DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Xavier_Onassis on July 14, 2015, 12:13:00 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/13/us/garner-nyc-settlement/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/13/us/garner-nyc-settlement/index.html)
This was the guy subdued and strangled for selling single cigarettes.
I am sure you righties will be thrilled to hear this, since I think you would prefer that he get nothing, because he was disobedient.
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It is close to a year since this incident.
I feel a lot of sympathy for Eric Gardener , he was killed in an enforcement of an unfair tax.
If I were him , I might also refuse to pay, but the place to exchange arguments isn't the sidewalk where the police are empowered to grapple you and are expected to enforce the will of the people as enacted by the legislature.
It is kinda hard to believe sometimes that the law is an accurate reflection of the peoples will, especially when something like this happens.
But here we are, taxing Eric Gardener to death, literally.
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All the cop had to do was stop choking him when he heard Garner say "I can't breathe".
No one should be killed for selling single cigarettes or for refusing to be cuffed.
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And one more time....he wasn't killed for selling illegal cigarettes or for resisting arrest. It was a tragic accident brought about by his not complying with officer's instructions ::)
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A Jury award of $5.9 million says that the American system of Justice says you are full of shit, sirs.
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All the cop had to do was stop choking him when he heard Garner say "I can't breathe".
No one should be killed for selling single cigarettes or for refusing to be cuffed.
STOP!
Have you thought about this?
I have been choked , I was not speaking at the time , but I really wanted to.
That Policeman has proof on tape that he did not choke Eric Gardener even a little bit.
Now this is not to say that the roughness of the arrest did not contribute to the shortness of breath and other symptoms that lead soon to Mr Gardeners death. It probably did, but the police worked as they are trained and ordered to work.
How does the legislature get out from under responsibility for setting Mr Gardener up for this , and the policemen too? Did they think that no one would ever die from rough handling as they made it unavoidable that a lot of people would be arrested for the sake of a tax?
WE have a lot of laws and a lot of regulations , and these are not all harmless.
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Again, the cop was clearly responsible for this guy's death, and the jury agrees.
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A Jury award of $5.9 million says that the American system of Justice says you are full of shit, sirs.
Did you not read the very article you posted?
There was no jury involved in this settlement.
In fact no officer was even indicted.
This was a pre-trial agreement.
I guess NY decided the trial could cost more than the settlement offered to the half-wit's family.
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Whatever the case, the cop was wrong and the city had to pay for his incompetence.
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Again, the cop was clearly responsible for this guy's death, and the jury agrees.
No.
The Jury has made the State and City responsible , and I concur with them.
Do you think that this policeman is going to pony up almost six million?
The legislature really ought to make this payment out of their pay.
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A Jury award of $5.9 million says that the American system of Justice says you are full of shit, sirs.
Speaking of full of crap, this was not jury, the estate was not awarded anything for anything. Do you not even read what you post? This was an OUT OF COURT SETTLEMENT, decided by a few city officials. oy vey. ::)
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Hmmm...
I missed that.
Do you suppose that a jury would have been any less generous?
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We'll never know. But the erroneous implication that a supposed jury awarded the estate with a declaration that he was killed for selling illegal cigarettes and resisting arrest is what's so full of AMBE. This was the city's decision to put this to rest without acknowledging any criminal wrong doing by anyone
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Would you prefer that they arrest the cop for malfeasance, or send Garner's corpse to prison, sirs?
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Stop being an idiot.
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Well, you complain about how no one was convicted of anything in this affair so wistfully, I was simply naming the alternatives. Perhaps they should chisel something about Garner peddling illegal untaxed cigarettes on his tombstone. Would THAT make you happy?
The Cith of New York clearly acknowledges that its employee the cop did something wrong. They are not wont to hand out $5.9 million to just anyone.
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I wasn't complaining about anything. It's merely a fact that no one was indicted, charged, much less convicted for what amounts to a tragic accident. Yet, you're the one who FALSELY tried to claim that some Jury awarded Eric Gerner's family 6 million for killing him over selling illegal cigaretters & resisting arrest. Then you try to cover it up with moronic hyperbole about what I'd like seen done with Gerner's body
So stop acting like an idiot with that garbage. Yes, the city, NOT a jury, acknowledged a tragic accident, and to keep the race hustlers from inciting more violence, settled out of court, to make it all go away
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"cover it up"? What the eff is wrong with you?
The city of New York knows that this idiot cop screwed up, and they are paying millions because of this.
I have nothing to do with this. How could I cover anything up?
The cop killed him or at least caused him to die.
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Yea, covering up your FALSE narrative (not anything to do with NYC) that this was some jury award for a cop killing someone for resisting arrest & selling illegal cigarettes. It was nothing of the sort. And when you got called on it, out came deflection 101 to argue some asanine notion about what I'd want done with Gerner's body. What the effing is wrong with you??
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I think that the settlement is an attempt to preempt a worse situation.
A repeal of the tax that set this up and made it inevitable would be another good idea.
Or should they keep the situation as it is until this reoccurs a few times?
Putting someone under arrest should not be considered trivial by the legislature, it is stressful even when done gently.
This picayune offense that Mr Gardener is supposed to have been doing , is just not worth nearly this much grief.
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Agreed. And if Gerner had complied with the officer's instructions to start off with, perhaps the policy would less likely be in need of amending. It shouldn't have come to someone tragically dying for that to happen however
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It is impossible for me to "cover up" anything. I had nothing to do the Garner being killed, the cop being disciplined (if indeed he was), or the payment made.
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I think it well proven that the policeman did not choke Mr Garner.
I would like to find a Doctor or other expert in respiratory distress opinion , because I should not pretend to be an expert.
But neither should most of the pontificating members of the public ,
....... regardless.....
The city and state required this arrest , it is wrong to place all the blame on their agent alone.
I am heartily sorry that Mr Garner did not live to make his anti tax argument in a court or in a large media forum, I liked the point that he was making , but he was making it to a person with no choice in his response.
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It is impossible for me to "cover up" anything. I had nothing to do the Garner being killed, the cop being disciplined (if indeed he was), or the payment made.
NOR DID I CLAIM YOU COVERED ANYTHING UP REGARDING THE GERNER DEATH, DR Deflection. I MADE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR (3rd time now) that you're COVERING UP YOUR OWN FALSE IMPLICATION/NARRATIVE that this was some jury award for a cop killing Gerner for selling illegal cigarettes & resisting arrest.
When that was brought to your attention, you covered it up by quickly changing subjects in trying to lay some idiotic notion of what I'd want to have done with Gerner's body
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So, what would you want to do with Garner's body?
You seem to be "covering up" your answer.
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I HAVE NO INTEREST IN GERNER'S BODY. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU THINK I WOULD?? YOU'RE THE ONE THAT INJECTED THAT INTO THE THREAD
Like I recommended earlier, stop showcasing this idiot streak you're currently running
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Stop covering up stuff, sirs. We are all onto you. You aren't any good at it.
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Moving right on to idiot squared now. Well, you have that right to make an ass of yourself. Go for it
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You are plunging into incoherency, sirs.
I agree that arresting people for selling single cigarettes is inappropriate. Both the law and the prosecution of it were harmful.
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You are plunging into incoherency, sirs.
I'm not the one who introduced or became obsessed with Garner's body. If he had only complied with lawful instructions, he'd be alive today.....to sell something else illegal, I suppose.
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You are still covering up. And deflecting all over yourself as well. When will this end?
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Perhaps when you stop obsessing about Garner's body. I mean, you're not fooling anyone in this deflective tactic to take the spotlight off your original false claim, that started this thread
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Also since it's not about the money.....yeah it's about justice!
I am sure they will be writing out a check for $5.9 million to the United Negro College Fund!
Hello local Cadillac dealer how late ya'lls open?
Ha Ha....
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You are plunging into incoherency, sirs.
I agree that arresting people for selling single cigarettes is inappropriate. Both the law and the prosecution of it were harmful.
Can a police force or individual policemen nullify a stupid law by never enforcing it?
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I am sure they can and they do it every day of the year somewhere.
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I am sure they can and they do it every day of the year somewhere.
Then lets fire all the legislatures and courts that and save this wasted money.
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I'll 2nd that
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Idiotic response, that.
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Idiocy would be advocating that law enforcement pick & choose what laws to enforce. Kinda like a high school math teacher deciding that their students should be taught multiplication, but decide not to teach algebra
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Cops do this all the time, particularly in small communities where everyone knows everyone else. But I have lived in several such places (Westport and Randle, WA, Ashland, VA, Buckhannon, WV and Charlotte Hall, MD) and you have not.
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So you're seriously advocating that law enforcement decide, SUBJECTIVELY, on an individual basis, which laws they're to enforce?? Lemme guess.....they'd only be the laws you claim should and shouldn't be enforced. No wonder you have no problem with Obama's anti-constitutional end around on immigration
Here's a news flash.....RULE OF LAW is what separates us from 3rd world countries. If you don't like a law, you support legislators to change it. The job of law enforcement is to enforce EXISTING law. Yes, they have latitude, as do Prosecuters, but that's not blanket for any specific law.....except of course when it comes to the left, when they've decided, that screw the other 2 branches of government, we're going to unilaterally decide what's to be enforced, and what's not. Can you imagine the apoplectic outrage if some GOP President decides.....yea, we're not going to enforce Roe v Wade while I'm in office. Oh, and some of those Environmental laws, yea, we're going to allocate our resources in other areas. There'd be calls for impeachment
Now, before Dr Deflection pipes in that "This isn't about Obama, or even the president, this is about Gerner, your racist righty"......the point is what you're advocating.....that law enforcement, (and the Chief law enforcer in this country, is not the AG, it happens to be whoever is heading the Executive office in DC...that being the President) decide, ON ITS OWN, CONTRARY TO THE FUNCTION OF EACH BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, a blanket call of which laws are to be enforced
That's called a banana republic......and in its extreme version, a dictatorship
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I am not discussing what should happen, I am addressing what does happen.
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Cops do this all the time, particularly in small communities where everyone knows everyone else. But I have lived in several such places (Westport and Randle, WA, Ashland, VA, Buckhannon, WV and Charlotte Hall, MD) and you have not.
In Mayberry this probably does not get the constable fired.
In Gotham there may be less discretion.
But even in Mayberry , when the state legislature , the town council and the mayor want a law enforced , they do tell the constabulary to do this for them.
So a policeman's lot is not a happy one , large community or small where there is something negative going on the policeman has to get involved, every time.
So a policeman sees as much tragic event and bad decision in a month as most people see in a lifetime.
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I am not discussing what should happen, I am addressing what does happen.
Actually, you're addressing with what did happen, with what should happen. In other words, you support a banana republic