Author Topic: Violation of the Constitution  (Read 12823 times)

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Lanya

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Violation of the Constitution
« on: October 20, 2006, 01:50:08 PM »
WIll this stand?

Court Told It Lacks Power in Detainee Cases

By Karen DeYoung
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 20, 2006; A18

Moving quickly to implement the bill signed by President Bush this week that authorizes military trials of enemy combatants, the administration has formally notified the U.S. District Court here that it no longer has jurisdiction to consider hundreds of habeas corpus petitions filed by inmates at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba.

In a notice dated Wednesday, the Justice Department listed 196 pending habeas cases, some of which cover groups of detainees. The new Military Commissions Act (MCA), it said, provides that "no court, justice, or judge" can consider those petitions or other actions related to treatment or imprisonment filed by anyone designated as an enemy combatant, now or in the future.

Beyond those already imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay or elsewhere, the law applies to all non-U.S. citizens, including permanent U.S. residents.

The new law already has been challenged as unconstitutional by lawyers representing the petitioners. The issue of detainee rights is likely to reach the Supreme Court for a third time.

Habeas corpus, a Latin term meaning "you have the body," is one of the oldest principles of English and American law. It requires the government to show a legal basis for holding a prisoner. A series of unresolved federal court cases brought against the administration over the last several years by lawyers representing the detainees had left the question in limbo.

Two years ago, in Rasul v. Bush, which gave Guantanamo detainees the right to challenge their detention before a U.S. court, and in this year's Hamdan v. Rumsfeld , the Supreme Court appeared to settle the issue in favor of the detainees. But the new legislation approved by Congress last month, which gives Bush the authority to try detainees before military commissions, included a provision removing judicial review for all habeas claims.

Immediately after Bush signed the act into law Tuesday, the Justice Department sent a letter to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit asserting the new authorities and informing the court that it no longer had jurisdiction over a combined habeas case that had been under consideration since 2004. The U.S. District Court cases, which had been stayed pending the appeals court decision, were similarly invalid, the administration informed that court on Wednesday.

A number of legal scholars and members of Congress, including Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), have said that the habeas provision of the new law violates a clause of the Constitution that says the right to challenge detention "shall not be suspended" except in cases of "rebellion or invasion." Historically, the Constitution has been interpreted to apply equally to citizens and noncitizens under U.S. jurisdiction.

The administration's persistence on the issue "demonstrates how difficult it is for the courts to enforce [the clause] in the face of a resolute executive branch that is bound and determined to resist it," said Joseph Margulies, a Northwestern University law professor involved in the detainee cases.

On Tuesday, the appeals court granted a petition by lawyers for the detainees to argue against the new law. Vincent Warren, the executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents many of the detainees, said yesterday that he expected the administration to file a motion for dismissal of all the cases before the defense challenge is heard.

"We and other habeas counsel are going to vigorously oppose dismissal of these cases," Warren said. "We are going to challenge that law as violating the Constitution on several grounds." Whichever side loses in the upcoming court battles, he said, will then appeal to the Supreme Court.

Staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.
© 2006 The Washington Post Company
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sirs

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2006, 02:08:12 PM »
Amazing how unconstituional this nation was to the Nazis and Japanese POW's back in WWII. 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2006, 02:31:12 PM »
<<Amazing how unconstituional this nation was to the Nazis and Japanese POW's back in WWII.>>

That's nothing.  You'd be really amazed at how unconsitutional it was to its own black citizens back then!!!

(sirs' theory is, once unconstitutional, always unconstitutional.  Don't - - whatever you do - - even  think about enforcing the Constitution.)

But why only go back to the 1940s?  Why not the pre-Civil War days when slavery was the law of the land?  That's who you should really model yourselves on, the USA of 1840, not 1940.  If you love unconstitutionality as much as sirs does, now THAT'S unconstitutionality!!!

Universe Prince

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2006, 04:51:32 PM »

Amazing how unconstituional this nation was to the Nazis and Japanese POW's back in WWII. 


Amazing how some folks seem willing to excuse unconstitutional behavior now by comparing it to unconstitutional behavior then. As if somehow ignoring the Constitution before makes it okay now.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2006, 05:02:21 PM »
Amazing how some folks seem willing to excuse unconstitutional behavior now by comparing it to unconstitutional behavior then. As if somehow ignoring the Constitution before makes it okay now.

My thoughts are that we weren't so "unconstitutional" then, or now
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2006, 05:27:40 PM »
<<Amazing how unconstituional this nation was to the Nazis and Japanese POW's back in WWII. >>

I guess you have proof that the Japanese and Nazi POWS of WWII were suffocated, beaten and kicked to death, tortured, anally raped, attacked by guard dogs while naked, denied communication with their families, held in secret prisons in undisclosed locations and sexually humiliated don't you?  How'd you like to share some of that proof with the group?

sirs

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2006, 05:40:56 PM »
<<Amazing how unconstituional this nation was to the Nazis and Japanese POW's back in WWII. >>

I guess you have proof that the Japanese and Nazi POWS of WWII were suffocated, beaten and kicked to death, tortured, anally raped.  How'd you like to share some of that proof with the group?

Cool, now show us where our troops were/are
a) doing it
b) Government is condoning it
c) Supporters of the war support it

Your other references are not relevent and/or they're distorted allegations
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2006, 07:25:01 PM »
<<Cool, now show us where our troops were/are
a) doing it>>

I'm not going to fall for that same bullshit over and over again.  The misconduct of U.S. troops torturing, suffocating, beating to death and anally raping prisoners is well documented and if you really don't know anything about it, I can only assume that you have been in a coma for the past two years from which you have only just awakened.

<<b) Government is condoning it>>

That's inferred from the failure to prosecute any high-ranking officers who allowed this to happen on their watch, from the modest sentences given to the few lowly soldiers already convicted of some of these events, from the "President" reserving right to torture for himself, from the widespread nature of the offences and probably a few other indicators that haven't occurred to me at the moment.

<<c) Supporters of the war support it>>

a total irrelevancy, if the act is in fact unconstitutional, the approval or disapproval of the supporters of the war can't make it any more or any less constitutional.

sirs

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2006, 07:28:38 PM »
<<Cool, now show us where our troops were/are
a) doing it
b) Government is condoning it>>
I'm not going to fall for that same bullshit over and over again.  The misconduct of U.S. troops torturing, suffocating, beating to death and anally raping prisoners is well documented and if you really don't know anything about it, I can only assume that you have been in a coma for the past two years from which you have only just awakened.

And I can only assume you're going to stick to the same lack of facts /proof is a validation of facts/proof. 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2006, 07:31:20 PM »
I have had conversations with Veterans of the Pacific fighting who have told me that they avoided takeing Japaneese prisoners.

This is hardly proof , but it is equal to supposition that the few cases that are presently being prosicuted are a "tip of an Iceberg".

Michael Tee

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2006, 09:18:34 PM »
<<And I can only assume you're going to stick to the same lack of facts /proof is a validation of facts/proof.  >>

No, sirs, I am not.  The facts of US abuse of Iraqi and Afghan prisoners are so well known that I will assume that anyone who reads my post knows all about them.  Just like I would assume that he or she knows that the U.S. has invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.  If anyone reading my post is so fucking ignorant that he or she doesn't know that basic and well-documented fact, then there is nothing to be gained by further dialogue with him or her and I will spend my time more productively dialoguing with readers who at least know the basic facts of the situation, whether or not they agree with me, and leave the wingnuts to dialogue with the wingnuts.

sirs

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2006, 10:41:18 PM »
<<And I can only assume you're going to stick to the same lack of facts /proof is a validation of facts/proof.  >>

No, sirs, I am not.  The facts of US abuse of Iraqi and Afghan prisoners are so well known that I will assume that anyone who reads my post knows all about them.  Just like I would assume that he or she knows that the U.S. has invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yes Tee, you are.  Your facts are of examples already condemned actions of torture, already investigated & prosecuted acts of mistreatment, and pure opinion of Afghanistan & Iraqi invasions.  In short, you have squat, as it relates to this supposed widespread abuse and torture at the hands of our Military, and advocated by our Government
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2006, 10:56:34 PM »
sirs, you're as welcome to the opinion that the U.S. doesn't torture its prisoners as I am to the opinion that it does.  But as far as I'm concerned, that's an issue that I have no interest in debating.  It would be like debating whether or not the U.S. invaded Iraq.  (Or whether or not Bush lied.)  Those issues as far as I am concerned are done.  Dead and buried.  You believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe.  We've been through every permutation and combination of the case for and against and there's no point in going through them again for the 500th time. 

sirs

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2006, 11:06:09 PM »
sirs, you're as welcome to the opinion that the U.S. doesn't torture its prisoners as I am to the opinion that it does.  But as far as I'm concerned, that's an issue that I have no interest in debating.  

Oh I realize trying to debate with someone as closed minded as they are on certain subjects can prove quite disinteresting.  Been having to deal with that on pair of other threads.  It's in those cases that I remind myself that there are others who don't post, who simply read these forums.  And its those folks that allow me to endure the perseverating Bush lied us into war, Capitalism & America are evil, U.S. military tortures diatribes you call critical thinking.  So, yes, you are absolutely entitled to your alternate version of events, as it relates to Bush and our military.  Just don't think they're gonna get free passes, like so many Liberal Democrat Politicians receive from Mainstream media reporters
« Last Edit: October 21, 2006, 02:31:50 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Violation of the Constitution
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2006, 01:52:45 AM »
  I think that the origional stratergery was to repeat "Bush Lied " with no supporting facts so many times that the defense was exausted and simply allowed th naked assertion to stand.


But apparently the strain is starting to show on the strategisers.