DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Xavier_Onassis on December 28, 2012, 02:57:04 AM
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http://wonkette.com/494403/study-you-are-not-actually-bruce-willis-it-turns-out#VzuCloaqVk5BZWXb.99 (http://wonkette.com/494403/study-you-are-not-actually-bruce-willis-it-turns-out#VzuCloaqVk5BZWXb.99)
Not even Bruce Willis is Bruce Willis.
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So ...
When gun weilding murderer bursts into the room and quickly shoots everyone, it is difficult to get a shot off in return,
This experiment is unfinished.
This should now be done with everyone disarmed , and the difficulty of getting a return shot can be compared fairly.
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The point is that the expense of buying the gun, getting the permit and perhaps some perfunctory training are pretty much futile when it comes down to saving yourself and others. As soon as you start trying to shoot the perp, you will become his favorite target, so it probably increases the probability that you will be gunned down.
The odds of a gun wielding murderer is about that of some dolt crashing a Buick through the front window of a supermarket, anyway.
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The point is that the expense of buying the gun, getting the permit and perhaps some perfunctory training are pretty much futile when it comes down to saving yourself and others.
While facts and statistics say otherwise
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Only on Bizarro Planet sirs.
You are full of crap, sirs. Your "facts" are lies. You have no clue.
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Yea, damn FEDERALBI, and their lying stats. (Xo's planet being planet ignorance. Pretend the facts and truth don't really exist, and whalaaa, they don't)
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The FBI has no facts. They are in your mind alone.
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Ignorance doesn't look good on you, Professor. Just keep closing those eyes, slap those hands on your ears and squeal nananananananananana.....I can't hear you.....nananananananana.......you can't make me hear you......nanananananana......If I don't say they're facts, there can't be any......nananananananana
8)
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The FBI has no recent facts available because some rightwing nut passed a bill that prevents the government to spend money to release data on firearms.
You should know this.
Any facts you have are dated, bogus or both.
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The FBI has no recent facts available because some rightwing nut passed a bill that prevents the government to spend money to release data on firearms.
You should know this.
Any facts you have are dated, bogus or both.
So no one has any facts?
How much does it cost to release the FBI data?
I would spring for a sheet of paper and if necessacery , a container of ink , myself.
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The FBI has no recent facts available because some rightwing nut passed a bill that prevents the government to spend money to release data on firearms.
You should know this.
No, I don't know this.....this is merely you saying so. Please provide the relevant back up to the accusation, as in a valid link to the specific law you're referring to. Your 99% wrong word doesn't cut it, I'm afraid
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http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2011-crime-statistics (http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2011-crime-statistics)
According to the figures released today by the FBI, the estimated number of violent crimes in 2011 declined for the fifth consecutive year. Property crimes also decreased, marking the ninth straight year that the collective estimates for these offenses declined.
The 2011 statistics show that the estimated volumes of violent and property crimes declined 3.8 percent and 0.5 percent, respectively, when compared with the 2010 estimates. The violent crime rate for the year was 386.3 offenses per 100,000 inhabitants (a 4.5 percent decrease from the 2010 rate), and the property crime rate was 2,908.7 offenses per 100,000 persons (a 1.3 percent decrease from the 2010 figure).
These and additional data are presented in the 2011 edition of the FBI’s annual report Crime in the United States. This publication is a statistical compilation of offense and arrest data reported by law enforcement agencies voluntarily participating in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program.
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?Each of the four violent crime offense estimates decreased when compared with the 2010 estimates. Robbery had the largest decrease at 4.0 percent, followed by aggravated assault with a 3.9 percent decline, forcible rape with a 2.5 percent decline, and murder and non-negligent manslaughter with a 0.7 percent decrease
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?In 2011, there were 14,633 law enforcement agencies that reported their staffing levels to the FBI. These agencies reported that, as of October 31, 2011, they collectively employed 698,460 sworn officers and 303,524 civilians, a rate of 3.4 employees for each 1,000 inhabitants.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011 (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011)
Table 15
Includes robbery Assault and Rape includes the years 2010 and 2011
There is a collum that totals the wepons used to facilitate these crimes and the rate of decline from 2010 to 2011.
One thing that table 15 makes clear is that these violent acts are predominately Urban, a ban on citys might be very effective.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15 (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15)
Table 14
Breakdown by wepon.
Justifiable Homicide
by Weapon, Law Enforcement,1 2007–2011
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-14 (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-14)
Table 20
Murders , breakdown by wepon and state. Year 2011
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20 (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20)
Georgia had 522 murders that year 370 by firearm.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13000.html (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13000.html)
Georgia Population, 2011 estimate 9,815,210
So during 2011 the odds of being murdered by a firearm were one in 18,803 in Georgia.
There is a lot of information availible , not really much about injurys and killings prevented by use of firearm, but that would be very hard to compile because no one is required nor interested in reporting such near misses.
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http://www.atf.gov/statistics/trace-data/2011-trace-data.html (http://www.atf.gov/statistics/trace-data/2011-trace-data.html)
Firearms Trace Data – 2011
A key component of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ (ATF) enforcement mission is the tracing of firearms on behalf of thousands of Federal, State, local and foreign law enforcement agencies. Firearms trace data is critically important information developed by ATF. ATF has prepared the following state-by-state reports utilizing trace data which is intended to provide the public with insight into firearms recoveries.
11,307 guns "recovered" in Ga. during the year 2011
2099 recoverys were in Atlanta.
Almost 9,000 were handguns.
2,702 were taken for illeagal possession.
285 taken after a homicide.
6390 of these guns were sold in Ga.
5305 were sold three years or longer before being involved in crime
Advradge time between gun sale and confiscation , 10 years.
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Perhaps Xo will claim all that data is "outdated". But more so, what he needs is to back up his ongoing claim that some Republican(s) passed some law, at some time, preventing the FBI from releasing gun statistics. Because if they did, Plane just found more violations by the FBI
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I am not totally happy with these sorces.
There is no intrest in and no effort made to count the number of incidents of guns being used in defense.
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A lot of people do not like to be hassled, and would not report a thwarted attack that they repelled with a gun, especially if that gun was not registered or they had no permit to carry it to the scene. On the other hand, there are fanatics that would report some incident that never happened just to prove a point.
Until we have cameras everywhere, data on this is questionable.
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So in other words, besides the lack of backing up your claim, now you're actually bolstering the #'s that still more crimes have been averted with the use of gun, but you're now speculating that those simply went unreported. You do realize that the FBI stats are supported by actual reports taken by law enforcement, who would be in a position to identify a faked incident, and thus be removed from such stats.
So, back to this supposed claim about some Republican(s) passing some law, at some time, preventing the FBI from releasing gun statistics. As you said, you should know this
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I am saying that all that exists is hearsay and speculation.
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I am saying that all that exists is hearsay and speculation.
Yes, I agree that the numbers availible are poorly found and are unreliable.
Further I usually cast suspicion on studys producing results that are politically usefull.
Only extrordnary rigor could correct this percieved prejudice, and I don't know if these cirbcumstances allow rigor at all.
“History can come in handy. If you were born yesterday, with no knowledge of the past, you might easily accept whatever the government tells you. But knowing a bit of history--while it would not absolutely prove the government was lying in a given instance--might make you skeptical, lead you to ask questions, make it more likely that you would find out the truth.”
? Howard Zinn, You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train: A Personal History of Our Times
“The Scientific Method is a wonderful tool as long as you don't care which way the outcome turns; however, this process fails the second one's perception interferes with the interpretation of data. This is why I don’t take anything in life as an absolute…even if someone can “prove” it “scientifically.”
? Cristina Marrero
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."
--Marcello Truzzi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcello_Truzzi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcello_Truzzi)
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/proof (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/proof)
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I am saying that all that exists is hearsay and speculation.
Which has been proven to be wrong....yet again
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You have nothing believable.
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...says Professor 99% wrong
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So where is this famous FBI study, anyway?
It is pretty clear that every crime prevented or caused by a firearm is reported or investigated. There can be no accurate information on this topic.
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It's not 1 study by the FBI. It's their stats generated and sourced to them, that are provided for by those evil agencies you don't believe, such as the NRA, American Free Press, and others. I can provide what they've provided which you'll pffft all over on, all the while ignoring both that their #'s come from the FBI, and that those #'s go unrefuted. So, do we really need to go there, or are will you actually concede the FBI's #'s?
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...says Professor 99% wrong
Even if it is rare,
This might be his time to be right.
What is the quality of the evidence?
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evidence of.......?
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I have seen no evidence whatever that the FBI HAS any numbers. I know that if it does have numbers, they cannot be reliable.
Again, accurate statistics over crimes prevented because someone had a gun are impossible for anyone to obtain, because a huge amount of confrontations are unreported and therefore unreliable.
It is like believing in the Tooth Fairy.
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A woman calls 911 during a burglary and the 911 operator doesn't sound convinced
that there really is a burglar until the husband shoots him with his .38 revolver.
Husband Shoots Burglar During 911 Call (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ytn8uplERY#)
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I have seen no evidence whatever that the FBI HAS any numbers. I know that if it does have numbers, they cannot be reliable.
See, so it doesn't matter any #'s provided, you'll simply jump up and down, close your eyes & ears, and pretend they don't exist
Again, accurate statistics over crimes prevented because someone had a gun are impossible for anyone to obtain, because a huge amount of confrontations are unreported and therefore unreliable.
Already debunked, in that those that have been reported, have cleared the "making it up" hurdle, otherwise the FBI wouldn't be reporting them, in the 1st place, and under your parameters, still more lives were saved using a gun, but they supposedly didn't report it, because of some perceived illegality of the gun
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You have debunked N O T H I N G.
If the F B I does have numbers, which you have never provided, I will only know that they cannot possibly be accurate and therefore cannot be taken seriously.
Bottom line, armed assholes like you do not make anyone safer by strutting around with your toys.
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If the F B I does have numbers, I will only know that they cannot possibly be accurate and therefore cannot be taken seriously.
And THAT's the bottom line, thank you very much.
Still waiting to see Xo reference any CCW holder "strutting around". Maybe they only do it on that planet of his. Perhaps he thinks CCW holders on his planet act out like Bruce Willis. Hmmmm
On this planet however, most CCW holders attempt to keep the lowest of profiles, avoiding "strutting", and hoping never ever having to use their firearm. But if the rarest of situations does occur, they're trained to handle their firearm safely and appropriately.....center mass
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Concealed carry kills robber
Concealed carry kills robber (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vPlaWSKDMc#ws)
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This is, of course, an anecdote.
Note that the person shot was NOT a mass murderer, just a thief.
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Note that the person shot was NOT a mass murderer, just a thief.
LOL...and what's the difference? The dffrerence is the mass murderer killed 3+ folks before being stopped.....by someone with a gun, be it himself or someone else's gun. The thief was prevented from killing anyone. THAT'S THE DAMN POINT
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Turns out only Bruce Willis is Bruce Willis
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Turns out that Bruce Willis is just an actor famous for making films that appeal to certain types of viewers. He plays the hero very well, but I seriously doubt that he could BE that hero, ever.
Turns out that sirs is NOT Bruce Willis or the guy he plays in the movies.
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Heroes are overrated. Much more heroic is the man or women who just does his/her job at home and at work, day in and day out, as life nibbles away at them.
BSB
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Turns out that sirs is NOT Bruce Willis or the guy he plays in the movies.
Turns out that sirs never wanted to be