DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Religious Dick on December 06, 2011, 10:43:43 AM
-
New Ron Paul Ad - BIG DOG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXCZVmQ74OA#ws)
-
Big macho ad, followed by Ron Paul himself, saying how he approved the macho message in his wimpy little girly voice.
Yeah, let's do away with education altogether. Let's do away with every government service. Yeah!
Cool only in the way the idea of a tattoo seems to a drunken sailor and his drunken shipmates.
Elect Ron Paul, live with the horrible mess you have made forever.
Like a dragon tattooed on your face.
-
No one federal bureaucrat in the dept of education teaches a student, Paul say education belongs to the states as it did until 1978.
If you want to debate that idea do so , let's not waste tine debating strawmen.
-
Education is mostly done on a local level. That is why it varies hugely between even neighboring areas.
No school district has to take the Federal government's money.
We need national standards, higher standards in this country. This can only happen if there are national standards. There cannot be national standards without some agency to define them.
No one is going to abolish the Dept. of Education. It is a supremely stupid idea, and it will never happen.\
Paul wants to destroy most government benefits for most people He has NO CHANCE of being elected.
And the ad was more amusing than cool.
\
There is this big macho voice and all this humongeous macho destruction and then wimpy little Paul comes in with his girly Peewee Herman voice and says "'I'm Ron Paul and I approved this message."
-
If the choice was offered, which would we keep?
The Social Security entitlement our elders need and we will.
Or the Education system that is intended to benifit our young and their future?
-
We need national standards, higher standards in this country. This can only happen if there are national standards. There cannot be national standards without some agency to define them.
Why should we expect a national standard to be an improvement ?
Scale doesn't necessacerily improve quality.
-
It's the level of the standards that are important. If you nationalize the level of standards you have a starting point. If the states want to improve on that, fine, but they can't drop bellow it.
Having said that, I must admit that this is an area, one of many of course, I have very little knowledge about. But you don't have to be all that knowledgable to know we need to have an effective educational system in order to compete in the world.
BSB
-
We do not have an effective standard of education in this country, not in the way that Finland or the Netherlands does. We have many standards, one in each school districts. Some are excellent, others are dreadful.
We need a national Dept. of Education. Paul has no adequate plan for improving our educational system(s). Passing the buck to states and school districts has not worked.
-
We do not have an effective standard of education in this country, not in the way that Finland or the Netherlands does.
If the Dept of ED is to set standards at a national level what have they been doing for the last 40 years?
-
They have been gathering data, identifying problems, making suggestions about solving problems, and everything that Congress has given them the authority to do. This is a larger country than Finland and the Netherlands, and a federation of diverse states, rather than a unitary government like those two.
If the Department of Education has not devised standards and imposed them, it is because the Congress has not authorized them to do this. Abolishing the Department of Ed. would make as much sense as shooting your dog for not fetching your slippers after punishing him for touching your slippers. NOT a solution.
We need MORE uniformity between the states, nor less. I have lived in Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, Washington State, Maryland, Virginia and Florida. Many Americans also move around a lot. We need national standards. Abolishing the Dept. of Education makes this much more difficult. It is a way of punishing the teachers for unionizing and voting for Democrats. It sucks.
-
So basically the dept of ed is a jobs program for bureaucratic functionaries who produce no product and make excuses for no results.
Yeah
We should keep them on the payroll
-
Quintessential Big Government, in all its glory
-
They can only do what Congress authorizes them to do. Fort there to be national standards, there needs to be a national office to deal with it.
You are saying hobble the horse and then shoot him because he can't run.That is dumb.
Every nation has a Dept of Education. Every four years some dolt will say that they need to abolish it, and no one ever will managed to do it. Reagan didn't even try, unless you count putting a fool in as Secretary.
Paul has zero chance of becoming president. I say this in hopes that he runs as a Libertarian and you all go vote for him.
The GOP does not seem to have any plan that would actually improve education in this country. All they talk about is busting teachers' unions, firing some unspecified number of "bad teachers" and giving large bonuses to the "best teachers", which means, in reality, rewarding maybe 3-5% of the faculty and giving others COL raises that are equivalent to the inflation rate or less. That will not work. I agree that there are a few bad teachers that should be replaced, but fewer than 1%, and giving some small percent bonuses has an effect more like a lottery than an incentive.
-
Fort there to be national standards, there needs to be a national office to deal with it.
Does it take 40 years to set standards, then have the states monitor those standards?
-
Does it take 40 years to set standards, then have the states monitor those standards?
====================================================
If Congress does not provide the authority for the Dept. of Education to act, it clearly does.
Again, the problem is NOT that there is a Dept. of Education, it is that Congress refuses to give it the authority to act to do what clearly needs to be done. The GOP thinks that the way to improve education is to declare war on the teachers and to give perhaps 2 to 3% of them large bonuses and starve the rest.
-
The GOP thinks that the way to improve education is to declare war on the teachers and to give perhaps 2 to 3% of them large bonuses and starve the rest.
What the frell?? This ability in completely making this kind of AMBE up, is quite an art form
-
That is what they advocate: no raises for the majority and huge bonuses for the select few. Since you are a teacher, you do not follow this, I suppose. The war of teachers is certainly not a hidden one.
-
Congress gave the dept of ed authority to enact and through the states enforce NCLB. And all i heard were excuses from teachers complaining about standards and then teaching to the test or in some cases falsifying results.
-
NCLB was a very flawed program, from what I hear.
-
We need MORE uniformity between the states, nor (sic) less.
I thought the argument against NCLB was that it imposed central standards that are not good for teaching, according to the Democrats.
-
It was the way that it was administered, basing performance on only reading, writing and math tests, that caused school administrators to focus on those things and to ignore the rest.
I do not think that "the Democrats" had any unified position on this.
I don't think it was a total failure, and probably did some good in many places.
-
That is what they advocate: no raises for the majority and huge bonuses for the select few.
Says who?? Name me one prominant Republican politician that's advocates that nonsense
-
It was the way that it was administered, basing performance on only reading, writing and math tests, that caused school administrators to focus on those things and to ignore the rest.
I do not think that "the Democrats" had any unified position on this.
I don't think it was a total failure, and probably did some good in many places.
So there is no accountability at any level. Well hell let's double the number of administrators at the fed level and pay them twice as much.
-
I dd not say there was no accountability. I said they were relying too much on one or two tests. I did not say that they should expand the Dept. of Education, I believe that they need to investigate how other countries raised their standards and try what has worked best thee as well as here. Abolishing the Dept of Education will not improve education, It will make it worse.
Paul has no chance of being elected, and the Dept of Education will not be abolished. I hope it is improved, along with education in this country.
-
It was the way that it was administered, basing performance on only reading, writing and math tests, that caused school administrators to focus on those things and to ignore the rest.
I do not think that "the Democrats" had any unified position on this.
I don't think it was a total failure, and probably did some good in many places.
So a national standard , if poorly administered , can inhibit the excellent no less than it goads the sub par?
-
That is what they advocate: no raises for the majority and huge bonuses for the select few.
Says who?? Name me one prominant Republican politician that advocates that nonsense
Still patiently waiting for some facts to back up the currently ridiculous claim
-
It was the way that it was administered, basing performance on only reading, writing and math tests, that caused school administrators to focus on those things and to ignore the rest.
There were also requirements for science tests. And more subject based tests in high school.
And I still don't understand how 1 test a year is a big deal...
-
One test is not going to serve to ascertain how much has been learned for the entire year.
NCLB is better than nothing, but it needs a whole lot of improvement.
I am not referring to any specific Republican plan, just what actually happens when some school board tries to divvy up the money among the teachers. They are told to reward the best, but have insufficient funds to reward more than a few, leaving less for raises for all the rest.
-
So the asanine claim that The GOP thinks that the way to improve education is to declare war on the teachers and to give perhaps 2 to 3% of them large bonuses and starve the rest, was pure made up BS. Gotcha
-
One test is not going to serve to ascertain how much has been learned for the entire year.
It serves to determine if the student is at grade level, does it not?
-
It may serve to do this as it applies to a group of students on average, for the subjects tested. Some students will surely be having a bad day and they will underperform on the test, and since this is the only test, the information will be inacccurate regarding that student.
I am not against standardized tests, but to rely on only ONE test is inadequate. It is better than no test at all.