Author Topic: The General reports  (Read 1252 times)

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Lanya

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The General reports
« on: June 16, 2007, 08:54:58 PM »
[............]

In the meeting, the officials professed ignorance about Abu Ghraib. “Could you tell us what happened?” Wolfowitz asked. Someone else asked, “Is it abuse or torture?” At that point, Taguba recalled, “I described a naked detainee lying on the wet floor, handcuffed, with an interrogator shoving things up his rectum, and said, ‘That’s not abuse. That’s torture.’ There was quiet.”

Rumsfeld was particularly concerned about how the classified report had become public. “General,” he asked, “who do you think leaked the report?” Taguba responded that perhaps a senior military leader who knew about the investigation had done so. “It was just my speculation,” he recalled. “Rumsfeld didn’t say anything.” (I did not meet Taguba until mid-2006 and obtained his report elsewhere.) Rumsfeld also complained about not being given the information he needed. “Here I am,” Taguba recalled Rumsfeld saying, “just a Secretary of Defense, and we have not seen a copy of your report. I have not seen the photographs, and I have to testify to Congress tomorrow and talk about this.” As Rumsfeld spoke, Taguba said, “He’s looking at me. It was a statement.”

 

At best, Taguba said, “Rumsfeld was in denial.” Taguba had submitted more than a dozen copies of his report through several channels at the Pentagon and to the Central Command headquarters, in Tampa, Florida, which ran the war in Iraq. By the time he walked into Rumsfeld’s conference room, he had spent weeks briefing senior military leaders on the report, but he received no indication that any of them, with the exception of General Schoomaker, had actually read it. (Schoomaker later sent Taguba a note praising his honesty and leadership.) When Taguba urged one lieutenant general to look at the photographs, he rebuffed him, saying, “I don’t want to get involved by looking, because what do you do with that information, once you know what they show?”

Taguba also knew that senior officials in Rumsfeld’s office and elsewhere in the Pentagon had been given a graphic account of the pictures from Abu Ghraib, and told of their potential strategic significance, within days of the first complaint. On January 13, 2004, a military policeman named Joseph Darby gave the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division (C.I.D.) a CD full of images of abuse. Two days later, General Craddock and Vice-Admiral Timothy Keating, the director of the Joint Staff of the J.C.S., were e-mailed a summary of the abuses depicted on the CD. It said that approximately ten soldiers were shown, involved in acts that included:


Having male detainees pose nude while female guards pointed at their genitals; having female detainees exposing themselves to the guards; having detainees perform indecent acts with each other; and guards physically assaulting detainees by beating and dragging them with choker chains.

Taguba said, “You didn’t need to ‘see’ anything—just take the secure e-mail traffic at face value.”

I learned from Taguba that the first wave of materials included descriptions of the sexual humiliation of a father with his son, who were both detainees. Several of these images, including one of an Iraqi woman detainee baring her breasts, have since surfaced; others have not. (Taguba’s report noted that photographs and videos were being held by the C.I.D. because of ongoing criminal investigations and their “extremely sensitive nature.”) Taguba said that he saw “a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee.” The video was not made public in any of the subsequent court proceedings, nor has there been any public government mention of it. Such images would have added an even more inflammatory element to the outcry over Abu Ghraib. “It’s bad enough that there were photographs of Arab men wearing women’s panties,” Taguba said.
[............]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/25/070625fa_fact_hersh
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 12:54:04 PM by Lanya »
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Michael Tee

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Re: The General reports
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2007, 05:49:29 AM »
Interesting, in view of the right-wing insistence that such violations are vigorously prosecuted by the authorities, who are outraged to hear of them.  I guess anal rape being a relatively trivial offence, it got passed over in the giant tidal wave of prosecutions that followed these revelations.  Or should have followed these revelations.  Or maybe will someday follow these revelations.   Or . . .  or . . .  hey, come on sirs, help me out a little here, willya?

Anyway, I can see that Rumsfeld at least was really outraged by all this.  Well, the outrage kinda focused on Taguba for putting the report together, and then on whoever had leaked the information in the first place, but God damn it, you can't say that Rummy was unmoved by the scandal.  Now that would be just one more big liberal lie.

Lanya

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Re: The General reports
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2007, 01:07:04 PM »
These were all powerful men.  They had no experience as victims  of rape, torture, abuse...and they seemed unmoved by it except to think how bad it made the US look.   Or rather, the "few bad apples," not the US itself.    They don't get that this will be the seeds of generational  hatred. 
They seem to me to be unable to empathize with the Iraqis.   It is important to be able to do that, because then you can think what they might do in return, and how that would affect your troops, etc.
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Michael Tee

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Re: The General reports
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2007, 01:54:19 PM »
<<They seem to me to be unable to empathize with the Iraqis.>>

IMHO, that's one of the hallmarks of a fascist - - inability to emphasize with ANYONE who's not a member of their gang.  Right there is the seed of their downfall.  They have no idea of the rage they are building or of the payback that comes in its wake.  At bottom, it's just a form of stupidity and that's why so many fascists and their supporters are just plain stupid.  Which certainly doesn't make them any less dangerous.

Lanya

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Re: The General reports
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2007, 03:45:24 PM »
You may be right, but I must say, I see this lack of empathy in many, many groups.  They are the groups who are doing well, are in power, have no experience with being a minority or having to scrape to get by.   
   I always think of the Good Samaritan.....
   Samaritans were not popular.  They (he, rather) could feel that poor beat-up man's pain and saw to it that the man was fed, sheltered, and taken care of.  People without experience of want, need, ostracization,  etc.  walked right on by.  Fascism doesn't come into it, that I  can see.
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Michael Tee

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Re: The General reports
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2007, 04:23:22 PM »
I use the term "fascist" pretty loosely.  To me, the businessman who doesn't give a shit is a "fascist."  Anyone who's a part of the established order and doesn't give a shit about his fellow man, that's a fascist.  A selfish prick who just doesn't care.  To me the essence of fascism, in its narrow or broader sense, is not giving a shit about anyone who's not in your class or group.  If an old-line fascist party were to come to power tomorrow, these are the people who wouldn't lift a finger against it and wouldn't WANT to lift a finger against it.

terra

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Re: The General reports
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 07:46:08 PM »
Sorry Lanya... I should have read the topics before duplicating your's.

What can I say though...great minds think alike. ; )

terra

Lanya

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Re: The General reports
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2007, 10:17:01 PM »
Hugs, and yes, GMTA !
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yellow_crane

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Re: The General reports
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2007, 11:40:01 PM »
I use the term "fascist" pretty loosely.  To me, the businessman who doesn't give a shit is a "fascist."  Anyone who's a part of the established order and doesn't give a shit about his fellow man, that's a fascist.  A selfish prick who just doesn't care.  To me the essence of fascism, in its narrow or broader sense, is not giving a shit about anyone who's not in your class or group.  If an old-line fascist party were to come to power tomorrow, these are the people who wouldn't lift a finger against it and wouldn't WANT to lift a finger against it.


One thing to remember about fascists is that they are Right Wing.

That is why there is more credibility than the Right Wingers want to admit about whether the label of 'fascist' belongs here or there.  I have actually witnessed Bill OReilly making the comment-- in the midst of his little tiger tantrum--that 'facists all wear nazi uniforms.'   

There is a great operative spin that is in place which the Right Wing uses to cast doubt on things that are really quite obvious.  I am reminded here seeing Maxine Waters responding to some loaded question from a Judy Miller-type reporter when she mentioned the word 'racist' attached to some player.  "Oh YEAH," said the admirable Ms W, "I know . . . I know . . . somebody has to use the "N" word to be a racist . . ." 

If you watch, you'll see that is how they on the Right argue the issue--just attempt to limit it until it cannot shiver, and smugly believe they have therefore liberated the remaining great majoirity from racism altogether. 

Think again. 

Just ask the ole Vuhjinnian who was once theee favorite for the presidential ticket until he slurred some black with a slang South African racial label and became cold dead meat by noon the next day.

Fascist permeates the Right Wing, even from the beginning, waiting to manifest, and it is philosophically inevitable.  Fascism exists in the Right Wing, even before any of its spawn has uttered the word "Jew" . . . or engaged in any activity on that short list of '"must be's" to be a fascist.' 



Wherever they are in the real political world, they are Right Wing.

Actually, in terms of their philosophy, the word epitome . . . no, crescendo comes to mind.  Fascism is about big business, you better believe, and its unravelling into a chaotic madness, which usually begins to accelerate at a manic speed as soon as the balancing issue of Labor is removed from the political and economic equation.

When Reagan struck the blow that eventually killed Labor in America, it was inevitable that the control tactics used against the disenfranchised would gradually become more and more overtly fascist.

Facism in the Right Wing is philosophical inevitability.