DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on July 31, 2016, 11:56:34 PM
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"virtually all the major scholarship on voter impersonation fraud – based largely on specific allegations and criminal investigations – has concluded that it is vanishingly rare, and certainly nowhere near the numbers necessary to have an effect on any election." Or, to put it another way, about as many people say they've been abducted by space aliens as say they've committed voter fraud.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/06/03/study-finds-strong-evidence-for-discriminatory-intent-behind-voter-id-laws/?tid=a_inl
Ok.
Who ever said that there were a large number of cheaters?
How many people admit to other crimes to surveyors?
How does a sample represent the cheating voting public? The problem is not that there are many cheaters , but that those small number are voting a large number of times.
If the representative sample actually picked up one or two people who were willing to admit that they were vote cheaters, this may actually represent thousands of false votes.
The best evidence I know of is the results achieved so far.
IN states with voter ID requirements, Minority voting did not reduce an Iota! It generally was up.
BUT there were thousands less Democratic votes than expected.
I think this means that most of the cheaters were Democratic white guys.
Now I want you to imagine that each and every guy that claims to have been abducted by aliens is voting an hundred times .
For Democrats of course, even the Democrats admit that they trust Republicans are not cheating .
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The penalties against voting more than once are high, the rewards are virtually nil.
The recent legislation ruled unconstitutional was designed deliberately to prevent poor people from voting, which means the intent was to result in fewer votes for Democrats. This is what Republicans have confessed as their intent.
They got caught with their pants down/
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The rewards actually include political power that lessens, if not removes consequences to such illicit acts
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The penalties against voting more than once are high, the rewards are virtually nil.
The recent legislation ruled unconstitutional was designed deliberately to prevent poor people from voting, which means the intent was to result in fewer votes for Democrats. This is what Republicans have confessed as their intent.
They got caught with their pants down/
In some states the odds of being caught are actually nill!
IN Illinois when Nixon and Kennedy split the vote very closely , there was plenty of evidence of voting irregularity, Nixon was just too civil to sue.
More recently Al Franken won by a margin smaller than the contestable votes. I don't consider these examples rare , only rarely so documented. Even in plain sight like the Franken election , there are no arrests.
There is a lot of contrary evidence to that evidence that minorities are being targeted , chiefly in that in states that have enacted such law , minority participation rose and did not fall.
Why fight against voter ID laws ? Would it not be easier, cheaper, to get legitimate ID to the people who need it rather than to preserve the right of the dead and imaginary to vote?
I really see a preponderance of evidence that the Democratic party depends on cheating and will fight and lie to preserve it.
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If you see this, then you are seeing things. The only reason for putting obstacles to voting is a Republican ploy to prevent certain people from voting at all. They have said so many times.
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If you see this, then you are seeing things. The only reason for putting obstacles to voting is a Republican ploy to prevent certain people from voting at all. They have said so many times.
No.
This is the law in several states.
Minority voting NOT impacted negatively at all.
Why is this not evidence at all?
Voting ID laws do not dilute the strength of the minority vote, if it did , this would show up in the numbers that these accusers would be gleefully showing.
Voting ID laws DO impact cheating, which Republicans are against.
If the point was minority voting the Republicans would just drop it for lack of results.
If the point was being fair to citizens the Democrats could use party resources to ensure ID was available .
NO , the point is cheating and preserving the right to cheat.
Think otherwise ?
Where are the numbers that demonstrate the result of these laws ?
The proof of a pudding is in the eating thereof.
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BINGO!!
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It did prevent people from voting.
Poorer Blacks did not vote.
More prosperous Blacks were made aware that the Man was trying to prevent them from voting and more of them voted.
With Obama at the top of the ticket, Blacks cam out in larger numbers.
Take your Bingo and stuff it, sirs. There is no bingo./
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It prevents nothing. Anyone that didn't vote, CHOSE not to vote, for whatever reason. People have the right to vote. No one has a right that they must vote
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(http://thefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/VoteFraudObama.jpg)
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It did prevent people from voting.
Poorer Blacks did not vote.
More prosperous Blacks were made aware that the Man was trying to prevent them from voting and more of them voted.
With Obama at the top of the ticket, Blacks cam out in larger numbers.
Take your Bingo and stuff it, sirs. There is no bingo./
So , as a means of suppressing the vote of minorities it is worse than merely a failure , it is an encouragement to minority voting.
Republicans still want it .
Democrats still hate it.
Because the suppressing of minority votes was always a red herring.
Preserving the right to cheat with impunity is much more the point.
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Precisely
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Bullshit! Texas did not get away with their racist laws.
Wait for it to turn blue. It is inevitable.
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You just think you're so superior in intellect to blacks, don't you. They just can't manage without the help of the whiteman, who can empathize with all their deficiencies. It's just sickening, how the Democrats went from supporting efforts in keeping the black population down thru intimidation (KKK), now to supporting keeping the black population down thru victimization and their "need" government control
Kimba was far more on point, regarding the real issue, which has to do with one's economic status. Of course its "easier" for some, if they have the financial where-with-all in obtaining their ID and taking the time to vote. It has SQUAT to do with race. Folks of lesser financial status, REGARDLESS OF RACE, won't have as easy a time. It's not impossible, or even improbable. My mom did it, and we were on welfare, receiving food stamps.
And as Plane made it abundantly obvious, the notion is having proof that you are who you claim you are, and make sure the votes being cast are credible and valid. Removing the vestages of cheating, which apparently is a Democratic hallmark, has always been the rationale for such laws
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Bullshit! Texas did not get away with their racist laws.
Wait for it to turn blue. It is inevitable.
Oh ?
And what would you propose to do about it if Republicans begin voting in the same manner as we see Democrats vote ?
You are for some reason sure that Republicans do not cheat , but if the right to cheat is so precious , why should we not?
ID free voting is cheating .
I am tired of not participating.
If the Georgia law that requires ID and limits my voting is struck down , why should I not vote to the limit of my strength?
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This is not about cheating. Texas will turn blue because Chicanos and Blacks have more children and each year they form a greater proportion of the population of Texas. This is what happened in California, and it has happened in Colorado and soon will happen in Arizona.
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Of course its about cheating. That's the SOLE purpose of such laws
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This is not about cheating. Texas will turn blue because Chicanos and Blacks have more children and each year they form a greater proportion of the population of Texas. This is what happened in California, and it has happened in Colorado and soon will happen in Arizona.
Are you advising me to have more children?
Or perhaps depend on the brown people to earn enough prosperity to become Republicans?
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Have as many children as you wish. I am not advising anyone to do anything, I am just stating a FACT.
When a majority of the voters are non White then the people that are elected will increasingly make the sort of choices that non White people think are appropriate to their interests.
The most virulent of the Trump voters are undereducated men who blame immigrants and Blacks for everything that they dislike about their lot in life.
At the core of the Trump campaign is a solid bunch of Po' White Trash.
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Don't be ignorant , allow everyone on the planet to come within our borders.
No filter for enemies, no limit on numbers , nope .
Limits on things are ignorant, regulation is racist.
Everything should happen in a laziz fare and wild way .
Just like banking.
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Democrats do not steal elections by voter impersonation. Vote stealing is nearly all done by absentee ballot fraud, and Republicans have done most of that here in Miami. It is largely a Cuban thing.
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Fine.
I would not mind a regulatory scheme that verified absentee ballots in much the same way that voting ID requirements verify repeat voting.
There is no point in pretending that either of these never happen, fairness depends on actual respect for democracy.
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Both are rare. Voter impersonation is many times rarer.
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Far more common than preventing anyone from voting
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Far more common than preventing anyone from voting
Good point.