The value of suffering

[Xavier_Onassis]

Practically anything that is an effective drug will have the government discourage it.

I question that.

The FDA requires tests to protect the public from lethal drugs like Viox and mutant-causing drugs like Thalidomide.

I recall that the Salk vaccine for polio was put into use as soon as it passed the tests.

You just hate government.

[sirs]

We hate oppressive & stifling government.  Big difference

[Plane]

You just hate government.

Yes , but does that make me wrong?

[Xavier_Onassis]

You just hate government.

Yes , but does that make me wrong?

FUCKING-A YES it makes you wrong. If you start off with the premise that "government is the problem", then every following idea based on that premise will also be wrong.

It is like beginning with the premise that the Earth is flat, the Sun revolves around the Earth, and that rhino horn will cure impotence.

What sort of oppressing am I suggesting? Only that the government limit the production sale of opiates to the few for whom there is no other drug. That the government ban ads hawking this shit, or at least ban promotional ads for prescription drugs to people as well as doctors.

[Plane]

........ If you start off with the premise that "government is the problem", then every following idea based on that premise will also be wrong.....

I don't , that would be just as wrong as a belief that the government is Always the solution.


When the government is the best solution then it is , but it really should seldom be the first resort, the bigger the government the less responsive it is to the will and need of the people.

Whatever can be done by business is better to do with business because a business can be destroyed without destroying public order .

This same principal applies to schools , churches , clubs and unions.

Whatever is smallest and nearest the people involved should be the proper tool for the solutions to problems , just so long as it is possible to be so.


Ultimately, where individuals can solve their own problems they should be let to, I am amused at people who dial 911 when they find manure on their lawn.

There are indeed problems in which the government forms the best solution, but in many instances the wrong choice is made by the government , then enforced on many individuals who could have chosen better for themselves.

[sirs]

........ If you start off with the premise that "government is the problem", then every following idea based on that premise will also be wrong.....

I don't , that would be just as wrong as a belief that the government is Always the solution.

Precisely.  Yet that's the reflexive lurch leftists will take if you dare criticize Governmental overreach, or worse, oppressive.  It has prescious little to do with hating Governnment....that's the realm of Anarchists.  Conservative have an issue with too-big-to-function efficiently Government.  When it simply becomes an ever expanding, ever worsening bloated bureacracy, that cares little for anything other that expanding & more power, it becomes a self perpetuating oppresive death spiral

[Plane]

Imagine a coral reef that was trying to grow larger than the pool it was in , taller than the high tide line encompassing all the space in the pool.

This would not work well for a coral , to overgrow the water it needs, it also does not work well for a government to grow larger than its people.

[sirs]

Excellent analogy

[Xavier_Onassis]

This country has 330 million people. That is more than double the number it was when I was born.
People got Obamacare because what we had before was inadequate and too expensive and the idea that the most profitable businesses in the country should be those that profit from the accidents and diseases of the most unfortunate citizens was loathed by a majority.

[kimba1]

But that is not address over and over i stated cost is the problem with healthcare and coverage is the only issue addressed. Which only makes things cost more. People in America actually fear getting treatment due to the uncertainty how much it would cost. No hospital has upfront pricing . Legally people cannot be denied but nothing stops a crazy stupid bill from being placed on them. Costwise healthcare is design for people to die in the streets. i think literally nobody can afford to give birth.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The principle is that capitalism moderates the price of goods and services by competition. It is entirely correct that hospitals generally refuse to reveal their prices. The hapless patient is forced to sign an agreement to pay whatever the price the hospital wishes to charge.

The only way to make capitalism work is to grab the hospitals by the balls with proper regulations and squeeeeeeeeeeeze the bastards until they reveal their prices or simply have the government slap prices on procedures.

[Plane]

This country has 330 million people. That is more than double the number it was when I was born.
People got Obamacare because what we had before was inadequate and too expensive and the idea that the most profitable businesses in the country should be those that profit from the accidents and diseases of the most unfortunate citizens was loathed by a majority.

Would it not be nice if the government had grown no more than twice as large and expensive ?

The number of people doubling might excuse the size and expense of the government doubling, not quadrupling .

Would you buy a car if the governor outweighed the engine?

Would a ship be better if the pilothouse was larger than the hold?

Would an army work better if its generals outnumbered the privates?

I suppose a farm would be best if the farmer outweighed his chickens, cows and horses.


There probably a best size for government and a right price to pay for it, I would estimate that the right size is closer to the minimum necessary than to the maximum possible. 

[sirs]

This country has 330 million people. That is more than double the number it was when I was born.
People got Obamacare because what we had before was inadequate and too expensive and the idea that the most profitable businesses in the country should be those that profit from the accidents and diseases of the most unfortunate citizens was loathed by a majority.

Would it not be nice if the government had grown no more than twice as large and expensive ?

The number of people doubling might excuse the size and expense of the government doubling, not quadrupling .

Would you buy a car if the governor outweighed the engine?

Would a ship be better if the pilothouse was larger than the hold?

Would an army work better if its generals outnumbered the privates?

I suppose a farm would be best if the farmer outweighed his chickens, cows and horses.

There probably a best size for government and a right price to pay for it, I would estimate that the right size is closer to the minimum necessary than to the maximum possible. 

another stellar anaolgy.  Spot on, Plane

[kimba1]

Im not sure that analogy works. Since most complaints are questions of policy than to many rules. If the rules are agreed than nobody would have a issue how large the government is. It's not too much government but more like what criminals always say to people "mind your own businesses".

Im totally not say the government is doing everything right far from it

[Xavier_Onassis]

The subject of this post is "the value of suffering", because Mother Teresa said that suffering per se had value and was appreciated by God.
I note that no one has seen fit to agree with Mother Teresa about this.
There is a long tradition in several religions regarding suffering as a manner of achieving enlightenment.
I think suffering sucks and should be avoided. Buddha tried suffering in the Forest of Trials

http://manganites.com/buddha/28-in-the-forest-of-trials