DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on April 04, 2013, 06:03:48 PM
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303725/North-Korea-nuclear-war-threat-US-troops-poised-respond-madman-Kim-Jong-Un-says-attack-authorised.html#ixzz2PWiiWtpE (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303725/North-Korea-nuclear-war-threat-US-troops-poised-respond-madman-Kim-Jong-Un-says-attack-authorised.html#ixzz2PWiiWtpE)
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Tactics need to be at the serve of strategy, so first decide what the desired end is.
I am not in the know , so do not take my thought as anything other then thought.
I would blast their longest range and most effective wepons all at once with the factorys needed for making more, trying to reduce their offensive capacity as much as possible in the shortest time possible , no point in going small on that.
Second priority would be smashing the bridges and ruining the highways that lead to the DMZ area, if they have an invasion force it should be pinned , harassed and starved.
Going big up frount and breaking the offensive capability as soon as possible should be the goal, since they are already not self sufecient in any respect other than wepons there is no real need to invade, just a big need to prevent them from strikeing outwards with long range wepons or south with land forces.
That is about all, I would not target their leadership because they are already weak on that score.
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You might not know it from the American debate about North Korea, but Pyongyang has to strike a difficult balance. Regime survival is the top priority of the militaristic nation, Terry believes, so it’s got to signal strength to its own populace while not provoking either the South or the U.S. into a devastating war. “An all-out war with South Korea would spell the end of the North Korean regime,” she says. “Pyongyang knows this and wants to avoid it.”
That right there points to the dangers of miscalculation. South Korea didn’t respond to the Cheonan. But new president Park Geun Hee is “determined not to echo that weakness and has vowed a strong response to any direct provocation,” writes regional expert Patrick Cronin. Terry thinks President Obama will restrain South Korea from a major reprisal — and she wouldn’t “bomb Pyongyang” in any case — but Washington “won’t be making any significant gestures to the North,” either.
.......................But if Terry’s assessment proves accurate, the erratic standoff might get worse before it gets better......
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/04/north-korea-climbdown/ (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/04/north-korea-climbdown/)
Terry thinks it can be kept small.
Maybe.
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I consider this to be very unlikely. Kim is young and sees a need to assert himself, especially because the S. Korean and Chinese leaders are even newer in the job than he is. Obviously, the US would retaliate, though nuclear weapons would not be necessary to cripple Pyongyang.
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North Korea & the Middle East
US Moves in Korean Crisis Watched Keenly
by Xi Jinping, Putin, Khamenei and Assad
From the joint communique issued in Moscow Tuesday, April 2, one would imagine that Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russia's Vladimir Putin had found nothing at all to discuss about the pressing crises over Korea, Syria and Iran.
All that seemed to happen was a meeting in a "friendly atmosphere" confirming the "special relations" between Russia and China. However, while Washington, Seoul and Tokyo have avoided looking at the connotations of the Korean issue for the two Middle East trouble spots, the Russian and Chinese presidents closely analyzed their reciprocal impact, drew conclusions and resolved to carry on with their Korean and Middle East policies as before.
Interestingly, Moscow and Beijing have never mentioned North Korean ruler Kim Jong-Un whenever they urged restraint on the three parties caught in the spiraling Korean standoff.
And not by chance: Sources in Moscow disclose that one conclusion shared by Putin and Xi Jinping was that a limited North Korean military adventure might do both their interests in the Middle East some good.
For instance, a smallish military episode in the Far East might have the effect of easing some of the pressure on Syria's Bashar Assad and save his regime, while also diverting American and Israeli minds from contemplation of a possible strike on the Iranian nuclear program.
Important Chinese and Russian military moves unnoticed
Conveniently for them, Western media watch like hawks the slightest North Korean move, whether real or not, and every US military step, while ignoring Chinese and Russian military movements synchronous with the Korean crisis.
So the Pentagon's latest decision Wednesday, April 3, to send an advanced THAAD-Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense battery to the Pacific island of Guam to defend the US base against a North Korean missile attack was widely reported, along with the Pentagon's expectations of the long-term danger of a North Korean attack. So, too, were Pyongyang's repeated war threats against the United States and its allies. But no one covered Chinese tank and armored vehicle movements and air force flights which continued near the North Korean border in "Daqing in the northeastern Heilongjan Province and the border city of Shenyang in Liaoning Province." Neither did Russia's Black Sea war games, starting on March 28, attract attention, although they were suddenly ordered by Putin without warning. He even caught the Russian chief of staff on the hop.
And the games were no laughing matter: According to Kremlin figures, they involved about 7,000 Russian servicemen: Special Forces and Marine units and airborne rapid deployment troops. Over thirty Russian warships based out of the Ukrainian port of Sevastopol in the Crimean Peninsula and the Russian port of Novorossiysk in Krasnodar Krai were mobilized.
All of Russia's different services were pressed into the mock war game as a test of their interoperability and demonstration of Russia's capacity to mobilize for any eventuality at the drop of a hat.
How to cool Kim's enthusiasm for playing brinkmanship with Washington
The young, inexperienced North Korean ruler correctly read the signals from Moscow and Beijing:
On Wednesday, the day after the Russian-Chinese summit, Pyongyang again raised temperatures by advising the United States in its state media to prepare to be "smashed" by "cutting edge smaller, lighter and diversified nuclear strike means."
Although Beijing, Moscow, Pyongyang, Tehran and Damascus are not bound by formal treaties, they are linked by a strong, invisible thread which is tugged in all five capitals by any sign of American weakness which any or all of them can exploit.
Therefore, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel?s pledge of a "measured" response to Pyongyang's aggressive threats will not have the desired effect of lowering the tensions emanating from the Korean Peninsula.
It would be much more useful for US Secretary of State John Kerry to take a break from his far less urgent Middle East peace mission (see a separate article in this issue about Mahmoud?s plans for a "civil uprising") and travel to Moscow and Beijing to discuss an integrated deal covering Iran, Syria, and North Korea.
Some give and take on all three crises might persuade the Russian and Chinese rulers to start bringing Kim Jong-Un to heel.
So long as Putin and Xi Jinping see Washington continuing to pursue separate tracks in the Middle East, especially against Syria and Iran, they have no incentive for curbing young Kim?s enthusiasm for the game of brinkmanship with America.
Informed sources in Washington have disclosed President Barack Obama's latest posture on North Korean bellicosity as "strategic patience". None of the sources could explain exactly what this means.
Maybe Kim can.
{SS}
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(http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/graphics/Logos%20for%20Websites/Washington_Times-2.gif)
PRY: North Korea EMP attack could destroy U.S. now
Obama must take immediate action
By Peter Vincent Pry
Wednesday, December 19, 2012
North Korea now has an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) capable of delivering a nuclear weapon to the United States, as demonstrated by their successful launch and orbiting of a satellite on Dec. 12. Certain poorly informed pundits among the chattering classes reassure us that North Korea is still years away from being able to miniaturize warheads for missile delivery, and from developing sufficiently accurate missiles to pose a serious nuclear threat to the United States. Philip Yun, director of San Francisco's Ploughshares Fund, a nuclear disarmament group, reportedly said, "The real threat from the launch was an overreaction that would lead to more defense spending on unnecessary systems. The sky is not falling. We shouldn't be panicked."
In fact, North Korea is a mortal nuclear threat to the United States' right now.
North Korea has already successfully tested and developed nuclear weapons. It has also already miniaturized nuclear weapons for ballistic missile delivery and has armed missiles with nuclear warheads. In 2011, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, Lt. General Ronald Burgess, testified to the Senate Armed Services Committee that North Korea has weaponized its nuclear devices into warheads for ballistic missiles.
North Korea has labored for years and starved its people so it could develop an intercontinental missile capable of reaching the United States. Why? Because they have a special kind of nuclear weapon that could destroy the United States with a single blow.
In summer 2004, a delegation of Russian generals warned the Congressional Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Commission that secrets had leaked to North Korea for a decisive new nuclear weapon a Super-EMP warhead.
Any nuclear weapon detonated above an altitude of 30 kilometers will generate an electromagnetic pulse that will destroy electronics and could collapse the electric power grid and other critical infrastructures "communications, transportation, banking and finance, food and water" that sustain modern civilization and the lives of 300 million Americans. All could be destroyed by a single nuclear weapon making an EMP attack.
A Super-EMP attack on the United States would cause much more and much deeper damage than a primitive nuclear weapon, and so would increase confidence that the catastrophic consequences will be irreversible. Such an attack would inflict maximum damage and be optimum for realizing a world without America.
Both North Korean nuclear tests look suspiciously like a Super-EMP weapon. A Super-EMP warhead would have a low yield, like the North Korean device, because it is not designed to create a big explosion, but to convert its energy into gamma rays, that generate the EMP effect. Reportedly South Korean military intelligence concluded, independent of the EMP Commission, that Russian scientists are in North Korea helping develop a Super-EMP warhead. In 2012, a military commentator for the People?s Republic of China stated that North Korea has Super-EMP nuclear warheads.
A Super-EMP warhead would not weigh much, and could probably be delivered by North Korea?s ICBM. The missile does not have to be accurate, as the EMP field is so large that detonating anywhere over the United States would have catastrophic consequences. The warhead does not even need a re-entry vehicle, as an EMP attack entails detonating the warhead at high-altitude, above the atmosphere.
So, as of Dec. 12, North Korea?s successful orbit of a satellite demonstrates its ability to make an EMP attack against the United States right now.
The Congressional EMP Commission estimates that, given the nation's current unpreparedness, within one year of an EMP attack, two-thirds of the U.S. population 200 million Americans would probably perish from starvation, disease and societal collapse.
Thus, North Korea now has an Assured Destruction capability against the United States. The consequences of this development are so extremely grave that U.S. and global security have, in effect, gone over the "strategic cliff" into free-fall. Where we will land, into what kind of future, is as yet unknown.
Nevertheless, some very bad developments are foreseeable. Iran will certainly be inspired by North Korea's example to persist in the development of its own nuclear weapon and ICBM programs to pose a mortal threat to the United States. Indeed, North Korea and Iran have been collaborating all along.
If North Korea and Iran both acquire the capability to threaten America with EMP genocide, this will destroy the foundations of the existing world order, which has since 1945 halted the cycle of world wars and sustained the global advancement of freedom. North Korea and Iran being armed with Assured Destruction capability changes the whole strategic calculus of risk for the United States in upholding its superpower role, and will erode the confidence of U.S. allies perhaps to the point where they will need to develop their own nuclear weapons.
Most alarming, we are fast moving to a place where, for the first time in history, failed little states like North Korea and Iran, that cannot even feed their own people, will have power in their hands to blackmail or destroy the largest and most successful societies on Earth. North Korea and Iran perceive themselves to be at war with the United States, and are desperate, highly unpredictable characters. When the mob is at the gates of their dictators, will they want to take America with them down into darkness?
What is to be done?
The president should immediately issue an Executive Order, drafted for the White House earlier by the Congressional EMP Commission, to protect the national electric grid and other critical infrastructures from an EMP attack. The Congress should pass the SHIELD Act (HR 668) now to provide the legal authorities and financial mechanisms for protecting the electric grid from EMP. The Congress should enhance Defense Department programs for National Missile Defense and Department of Homeland Security programs for protecting critical infrastructures.
The administration and the Congress owe the American people security from an EMP Apocalypse.
Peter Vincent Pry is executive director of the Task Force on National and Homeland Security, and served on the Congressional EMP Commission, the House Armed Services Committee, and the CIA.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/19/north-korea-emp-attack-could-destroy-us-now/#ixzz2PYSVYgsA (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/19/north-korea-emp-attack-could-destroy-us-now/#ixzz2PYSVYgsA)
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25years ago such an attack would have minimul effect. Today it would unimaginable what harm no technology would do to us. My doctor use google as part of the exam.
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I do not question your doctor using Google, but this Pry crap is almost certainly utter nonsense.
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Pry??
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psy gangnum style
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this Pry crap is almost certainly utter nonsense.
Dr. Peter Vincent Pry:
Dr. Peter Vincent Pry is President of EMPACT America. He has served: on the Commission on the Strategic Posture of the United States established by the U.S. Congress (2008-2009); as Director of the United States Nuclear Strategy Forum, an advisory body to Congress on policies to counter Weapons of Mass Destruction (2005-2009); on the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack (also commonly known as the EMP Commission), established by the U.S. Congress (2001-2008); as Professional Staff on the House Armed Services Committee of the U.S. Congress, with portfolios in nuclear strategy, WMD, Russia, China, NATO, the Middle East, intelligence, and terrorism (1995-2001); as an Intelligence Officer with the Central Intelligence Agency responsible for analyzing Soviet and Russian nuclear strategy and operational plans (1985-1995), where he was formally recognized by the agency for his expertise, groundbreaking research, and his outstanding accomplishments during his 10 years of service; and as a Verification Analyst at the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency responsible for assessing Soviet compliance with nuclear and strategic forces arms control treaties (1984-1985).
Dr. Pry also played a key role: running hearings in Congress that warned about how terrorists and rogue states could pose an EMP threat, establishing the Congressional EMP Commission, helping the Commission develop plans to protect the United States from EMP, and working closely with senior scientists who first discovered the nuclear EMP phenomenon. Dr. Pry holds two Ph.D.s (in International Relations and U.S. History) and a certificate in nuclear weapons design from the USAF Weapons Laboratory. He has also written numerous books on national security issues.
Dr Peter Vincent Pry -- EMP Action, Too Little Too Late? -- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI-HXjYwov0#)
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I am unimpressed.
North Korea is quite unlikely to be able to do this, and it would hardly benefit them in any way to do it.
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I am unimpressed.
You are "unimpressed" because you are a hack that lives in a fantasy world.
Any logical thinking mind would respect Dr. Pry's very impressive bio.
But once again....you show how blinded you are because it is goes against your world view.
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Does n.korea have a strategic disvadvatage? Meanng in order to attack anyplace,s.korea will always be on the shared first target list. To do otherwise woud be problematic. It's not a factor of range but how to get away with it. Would hte question be who would benefit with n.korea attacking. Whose egging n.korea now?
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North Korea wants, more than anything else, to take over South Korea. Bombing the US would clearly not accomplish this.
I do not give a flying fark what sort of credentials this Pry clown has, I do not have any reason to believe that (1) North Korea has the power to totally destroy the US with EMP's or any other sort of arcane magic, nor do I believe they have the power or the motive to do this. I am pretty sure that the Administration knows tons of stuff about every weapons system that the PDRK has and how to defend against it. Clearly, they are not going to reveal what they know or how they know it. They MIGHT havew a treason to trot out this Pry guy and have him spout nonsense just to bring some North Korean out of the woodwork and reveal some useful detail, though. Perhaps Pry is a "useful tool".
It is just like all that debkafiles drivel that you are eternally spouting: drivel.
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Takng s.korea will be tricky since that bit of real estate is not exactly sitting idle. Those folks are unknowingly super capable people. We think japan is hot s:;t but s.korea is crazy close . Here is the u.s. the majority of known asian entertainers are likely korean. The tech here is starting to be from korea. Thier even the type of asian nobody wants to rob.
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EMP could cause a lot of damage , but we have had this sort of damage by accident and survived.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_outages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_outages)
If this is their plan , they should try it on a small scale , like kicking over a beehive or wrestleing electric eels ,such would be valuable experience.
However much they might co-ordinate diffrent , and ingenious damages to us , they would be entirely unable to prevent a massive retaliation.
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North Korea wants, more than anything else, to take over South Korea.
And how funny/ironic is that?
The colossal failure that can't even feed it's own people,
wants to takeover the successful county & show them a "better way"!
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!
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EMP could cause a lot of damage , but we have had this sort of damage by accident and survived.
Plane when have we ever had a of nationwide infrastructure/power-grid
failure that lasted a very long time as in months to a year or more
since we have become so dependent on computers?
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EMP could cause a lot of damage , but we have had this sort of damage by accident and survived.
Plane when have we ever had a of nationwide infrastructure/power-grid
failure that lasted a very long time as in months to a year or more
since we have become so dependent on computers?
I included a link.
An EMP event would not be more destructive than a major storm that caused a regional power out.
We have had several regional power failures , in the worst ones the crash of one grid would drag down the neighboring grids in a rolling effect.
Gradually this situation is being improved as better switching is installed.
A single EMP bomb might at worst cut the power in a region, worse than that , several EMP attacks in a short time might knock out several regional grids, but this isn't permanant damage and is a sort of damage we are accustomed to deal with after every severe storm.
An attack of that sort would be expensive and annoying, but would only cause death on people who cannot live a short time without power. It might affect some aircraft in flight and kill the passengers and crew when they lost controll.It would reduce our military strength almost not at all.
But , having NKorea poping atomic bombs in our airspace would require massive retaliation even though it is survivable.
Perhaps EMP is being discussed because someone is trying to imagine a way that NKoreas few availible atomic bombs could win a war with a much larger and tougher country.
We learned on 9-11 that tiny forces can cause us serious hurt, I hope that our enemys have learned since then that when we are seriously hurt we get serious about reducing the threat.
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Well
If you view n.korea tv they portray as a nation of homeless people so people so an underestimation is viable
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I am certain that what the PDRK tells its people about the US is known to be just propaganda by the PDRK government. They surely have spies in the US that keep them informed.
This bluster about a totally devastating attack on the US is very similar to the crapola that CU4 copied from debkafiles about Iran and how they were sure to nuke us last Tuesday, as well as all the bull that was spread about Iraq (the world's 4th largest army, armed with weaponized anthrax and smallpox, nukes and poison gas.
At any given moment there is BS about the end of the US, the economy, the collapse of Europe, China starting a war over some microscopic islands, blah blah, blah.
There is zero reason to take a single word of this seriously.
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There is zero reason to take a single word of this seriously.
The PDRK government is well known for bizarre behavior, when they promise mayhem , even the self destructive sort , there is precedent.
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Nothing that North Korea has done has gone over the line. They know what they can get away with. Calling their behavior "bizarre" does not make it a serious threat to the US.
Shelling the island and sinking that ship were only minor mayhem, with fewer casualties that the US shooting down that Iranian airliner full of pilgrims to Saudi Arabia.
That was also rather bizarre. And I doubt that it was an "accident", either.
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Nothing that North Korea has done has gone over the line. They know what they can get away with. Calling their behavior "bizarre" does not make it a serious threat to the US.
Shelling the island and sinking that ship were only minor mayhem, with fewer casualties that the US shooting down that Iranian airliner full of pilgrims to Saudi Arabia.
That was also rather bizarre. And I doubt that it was an "accident", either.
The US apologised for the aircraft , and I understand that mistake , yes it can be an accident caused by poorly tested programing, but the US never tried to say that we had a right to shoot airliners.
North Korea has done exactly the same , but many times and always with a self rightious attitude , as if it is within their right to kill anyone .
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I included a link.
Yes and that link showed ZERO examples of what I asked you for.
An EMP event would not be more destructive than a major storm that caused a regional power out.
Your statement shows you do not understand what a major EMP attack would entail.
A major storm is not going to be anything like what the EMP Commission found:
"The electromagnetic pulse generated by a high altitude nuclear explosion is one of a
small number of threats that can hold our society at risk of catastrophic consequences"
"This broad band, high amplitude EMP, when coupled into sensitive electronics, has the capability to produce widespread and long lasting disruption and damage to the critical infrastructures that underpin the fabric of U.S. society"
An EMP Attack could be more damaging than an Nuke Bomb (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76m5EBzVDc0#)
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Yammer, yammer, yammer.
Blah, blah, blah.
Fox, Faux, Fox.
Why not claim they have weaponized smallpox and anthrax as well?
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Fox, Faux, Fox.
You moron the EMP Commission has nothing to do with Fox News (btw FOX the highest-rated cable news network for 45 straight quarters), the EMP Commission was established pursuant to title XIV of the Floyd D. Spence National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2001 (as enacted into law by Public Law 106-398; 114 Stat. 1654A-345).
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D'oh ;)
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FAUX is apparently the source of your towering stupidity.
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I included a link.
Yes and that link showed ZERO examples of what I asked you for.
It included a list of all the major regional power outs we have had in recent decades. That is about the most a single or a small number of EMP events could cause, it can be crippleing , but we deal with simular damage every three or four years. The grid is gradually being improved such that the failure of one is less likely to drag down its neighbors, Texas is years ahead of the rest in this respect. There are not any examples of EMP being used in warfare because this tactic has not been tried yet.
An EMP event would not be more destructive than a major storm that caused a regional power out.
Your statement shows you do not understand what a major EMP attack would entail.
A major storm is not going to be anything like what the EMP Commission found:
"The electromagnetic pulse generated by a high altitude nuclear explosion is one of a
small number of threats that can hold our society at risk of catastrophic consequences"
"This broad band, high amplitude EMP, when coupled into sensitive electronics, has the capability to produce widespread and long lasting disruption and damage to the critical infrastructures that underpin the fabric of U.S. society"
An EMP Attack could be more damaging than an Nuke Bomb (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76m5EBzVDc0#)
Perhaps it is smart to talk that way where the North Koreans can hear it?
A high altitude burst can indeed slam the area below with a strong pulse , ruining a lot of switching equipment , computers , transformers and generators. Could start fires.
But the area of effect is not really all that large. The North Koreans don't have a large number of A-bombs and don't have a way to lift a lot of a-bombs to high level and cover a large reagion.
The threat they do have is the ability to kill huge numbers of SKoreans , thousands of American soldiers and perhaps supply a serious terrorist with a few giant suicide bombs. This is a pretty bad threat , but they don't have any way to apply such a threat without being exposed to retaliation.
So do we believe that tey are so stupid that they might accept the return stroke we would deliver ?
Perhaps they are , they certaily seem eager to convince everyone that they are exactly that stupid.
But as for the EMP threat , far better to live without TV for the time it took to repair than to loose a city , permanantly.