Author Topic: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country  (Read 6371 times)

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Plane

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2013, 10:55:11 PM »
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Yeah, sure, how many people does a hedge fund manager employ?

Wrong question, the real question should be how many people employ that hedge fund manager. His earnings are directly proportional to the profits he or she makes for his or her investors.

It's like asking how many people a heart specialist employs, when the real question of societal worth would be how many people employ the heart specialist.

Hey good point!

How interconnected are such relationships and does a large number of customers relate to wealth in a direct way?

BT

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2013, 11:16:31 PM »
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How interconnected are such relationships and does a large number of customers relate to wealth in a direct way?

Ask your insurance agent. Their earnings are directly related to policy renewals. The more customers the larger the base earnings.

sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2013, 01:46:00 AM »
Ouch     8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2013, 12:33:36 PM »
The hedge fund manager may employ a staff of a half dozen. He contributes NOTHING to the economy. If he did not exist, what he sells would be sold in some other venue.

No reason to tax him at a measly 15% when someone who does actual productive labor pays a lot more.

His customers, without him, would get by with no difficulty whatever/

There is no ouch.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2013, 01:48:54 PM »
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No reason to tax him at a measly 15% when someone who does actual productive labor pays a lot more.

I doubt seriously that his commissions from managing the fund are taxed at 15%.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2013, 02:14:33 PM »
Hedge Fund managers are taxed at the capital gains rate, even though you may doubt it.

You can check this out if you want to be sure.

The point is that wealth is very poorly distributed in this country and that is unhealthy for nearly all of us and should be changed.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2013, 04:16:50 PM »
Hedge Fund managers are taxed at the capital gains rate, even though you may doubt it.

You can check this out if you want to be sure.

The point is that wealth is very poorly distributed in this country and that is unhealthy for nearly all of us and should be changed.

Are hedge fund managers not compensated based on profits generated by their trades? Unless it is their own stock they are trading why would they be taxed at a capital gains rate? That makes no sense.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2013, 06:04:00 PM »
I do not know why. You could ask the IRS.

Here is what this is about:

[url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2011/09/14/hedge-fund-fair-tax-can-cut-deficit-by-18-billion//url]
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2013, 10:46:55 PM »
So what Mr. Cohan says is that a hedge fund manager pays @ the 39% rate (now) for the $100 mill he earns managing a 5 Billion dollar fund, but he only pays 15% on the second $100 he would earn if he returned a $500 million profit (capital gains) buying and selling from the $5billion portfolio he manages.

Other than the scale of his earnings, why should he be treated differently than any other investor who also earns a salary?


Plane

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2013, 11:10:41 PM »
Why would he pay any tax on money he manages?

He only owes on money that comes to him as income , not on money that belongs to other people.

BT

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2013, 11:27:59 PM »
I believe the second $100 million is taxed as capital gains, because that is what it is, his share of the profits derived from the buying and selling of securities.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2013, 10:32:07 AM »
If they get taxed as you think is reasonably , why should anyone be anything like productive?

================================================
I suppose you think that Leonardo da Vinci would have dedicated himself to painting houses if it had payed better.

The truly creative are the inventors, the writers, the artists. They are never paid as much as those who make the really big bucks. Bill Gates BOUGHT the beginnings of MS DOS from some other guy for a pittance. He was not the creator. Only on rare occasions do the actual creators benefit from theior creations in any way commensurate with the benefit of their inventions. Hedgefund managers, CEOs, even a number of performers would have gone nowhere without others who did the truly creative things.

This is a bogus argument,

Ayn Rand was creative when she wrote We the Living. Read it, there is some really good prose there.

Atlas Shrugged is the work of a hack, high on Bennies and in love with herself. NO comparison.

No one wants to turn the US into North Korea, only into something as happy and pleasant as Denmark, where everyone can obtain an education commensurate with their talents and therefore can make a maximum contribution to society.

I observe that the people who make this "you have to pay for creativity" argument are never creative people, generally they are others who hire them. How is raising a CEO's salary from 1.5 million to $3.0 million going to make him more creative? There is an absolute limit to the amount of income that will make a person feel satisfied and decently compensated, unless they are some sort of ultra-competitive greedhead. We seem to have more greedheads in this country than creative people. Or perhaps is simply appears that way because greedheads think they are number one and insist on waving their giant rubber finger egos around, while a lot of creative people tend to ignore publicity entirely.

We had plenty of creativity in the US when the maximum tax rate was much, much higher. How much do you suppose Hemingway earned, or any of the Nobel laureates or even Sinatra? The people who are bitching about their creativity being diminished are not the creative ones. Dwight Eisenhower took to painting after he retired. Do you suppose that he would have spent his life watching TV had he not been able to sell his paintings?

I sure don't. People create most often to satisfy themselves. We should encourage creativity, but lowering tax rates on incomes over 400K is not going to do that, nor is raising them going to end creativity. It will have no real effect at all. 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 10:45:57 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
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sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2013, 11:46:41 AM »
If they get taxed as you think is reasonably , why should anyone be anything like productive?

================================================

People create most often to satisfy themselves. We should encourage creativity, but lowering tax rates on incomes over 400K is not going to do that, nor is raising them going to end creativity. It will have no real effect at all.

Someone who kows a hell of a lot more as it relates to economics, even teaching it made reference that "This behavior in economics is known as the first fundamental law of demand. It holds that the higher the price of something the less people will take and that the lower the price the more people will take. There are no known exceptions to the law of demand. Any economist who could prove a real-world exception would probably be a candidate for the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences and other honor"

The higher you tax labor & those who provide it, the less of it you get.  It has a quantifiable and profound effect
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2013, 02:20:56 PM »
Written by some economics guy, NOT someone who understands diddly-squat about creative people. You mighrt as well ask him about his recipe for Key Lime Pie as creativity.

Read what creative people say about their motivations, not bloody economists.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2013, 02:36:01 PM »
The issue is not how creative some folks can be, but how taxing them higher supposedly has no effect.  Outside of the occasional "DiVincis", that are likely to do whatever they do, regardless of their economic circumstances, the latter has been universally chronicled by economists and economic professors, the world around, in how it indeed suppresses creativity, research, and productivity.  Continue to tax more of it, you get less of it.  Any economist who could prove a real-world exception would probably be a candidate for the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences and other honor
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle