DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Xavier_Onassis on July 09, 2016, 09:57:08 AM
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You end up with crazy snipers who are excellent shots and kill lots more citizens.
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Can't we have this without the war?
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When men see in a war zone that problems can easily be solved by killing others and threatening the rest with guns, they remember this.
When I was a child, my parents told me how awful the Nazis were because they busted into houses inthe middle of the night and arrested people for no good reason.
That is precisely what our taxes paid our army to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. They did not speak the language, they could not understand the people, they were simply well equipped and well armed thugs. People spent months in Abu Graib and no one knew why they had been arrested.
Of course, after the war, the same troops needed work and since they had great weapons training, they joined the police.
The chickens have come home to roost. Some of the ex military, like Tim Mc Veith, John Allen Muhammad (the DC Beltway shooter) and the latest Dallas shooter did not become cops, They simply became mass murderers.
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And would have been mass murderers regardless of gun access. Last I checked, McVei killed with fertilizer. It's not about the guns. Nor are we emplying nazi tactics, of busting down doors for no reason. The only thing remotely fascist, is the current polices and agenda of trying to disarm the populace by leftists who think they know better. We fought wars to demonstrate just how wrong they were
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When men see in a war zone that problems can easily be solved by killing others and threatening the rest with guns, they remember this.
Has there really been a lot of people return from combat saying that combat is the easy way?
I don't think this is a real explanation for anything.
Most people who have seen combat , do not like the stuff.
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Ok XO
to end endless war with worldwide control freaks...IslamoNazis and others
I would approve of the US becoming a total isolationist country
shutting down the borders completely
building walls north and south
thank God for the Pacific and Atlantic...not many mongrels can walk in that way!
and thus not be the worlds policeman
and there would be no more endless wars for us
we'd save tons of money
could spend that money on Americans
America First!
we don't need anyone else...we'd survive just fine
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Most people who have seen combat , do not like the stuff.
That's an understatement
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Observe that those who have mongered our wars have never actually personally fought them.
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Which means absolutely nothing, since your decisions as President, are based on those recommendations, of those who have
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The people who do the actual fighting are not the ones fighting the wars.
Warming an office chair is not fighting.
Cheney and Juniorbush decided we would invade Iraq before 9-11. Blair, it seems, backed him all the way.
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The people who do the actual fighting are not the ones fighting the wars.
Apples/oranges. A President surrounds himself with those who HAVE, when making decisions about war. You think Obama is making all the Afghanistan decisions by himself?? Do you not recall, that when he was running for President, he made it clear that Bush was simply waging the wrong war. Per Obama, he had every intention of mongering a war in Afghanistan, following 911. I realize facts to a toe tag liberal is like kryptonite to Superman, but las I checked, Obama had squat exposure to anything military
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Observe that those who have mongered our wars have never actually personally fought them.
Does this mean that you would vote for Teddy Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy, Bob Dole, John McCain or another distinguished Veteran?
Perhaps John Kerry? Not my favorite example , but a genuine veteran .
I dispute the premise of your statement , and adjure you to not request what you really do not want.
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I would not vote for anyone simply because he was a veteran,
I did not voter for Bob Dole or John McCain.
I would probably have voted for JFK, but the alternative was worse, I was too young to vote in 1960.
I would have voted for Adlai Stevenson.
I did vote for Kerry, because Juniorbush was a fool, as he still is to this very day.
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I would not vote for anyone simply because he was a veteran,
Well then , don't complain that fighters are not available as leaders.
People who have fought know how awful it is and know more about why it is worthwhile to avoid .
Congress used to have a lot of vets , now that there are fewer and we are about to elect a short tempered person , no to mention that we are already at war in the longest war ever for us...
I think veteran status would have been a plus, it just isn't available right now.
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BINGO
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Thanks sirs.
As a thought experiment , consider Heinlein's Starship Troopers a society in which only those who have served in the military are ever allowed to vote or hold significant office.
Would we be more warlike or less in that circumstance?
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Hmmm......good question. I'm not sure I could be completely unbiased in my answer. I would like to think it'd be like a deterrent, as though being so connected with the military, would make us less likely to be attacked by enemies. But that may be too Hollywood thinking. I also can't escape the notion of a Nazi war machine, where you either were part of the 3rd Reich, directly supported it, or.....were always looking over your back, since you were made to be unarmed by the state
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Haha!
You beat me to the point I was going for!
Simple solutions , often are not.
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I do what I can. 8)
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As a thought experiment , consider Heinlein's Starship Troopers a society in which only those who have served in the military are ever allowed to vote or hold significant office.
Would we be more warlike or less in that circumstance?
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We would cease to be a democracy, and we would be stupid to allow this.\
Of course, it would never happen.
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Well that made absolutely zero sense. Bravo on the contribution
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It makes TOTALLY PERFECT sense to say that denying the vote to non-veterans would be the end of democracy. AS I recall, this was the law in Sparta, so it is not new.
Heinlein often included speculation of this sort of thing in hos books,and I doubt if he proposed it as something we should do. But Heinlein was a naval officer and he lived in a time of endless war, so the speculation is a valid one.
The question whether we should be an Athens or a Sparta was a common one in the `1950's Those who chose Sparta tended to send their sons off to military school, th "make a man of him" sooner than the eligible age for enlistment, Sort of like teaching your kid to read at home before the first grade, but for militarists.
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ahhh, then you're catching on to the point both Plane & I were making. Good progress
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It is pretty easy to understand fools. I often feign miscomprehension to elucidate more dumb statements from you, sirs.
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And your ongoing, transparent attempts to use me as as crutch to your gross inability to grasp a point being made or refute a point being made is indeed noted for all to see & appreciated
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See?
It works!
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Indeed. .... thanks for the validation