McCains smarts.>>

John McCain doesn't have smarts.  If he does, he keeps them well hidden.  I haven't seen any evidence of "smarts" in this little weasel, since I first became aware of his existence.  I have seen plenty of things in him to indicate the exact reverse of smarts, however.

Plane

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2008, 01:41:46 AM »
  I think you have almost grasped the problem.

Indeed there have been many more of us belonging to Squadrons than to University faculity , this is not an Obama advantage. It is easyer to get into an Ivy league School than one of our three military academys , distain for a military adademy education would seem insufferably eleteist , we do elect a lot of ivy leagers to become president Harvard especially , but Annapolos and West Point have also produced Presidents regularly.

How many people will feel sympathy for a hell raising cadet compared to the number that will feel sympathy for an ivy league  saluditorian graduate student ? Lets imagine a two screen theater playing two movies "Top Gun" and "Good Bye Mr Chips" Which way do you expect the ticket sales to run?



By the way most of us consider Congress and senate offices to be high ranking , belittleing this rise in rank won't help Senator Obama that much.


"...than fifth from the bottom of his class in a fucking military school.  And HE'S gonna match brain-power with a magna cum laude grad of the Harvard Law School, editor of the Harvard Law Review and Professor of Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago for 12 years?  Because he's a fucking fighter pilot and squadron commander?  plane, have you lost it?  Are you totally fucking insane?  How can you even ask the question, ....""

I can ask this question because it is Obama that is avoiding the very sort of face to face debate at which one would expect him to excell , perhaps he had some excuse for breaking his promise to meet in debate a lot back when he had a lead to loose , but his lead is slipping anyway now , perhaps because he is showing a white feather.

Michael Tee

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2008, 11:15:12 AM »
<<I think you have almost grasped the problem.

<<Indeed there have been many more of us belonging to Squadrons than to University faculity , this is not an Obama advantage. It is easyer to get into an Ivy league School than one of our three military academys , distain for a military adademy education would seem insufferably eleteist , we do elect a lot of ivy leagers to become president Harvard especially , but Annapolos and West Point have also produced Presidents regularly.

<<How many people will feel sympathy for a hell raising cadet compared to the number that will feel sympathy for an ivy league  saluditorian graduate student ? Lets imagine a two screen theater playing two movies "Top Gun" and "Good Bye Mr Chips" Which way do you expect the ticket sales to run?>>

That's very well said and you certainly do have a point.  The American people and their military do have a little thing going which the rest of us either underestimate or don't understand at all.

Personally, I think it's a one-way road to disaster.  Germany and Japan are two good examples of where unchecked militarism will take you, and Iraq and Afghanistan are just little signposts along that road which stretches a long way ahead.

But I think you're right, the crypto-fascist dummy McCain and his sinister entourage are going to whip the laid-back Law Professor's Ivy League ass and win this election handily.  The rest of the world had better take note of what's happening and put aside their petty squabbles and their differences.  I'd love to live for a hundred years, just to see the end of this story. 

You set out your prediction of the election results very well, plane.

Plane

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2008, 02:29:14 AM »
<<I think you have almost grasped the problem.

<<Indeed there have been many more of us belonging to Squadrons than to University faculity , this is not an Obama advantage. It is easyer to get into an Ivy league School than one of our three military academys , distain for a military adademy education would seem insufferably eleteist , we do elect a lot of ivy leagers to become president Harvard especially , but Annapolos and West Point have also produced Presidents regularly.

<<How many people will feel sympathy for a hell raising cadet compared to the number that will feel sympathy for an ivy league  saluditorian graduate student ? Lets imagine a two screen theater playing two movies "Top Gun" and "Good Bye Mr Chips" Which way do you expect the ticket sales to run?>>

That's very well said and you certainly do have a point.  The American people and their military do have a little thing going which the rest of us either underestimate or don't understand at all.

Personally, I think it's a one-way road to disaster.  Germany and Japan are two good examples of where unchecked militarism will take you, and Iraq and Afghanistan are just little signposts along that road which stretches a long way ahead.

But I think you're right, the crypto-fascist dummy McCain and his sinister entourage are going to whip the laid-back Law Professor's Ivy League ass and win this election handily.  The rest of the world had better take note of what's happening and put aside their petty squabbles and their differences.  I'd love to live for a hundred years, just to see the end of this story. 

You set out your prediction of the election results very well, plane.


If you think it is militarism then I haven't explained it too well.

WE have one of the4 most disiplined and -unlikely to attack the state- militarys that the world has ever seen. It isn't militarism , it is a citizenship of the soldier.

Michael Tee

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2008, 10:25:31 AM »
<<If you think it is militarism then I haven't explained it too well.

<<WE have one of the4 most disiplined and -unlikely to attack the state- militarys that the world has ever seen. It isn't militarism , it is a citizenship of the soldier.>>

When I said militarism, I wasn't thinking of the army attacking the state, which I agree seems unlikely given the discipline and traditions of the U.S. military.  I meant by "militarism" the civilian reverence for the military, the blank cheques that it writes them, the deference that it gives to military opinions and the undue influence that the military is allowed to exert over public opinion.

There just seems to be a general worshipful attitude towards the military which is IMHO unhealthy and too easily exploited by demagogues.  The troops are just another executive arm of the state, carrying out its policy, but it just seems to me that although people have no qualms about criticizing other branches of the executive who exercise important Federal functions such as regulating business and commerce, any criticism of the troops is taboo.  Despite the fact that the troops, in their function or malfunction, can bring life or death to hundreds of thousands of people, whereas the dumbest and most incompetent bureaucrat can only cause aggravation and loss or damage to property.  It is militarism that protects the military from not only public criticism but criminal liability for its crimes.

sirs

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Re: Poll shows McCain in 5-point lead over Obama
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2008, 11:24:12 AM »
I meant by "militarism" the civilian reverence for the military, the blank cheques that it writes them, the deference that it gives to military opinions and the undue influence that the military is allowed to exert over public opinion.  There just seems to be a general worshipful attitude towards the military which is IMHO unhealthy and too easily exploited by demagogues. 

That's because you're getting worshipful confused with thankful.  This country wouldn't be what it is, without the military.  The globe would all be speaking German or Japanese if it wasn't for our military.  They are the front line, risking everything to protect this country.  For that, we are eternally thankful.


It is militarism that protects the military from not only public criticism but criminal liability for its crimes.

Protects them from criticism??  What are you smoking this AM, Tee?  Never seen an anti-war rally??  Never saw the 60's??  Never saw the General Betray-us ad??  And just because there hasn't been some mass prosecution of crimes YOU think they've perpetrated doesn't negate those prosecuted for crimes that have been committed.  I can concede that I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the military, when accusations, being levied by foaming at the mouth rabid anti-american/anti-military folks, are being feced at them, to see what sticks.  But if investigations uncover any truth to accusations being made, that's a whole different ballgame
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 06:53:43 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle