Author Topic: So what do we do about Mubarak?  (Read 2906 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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So what do we do about Mubarak?
« on: January 28, 2011, 02:06:26 PM »
The people of Egypt have had to deal with the corruption of Hosni Mubarak for over 30 years. The average Egyptian has to live in less than $2.00 per day. Young people who study and graduate with university degrees cannot get jobs, cannot marry, cannot progress in any way. It is very hard to imagine a less deserving leader than ancient Hosni Mubarak.

So should the US continue to support this goon? Should we allow him to hold Muhammad Elbaradei under arrest, or should we pressure them to let him go? Should we support Mubarak's plan to put his son in power?

Supposedly, we invaded Iraq in order to bring democracy to the Arab world, but Iraq is barely democratic, and the major impetus for democracy occurred in Tunisia, a nation that the US mostly leaves under the French influence.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2011, 02:18:54 PM »
Good question.

How does regime change in Egypt play into the larger geopolitical picture of the Middle East and its peace process?

Who are the power players and what are the likely outcomes of their ascendancy?


Kramer

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2011, 04:26:48 PM »
The people of Egypt have had to deal with the corruption of Hosni Mubarak for over 30 years. The average Egyptian has to live in less than $2.00 per day. Young people who study and graduate with university degrees cannot get jobs, cannot marry, cannot progress in any way. It is very hard to imagine a less deserving leader than ancient Hosni Mubarak.

So should the US continue to support this goon? Should we allow him to hold Muhammad Elbaradei under arrest, or should we pressure them to let him go? Should we support Mubarak's plan to put his son in power?

Supposedly, we invaded Iraq in order to bring democracy to the Arab world, but Iraq is barely democratic, and the major impetus for democracy occurred in Tunisia, a nation that the US mostly leaves under the French influence.



we do nothing

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2011, 05:19:09 PM »
BT....in my mind it "depends"

depends on who takes over...

we have a dictator that loves us, is at peace with Israel, doesn't want to
fund terror abroad & doesn't want to point nukes at us, Europe, and Israel

if they end up with a different kind of dictator or Mullah dictators
it would be silly to trade the friendly dictator for a different dictator that hates us,
will fund terror, will build nukes to point at Israel, Europe, and the US

Iran replaced the corrupt Shah but ended up with corrupt undemocratic MullahNazis
shooting protesters in the street...traded bad for bad and we now have a nuke problem

hopefully thats not the only choice

there is some guy that was in exile that came back & is supposedly democratic & popular
so if this guy is democratic, popular with the people, can fight the undemocratic MullahNazis
then there may be hope.


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2011, 07:01:08 PM »
I don't know enough about Egyptian politics to have a good understanding of what is going on.

I do know if you are scared enough to block the internet from your citizens, you probably don't need to be running the country.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2011, 07:58:56 PM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2011, 08:00:35 PM »
I heard that so is the Iranian Government.  What should that tell us?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2011, 08:11:24 PM »
Military takeover in Egypt aired
as army holds fire against curfew violators


DEBKAfile Special Report January 28, 2011, 11:14 PM


Egyptian soldiers welcomed by Cairo protesters

The possibility of the military taking control of the regime on the back of the popular uprising to end Hosni Mubarak's 30-year rule was actively discussed Friday night, Jan. 28, after security forces failed to control anti-government riots for four days. Protesters in Cairo, Alexandria and Suez ignored the nationwide curfew imposed until 0700 Saturday and the soldiers who were called in to enforce it held their fire. Protesters overturning and burning security forces vehicles welcomed the military APCs.

The transfer of rule to the military even for an interim period would shake the entire Middle East to its foundations.  The US stands to lose its senior Arab ally, whereas a new government in Cairo might modify or abandon Egypt's epic 1979 peace treaty with Israel and turn away from the close relations between the two governments.

debkafile reported earlier:

Egyptian protesters tried to storm the foreign ministry in Cairo Friday night, Jan. 28 in defiance of nationwide curfew imposed on the capital, Alexandria and Suez, until 0700 hours Saturday. President Hosni Mubarak called in the army to back the security forces facing swelling numbers of protesters and enforce the curfew. Gunshots were heard near the parliament and thousands of protesters remained out in the streets. At least 10 people were killed and more than a thousand wounded in Cairo during the day. In Suez, 13 are reported dead, 75 injured.

The protesters later set fire to parliament, the national museum and the ruling National Democratic Party whose offices were later looted.

Some soldiers and policemen instead of confronting the rioters reportedly shed their uniforms and joined them.

Mubarak who has not been seen or heard since the crisis began is said to be planning to address the nation soon.

Tanks were seen on the streets of Suez with protesters climbing over them. A least two deaths and dozens of people were injured in the rising turbulence of clashes between security forces and the swelling ranks of protesters across the country. Friday was the fourth and most violent day of the anti-government demonstrations across Egypt, after they were joined by followers of the Muslim Brotherhood.

debkafile's military sources report that calling in the army was President Mubarak's last resort for preserving his regime but it is not without problems. The military may possibly be relied on to impose the curfew on the cities Friday but Saturday, after it is lifted, their absolute obedience to an order to shoot demonstrators cannot be taken for granted ? as was seen Friday night. The president and defense minister are not the most popular figures among the soldiers. And the officers may well calculate that both ageing leaders will not be there for long and the army would take the rap for suppressing a popular revolution by mass killings of civilians. No Egyptian commander would want to be in line for that charge.

During the day in Cairo, the protesters' ranks swelled to tens of thousands when Muslim worshippers poured out of the mosques, many heading for the Nile bridges and fighting to cross over to the government district and Tahrir (Liberation) Square on the other side. Security forces firing rubber bullets and tear gas, using water cannons and charging them with batons, injured hundreds but failed to halt the current. Youths climbed over elite security forces' armored cars trying to pull the men out of the vehicles. Two police stations were torched. The protesters called for President Hosni Mubarak, his family and his ruling elite - ""the corrupt caste" - to step down. Opposition figure Mohamed ElBaradai was placed under house arrest.

American citizens were advised to stay indoors.

In Suez, a protester died in a clash.  In central Alexandria, they set fire to government buildings. Protesters were also on the streets in Suez, Ismailia, Mansoura north of Cairo and northern Sinai. The protest movement Friday was the largest thus far, greatly enlarged by orders to Muslim worshippers to take to the streets from leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood, eight of whom were promptly arrested. The demonstrations appear to be better organized and focused on specific targets, primarily security and police facilities, government buildings and offices of Hosni Mubarak's ruling party.

Earlier, the authorities disrupted internet and telephone services to make it harder to organize demonstrations to no avail. Steps were also taken to impede press coverage of the outbreaks and foreign correspondents prevented from covering the ongoing events.

The White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Friday night in answer to a question that President Barack Obama has not spoken to President Mubarak at any point in the crisis. He said US aid to Egypt would be reviewed in the light of unfolding events, depending on whether the Mubarak regime immediately addressed the legitimate grievances of the Egyptian people by reforms and restrained the military and security forces from violence.

Asked if the US was helping its veteran Arab ally, Gibbs stressed: "The situation must be solved by the Egyptian people" which must be granted "its universal rights."

In Jordan, the Muslim Brotherhood there too called out its followers for anti-government demonstrations.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2011, 08:23:52 PM »
BT....this article from the UK says Obama is backing the people behind the uprising.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html

Quote
The American Embassy in Cairo helped a young dissident attend a US-sponsored summit for activists in New York, while working to keep his identity secret from Egyptian state police.

On his return to Cairo in December 2008, the activist told US diplomats that an alliance of opposition groups had drawn up a plan to overthrow President Hosni Mubarak and install a democratic government in 2011.

So that would have been under Bush.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2011, 08:44:54 PM »
So that would have been under Bush.

I KNEW IT....I F-ing KNEW IT!....LOL
BT you are sooooooooooo predictable.
Yes BT it was started under Bush....Had to make that clear didnt ya?...LOL...dud-in matta who be Prez now!
But who has been President for over two years?......Who BT?
Are you now going to claim Obama knew nothing about this and could not stop an American plan? (if this is true)
Come on BT....I'll play....I wanna see you try to blame Bush more....you know you want too!....Ha Ha He He
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2011, 09:03:12 PM »
I'm not blaming Bush.

I just noticed the date. It would be nice to know who the Bush folks were helping, and how that plays into the bigger picture.

And it would be helpful to know if the Obama administration continued contact with this individual.

This is the meeting the Embassy sent the young man to:

http://info.howcast.com/press/releases/facebook-google-youtube-mtv-howcast-columbia



Christians4LessGvt

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2011, 09:09:50 PM »
i know BT.....I'm just razzin ya.

did this all come from wikileaks?

i am super worried about all this

think about the last month.....
Lebanon seemingly has fallen to Hezbollah
and now chaos in Egypt could lead to IslamoNazis there too....

think of all the problems with terror support and nukes we
have with one Islamic Theocracy (IRAN).....gonna be
fun if we get 3? 5? 12?.....
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2011, 09:10:09 PM »
This is the group the young man belongs to:

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=38588398289&topic=15807#!/group.php?gid=38588398289

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2011, 09:14:40 PM »
BT this guy could be promising...

"expressed interest in becoming an "agent of change and an advocate for democracy" in Egyptian politics"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/28/mohamed-elbaradei_n_815529.html
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: So what do we do about Mubarak?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2011, 09:18:22 PM »
Quote
did this all come from wikileaks?

Yeah

What's weird is that this is a netroots type operation which would be more in the dems style yet the guy was sent while Bush was President. So maybe there is a CIA connection here too.