Author Topic: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country  (Read 6373 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2013, 03:06:11 PM »
Again. this is balderdash. People are very often creative whether their creativity pays off or not. The guys who built the Cadillac Ranch and the Watts Towers expected no compensation, they did it out of sheer gumption.

Not everyone thinks like you, sirs. You are not a very creative person at all, as we have seen from your posts. You understand creativity based on crap you have read written by people who have not one speck of creativity. You follow people who know nothing, and arrive at the same erroneous conclusions that you do. Unimpressive.

First off, the wealthiest people in this country are NOT particularly creative. Warren Buffet understands investment. Bill Gates understood that software, not hardware, was where the money was in computers. The Koch Brothers know how to manipulate the soft, squishy brains of the lumpenproletariat. But none of these guys is close to being a Tesla or an Edison.

According to your theory, that rich people are all creative drivers of society, then we should not tax them AT ALL, because even the teensiest bit of taxes might cause them to go a scurrying off to hide themselves in Galt's Gulch, to be seen nevermore.

And that is just batty.




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sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2013, 03:12:20 PM »
You can call it whatever you want.  Reality trumps your rationalizations, rants, & envy, of who and why rich people are rich.  You tax more of something, you get less of it.  Economics 101
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2013, 03:24:36 PM »
This is true only if you assume that Economics governs every aspect of human existence. It does not.

Does economics determine your taste in music? Do you listen only to cheap music? Is there any relationship at all between whether you like a cheap song better than one costing more?

Does economics determine what you feel like eating for lunch?

Does economics determine what clothing you decided to wear today?

Dos economics determine your taste in sports? would you go watch more cricket instead of baseball if it were cheaper to attend cricket games and buy cricket jerseys?

Marx was right only in saying that Economics had an influence in every human activity. But you are outdoing Marx, you capitalist twit: you are saying that it ABSOLUTELY governs every creative activity. Tax Edison at 10% more and he will invent a lightbulb only 90% as good as if you taxed him 10% less.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2013, 04:08:34 PM »
Never said it governed EVERY aspect of human existance, merely reinforciong current reality for those who wish to remain ignorant.  You tax more of something, you get less of it.  Economics 101.  You try taxing "rich people" even more then they already are, you get less creativity, less productivity, with the subsequent less jobs, and jobs created
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2013, 04:11:32 PM »
You sound like you think we need more rich people. Even if we must create more poor people to make them rich.

Economics is only one of many influences on creativity.

And AGAIN, your assumption that rich=creative is bogus.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2013, 04:17:44 PM »
Perfect window into the mind of a hard core liberal.  I don't think we "need more rich people"......we NEED MORE FREEDOM TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO BECOME RICH, if they're so inclined to make the effort.  Nor do I equate rich with creative, so you can dispense with that strawman.  I'm merely reinforcing reality that if you tax rich people more, REGARDLESS of their creativity quotient, you get less of whatever it is they do

Gads, leftists with their obsession of what they think pople need or don't need is truly nauseating     :o
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2013, 09:49:05 PM »
Less of what some rich people do would benefit us all.

No one needs more damned casinos, oil speculators, house flippers that do not fix up the houses they flip. They just squeeze the essence out of others and make things worse.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2013, 11:58:26 PM »
If they get taxed as you think is reasonably , why should anyone be anything like productive?

================================================
I suppose you think that Leonardo da Vinci would have dedicated himself to painting houses if it had payed better.

The truly creative are the inventors, the writers, the artists. They are never paid as much as those who make the really big bucks. Bill Gates BOUGHT the beginnings of MS DOS from some other guy for a pittance. He was not the creator. Only on rare occasions do the actual creators benefit from theior creations in any way commensurate with the benefit of their inventions. Hedgefund managers, CEOs, even a number of performers would have gone nowhere without others who did the truly creative things.

This is a bogus argument,....

 


It is not bogus , you just are not getting it.

Leonardo Da Vinchi tried to make it big , one of his inventive efforts was a means of mass production for pins and needles, unfortunately Leonardos business auchmein did not match the high level of his other talents and the sewing public never got the cheaper pins that might have made Leonardos fortune.

If Leonardo da Vinchi had made a large fortune , do you think he would have been less productive? Or would his increased resorces have been devoted to his creativity?

I know that Bill Gates was not the originator of the OS he sold , nor was very much of the early microsoft products really a Bill Gates origional, but Bill served as a broker between those ideas and the people who needed them, this is a service of huge value , as witnessed the huge value that was handed to Bill Gates for doing it.

This is a central question, how much of the value created by creativity can be snuffed out and never realised? Whenever a great idea bears fruit , it benefits more than just the origional inventor or artist, it benefits also all of the customers ready to use the idea.

Forget all about Ann Rand if you want to, I do not intend to reference her here.

If Thomas A. Edison had not been the promotional genius he was , a salesman, as well as a very good inventor , we would all be signifigantly poorer, so why begrudge him a fortune? His fortune represents a tiny fraction of the benefit and welth humanity has gained from his work.

If Bill Gates had not been such a sharp dealer , the basics of PC computing might have developed much more slowly  , Apple was playing its cards close to the vest, Bill Gates and microsoft put the power of computing much more in the hands of the common man. This is a lot like Henry Ford, who didn't make the first car or truck , nor the best ever, but made them effectively and effeciently so well that the common man could afford one.

Taking the toys of the rich and the select and adapting them to the masses is a proven fortune maker, the grattitude of the masses is cash.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2013, 12:38:07 PM »
Bogus, bogus, bogus. Fatcats always want us to think they are indispensable, because that is how they think of themselves.

The fact is that the top 1% own too goddamn much of this country, and they are mostly uncreative parasites, not creative geniuses.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2013, 01:18:18 PM »
And that's why their success must be punished.    :o    Envy & Hatred all rolled up into one neat irrational ball.  Again, a perfect window into the mind set of a hard core liberal
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2013, 02:50:48 PM »
It is NOT a "punishment" to tax some guy making a million a year 40% of that because this country has made it possible. And AGAIN, creativity does not normally have much of anything to do with how much a person is taxed at any reasonable rate, which would be 40% or less. You do not understand creativity because you are not creative. You will never understand it because you will never BE creative.

You only parrot the ratbag right, it is worthless to debate this with you.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2013, 05:17:07 PM »
It is wrong to treat one class of people differently than another class of people under the law, whether they are creative with jobs or ideas or not. It is simply a bullshit idea.

Treat other classes as you would wish to be treated.
Golden rule stuff, really.


sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2013, 05:27:42 PM »
It is NOT a "punishment" to tax some guy making a million a year 40% of that because this country has made it possible.

Sure it is.  YOU yourself have parroted over and over again, they have "too goddamn much".  Higher taxing is merely punishment for their success.  This country provides the opportunity.   This country however did NOT give it to him/her, thus its not entitled to take whatever % they have merely because they "have too goddam much".

 
And AGAIN, creativity does not normally have much of anything to do with how much a person is taxed at any reasonable rate

And again, nor was it claimed so.  The issue is, from a reality standpoint, the more you tax a person, the less of what the person is likely to create/produce/do.  Its called economics 101


You only parrot the ratbag right, it is worthless to debate this with you.

and yet you do.....or try to, until you're stuck between a irrational rhetorical wall and a propoganda hard place.  Then out come the insults, and claims of worthlessness, and that no one should have to view what they say
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2013, 07:26:19 PM »
It is wrong to treat one class of people differently than another class of people under the law, whether they are creative with jobs or ideas or not. It is simply a bullshit idea.

Treat other classes as you would wish to be treated.
Golden rule stuff, really.

One could argue its the polar opposite of "fair"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: The Reality of wealth distribution in this country
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2013, 01:45:24 PM »
To the list of liberals who vote for higher taxes – and then proceed to complain about them – add comedian Bill Maher.

Incredibly, the caustic, left-wing Maher recently warned, “ln California, I just want to say: Liberals – you could actually lose me.” As a resident of California, a state with high income taxes, Maher complained that his taxes are “over 50 percent.” What’s more, Maher made a point seldom heard except on Fox News or by a rich Parisian. Maher said, “Rich people … actually do pay the freight in this country … like 70 percent” of the taxes. (Presumably, Maher meant that the top 10 percent of taxpayers pay about 70.5 percent of the federal income taxes.)

Holy Grover Norquist! Was it an epiphany or merely the latest example of liberal hypocrisy?

Maher, just two years ago, painted this picture of the filthy, clueless, racist, sexist, homophobic, selfish, greedy rich:

“America’s rich aren’t giving you money. They are taking your money. Between the years 1980 and 2005, 80 percent of all new income generated in this country went to the richest 1 percent. Let me put that in terms that even you fat-a– tea-baggers, sorry, can understand. Say 100 Americans get together and order a 100-slice pizza. The pizza arrives, they open the box, and the first guy takes 80 slices. And if someone suggests, ‘Why don’t you just take 79 slices?’ – that’s socialism! …

“We have this fantasy that our interests and the interests of the super-rich are the same, like somehow the rich will eventually get so full that they’ll explode, and the candy will rain down on the rest of us, like they’re some kind of pinata of benevolence. But here’s the thing about a pinata – it doesn’t open on its own; you have to beat it with a stick.”

But – now – Maher complains.

Golfer Phil Mickelson, also a Californian, recently complained about high taxes. As with Maher, Mickelson earns the bulk of his money through ordinary income, not through Warren Buffet-type investments that get taxed at a lower rate. Mickelson said: “If you add up all the federal, and you look at the disability and the unemployment and the Social Security and the state, my tax rate’s 62, 63 percent. So I’ve got to make some decisions on what I’m going to do.”

But then came the backlash in this era of social media. People, in essence, said: “Look, Phil, we know you didn’t vote for Obama. But nobody sympathizes with a white, rich, California-living Republican who makes big dollars hitting a little white ball. You come across as a spoiled, ungrateful whiner.”

Mickelson actually apologized! For what? For engaging in a pastime older than golf – complaining about taxes?! For railing against tax hikes he did not vote for?! Apology?

OK. Let’s play this game. Like Mickelson, Maher is a white rich guy (net worth $23 million) living in the very same beautiful state. Like Mickelson, he complained about high taxes. But unlike Maher, Mickelson likely voted against Democrats who promised to raise them. Maher embraced Obama.

As for California’s state income taxes, Maher attacked the Republican California gubernatorial candidate who thought state government was too big. The winner, California Democratic Gov. Jerry Brown, successfully pushed to increase the top marginal state income tax rate from 10.3 percent to 13.3 percent for every dollar above 1 million, the highest state income tax in the nation.

Of the more than 12 million households in California, only 166,000 – or just over 1 percent of the state’s households – account for nearly half of the state’s income tax revenue. This would include Maher’s.

Did Maher not believe his party when Democrats hammered the greedy rich for failing to pay “their fair share”?

Former Democratic Chairman Howard Dean, just after Obama’s re-election, pulled no punches about the quest for more taxes from everybody – to pay for the welfare state America just voted to keep and expand. Dean said: “The truth is everybody needs to pay more taxes, not just the rich. That’s a good start. But we’re not going to get out of this deficit problem unless we raise taxes across the board.” Maher enthusiastically supported Obama and routinely attributed Obama’s political opposition to racism. Did Maher think the Democrats’ entitlement state would be paid for with magic dollars from someone else’s pocket?

Here’s the deal. Voters last November pulled the lever for four more years of expanded government – and for four more years of instructing Congress to get somebody else to pay for it. Bill Maher now says “ouch,” that the rich already pay a disproportionally high share of the income taxes.

The question remains:
Did Maher have an epiphany, and will he now use his considerable platform to similarly enlighten others?
Does he now recognize that, as former British Prime Minister Maggie Thatcher once said, “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money”?
Or is Maher just the latest in a long line of rich lefty hypocrites who want an expensive welfare state – on somebody else’s dime?

A hard core liberal finds his inner Grover Norquist
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 08:34:23 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle