DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on May 11, 2016, 03:17:23 PM

Title: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 11, 2016, 03:17:23 PM: Via Twitter:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiJXcheUkAEEBg5.jpg:medium)
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 11, 2016, 03:23:12 PM: Yeah, right!
This egomanianical turkey wants to be president, let him spend his own damned money!

PS that is AWAKENED. There is no awoken.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 11, 2016, 03:26:39 PM: (http://cdn.tegna-tv.com/media/2016/05/09/GGM/MilitaryTimes/635983985428824864-Election-Poll-Charts-Web-Trump-Sanders-Clinton.jpg)

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/election/2016/05/09/military-times-survey-donald-trump-beats-hillary-clinton/84132402/
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 11, 2016, 03:28:15 PM: Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 11, 2016, 03:23:12 PM
There is no awoken

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/awoken

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 11, 2016, 07:57:23 PM: The military does not run this country, fortunately.

Trump is not a giant. He is a feckless oaf, a Brobdingnagian buffoon.

Who is dumb enough to send charity to a bazillionaire?

If New York's most sane billionaire, Michael Bloomberg were to run for president, I might vote for him, but I sure would not send him money.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 12, 2016, 09:35:42 PM: Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 11, 2016, 07:57:23 PM
......................, a Brobdingnagian buffoon.

..............

I love Swift.

Brobdingnagian people were noble giants were they not?
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 12, 2016, 09:38:33 PM: Don't get too happy , Clinton has plenty to spend on very slick advertisement.

Apparently that a lot of the money is steaming hot off the griddle of Wall street doesn't impress Democrats who cannot believe any Democrat can be in big businesses pocket.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 13, 2016, 05:49:36 AM: I still insist that Trump is going to have a hard time raising money from people who love him because the think that being rich is being incorruptible.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 15, 2016, 09:34:37 AM: Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 13, 2016, 05:49:36 AM
I still insist that Trump is going to have a hard time raising money from people who love him because the think that being rich is being incorruptible.

This is no problem for Hillary Clinton, she can still get plenty of cash from Saudis , Chinese and superbanks.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 15, 2016, 01:09:20 PM: So there you have it. Poor Trump the billionaire will be outspent unless he cashes in some assets. Because he is not likely to get a lot of money from the Archie Bunker types that constitute a lot of his constituency.

Hillary can get money because of that stupid "Citizens United" decision that the idiot Scalia Court made. The rightwingers will be victims of their own stupid appointees. serves them bloody right!

If speech is money, then Citizens United lets the Sheiks of Araby have all the speech they need.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 15, 2016, 07:57:04 PM: So, you are not surprised that you like a candidate in the pocket of big banks and international big business and monarchists better than you like a candidate who is not?

You are not surprised?
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 15, 2016, 08:15:14 PM: I like Bernie more than Hillary has no clue as to WHAT he believes.

If Trump gave a damn about American workers, he would have had his neckties sewn in the US. It could not have cost him more than 50¢ per necktie on labor for a tie made to sell for $50. So let's see his anti Chinese demogogery7 for what it is. The truth is, Trump wants to be president for the same reason that Cinderella's stepmother wanted to be recognized as the fairest of them all. It's all about The Donald. It always has been. Trophy wives, his name in lights, his constant bragging and need for attention. Trump is a sicko and I do not think we should sacrifice our country to satisfy his mental illness.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 15, 2016, 08:28:04 PM: Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 15, 2016, 08:15:14 PM
I like Bernie more than Hillary has no clue as to WHAT he believes.

If Trump gave a damn about American workers, he would have had his neckties sewn in the US. It could not have cost him more than 50¢ per necktie on labor for a tie made to sell for $50. So let's see his anti Chinese demogogery7 for what it is. The truth is, Trump wants to be president for the same reason that Cinderella's stepmother wanted to be recognized as the fairest of them all. It's all about The Donald. It always has been. Trophy wives, his name in lights, his constant bragging and need for attention. Trump is a sicko and I do not think we should sacrifice our country to satisfy his mental illness.

I am wearing a shirt made in Vietnam and pants made in Belize myself, in this present world this is hard to avoid.

What is Hillary planning to do to open more sewing jobs in the US?

My Wife had a job sewing shirts a long time ago, the cost of shipping was higher then.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 16, 2016, 05:53:36 PM: The labor involved in making a necktie at $9.00 an hour would be about 75¢. To do this in China might have saved him 60¢ at most. These were neckties made to retail for $50.00.
Trump does not care about much of anything but himself.

If your pants were made in Belize, most likely they was not made by a Belizean. Guatemalans and Haitians tend to do most of the needlework there.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 17, 2016, 07:16:34 PM: There is a lot of pressure to cut costs in the garment industry.

Sewing plants tend to last until the average wage where they are rises to near the global average, then the whole thing will move somewhere else where the expected wage is pretty low.

We are getting a real bargain, and the business is seeking the lowest of the low wages to pay.

There is such a thing as an American made tie, but who exactly is motivated to buy them?
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 18, 2016, 12:33:30 AM: What has happened in the garment industry is what is called the "race to the bottom" in which competition drives the price of labor lower and lower.

Americans used to look for the Union Label. Then they looked for "Made in USA", which could mean made by Chinese women living in a barracks and working in a sweatshop in the Marianas or in American Samoa, or an island that renamed itself 'Usa". Or perhaps just a bogus label,

The fact remains that Trump did not care enough to even sacrifice 60 miserable cents to benefit Americans. He does not give a shit about anyone but himself.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 18, 2016, 06:03:41 AM: Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 18, 2016, 12:33:30 AM
What has happened in the garment industry is what is called the "race to the bottom" in which competition drives the price of labor lower and lower.

This does not describe it well.

Generally , wherever the labor is very cheap, garments will be sewn.

When economic improvement drives up the price of labor garment assembly runs off twards the less pay.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 19, 2016, 06:20:46 AM: It is a race to the bottom, as entrepreneurs, sweatshop owners will start the process by offering lower wages, generally for piecework, and will expand the operation as they find more desperate employees.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 20, 2016, 05:54:46 AM: Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 19, 2016, 06:20:46 AM
It is a race to the bottom, as entrepreneurs, sweatshop owners will start the process by offering lower wages, generally for piecework, and will expand the operation as they find more desperate employees.

It is a race to wherever the bottom is, globally.

When the sewing industry moves away , it is because the lowest is no longer here.

Loosing it is inevitable , unless a bottom is maintained.

Seeing it move out , is bad news , and good news.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 20, 2016, 08:56:09 AM: It is not good news for any of the people deprived of a job.

It was hardly good news in Bangla Desh for those workers killed when they were locked in a building that collapsed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Savar_building_collapse

There is a race to the bottom, and it benefits the capitalist investors.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 20, 2016, 08:33:15 PM: This race to the bottom benefits mostly those workers that are absolutely at the bottom, they do not loose these jobs until there is a new bottom somewhere else.

This usually happens when the economy improves too much to fill a plant with hard working dollar an hour workers.

I know that the Triangle fire has been repeated many times, the sad part of the bottom is that weak or corrupt government comes along with poverty quite a lot, there is a government role in setting safety standards , it just doesn't happen well where a bribe is cheaper or where the government goes overboard with it.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 20, 2016, 09:41:18 PM: The workers are hardly benefited when they die, Being killed is not beneficial to anyone.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 20, 2016, 11:50:26 PM: Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 20, 2016, 09:41:18 PM
The workers are hardly benefited when they die, Being killed is not beneficial to anyone.

The workers weigh this in the terms they are working under, they choose to work in bad conditions because the alternative is unemployment , which is hunger in some parts of the world .

Conducting business and distributing pay the workers often spend well and send their children to school , with a lunch.

When fed children grow up knowing how to read , the population grows a lot more engineers and doctors than when unfed children grow up unschooled.

So even the most modest pay for the most dirty and dangerous work is better than no work, an improving economy increases the demand for safety along with the demand for honest regulation of industry.

Then when there are alternative jobs to be had , these racing to the bottom jobs run somewhere else, somewhere that these very modest jobs are the best to be had.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 21, 2016, 12:23:31 AM: It is exploitation to hire people forced by poverty and hunger to work in crumbling buildings. And of course, the doors were locked shut by management, just as at the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 21, 2016, 09:37:08 AM: There is a government role in the construction of every building big enough to call a building , there should be regulation such that the building is not a certain deathtrap.

That this happens over again now and then proves that there are foolish people with money.

The race away from the bottom is what is happens to the employees of these sewing factories.

The race to find a new bottom , a place unspoiled yet with employment, is what is happening to the owners of these plants.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 21, 2016, 11:54:08 AM: Bangladesh is a peasant society with too many peasants for the land available. Global warming will reduce the land even more. In the old days, the infant mortality rate was very high and thanks to antibiotics, more children are reaching the age of reproduction. People have been starving there for generations, even when there were far fewer people.

The people who owned the collapsed factory ran off and have not been caught. Bangladesh is too poor to afford honest building inspectors.
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Plane on May 22, 2016, 11:31:05 AM: Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on May 21, 2016, 11:54:08 AM
.........................

The people who owned the collapsed factory ran off and have not been caught. Bangladesh is too poor to afford honest building inspectors.

That is probably true, and will be difficult for them to correct.

This does not mean that there should be no jobs at all.

The workers are already aware of the conditions , some probably do choose to not work in an unsafe building. But if in their judgment the alternative is worse they accept the risk.

I wonder if a wiser manufacturer might demand better quality from the contractors he hires to build . Or are the manufacturers just as trapped by having unrealistic alternatives ?

If a shirt maker were to build an up to code building , would he be outcompeted by another shirt maker , one that simply paid the graft and got his building sooner and cheaper?
Title: Re: The Globalist/Left has awoken a giant!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 22, 2016, 05:31:08 PM: Capitalism is to blame for all the evils of the race to the bottom. Marx said it was an evil system when not controlled by government, and he was right.
Capitalism killed the workers in the Triangle shirtwaist fire as well as the Bengali workers in the Bangladesh building collapse.