DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on November 23, 2015, 03:47:58 PM
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(http://kelleyjames.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/indystar-logo.jpeg)
2 men charged with murder in killing of pastor's wife
Two men were charged Monday with murder in the fatal shooting of a pastor's pregnant wife during an apparent break in of their Indianapolis home, court records show.
(http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/d2087ad62c2eadd156848aef88611381eba66a17/c=0-4-959-725&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/2015/11/11/Indianapolis/Indianapolis/635828767754806923-Davey-Amanda-and-Weston-1.jpg)
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2015/11/23/amanda-blackburn-case-murder-arrest-made-monday/76246780/
(http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/bb7d39f778197254563ab85d53afef4cfb8c17f1/c=226-288-720-660&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/11/23/Indianapolis/Indianapolis/635838856323160097-Presto-AmandaBlackburn-Mugshots-Nov23.jpg)
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(http://resonateindianapolis.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/IMG_4461-224x300.jpg) (http://resonateindianapolis.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/IMG_8086-225x300.jpg)
Amanda Grace Blackburn was a beautiful, gracious, loving woman of God. During a home invasion on November 10, 2015, Amanda suffered a gunshot wound and was left critically injured. The next day Amanda and her unborn daughter, Everette "Evie" Grace Blackburn, passed away as a result of her injuries.
In 2012 Amanda moved back to Indianapolis, Indiana with her husband, Davey, to start Resonate Church. Davey and Amanda planted Resonate Church in Indianapolis with the intention of creating life change through Christ for the residents of Indianapolis.
Amanda made it her life's calling to love and serve everyone she knew. Even more, she has made it her life's mission to see as many people as possible come to know Jesus as their personal Savior. In her death and legacy, we truly believe that even more people will come to a saving faith in Christ.
We ask that as you remember and honor Amanda that you share her story with those who need the hope that she found in Jesus.
http://resonateindianapolis.com/amanda/
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Is it the job of a president to talk about every person murdered in this country?
I do not recall that that is a job requirement.
Usually presidents only talk about massacres. But there is no legal obligation, is there?
In any case, EVEN THOUGH President Obama might share the same skin color with the perps, that DOES NOT make him responsible.
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Is it the job of a president to talk about every person murdered in this country?
Has he deplored any American killing that didn't have a victim that could have been his imaginary son in appearance?
Perhaps he has , but it didn't get as much notice.
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This happened only after the Zimmerman case had dragged on for over a month, and no one was charged.
In the case of this couple, there has been arrests and charges.
That is a significant difference.
The President has the right to address what he wishes.
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Are you saying that the President actually wishes to address only problems with Whites at fault and blacks as victims , but is not interested in any problem caused by Blacks?
I was going to suggest unconscious bias, but you are suggesting worse.
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I think that he does not intervene if he thinks that the case is being dealt with as it should be. They identified the culprits that killed the couple, arrested them and they will be tried.
Now I suppose that if they identified the culprits and then sent them home without even submitting them to a grand jury, then THAT might case the president to urge that the proper procedures be followed. That is what he did in the Martin/Zimmerman case.
I don't think you understood what I said.
Presidents do not usually get involved in crimes . They let the locals handle them. That seems to be fine with me.
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Now I suppose that if they identified the culprits and then sent them home without even submitting them to a grand jury, then THAT might case the president to urge that the proper procedures be followed. That is what he did in the Martin/Zimmerman case.
Uselessly and improperly and on the wrong side as it turns out.
And it does produce a smell of bias.
Do you suppose that the President would make a public objection to a white guy in a homemade paramilitary uniform standing at the entrance to a polling place with a club in his hand?
Good thing that didn't happen .
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/sep/13/black-panther-case-roars-back/
(http://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2009/05/29/20090528-220917-pic-603250881_c0-375-2000-1543_s250x146.jpg?6d62b448c488965c6cad1af91fa32c60d19b6708)
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There was certainly ample evidence for a grand jury in the Zimmerman case.\
It was not improper to do this, nor was it wrong.
Zimmerman and Martin were both assholes. Had either been reasonable people, they would both be living normal lives today.
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But this does nullify the claim about the often said "if it this happened to a white person....."
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It always makes sirs happy to say that. he is a fan of allegations of reverse discrimination. You can never please everyone. No matter how hard you try, someone will always think they are being treated unfairly.
But Obama not personally addressing a murder that appears to be handled properly is not really unfair.
Suppose Obama did call a press conference and denounce the two guys they accused, what would happen?
Their lawyers would claim that since the President Himself had denounced their horrible crime before they had their day in court, no fair trial would be possible, This would be followed by lengthy appeals. Lawyers LOVE lengthy appeals. They get paid by the hour. So there are good reasons for President Obama not getting involved. But sirs and CU4 loathe Obama, because he can never do anything right.
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But this does nullify the claim about the often said "if it this happened to a white person....."
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How does this count as a nullification?
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There was certainly ample evidence for a grand jury in the Zimmerman case.\
Oh?
The story Zimmerman told turned out to be accurate, what was in doubt?
What evidence are you referring to?
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It always makes sirs happy to say that. he is a fan of allegations of reverse discrimination. You can never please everyone. No matter how hard you try, someone will always think they are being treated unfairly.
Wow, you lie and misrepresent as good as your savior, Obama. Bravo >:(
No, sirs is NOT happy with ANY discrimination. The fact I point out how one sided its reported doesn't equate support for some equal amount of discrimination
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Zimmerman killed Martin. Therefore a grand jury hearing was essential. That is why Obama took up the case.
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Zimmerman shot someone in self defense, who happened to die. And Obama had no business taking up the case, but since it allowed him to play the race card, this supposed man who campaigned on bringing people together, simply demonstrated how bogus that pledge was as well
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Zimmerman killed Martin. Therefore a grand jury hearing was essential. That is why Obama took up the case.
No , when self defense is obvious and other possible explanations are not credible a grand jury hearing is not essential.
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It wasn't obvious.
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It was to all those who don't see everything thru a prism of racism
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That would be you. You are a fucking closet racist of the first order.
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Says the person who claims Blacks couldn't have made it in this country, without the aide of the "compassionate white liberal" ::) News Flash....closet racist you are not. You're right out in the open with it
Zimmerman/Martin was simply 1 person defending themself from the attack of a 2nd person. Victim happened to be hispanic, the aggressor happened to be black. The aggressor died from the victim defending himself with a firearm. That's all race had to do with anything. And yet folks like yourself & Obama went well beyond any common sense to inject race into an event where race had squat to do with it
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Zimmerman was an asshole that got too close to Martin. Martin was an asshole that refused to pay attention to Zimmerman. Martin paid for his stupidity and Big Swinging Dick attitude with his life, and Zimmerman surely knows by now that he was a fool. He screwed up his entire life by sticking his stupid nose where it did not belong.
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Your opinion of Zimmerman not-withstanding, Zimmerman was trying to keep his distance from Martin, while it was Martin that made it a point to "get close". And none of it having to do with race, despite yours and Obama's ignorant efforts to make it about race and some need for a grand jury
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Zimmerman got out of his fucking car.
I bet he wishes he had stayed in it.
If Martin had been White Zimmy would have waved and smiled and driven on by.
Zimmerman knows he fucked up. Zimmy is none too smart, but he is sure as Hell smarter than you.
And of course, Obama has no reason whatever to talk about the original crime, since it was handled as it should have been handled.
President Obama: also far far smarter than sirs.
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He wasn't legally required to stay inside his frickin car. Nor did he "try to get close". He merely was trying to keep an eye on someone acting suspicious, in his neighborhood. Nothing more. And he would have been doing it even if Martin was as white as Gwen Stefani. Race had squat to do with this, despite yours and Obama's overt ignorance on the subject
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If Zimmerman was here, he would tell you that he fucked up.
This is because, although he was stupid, he now knows that what he did was stupid, and is therefore smarter than you.
There are LOTS of stupid things that are not illegal.
Zimmerman getting out of his car: very stupid.
Zimmerman with $1,000,000 in his Paypal account before they even asked him to come it not leaving the country: REALLY stupid.
Zimmerman and the rest of the planet knows how stupid he was.
You may be the only one that cannot see stupidity when he sees it.
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If Martin had been White Zimmy would have waved and smiled and driven on by.
Oh?
Is there any evidence or indication of this at all?
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Xo seems to be getting off on trying to make this some level of stupid. Funny how when defending oneself, it culminated in it being some form of stupidity
EVERYONE does stupid things. I've done stupid things. Xo provides examples frequently. No one has the gift of premonition. There was nothing wrong with, or even stupid. for a concerned citizen to step out of his car to try and keep tabs on someone he believed suspicious. There was no indication that Martin would attack Zimmerman. The fact he did is simply what did occur. Zimmerman reacted as best he could with confronted with the possibility of losing his life. Had Zimmerman the gift of premonition, and knew he would be attacked, and still got out of his car, then THAT might be considered stupid. He doesn't, so it wasn't. Simple as that
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Zimmerman knew that if he stayed in his car, he could always just drive down the street and call the cops.
The important thing about risk is avoiding it unless the is something important to be gained from not avoiding it.
In this case, there was no reason to get out of his car.
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Sorry, you don't have that ability at reading Zimmerman's mind. So, it was neither stupid nor expected for a concernced citizen to leave his car to keep an eye on someone he believed suspiscious. This is validated by the fact he did call the police, so that he could relay where Martin's latest position was. He couldnt' have done that by staying in his car. In other words, he was avoiding "getting close". He couldn't have anticipated he'd be attacked
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Zimmerman was stupid, and if he were here, and honest he would say "I was stupid".
His stupid action had seriously impacted his life and career. No good has come from his stupidity.
He had no good reason to get out of his car and every good reason to just drive on down the street and call the cops. Even the police told him to do just that, anfd it was clearly what he should have done. He was not any sort of official neighborhood watch.
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What he did was point out a very dangerous flaw in the law. You can ignore a 911 warning and place yourself in greater danger legally. now we know its still selfdefense even though your knowing to into greater risk
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No law can sure stupid. He was told to stay in his car by the people at 911 and he was stupid and refused to follow their advice.
I bet sirs, as dumb as he is, would have stayed in his car as well.
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He was not told, it was suggested, and he had no legal mandate to stay. Period.
Your opinion of Zimmerman's actions AFTER the fact are duly noted. His actions DURING the fact, were well within reason, since he would have no way of knowing he'd be attacked for simply keeping an eye on someone suspicious, until the police arrived
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I did state legally 911 can be ignore. But im stating the risk is higher. But note anyone who jobs involved 911 cannot ignore it or face termination. Im not allow to ignore it and all my co-workers cant also.
I think zimmerman may of risked his watch duty by ignoring it also.
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Precisely. It's easy, and intellectually lazy now, to claim he acted stupid. We all can look back at past actions, and determine what we could have done better. That's how we learn so much. Based on everything we've been privy to, Zimmerman acted with a conscious effort to simply keep an eye on someone he believed was acting suspiciously, until the police he had contacted, arrived. This belief was validated by how he was subsequently attacked by Martin.
Yes, had he stayed in his car, Martin would likely be alive today.
It can also be said, that had Martin not attacked and beating Zimmerman to a pulp, he'd still be alive today as well
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I think there is a wide disparity between walking about and eyeballing someone , and jumping onto someone and slamming their head onto the pavement.
You may argue that both were not the smartest possible choice , but there is no equivalence .
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Both Martin and Zimmerman were stupid fools acting out their macho.
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I do not accept the equivalence.
Which one had no right to walk around in his home neighborhood?
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You can have rights, but there is also such a thing as stupid. Both Martin and Zimmerman has a "right" to be walking about in the rain. Both were stupid guys looking for trouble. I could run out of innocent electrons enumerating all the stupid things I have a right to do that I refrain from doing because they are stupid.
If you pick a fight, you are likely to find one. They were both trying to pick a fight.
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I think there is a wide disparity between walking about and eyeballing someone , and jumping onto someone and slamming their head onto the pavement.
You may argue that both were not the smartest possible choice , but there is no equivalence .
100% agreed
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You can have rights, but there is also such a thing as stupid. Both Martin and Zimmerman has a "right" to be walking about in the rain. Both were stupid guys looking for trouble. I could run out of innocent electrons enumerating all the stupid things I have a right to do that I refrain from doing because they are stupid.
If you pick a fight, you are likely to find one. They were both trying to pick a fight.
You are insisting on equivalence?
When they were both walking about and being suspicious there may have been equivalence.
But Travon Martin acted on his suspicion with a physical attack, Mr. Zimmerman acted on his suspicion with a call to the police.
This is not equivalent.
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BINGO!!