DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Richpo64 on November 25, 2007, 06:24:31 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Rf42zNl9U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Rf42zNl9U)
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In 2006, 10,942 Americans went to Canada, compared with 9,262 in 2005 and 5,828 in 2000, according to a survey by the Association for Canadian Studies....
http://drhelen.blogspot.com/2007/08/number-of-americans-moving-to-canada-in.html
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Good riddance. Do liberals going North negate the story I posted?
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Good riddance. Do liberals going North negate the story I posted?
Related indirectly.
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"Those who are coming have the highest level of education ? these aren't people who can't get a job in the states," he says. "They're coming because many of them don't like the politics, the Iraq War and the security situation in the U.S. By comparison, Canada is a tension-free place. People feel safer."
One recent immigrant is Tom Kertes, a 34-year-old labor organizer who moved from Seattle to Toronto in April.
That's hilarious! We have people like labor organizers fleeing the US for Canada, while people like doctors and IT professionals are fleeing Canada for the US, and we're supposed to regard this as bad news?
Kertes, who moved with his partner, is happy in his new home. "Canada is a really nice country. My mother is thinking about it. My stepfather has diabetes and has health issues. So, he'd be taken care of for free if he moved up here."
"For free", eh? Well, if Canada doesn't have a problem with attracting our parasites, I have no problem with their leaving! Good riddance!
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uhm
just saw the vid
true it`s bad
but the points is
it cost 28k
mortgage a home ???
notice on this issue the talk about how expensive healthcare is is hardly talled about
cat scans is 4k
a er stay is 5k
don`t forget if that man was american with a HMO he would probly still not get the test.
MRI`s are expensive and doctor don`t have that much of a say on what test to give.
healthcare is crumbling in canada ,but that`s because it`s expensive
no one is talking about loweingr cost.
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>>Related indirectly.<<
Really? It doesn't even address the charges made by the Canadians in my post.
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Canadians and Americans have chosen to ration healthcare in different ways.
Canadians declare that everyone has a right to decent healthcare, but scanners and surgery are expensive and scarce, so people have to wait. Every Canadian from Yellowknife to Halifax gets care for free, but they have to wait. This fellow could have waited and probably everything would have turned out OK, but HE MIGHT have had type four whatsiosis, and in the rare event that he did, he's be dead before he got cared for.
Americans basically say that everyone has a right that can pay huge amounts of money for healthcare, so those that cannot raise $28,000 can crawl off and die somewhere.
The moral of the story is that you can get excellent heathcare for free most of the time in Canada, but in a few cases, you get to do what Americans do: pay through the nose.
Most people in Canada (and everywhere else) do not have critical conditions, and those people are better off.
If this guy had lived in Buffalo instead of Ontario, he would still have had to pay $28,000, and he would have been totally unable to sue anyone at all. He would have definitely been screwed.
But since he lived in Canada, there is a good chance that he can get the provincial government to pick up the tab.
So he is BETTER OFF in Ontario then Buffalo, any way you look at it.
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here`s a question
for a mcdonald`s employee which country is better off to get a MRI?
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here`s a question
for a mcdonald`s employee which country is better off to get a MRI?
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A McDonald's employee would be better paid in Canada, because the minimum wage is higher.
I doubt that a McDonald's employee would have $4000 for an MRI, so in the US he'd do without. I don't think any bank would lend $4000 for an MRI. Perhaps a judicious number of credit cards might work, followed by a declaration of bankruptcy.
In Canada, he'd just wait. Eventually, he'd get his MRI if his doctor recommended it.
Eventually, in four months, is far better than 'never'.
Canada 1, USA, 0
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I doubt that a McDonald's employee would have $4000 for an MRI, so in the US he'd do without.
Unless he had insurance.
Contrary to what Kimba says, HMOs will pay for an MRI if the treating physicians orders it.
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Mickey D doesn't offer affordable health insurance to most of its workers. If you are over 65, you could get an HMO with Part B of Medicare for $96.40 a month, payable three months at a time, soon to go up another $6 or $7 per month.
Perhaps a professor of Catsupology ay Hamburger University, or maybe Mayor McCheese himself makes that much, but not the average minimum wage burgerflipper, who probably makes even less than the Hamburglar.
In Canada, all the burgerflippers are insured by virtue of being Ontarians first and burgerflippers second.
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>>for a mcdonald`s employee which country is better off to get a MRI?<<
In America, I'm sure the McDonald's employee's parents have insurance so unlike Canada he/she wouldn't have to wait 8 weeks.
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Mickey D doesn't offer affordable health insurance to most of its workers.
I guess you'll have to define "affordable health insurance." Most of the "burger flippers" as you term them are high school students who are covered under their parent's health care plans. Most of the adults are higher up, and get significantly more pay.
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actually I don`t think many high school kids do MC d`s
I was in college when I did it and all my co-worker are college to middle-age.
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actually I don`t think many high school kids do MC d`s
I was in college when I did it and all my co-worker are college to middle-age.
Then you were in a Mickey D's close to a college. Most Mickey D's I've been in have had high school students doing the bulk of the work, except those right next to college campuses.
Besides, the point still stands - most college students are covered under their parent's health care plans.
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>>actually I don`t think many high school kids do MC d`s. I was in college when I did it and all my co-worker are college to middle-age.<<
Okay, then you were covered by your parents health insurance as are all college students.
As for middle aged McDonald's workers, I'd guess they aren't the main bread winners and would be covered by their spouses insurance.
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that`s a interesting subject
it`s assumed family are covered by the income earners insurance.
correct me if i`m wrong but don`t spouses and children cost a gool deal more for the incomer to cover?
I have a friend who quit and workerd at another firm because the insurance coverage cost less.
the cost is s high ,maybe family are not covered
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it`s assumed family are covered by the income earners insurance.
That's because one income earner usually works for the health care insurance offered by the company. In the past, I was the sole breadwinner, so I covered the bills as well as health care. Since my daughter has graduated, my wife works for a company that offers good health care benefits, and I can do consulting, which pays better but the health care benefits generally suck.
That's just the way it is usually done.
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>>correct me if i`m wrong but don`t spouses and children cost a gool deal more for the incomer to cover?
The more people insured, the more it costs the insured. It's hardly prohibitive though.
>>I have a friend who quit and workerd at another firm because the insurance coverage cost less.<<
Ain't America great? If your friend lived in Canada she would have no choice in healthcare. Socialized Medicine = Don't like it? Lump it.
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true
but she would also have a better chance of buying a house in canada also.
medicine is more available in the U.S. ,but it`s definately not exactly affordable.
note the couple had the money to cover it.
and stated they would have to go into debt otherwise.
and also note they still want a refund.
it`s not much of a slam on canadian healthcare if they still want the system to still pickup the tab.
in the U.S. the couple would have nobody to pickup the tab.
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Most of the "burger flippers" as you term them are high school students who are covered under their parent's health care plans. Most of the adults are higher up, and get significantly more pay.
I doubt that most of the McD employees here in Miami have any sort of insurance. They are not middle-class kids. In my neighborhood, they are mostly Haitians and a few Latinos and barely speak English. I seriously doubt that their parents have any sort of insurance at all, as they work at crappy jobs like cab drivers and nursing home flunkies.
Again, the Canadians MIGHT have to pay $28,000; the same couple in the USA would HAVE to pay $28,000 and would ave no hope of ever being reimbursed. This guy worked in an autobody shop. Very unlikely that he would have any decent medical insurance if he lived in the USA.
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Again, the Canadians MIGHT have to pay $28,000; the same couple in the USA would HAVE to pay $28,000 and would ave no hope of ever being reimbursed.
Where do you get this number? Pull it out of your hat?
A couple weeks ago I priced family coverage in Maryland to rebut a post of Lanya's. I found an insurance plan that ran about $200 per month, which totals to $2,400 a year. It wasn't great coverage, but it was adequate for a family that was generally healthy, and would prevent them losing everything if there was a catastrophic illness. Out of pocket could run as much as $5,000 a year for the family. So, if they had to use the plan to the max, it would cost the family just $7,400 a year maximum.
Do you just make up your "facts"?
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Matter of fact, XO, I have an excellent medical plan. Very good coverage, with $0 co-pays for office visits, $0 co-pays for prescription drugs, and $0 co-pays for emergency care.
The coverage cost, including the part the employer pays, is $9,600 a year. I have no idea where you came up with your $28,000 a year figure.
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uhm
I got that from the video by this post
it`s the amount that lawyer is asking to be refunded
also
I just got a bill for my dad being in the ER last month for 13k+
so 28k is not a crazy amount at all
it might be cheap even
I`m in the precess to get it wiped-off from his insurance.
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Insert Quote
Matter of fact, XO, I have an excellent medical plan. Very good coverage, with $0 co-pays for office visits, $0 co-pays for prescription drugs, and $0 co-pays for emergency care.
The coverage cost, including the part the employer pays, is $9,600 a year. I have no idea where you came up with your $28,000 a year figure.
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The $28,000 is what the Canadian had to pay for his treatment. Perhaps you didn't actually read the original post.
As for your insurance, O goody for you. But this fellow was not some sort of consultant; he worked in an autobody shop, which would most likely prevent him from getting your excellent (9,600 per year?) insurance nor McDonald's.
Perhaps you are unaware that you are not typical.
Had this guy waited for the scan and treatment, he would have lived, and he would still have his $28,000.
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>>but she would also have a better chance of buying a house in canada also.<<
Really? How come? Have you checked the market here in the States lately? I'll be putting my house on the market in March. Give me a call, I'll make you a deal.
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>>Where do you get this number? Pull it out of your hat?<<
I'm guessing he pulled it our from someplace a lot lower, per usual.
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As for your insurance, O goody for you. But this fellow was not some sort of consultant; he worked in an autobody shop, which would most likely prevent him from getting your excellent (9,600 per year?) insurance nor McDonald's.
Why? That amount, as I said, included the employer's portion. Any Joe Blow could contact the insurance company and get a similar plan. And as I also pointed out, there are many CHEAPER plans that would have also covered the tests.
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But....but...Ami. That's sending the wrong message, that individuals should be responsible for their own healthcare, should facilitate actions in trying to take care of themselves. I mean.....that's just so wrong
;)
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If this guy paid the same $9600 per year as you do for his insurance, in three years he would have paid the $28,000 his medical care in Buffalo cost him. If he had invested his money wisely three years ago in some Canadian fund in Canadian dollars, he'd be ahead of you and your astonishing plan.
Anyone that can pay $9600 a year can also save $9600 a year. Most won't, but you can't deny that it is possible. Invested wisely, you could have $38000 after three years.
As it is, he has paid $28,000, he is alive and well, and he MIGHT get his some or part of $28,000 reimbursed by the Province.
So he's still better off in Ontario.
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If this guy paid the same $9600 per year as you do for his insurance, in three years he would have paid the $28,000 his medical care in Buffalo cost him.
I don't pay the $9,600 as ~ 2/3 of the cost are paid by the employer. As I pointed out, he could have opted for a plan that only cost around $2,400 a year, which would have also paid for the tests.
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If this guy paid the same $9600 per year as you do for his insurance, in three years he would have paid the $28,000 his medical care in Buffalo cost him. If he had invested his money wisely three years ago in some Canadian fund in Canadian dollars, he'd be ahead of you and your astonishing plan.
Anyone that can pay $9600 a year can also save $9600 a year. Most won't, but you can't deny that it is possible. Invested wisely, you could have $38000 after three years.
As it is, he has paid $28,000, he is alive and well, and he MIGHT get his some or part of $28,000 reimbursed by the Province.
So he's still better off in Ontario.
What keeps taxes from being an equal cost?