DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: The_Professor on May 01, 2007, 05:23:43 PM
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Commentary: Fear of foreigners drives immigration debate
By Ruben Navarrette Jr.
Special to CNN
SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- This week marks the first anniversary of a series of major demonstrations over immigration reform. And while an entire year has gone by, Americans really haven't learned that much about the subject matter.
For instance, some immigration restrictionists are still playing pretend. They are still insisting that the only thing that people are concerned about is illegal immigration and that, with regard to legal immigration, America is as welcoming as ever.
What? Maybe that's true ... if we agree that -- despite the brochure -- America has never really welcomed immigrants, even the legal kind.
Those who insist otherwise point out that the United States takes in about 2 million legal immigrants annually.
Big deal. In a country of 300 million people that bills itself as the land of immigrants, taking in less than 1 percent of your population in legal immigrants is nothing to brag about.
Besides, the history is clear. In the late 1700's, Benjamin Franklin fretted over Pennsylvania becoming "a colony of aliens" thanks to German immigrants. In the mid-1800's, concerned that immigrants from the Far East wouldn't assimilate, Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act to keep out ... guess who. And in the early 1900's, Congress targeted Italians, Jews and Greeks by creating quotas that limited immigration by country of origin.
In each of those cases, those who tried to shut the door didn't care a whit that the people they were keeping out were coming legally. All they cared about was that the immigrants on the other side of that door were foreigners with weird languages, strange religions, and peculiar customs.
Not much has changed. Much of what's driving the current debate is the same fear of foreigners and the changes they bring.
Some groups pushing the restrictionist agenda -- such as NUMBERS USA, the Federation for American Immigration Reform and the Center for Immigration Studies, all of them started with the help of nativist John Tanton -- want to limit legal immigration as well. And Congress can't seem to debate immigration reform without declaring English the national language, even though one has nothing to do with the other.
In public opinion polls, a majority of Americans now say they want to limit all immigration, including the legal kind.
Some pundits claim that legal immigration leads to illegal immigration because, once people come to the United States legally, their relatives will follow even if it means coming illegally. On the flip side, there are those who oppose offering illegal immigrants a path to legal residency because it could make it easier for millions of additional immigrants to come into the country legally through policies that push family unification.
Others insist that the cultural concerns that come with having too much immigration -- people not learning English, changing neighborhoods, etc. -- don't go away when the immigrants in question come legally.
So let's stop pretending that it's only illegal immigration that has Americans worked up. It's immigration -- period. Along the way, we should have at least learned that much.
Ruben Navarrette Jr. is a member of the editorial board of The San Diego Union-Tribune and a nationally syndicated columnist.You can read his column here.
Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/01/navarrette/index.html
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Actually, it is not so much whether the immigration is legal or illegal: it's the numbers.
The government can control the number of LEGAL immigrants.
But illegal immigrants are not counted: we don't know how many there are.
Step one is to limit as much as possible the illegal immigrants. Step Two debate the number and other details (age, education, skills) of those we let in.
Of course, it is now impossible to catch, let alone expel, the vast number of illegals that have entered because neither party would address the issue, and it looks like they still won't.
But the real issue is who we let in and how many.
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Can we simp;ly point out how much better it is in Canada and Cuba and Mexico ?
Why do they prefer to be here?
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Because it IS better here...
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Benjamin Franklin fretted over Pennsylvania becoming "a colony of aliens" thanks to German immigrants
And that is really the crux of the issue. It is not about people breaking the law (a misdemeanor) or the plethora of minor issues that people discuss when speaking on immigration. At least give Franklin credit for having the grapes to speak his mind and get to the heart of the matter.
The truth is that many people who are sincerely worried about Hispanic immigration are afraid of their culture being significantly impacted.
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Benjamin Franklin fretted over Pennsylvania becoming "a colony of aliens" thanks to German immigrants
And that is really the crux of the issue. It is not about people breaking the law (a misdemeanor) or the plethora of minor issues that people discuss when speaking on immigration. At least give Franklin credit for having the grapes to speak his mind and get to the heart of the matter.
The truth is that many people who are sincerely worried about Hispanic immigration are afraid of their culture being significantly impacted.
As an American I can choose my culture , I like to eat Pozole and wear a wide brimmed hat , but I havent lost a smigeon of the culture I was raised to.
American Culture is takeing over the world by means of seduction , many countrys have enacted law to restrict the exposure of American entertainment products on their airwaves.
Of all the countrys in the world where you might point to fear of foreighn culture, the USA is the least afflicted.
There are real economic effects to this migration , not all of them positive , there are effects on law enforcement , none of them positive .
I would gladly agree that the law we have needs changeing , but this is far diffrent from saying that wew are better off with lawlessness.
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Of all the countrys in the world where you might point to fear of foreighn culture, the USA is the least afflicted.
Not really. By and large Americans do have a very similar culture (for lack of a better word), at least historically it is tied to being a white anglo-saxon Protestants. We can see the cultural arguments coming to the forefront with "English Only" initiatives and discussions on "assimilation" which is just a shortened term for "cultural assimilation."
We also read polls taken in Mexico where 58% (or so) of the people polled believe that the American Southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico. An objective observer would clearly say, "who cares?" Yet, it lights the fires of those who do see it as an issue of cultural encroachment. We've had radio talk show folks (right-wing) who have said that the border patrol should shoot and kill Mexicans as they cross the border, one even stated that the stench of the corpses would keep away those who come later.
Whether or not you enjoy a particular ethnic food or clothing is immaterial. Whether or not the world is "seduced" by capitalism (which is not authentic to America) is also immaterial and not cultural per se.
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We've had radio talk show folks (right-wing) who have said that the border patrol should shoot and kill Mexicans as they cross the border, one even stated that the stench of the corpses would keep away those who come later.
I sure hope you're not trying to imply this is a majority theme of "Right-wing" talk radio, Js. Who are these folks, and in what context were those phrases used? I've listened to my fair shair of "Right wing" talk radio, and have yet to hear even 1 sentence uttering that kind of garbage. Not once. Border enforcement absolutely, but "shoot to kill"?? NOT Once. What the hell are you listening to?
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Phil Valentine is a popular radio show host here in Nashville: site (http://www.philvalentine.com/).
Brian James, a Phoenix talk show host said this:
What we'll do is randomly pick one night every week where we will kill whoever crosses the border. Step over there and you die. You get to decide whether it's your lucky night or not. I think that would be more fun.
Here is the link (http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4744652)
Note that the radio station stated that they received no complaints.
Lastly, New Jersey radio host Hal Turner said: Kill illegal aliens as they cross into the U.S. When the stench of rotting corpses gets bad enough, the rest will stay away.
Not to mention this:
These filthy, disease ridden, two-legged bags of human debris are too stupid to believe....Just think, America, if we bring enough of them here, they can do for America exactly what they did for Mexico! Turn our whole country into a crime-ridden, drug infested slum....These people are sub-human. I would love it if folks who do have such weapons, used them on the crowds on April 10 [at immigration rallies]. I advocate machine gunning these invaders to death at their rallies!
I never said that this was a majority view, just that it is evidence of what I believe is more at the heart of the matter.
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Phil Valentine is a popular radio show host here in Nashville:
Brian James, a Phoenix talk show host said this:
Lastly, New Jersey radio host Hal Turner said: Not to mention this:
Ahh, 3 fellas I've never heard of, in apparently very localized markets. And appropriately there were complaints.
I never said that this was a majority view, just that it is evidence of what I believe is more at the heart of the matter.
Excuse me? The "heart of Right Wing Radio"? The "heart" of what supporters of Immigration enforcement believe? What exactly is the "heart of the matter"? As I suggested Js, try to be a tad more careful with your innuendo
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What exactly is the "heart of the matter"?
A fear of cultural encroachment.
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What exactly is the "heart of the matter"?
A fear of cultural encroachment.
A legitimate one by the way
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A legitimate one by the way
Explain, please?
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Of all the countrys in the world where you might point to fear of foreighn culture, the USA is the least afflicted.
Not really. By and large Americans do have a very similar culture (for lack of a better word), at least historically it is tied to being a white anglo-saxon Protestants. We can see the cultural arguments coming to the forefront with "English Only" initiatives and discussions on "assimilation" which is just a shortened term for "cultural assimilation."
We also read polls taken in Mexico where 58% (or so) of the people polled believe that the American Southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico. An objective observer would clearly say, "who cares?" Yet, it lights the fires of those who do see it as an issue of cultural encroachment. We've had radio talk show folks (right-wing) who have said that the border patrol should shoot and kill Mexicans as they cross the border, one even stated that the stench of the corpses would keep away those who come later.
Whether or not you enjoy a particular ethnic food or clothing is immaterial. Whether or not the world is "seduced" by capitalism (which is not authentic to America) is also immaterial and not cultural per se.
Capitolism is cultural ?
I had no idea.
In France there is an adademe devoted to preventing French language from being corrupted by adzorption of English, English needs no such protection nez pah?
I havent been to Europe lately when I was there everyone in Spain was talking about who shot JR , whether Capitolism is cultural or not , that is not the part that I considered seductive.
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Capitolism is cultural ?
I had no idea.
I think that if you read what I said once more, you'll see that I said capitalism is not cultural.
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A legitimate one by the way
Explain, please?
It used to be people came here to America, to be Americans. It used to be immigrants went thru whatever legal requirements were mandated in order for them to become Americans, and they were proud of that title. It used to be immigrants embraced what it was to be American, and saw themsevles as Americans 1st, and whatever country they came from a close 2nd, but that they came here to be American. I can't count how many stories I heard coming from the mouths of older immigrants from all over the globe, citing precisely that.
That no longer seems to be the case. One could even argue that its a mindset that's actually discouraged, if not ostracized. That's the cultural encroachment I and millions of others are noting.
That also in no way supports, advocates or even condones the hyperbolic shock jock garbage you were referring to in your general use of "Right Wing" talk radio.
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It used to be people came here to America, to be Americans.
Was that true of the Chinese?
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Capitolism is cultural ?
I had no idea.
I think that if you read what I said once more, you'll see that I said capitalism is not cultural.
I will try to read more carefully .
But why did you bring up capitolism?
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It used to be people came here to America, to be Americans.
Was that true of the Chinese?
Those that came here willingly, wanting to become Americans, absolutely. That wouldn't be true of the slave labor and those forced one way or another to come here to america to work cheap
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In France there is an adademe devoted to preventing French language from being corrupted by adzorption of English, English needs no such protection nez pah?
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll
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Quote
It used to be people came here to America, to be Americans.
Was that true of the Chinese?
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only to those who we`re allowed
remember till 1965 or 67
chinese we`re not allowed to be citizens of the united states
i think it was called the chinese exclusionary act
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remember till 1965 or 67
chinese we`re not allowed to be citizens of the united states
i think it was called the chinese exclusionary act
That was repealed in 1943.
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Quote
It used to be people came here to America, to be Americans.
Was that true of the Chinese?
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only to those who we`re allowed
remember till 1965 or 67 chinese we`re not allowed to be citizens of the united states
i think it was called the chinese exclusionary act
No one said America was perfect. And as Ami has pointed out, was repealed back in the 40's.
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but strangely it wasn`t til 20 years later any large scale immigration started for the chinese.
which is probly why i got 1965 as the date