Author Topic: Wow - Dynamite video shows U.S. troops murder over a dozen civilians . . .  (Read 2435 times)

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Plane

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When you look at a cameraman and he is holding a camera does he look a bit like something elese?

Can be , if your life depends on spotting wepons pointing at you as early as possible and you are expecting the wepon something that suggests a wepon could be enough.

This would not be the first incident of cameramen being mistaken for wepon carrying warriors.


Look at these and think fast two cameras or two wepons?



http://blogs.reuters.com/photo/2008/04/17/reuters-cameraman-fadel-shana-killed-in-gaza/
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 12:01:10 AM by Plane »

Kramer

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reporters that go into war zones know the risks

maybe reporters should stay home and leave the waring to warriors, that way they remain safe & sound.

Plane

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reporters that go into war zones know the risks

maybe reporters should stay home and leave the waring to warriors, that way they remain safe & sound.


No , we really need them .

I don't trust the government enough to allow them to controll the flow of information utterly.


What we need is some better way to see the targets clearly and understand what we are seeing.


We have shot camels and British Jeeps in Iraq by mistake , fewer such mistakes woud be very good.

Kramer

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reporters that go into war zones know the risks

maybe reporters should stay home and leave the waring to warriors, that way they remain safe & sound.


No , we really need them .

I don't trust the government enough to allow them to controll the flow of information utterly.


What we need is some better way to see the targets clearly and understand what we are seeing.


We have shot camels and British Jeeps in Iraq by mistake , fewer such mistakes woud be very good.

Poor Joe Camel got shot in the 90's.

Plane

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Michael Tee

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Geeze I didn't read the first story very carefully.  I thought the Army was forced by court order to give up the tape.  This makes it even worse for them, it was posted by a whistleblower from inside their own ranks.  Meaning that if it were up to them this tape would have been buried forever, probably destroyed like the waterboarding tapes if ever ordered to be produced by a court order.

What a sleazy bunch of lying bastards.  Gunbattle my ass. 

But you know, no matter how much they lie and how many times they are caught, Americans are still dumb enough to believe anything they say.  For example, "I thought the camera was an RPG launcher."  Why the fuck would ANYBODY believe that shit KNOWING what a bunch of fucking lying bastards it is coming from?

BSB

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Just so you'll sound more professional, and therefore be more effective while on your mission, Snowblower, you don't refer to it as an "RPG launcher".  Just RPG is the usual identifying set of symbols.

BTW, I wonder how the Iraqi's are taking this? Concerned? Angry? Other things to think about?


BSB

BT

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This makes it even worse for them, it was posted by a whistleblower from inside their own ranks. 

How do we know the tape is legitimate?

Universe Prince

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The story told at http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/16/pre-crime-policing/singlepage is, Michael Tee assures, perfectly legitimate police behavior. Showing up with SWAT teams to possibly shoot a man who, based on hearsay and speculation, might be just crazy enough to shoot someone himself is, Michael Tee assures, great police work and shows a commitment to protecting people. There was, Michael Tee assures, no reason and no time for the police to investigate and find out more about the situation.

Yet, now he presents us with footage that has audio which clearly indicates the people in the helicopter believed the people on the ground had AK-47s and RPGs, and so the people in the helicopter fire at those they believe intend deliberate, violent harm to stop the people on the ground from killing other and/or blowing other people up with explosives. And Michael Tee says the people in the helicopter should have waited to find out if the people on the ground were actually friendly nor not. I guess he thinks the the military should have done some investigation.

Don't get me wrong. I don't believe the U.S. military has anything to be proud of here. The men in the video are not doing anything but walking down the street in manner that seems to me to be not the least bit threatening. But then, I don't know what the men in the helicopter normally see every day. Even so, There seems to be something wrong with claiming this was some sort of firefight with insurgents or justifiable engagement of insurgents when clearly, even without knowing who was on the ground, this was not even remotely a firefight and was basically a slaughter of people who at no point fought back.

But Michael Tee's suggestion, that the men in the helicopter should have investigated rather than assume their lives and the lives of others were on the line, seems two-faced.

I do agree something should have been done to get a better idea of who was on the ground, but I have to confess I don't know how that would have happened.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Michael Tee

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<<Just so you'll sound more professional, and therefore be more effective while on your mission, Snowblower, you don't refer to it as an "RPG launcher".  Just RPG is the usual identifying set of symbols.>>

Sounds kind of dumb to me, BSB, because "RPG" also refers to the projectile.  You'd think the military, with its love for precision, would have one word for the launcher and another for the projectile.  But I appreciate the tip.  Thank you.

Aside from my ignorant misuse of military terminology, what are your thoughts on the substantive points I was trying to make?   Any comments on the military being caught once again in One Big Fucking Lie and Cover-up?  Any comments about the willingness of the sheeple to continue to believe unquestioningly in anything the military says about the incident AFTER its Big Fucking Lie about it has been exposed?

<<BTW, I wonder how the Iraqi's are taking this? Concerned? Angry? Other things to think about?>>

IMHO, the US military has been there for a long, long time and the battle lines are already drawn.  This isn't the first civilian massacre those fucking bastards have perpetrated and unfortunately it is far from the last.  All Iraqis know this, regardless of where they are in the political spectrum.  You can bet your ass that not a single one of them is exactly shocked by any of this.  Those who already hate the Americans will continue to hate them, those who want or need their presence will continue to want or need it, and those who thus far have managed to stay out of the fray will continue to do so.  The only exception that I can think of are the immediate families of the victims.  If they didn't already hate the fucking guts of the invaders, they sure as bitchin hell do now; if they have any balls, they'll be looking for payback and I can't imagine them not knowing who to go to or how to get it.  If there's a God in heaven, they'll get it, and fast.  Unless they've already compromised themselves by working with Americans, in which case all they can do is suck it up.   

BTW, "fucking bastards" was my considered judgment on the situation.  More systemic than individual, in the circumstances.  I was aware of the traces of humanity shown in the video - - the unseen designer of the system that obliged these guys to call in for permission before opening fire, the guy on the ground who actually RAN with one of the child victims to get help for her.  Still it comes down to individual choices - - the entire invasion was illegal and criminal, yet every one of those fuckers FREELY CHOSE to participate, committed themselves in advance to killing on order, even in an unjust cause.  My late neighbour gave me a complete education on the tendency of soldiers, especially after having been in combat awhile and survived a few nasty surprises, to shoot first in any doubtful situation and sort it out later, rather than take unnecessary risks with their own lives.  They know from bitter experience what "unarmed civilians" can do to them.  And they've seen enough death and killing that a human life just doesn't have the same value to them at the end of their road as it did at the beginning.  Conversely, the value of their own survival, their own "human life," seems to loom larger in their value systems.  (Not trying to teach you anything here, except that I don't need The Lecture.)

However, that said, I did not perceive any indication in that video that the soldiers felt in any danger of immediate attack.  Their tones were matter of fact, and their impatience and eagerness to start shooting was palpable.  At no time was any fire returned, which from a group of 15 "armed insurgents" about to die anyway seems just incredible.  The attack on the guys in the van as they rescued the wounded was inexcusable.  "Gun battle" my ass!!!  Also remarkable was the lack of any pointed questions from the unseen controllers, like "What are those guys doing?  Can they see you?  Are they taking cover?  Are they pointing weapons or taking combat positions?  And BTW I don't see any barrier to a chopper camera's being able to transmit its images in real time to the controllers of the mission.  IF anyone had been remotely interested in preventing atrocities like this.

It's simply IMPOSSIBLE to believe General Petraeus or any other lying fucking one of them who claims that the U.S. Army takes "every possible precaution" to avoid civilian casualties.  That is absolute garbage, which should have been apparent from the time that Tommy Franks claimed "We don't do body counts."  However anyone who still believes that shit after hearing Franks AND after watching this video has to be a total fucking moron.  They take NO real precautions, but they sure as hell invest incredible amounts of their time and energy lying about it to the world and to the ever-gullible American sheeple AND to covering up their daily crimes and atrocities with their usual lies and bullshit.