L'Affaire Spitzer

[Universe Prince]

From the interview to which I earlier gave a link:

Reason: Prostitution in the developing world has been getting a lot of attention lately, much of it because of the effort to stamp out human trafficking. Has the attention been positive or negative for sex workers? Quan: The movement led by prostitutes themselves is really concerned about trafficking. But we are concerned about it in a larger human rights context. We are really upset about people who use trafficking to attack the whole concept of prostitution. I think there is a lot of unexamined hatred toward prostitutes that gets expressed as compassion. Reason: So the issues of voluntary prostitution and human trafficking are being conflated. Quan: They're being exploited. People are exploiting, psychologically and emotionally, the issue of trafficking to turn a human rights problem into an anti-prostitution agenda. Reason: Is the argument that prostitution is necessarily exploitive? Quan: I'm not concerned that prostitution is exploitive. What does exploitive mean? People exploit minerals and their own power and each other. Exploitation is a fairly neutral term. The question is whether somebody is being abused or harmed physically. These people are trying to cast prostitution as something evil rather than something exploitive. Prostitutes exploit their clients all the time. And they're often exploited by madams. The idea of clients exploiting anyone is kind of laughable. It's like someone saying that someone running a shoe store is exploiting the labor of an employee. That's how businesses run. It's a fairly neutral term. The question is whether it's abusive. Reason: And the assumption is that it is always abusive? Quan: They are trying to say prostitution is a human rights violation. It's an absurd idea to me. Anti-prostitution activists have found an issue, human trafficking, that they can exploit and that pushes a lot of peoples' buttons. We're living in a time when we don't think slavery is acceptable. Which I would agree with. But people who are naive, who have never worked with a prostitute or hired a prostitute, people who have no natural organic contact with prostitutes, are easily manipulated into believing anything about prostitution.

[Religious Dick]

If I could find the Penn & Teller: Bullshit episode about prostitution, I would.

Let me help you out....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBmbZmrsz6U[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCWSY5nYZAI[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFVM15Wtfx8[/youtube]

[Christians4LessGvt]

[sirs]

While Pooch & Prince make exceedingly good arguements (AGAIN , my connection with healthcare and grasp of the medical field, prompts me to side with Pooch on this one.  STD's are prevelent.  I heard a study that HALF (did I mention HALF?) of the teenage Black girls aged something like 14-19 in this country have had an STD.  And when it's extended to all races, it's literally 1/4th of all teenage girls in that age range have or have had an STD.  And it's not specific to women.  Men having flings as well, can spread it as well.  They get spread, and the "victim" most often is not aware of what they just got with their fling.  This tangent alone makes me support the conintuance of keeping this occupation illegal. 

But states can do what they will, as I don't see this as a federal matter

[Christians4LessGvt]

oh come on sirs
whats wrong with having airport restrooms full of disgusting people
soliciting random anonymous sex from strangers?
what a wholesome environment that will be for traveling families
walk into the restooom at O'Hare and have a bunch of slimeballs
staring down at your little kids while they wipe semen off themselves
yeah, hey it's a free country dude!
 

[Universe Prince]

Let me help you out....

Thanks much. For some reason, none of my searches turned that up. I appreciate the help.

[Universe Prince]

oh come on sirs
whats wrong with having airport restrooms full of disgusting people
soliciting random anonymous sex from strangers?
what a wholesome environment that will be for traveling families
walk into the restooom at O'Hare and have a bunch of slimeballs
staring down at your little kids while they wipe semen off themselves
yeah, hey it's a free country dude!

I don't recall anyone arguing that airport restrooms should be full of disgusting people et cetera. You seem to be making the common mistake of confusing support for individual liberty with support for the bad scenarios you imagine. You also seem to be making the mistake of thinking that support for individual liberty means believing there should be no rules ever anywhere. Both mistakes are completely wrong.

[Universe Prince]

STD's are prevelent.  I heard a study that HALF (did I mention HALF?) of the teenage Black girls aged something like 14-19 in this country have had an STD.  And when it's extended to all races, it's literally 1/4th of all teenage girls in that age range have or have had an STD.  And it's not specific to women.  Men having flings as well, can spread it as well.  They get spread, and the "victim" most often is not aware of what they just got with their fling.

I confess, I don't know why this is a reason to keep prostitution illegal.

[kimba1]

well

if it`s legal, condoms will be required

illegal as it is now ,strangely encourage non-condom use.
people keep forgetting the condom is the most complicated to use form of birth-control.
so it`s super easy to get folks to not use it.

[Christians4LessGvt]

I don't recall anyone arguing that airport restrooms should be full of disgusting people et cetera.

So you do agree that Larry Craig should resign for soliciting anonymous reckless sex in a public bathroom?
And you agree sex in a public bathroom should be illegal?

You seem to be making the common mistake of confusing support for
individual liberty with support for the bad scenarios you imagine.

Not at all, I only know as a society loses all outrage for abhorent behavior the results
are clearly seen in the headlines on a daily basis.

You also seem to be making the mistake of thinking that support for individual liberty
means believing there should be no rules ever anywhere. Both mistakes are completely wrong.

Wrong again.
I was responding to XO saying that soliciting sex in an airport restoom should not be against the law.
XO page 2 of this thread referring to Larry Criag: "because he didn't actually DO anything that should be considered illegal"

[Rich]

Are Penn & Teller now considered authorities in this forum?

If so, maybe it is time to shut it down.

 

[Universe Prince]

Are Penn & Teller now considered authorities in this forum?

No, I wouldn't call them authorities. But then the point was not to see Penn & Teller. The point was to use the episode to show Pooch a prostitute who enjoys her work, which he specifically asked to see. (That sounds really dirty, but I don't how to phrase it so it doesn't.)

[Rich]

Lot's of them enjoy their work, at first. If you've ever seen any of the street walker documentaries on HBO you know what I mean.

I heard Spitzers wife wanted him to fight on. Unbelievable.

[modestyblase]

I am sooo disappointed that Spitzer is resigning. 

Cynthia - I'm bright enough to know that public figures-anyone, actually-should NOT be pedestalized. Appreciate their positives, acknowledge what you can learn from them, allow them to inspire, but don't act surprised when their imperfections show.

Sirs - I can't speak of knowledge of street-level prostitution, but from what I can glean via the internet it is actually safer to have meaningless consensual sex with a prostitute than with someone you meet at a bar. Anyone who has chosen to be in the profession will do their best to take care of themselves, which generally means testing, condom use, etc. After all, once your student loans are paid off do you really want HIV or HPV or whatever following you your whole life? Think about it.

[sirs]

STD's are prevelent.  .... They get spread, and the "victim" most often is not aware of what they just got with their fling.

I confess, I don't know why this is a reason to keep prostitution illegal.

Ummm, you're joking, right.  Trying to prevent the spread of disease, by making a prime mode of its transmission illegal, you don't get?? 

In other words, it's not a victimless crime.  The victim being the unknowing recipient of an STD, that then has to be treated, or risk infecting countless others......or worse