DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Michael Tee on May 16, 2007, 04:22:50 PM
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"And I know why you don't like the Jew," he went on. "He can make more money accidentally than you can make on purpose."
source Time Magazine; exact quote
Fuck this guy. He'll meet some interesting people in Hell, that's for sure. He and Joe Goebbels should really hit it off.
And fuck CNN too. They can cover up for this guy all they like, try to preserve their (nonexistent) rep for fairness by showing "all sides" but with the only anti-Falwell opinion in the mouth of a foreigner - - as if there were't a single American out of a population of 300 million with a bad word to say about him.
Why? I figure the powers that be can use guys like Falwell. They come and they go - - some before their time. This one probably ate himself to death, but there's always more where he came from. He's useful to have around, and they like to create a synthetic air of loving, fond and almost universal tolerance for the guy. Even from groups that he's trashed.
Last night they focused on his "sincerity" - - Larry King especially kept asking everyone if Falwell meant what he said, and like pre-programmed robots all his guests spit out the official response - - Yes, he wasn't a phony, he was the real thing, he really believed. (As if you couldn't say the same about Adolf Hitler, Mullah Omar, or Osama Bin Laden.) The other thing was that he "didn't have a mean bone in his body," for which the huckster of choice was Al Sharpton. "Even when he disagreed strongly with you, it was never personal, he was still friendly and warm." WTF did they expect, he'd lean over and bite into Sharpton's jugular in the course of a heated debate?
Falwell and his ilk can keep a lotta people quiet and contented who might otherwise turn out to be wildly discontented citizens, assertive employees, antiwar activists (gasp!) or similar undesirables. The last thing the ruling class wants to see is the respect for its icons eroded, their sphere of influence shrunken. Ridcule and contempt will do that. So the atmosphere to strive for is not that these guys were on the same page as everybody else, but that regardless of how many Americans agreed or disagreed with them, they were universally respected, even by their enemies and NOBODY (except for that one Limey snob, probably a fag) had one bad thing to say about him. No real American would ever say nasty things about him.
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You got the context all wrong, Mickey:
The political crusade of the Moral Majority, Falwell says, must transcend racial and religious lines. He wants to rally "Jews, Catholics, Protestants and nothings" who share his social views. He has always been an ardent Zionist, and preaches that one reason God favors America is that America "has blessed the Jew—his chosen people." But when he got to that subject at the Richmond rally, he admitted that some in his audience might still be antiSemitic. "And I know why you don't like the Jew," he went on. "He can make more money accidentally than you can make on purpose."
He was addressing anti-semitism and trying to change it.
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Just as I thought. Thanks, RR. Yet our own self-hating Jew (see his comments about Israel, in effect calling them transgressors and butchers) sees fit to wax triumphantly self-righteous about a minor matter misconstrued at that.
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<<He was addressing anti-semitism and trying to change it.>>
Yeah by perpetuating and legitimizing one of the principal stereotypes that keeps it going strong. And that's not the ONLY anti-Semitic sentiment he's expressed either.
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<<Yet our own self-hating Jew (see his comments about Israel, in effect calling them transgressors and butchers) sees fit to wax triumphantly self-righteous about a minor matter misconstrued at that.>>
Better find yourself a new bag of metaphors, domer. That "self-hating Jew" cliche is about as effective in silencing Jewish criticism of right-wing Zionist atrocities and war crimes as your tired old "anti-American" BS is in silencing legitimate criticism of U.S. atrocities and war crimes.
All you're doing by resorting to slimy, hackneyed ad hominem invective is highlighting your own intellectual bankruptcy and the inability of you and others who think like you to answer fact and logic with fact and logic. Sad. You sold out and you can't even find intellectual cover for the sell-out.
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Yeah by perpetuating and legitimizing one of the principal stereotypes that keeps it going strong.
Where did he legitimize the stereotype? More importantly where did he say he agreed with the stereotype? Far as i can see he simply acknowledged the existence of the stereotype.
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May I suggest another construction. Regardless of origin, the acquisition of culturally-traceable skills and aptitudes should be recognized when germane by honest interlocutors. What is the harm in calling a Swiss meticulous (watchmaking) or discreet and responsible (banking) if that is indeed the case. While I haven't done a study, nor am I likely to, on the ability of Jews to make money, my casual travels about the New York metropolitan area tell me that Jews are more affluent as a group than most others, and crucially, that this is a GOOD thing. Shorn of the historical baggage where such a trait was taken as a synechdoche (a part representing and consuming the whole) for avariciousness, today in a full-bodied appreciation of Jewish contributions to society -- including, very importantly, charitable works and charitable giving -- the ability to handle money well is not only prized but celebrated.
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<<More importantly where did he say he agreed with the stereotype? Far as i can see he simply acknowledged the existence of the stereotype. >>
That's the whole point! He never said it was a stereotype. He presented it as a fact. "Some of you don't like the Jews. I know why you don't like the Jews. It's because they make money."
He didn't say "It's because YOU THINK they make money." He didn't say "It's due to this false stereotype that they make money."
He didn't invite them to question the stereotype. It was stated as fact and the only way it could have been perceived (by his flock of Neanderthals) was as fact.
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Hardly seems like he needs to defend his remarks or take a stance when he is being very inclusive in his recruiting of those who agree with his social views. So perhaps it is your take versus his actions.
He wants to rally "Jews, Catholics, Protestants and nothings" who share his social views
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Well, I gotta admit - - I figured I'd be able to round up a shitload of anti-Semitic remarks by Falwell, but there was only one other biggie - - that the antichrist was alive today and was a adult Jewish man.
There was a lot of "religious antisemitism" - - "theological" questions,like could a Jew get into Heaven if he didn't accept Jesus? but I don't count that as antisemitism, it's just his version of doctrine and he's certainly as entitled to his religious opinion as anyone else. Even the "Jewish antichrist" remark could be taken as an exposition of dogma.
The money-making Jew stereotype was bad, but of course there are much worse. the antichrist comment was so weird that it was actually kind of funny.
The anti-gay stuff was pretty vile, but the gays can speak out for themselves.
Maybe he's not frying in hell with Josef Goebbels after all.
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I have a friend from high school who is on a list of so called "self-hating Jews" because he works for peace in that region.
He is an observant (I think Orthodox) Jew.
He's no more self-hating than you are, Domer. He is not a Zionist, and that's why people put him on this list.
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Lanya finally finds a voice. Hurray!
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I am so not mourning Falwell.
The only think I can mourn is when I realize that some other nincompoop will step up to fill his shoes and spew the same hate :(
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All stereotypes have an element of truth in them. Most Irish are not drunks, but the per capita alcohol consumption is higher for them than say, the English. Thais are NEVER stereotyped as good at basketball, largely because they are a lot shorter than American Blacks.
Perhaps because of anti-Semitism, Jews tend to be self-employed, rather than working for other people. Because they were banned in much of Europe from farming, they came to the US with experience in living in the city, and therefore knew more about life in the city than Polish peasants, ex-Southern sharecroppers, or Swedish fishermen.
Being self-employed is one way of 'cutting out the middle man', and on the whole, tends to produce a higher income than working for a salary.
Because of the religious traditions, Jews came to the US with a much higher degree of literacy. Most were bilingual (German-Yiddish, Russian-Yiddish) and the third language is always more east to learn than the second.
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<< have a friend from high school who is on a list of so called "self-hating Jews" because he works for peace in that region.
<<He is an observant (I think Orthodox) Jew.
<<He's no more self-hating than you are, Domer. He is not a Zionist, and that's why people put him on this list. >>
"Self-hating Jew" is an exact counterpart of "anti-American" or "America-hating" or "middle-class white guilt" - -a right-wing fascist smear which instantly deflects the argument from the discussion at hand - - Israeli crimes and atrocities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, U.S. crimes and atrocities in Viet Nam, Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, Panama, etc. or racial relations in the U.S.
They're all just constructs of petty-minded, intellectually bankrupt individuals who have run out of fact and logic but still want to win the argument without them. Usually they're best ignored, but it's not in my nature to ignore personal insults. In theory you are the bigger man if you don't descend to their level but in practice you're a schmuck if you just let it pass.
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Either way, Mike, most of the time, you're a schmuck anyway.
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We're all schmucks, domer. Some of us have figured it out and some of us never will.