DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on July 13, 2015, 06:32:57 PM
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https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/cold-war/ronald-reagan-intelligence-and-the-end-of-the-cold-war
Ronald Reagan became the 40th president of the United States more than thirty years ago, and ever since he stepped down to return to California eight years later, historians, political scientists, and pundits of all stripes have debated the meaning of his presidency.
All modern presidents undergo reappraisal after their terms in office. Reagan has undergone a similar reappraisal. The old view, exemplified by Clark Clifford’s famous characterization that Reagan was “an amiable dunce,” posited Reagan as a great communicator, to be sure, but one without substance, a former actor who knew the lines others wrote for him, but intellectually an empty suit.
Reagan, in the old narrative, simply could not be the architect of anything positive that happened while he was president. That perspective has changed forever and is marked by the continually improving regard historians have for Reagan.
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It may be hard for some today to imagine the world in which Ronald Reagan became the 40th President of the United States, two decades ago. That is because the world of today is so radically different, in great part because of the way it was changed during the two Reagan administrations.
The world President Reagan inherited from the 1970s was one in which the American economy had experienced double-digit inflation and double-digit interest rates. An oil crisis had Americans waiting in long lines in their cars at gas stations, sometimes for hours. Moreover, there was no solution in sight, according to all the smart people. Jimmy Carter said that “a dwindling supply of energy sources” meant that “prices are going to rise in the future no matter who is president” and “no matter what we do.”
Internationally, the same smart people saw the growing strength of the Soviet Union and the Communist bloc in general to be a fact of life that we would just have to live with, making our peace with it and negotiating our own long-run decline on whatever terms we could manage.
The unprecedented length of the era of prosperity that we are still enjoying today began in the Reagan administration. Sustained high growth rates, full employment and low inflation rates were considered to be as unattainable simultaneously, according to the prevailing Keynesian economic theories, as the simultaneous stagnation and inflation that had marked the Carter years.
One of Ronald Reagan’s first acts as president was to get rid of price controls on oil that had been in place through the three preceding administrations. There were outcries from Congress, the media and “experts” that ending oil price controls would lead to runaway escalation of the price of gasoline to at least two dollars a gallon. Within four months, the price of gasoline had fallen to less than one dollar per gallon. And, contrary to Jimmy Carter’s prediction, the world’s known reserves of oil were 41 percent higher at the end of the decade of the 1980s than at the beginning.
In the international arena, it was dogma that arms reductions were the only way to pursue peace and that a military buildup on our part would “de-stabilize” the world and invite nuclear war. Moreover, an “arms race” was futile, according to the smart people, because each side would just match what the other side did. In this, as in many other things, President Reagan ignored the smart people and launched a military buildup that was beyond the capacity of the Soviet economy to match.
The economic strain of the effort to keep up with the United States militarily brought the Soviets to the bargaining table and led to a de-escalation of their international military adventures. That strain no doubt also contributed to internal changes in the USSR which ultimately brought down the Communist regime — another impossibility, according to prevailing dogma, so that Reagan was ridiculed for saying that the last days of Communism were at hand. [Capitalism Magazine would also argue that Communism would have fallen anyway– i.e., fail in practice–because communism is a rotten theory.]
The Reagan military buildup during the 1980s also paid off in an unexpected and very welcome way during the Gulf War in 1991. American casualties were only a fraction of what most military experts had predicted, due to the high-tech military hardware that was a legacy of the Reagan years. Many Americans came back alive from that war because of the much-lamented military spending of the 1980s.
It was social dogma at home that expanding social welfare programs were the way to contain the urban riots that had been erupting during many a “long hot summer” in the preceding four administrations. President Reagan rejected that dogma — and major urban riots became virtually non-existent during the eight years when he was in the White House.
There was a time when we followed the ancient admonition, “By their fruits ye shall know them.” Today, it is by their rhetoric and by their adherence to fashionable theories that we judge. By that standard, Ronald Reagan was not smart. But, fortunately for this country, he was wise.
?http://capitalismmagazine.com/2001/02/reagan-may-not-have-been-smart-but-he-was-very-wise/
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He was a great actor and a magnet for the most corrupt appointees in recent history.
Neither of the Gulf Wars would have been fought if the country had been run by competent people instead of the devious Olebush and his goofy son.
Reagan was a likeable old fart and a TERRIBLE president. He fooled most opf the people most of the time, but the sumbitch did not fool me.
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He was a great actor and a magnet for the most corrupt appointees in recent history.
Neither of the Gulf Wars would have been fought if the country had been run by competent people instead of the devious Olebush and his goofy son.
Reagan was a likeable old fart and a TERRIBLE president. He fooled most opf the people most of the time, but the sumbitch did not fool me.
I find your estimate low and conventional.
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It is also accurate.
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It is also accurate.
Carter , Mondale , Obama and the CIA that has worked for all of them disagree with you.
So do I , if that makes a difference.
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Yeah, the CIA would deny that it was breaking the law. What a surprise!
Reagan was an actor hired by despicable dirtbags to do evil things both art home and abroad. We would have been better off had the old fucker never been born.
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If he were truly clueless what would he be responsible for?
Ever see the Peter Sellers version?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcPQ9gww_qc
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I did not say that Reagan was totally clueless. He read the script and he followed it. He knew what the script said. He even believed it.
Reagan was responsible for screwing up the country in many, many ways. I am sure that I have indicated many of them in here over the years.
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I think of President Reagan , PM Margret Thatcher and Pope John Paul as scriptwriters , they wrote the 80s and they wrote it well.
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Reagan was a puppet of the oligarchy who sold weapons to the Iranians to illegally fund the Contras.
Thatcher never got over 44% of the voter of the people of the UK. She was a hateful harpy.
John Paul's last 20 years he spent mumbling to himself.
The world would have been a far better place without any of them.
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Well....
...there you go again....
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Thatcher was a hateful bitch.
Reagan was a tool.
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Ever see the English Parliament in session?
Questions to the PM must be answered on the spot.
Margret Thatcher was witty and intelligent and forceful.
That is a Bitch?
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I saw Thatcher make a fool of herself in front of Parliament on numerous occasions. She was not witty, she said a lot of stupid things/ She was a hateful bitch of the first order. And she never got more than 44% of the vote, because the UK does not have run off elections as other multiparty states, like France do.
I was in England during her reign. Pretty much everyone I spoke with hated her guts. I suppose they were members of the 56% majority that did not vote for her.
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I wouldn't doubt that your favorite haunts had few Thatcher fans, if there were many Thatcher fans in a place it would not become a favorite haunt for you.
Everyone is insular , at least a little.
Do you really regret the fall of the evil empire?
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What does that to do with it?
The USSR simply collapsed of its own incompetence. Thatcher and Reagan had zilch to do with it.
I certainly welcomed the end of the Cold War. As a child I had to put up with the stupid mass hysteria and hide under my desk so the Russian bombs would not vaporize me. i did not believe the bullshit them and do not believe it now.
Livinf conditions in much of the USSR are worse now than they were back in the 1960's. I don;t see Putin as a great improvement.
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Competence is relative.
Reagan and Thatcher and John Paul were much more competent than the other team.
Also more competent than the alternatives.
The Cold war ended when we won it, part of Putin's problem is wanting a rematch.
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Gorbachev speaking at a session of the Politburo in October 1986, days before he traveled to Reykjavik, Iceland to offer Reagan a groundbreaking disarmament plan, including a 50 percent reduction in nuclear arsenals. If he didn't propose these cuts, Gorbachev told his colleagues:
"We will be pulled into an arms race that is beyond our capabilities, and we will lose it because we are at the limit of our capabilities. If the new round [of an arms race] begins, the pressures on our economy will be unbelievable."
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Yea....but Reagan had nothing to do with that. It was.......his speech writers.....yea, that's it ;)
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So somehow Gorbachev NOT spending more money on weapons wrecked the USSR? Bzzt! wrong answer try again.
The problem was that to compete the Soviets needed to build a computer network, but they knew that this would mean the end of their control over the news and events.
The typewriter and the Xerox capable of shrinking text to very small size and then blowing it up made samizdats a real threat, but computer disks and files on tape would have made it even worse.
Reagan was a minor actor in bringing down the USSR. It was mostly the USSR that brought itself down.
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So somehow Gorbachev NOT spending more money on weapons wrecked the USSR? ......
Yes , this is known as throwing in the towel.
After admitting that there was not a need to defend against the USA , there was a difficult sell to the people for a reason for the Soviet Union to exist.
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Actually, there is a need for the Russians to defend themselves from the US.
The US has turned many, if not most, of the non-Russian republics against the Russians, and not just in ideology, but economically.
The US spent $5 billion to destabilize Ukraine.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/ (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/)
I know that I did not vote for my government to piss away any $5 billion to mess with Ukraine and its people.
The US did not threaten the military takeover of the USSR, nor was it likely to bomb them into oblivion, but it is not true that the USSR was not threatened by the US.
I am no fan of Vladimir Putin, he is a nondemocratic semi-dictator and a ruthless manipulator. But that does not mean that Crimea was ever really an integral part of Ukraine.
It is also not really an integral part of Russia, either. I am all for Crimeans deciding for themselves what they want to be. Not that this will ever happen.
I see the concern for ethnic Russians being mistreated by vindictive locals to be a subject worthy of attention by Russia, just as the US was concerned for the Americans who lived in Panama when Noriega was harassing them.
I admire Gorbachev a LOT MORE than I admire Reagan.