DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: MissusDe on October 05, 2008, 03:01:34 AM
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With a Wink and a Smile
A citizen-politician runs for veep.
By Mark Steyn
Back in February, several political lifetimes ago, I was on the radio with Laura Ingraham and she played Stevie Wonder?s campaign song for Barack Obama, whose lyric, in its entirety, runs:
Ba-rack O-ba-ma
Ba-a-rack O-ba-a-ma
Ba-ra-ack Obama-a...
(Repeat until coronation.)
And Laura and I had a good laugh about it, until it occurred to me that, in politics as in pop, the tune is more important than the words. A guy can run for president with all the right lyrics ? on the war, the economy, the social issues ? but what matters is whether people respond to the underlying music: not what he?s saying, but how he?s saying it. At the time, I was reflecting on Mitt Romney: The song looked great on paper, but when he stuck it on the stand and started to warble it never quite soared.
That?s where Sarah Palin scored in the vice-presidential showdown. A lot of the grandees in the post-debate analysis reviewed the lyrics and missed the music. Whereas, I would wager, a big chunk of uncommitted voters out in TV land listened to Governor Palin, and liked the tune they were hearing. If you?re one of those coastal feminists who despise Alaska?s sweetheart as a chillbilly breeder whose knowledge of foreign policy is as full of holes as the last moose to make the mistake of strolling past her deck, Thursday night?s folksy performance isn?t going to change your view. But, if your contempt for her wasn?t already chiseled in granite, she came over as genuine, confident ?and different. Change you can believe in, to coin a phrase.
I was a bit alarmed at first. I hadn?t seen her for awhile, not since the halfwits at the McCain campaign walled her up in the witness protection program and permitted visitations only by selected poobahs of the Metamucil networks. When she walked out on stage, her famous reach-for-the-skies up-do seemed a bit subdued and earthbound, like a low-budget remake of the famous scene in There?s Something About Mary. Then she started speaking. The lyrics were workmanlike, but the music was effective. I have a couple of favorite snapshots from the evening. One was when Governor Sarah Palin said that John McCain hadn?t required her to check her principles at the door, and she still believed in drilling in ANWR and she was hoping to bring him round on that. And then she grinned and gave a mischievous wink into the camera, and to the nation.
?Don?t sell the American people short,? said Obama honcho David Axelrod. ?They need more than a wink and a smile.? Okay, so how about this? Joe Biden mocked the McCain campaign?s energy policy as ?Drill, drill, drill?, and the governor came back to correct the line: ?It?s not ?Drill, drill, drill?,? she grinned. ?It?s ?Drill, baby, drill!??
To be sure, if you listened to the lyrics ? the policy, the facts, the platform ? they weren?t always what you wanted to hear. Governor Palin?s riff on education quickly descended into a rote call for more spending, even though America already spends more per pupil than any advanced nation other than Switzerland and has less to show for it. And more than once you pined for a more devastating putdown: The Obama ?plan? to ?end? the war was, more precisely, a plan to lose the war, and in a healthy political culture would disqualify him from serious contention. If I?d been in charge of ?coaching? Governor Palin, I?d take her out back, and set up the various Obama policy platforms as cardboard elk, lurking in the protective undergrowth of the mainstream media but still eminently hittable to a crack shot.
By contrast, Senator Biden was glib and fluent and in command of the facts ? if by ?in command of the facts? you mean ?talks complete blithering balderdash and hogwash.? He flatly declared that Obama never said he would meet Ahmadinejad without preconditions. But, on Debate Night, the official Obama website was still boasting that he would meet Ahmadinejad ?without preconditions?. He said America spends more in a month in Iraq than it?s spent in seven years in Afghanistan. Er, America has spent over $700 billion in Afghanistan since 2001. It?s spending about $10 billion a month in Iraq. But no matter. To demonstrate his command of the ?facts?, Senator Biden sportingly offered up his own instant replays:
?My friend John McCain voted 422 times against tax cuts for the middle classes. Let me repeat that so the American people are clear on this. My friend John McCain voted 673 times against tax cuts for the middle classes.?
The problem was that it all sounded drearily senatorial. Mention any global crisis ? civil war in Bosnia, genocide in Darfur, Russian aggression in Georgia, the lack of five-star restaurants in Wales ? and Biden has been there, usually within the last two weeks, and always at public expense. What the American taxpayer gets for the Emir of Delaware?s frequent-flyer miles is harder to discern. Biden was doing his best to turn in a decent karaoke version of Lloyd Bentsen, but, unfortunately, Governor Palin declined to play Dan Quayle. That left Joe sounding like an ancient pol being generically vice-presidential. Sarah, at her best, sounded like the citizen-politician this country?s Founders intended. She hasn?t voted 397 times against this or that in the U.S. Senate, because she?s been running a state, and a town, and a commercial fishing operation. She?s a doer, not a talker, which is why so many of my fellow professional talkers disdain her.
When Regular Joe Six-Pack Bluecollar Biden tried to match her on the Main Street cred, it rang slightly wacky. ?Look,? he said, ?All you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie?s Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me, where I spend a lot of time.? Why? Is he moonlighting as a checkout clerk on the evening shift? Or is he stalking that nice lady in Lighting Fixtures? As for Katie?s Restaurant, ah, I?m sure it was grand but apparently it closed in 1990. In the Diner of the Mind, the refills are endless and Senator Joe is sitting shootin? the breeze over a cuppa joe with a couple other regular joes on adjoining stools while Betty-Jo, the sassy waitress who?s tough as nails but with a heart of gold, says Ol? Joe, the short-order cook who?s doing his Sloppy Joes just the way the Senator likes ?em, really appreciates the way that, despite 78 years in Washington, Joe Biden is still just the same regular Joe Six-Pack he was when he and Norman Rockwell first came in for a sarsaparilla all those years ago. But, alas, while he was jetting off for one-to-one talks with the Deputy Tourism Minister of Waziristan, the old neighborhood changed.
In a conventional presidential environment, Bidenesque fake authenticity would be enough. Up against Sarah Palin?s authentic authenticity, I?m not so sure. All I know is that the McCain campaign should have her out on the road and doing every interview she can over this final month. Oh, and send her snowmobiling hubby to Maine, which splits its electoral college votes. He?ll put their Second Congressional District back in the red camp, and the way things are looking that could be the 270th vote that saves McCain?s bacon.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmNjYTc3NzFiZGU1NjM2YmQ3NmMzNTM3NjJlNGMzMjU= (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmNjYTc3NzFiZGU1NjM2YmQ3NmMzNTM3NjJlNGMzMjU=)
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Hahahahahahaa!
Excelent!
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The miracle of selective editing. Left out, for example, was Biden's little zinger that Palin had left Wasilla $20 million in debt.
Biden didn't shine and Palin didn't self-destruct. And, yeah, he's an old guy but guess what? McCain's older.
I don't know why Steyn thinks that "drill baby drill" is any less moronic or offensive than "drill drill drill" unless he found more sexual innuendo in the former slogan, but maybe that's what Sarah was offering, on a purely subliminal level, of course. She did say it with a pretty fetching smile, and she is still a very attractive woman. "Drill, baby, drill," eh? Why Sarah Palin, my gosh,how could you?
And how's this for being out of touch?
<<When Regular Joe Six-Pack Bluecollar Biden tried to match her on the Main Street cred, it rang slightly wacky. "Look," he said, "All you have to do is . . . walk into Home Depot with me, where I spend a lot of time." Why? Is he moonlighting as a checkout clerk on the evening shift? Or is he stalking that nice lady in Lighting Fixtures?">>
Joe Biden doesn't own 8 homes with a household staff on an annual payroll over a quarter-million dollars. Biden, one of the LEAST affluent Senators on Capitol Hill, owns ONE home and obviously does not and probably cannot afford to, call in a tradesman every time a toilet starts to gurgle or a light socket won't light up or some new shelving is needed or an eavestrough starts to leak. The McCains obviously call in a contractor, Todd Palin and Joe Biden probably, as do I, have to spend some time in Home Depot. Steyn, hilariously, can't think of any reason to spend a lot of time in Home Depot unless, of course, one is stalking one of the sales clerks. And he thinks BIDEN "rang slightly wacky?" Honestly.
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And he thinks BIDEN "rang slightly wacky?" Honestly.
Biden forgot who he was talking to .
Sara Palin struck no one as being out of touch with the common people .
Biden was strugglin to say that he was a good freind of Joe Six Pack , but trying to bounce it off of the Alaskan was whacky.
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"My thoughts" qualified by the fact that in "my opinion” most political campaigns are run on BULLSHIT of the grandiose, emotion grabbing kind that appear to be a small expensive meal with much useless drizzle and garnish around the plate so that your eyes don't tell you that you will be starving in 30 minutes.
Palin came across as someone one we can “relate to,” in the masses. She was refreshing and real, showing no sign of being a ball-busting bitch (that so many women with political ambition and power are hung with). I don’t think that Hilary even managed that and I do believe that is Hilary had been the Dem. ticket this would have been an entirely different race. Let’s not pretend that the Clinton’s are anything other than moderates. It was easy for them to steal (votes) from both sides.
But we are not talking about a Clinton / McCain election so there is much less middle ground for middle ground people to hang their votes. There are many factors that will be considered in this election but just looking at the minority issues.
Start with the obvious:
Obama is black (though barely and that could hurt him because there are many militant blacks that would consider him an “uncle Tom.”
Historically the Democrats have tried to get out the vote in the black non-voting areas. They did this during the Obama/Clinton campaign...one can only tell Hilary that you live by the sword... but that is another issue. My point is will these people come out and vote again? Historically they have not.
We cannot presume that this time they will not as we are in a huge economic downturn and there are a lot of hands out waiting for the government to come up with more programs to give them money and more government big sticks to punish business.
That said, let us not pretend that there are some who would just a soon not have a black president. Oh, I know that many will scream racism but that is just passive aggressive tactics that try to bully people into being afraid to state their opinions. I for one am not. I do not wish to elect a President that will have so many hands to fill once he is elected. People cried out in regards to George Bush’s religious base and what it would do to our freedoms. I hope that the cry will be no less when one considers the cost of government intervention in the arena of hand out programs. Part of my concern is that while the President of the United States wields a lot of power, it is the political machine that runs us over.
We cannot leave out the bleeding liberal entertainment community. I have a real problem with those that are so rich choosing to ‘give the poor a fish rather than teach them how to fish’ mentality.
Giving people “things” does not work... it doesn’t make them value the ‘thing’ or figure out how to get the ‘thing’ on their own. It just instills a family / community ideology that someone should give it to them because they don’t have it.
The second obvious - Palin is a woman and a “Chillbilly” as the west coast liberals call her. Not the minority of choice I am afraid.
While McCain has a lot of experience and has been very active in his government positions, he does not come across with much personality. Though let me interject that watching Obama swagger and speak to the side of room rather than us is annoying to me. I am concerned that McCain may end up being perceived as weak and frail. Palin will do a lot for him in this arena. I also think that her demeanor will get a lot of voters that are unsure about the rhetoric, i.e. it is over their heads, will tend to trust her. This appears to be an option that few candidates have been able to present before and that is a person that comes across as ‘Jane average American.’ Before all of you naysayers get on your high horse about having someone with not much of a record in politics consider two things. 1. Obama hasn’t done much; and, 2. Those with lots of experience have not done such a great job either.
I enjoyed the debate between Biden and Palin. I enjoyed that Biden came off rehearsed and threatened (women are the weaker sex) and how Palin came off as warm and inclusive and frankly quite charming. I loved how the pundits proclaimed that she would not be able to speak based on the Couric interview. My thoughts on Couric, is that she needs to go back to morning chatter or retire. Why entertainers think that when they get wrinkles it grows a brain is beyond me.
Well I think I have ranted enough this morning. I will apologize now if I seem to disappear into the woodwork again but lots of work tomorrow and then three days of ‘road trip’ for work.
Cro
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<<Biden was strugglin to say that he was a good freind of Joe Six Pack , but trying to bounce it off of the Alaskan was whacky.>>
You're right that Biden was awkward and not all that credible in trying to establish his Joe Six-Pack cred on the same stage as Palin, who did seem to be the more authentic article.
My point was that it was STEYN, not Biden, who came across as really, truly wacky when discussing Biden's time spent at Home Hardware.
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The second obvious - Palin is a woman and a “Chillbilly” as the west coast liberals call her. Not the minority of choice I am afraid.
Women are not a minority at all , if a significant number of previously apathetic women vote because they like her , they may discover their majority status.
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Women are not a minority of the voters.
But they do not vote as a bloc, and probably never will in the US.
They are a minority politically, because they are a minority of elected officials.
It is much more likely that they will be more on a par with men in this respect in Western Europe than in the US, because our culture is more fundie Christian. Americans read mysogonistic stuff in the Bible like Paul, Europeans don;lt believe it and ignore it, to a greater degree.
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Governor Palin's riff on education quickly descended into a rote call for more spending, even though America already spends more per pupil than any advanced nation other than Switzerland and has less to show for it. And more than once you pined for a more devastating putdown: The Obama "plan" to "end" the war was, more precisely, a plan to lose the war, and in a healthy political culture would disqualify him from serious contention
Why is this NOT being emphasized by the GOP?
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Why is this NOT being emphasized by the GOP?
Perhaps they lack your towering intellect. You should join them. You would fit in just fine.
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Naaaaa......I don't drink the party talking point swill like some on the left
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"Why is this NOT being emphasized by the GOP?"
Actually I think that McCain is trying to sell their own stuff and are trying to keep it about what he can do and not what Obama cannot.
I would love to see an election that people vote on what the person can do rather on that they have bought the other parties negativity. Hell, I would be thrilled if people bothered to find out for themselves rather than just be lazy and vote because of what they heard on Letterman's Top 10 list.
I would prefer that at least half of the voters just stayed home because many are just too stupid or lazy to have a vote.
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And to be honest, Cro, I'd like to see that too.....a campaign on why you should vote for me vs why you you shouldn't vote for him/her. Yet in today's day and age of "gotcha" politics, and 3 nanosecond attention span, just barely long enough for folks who don't spend time looking at the issues like us, and only remember the latest MSM sound bite, our desire to see the former is less and less likely
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I would prefer that at least half of the voters just stayed home because many are just too stupid or lazy to have a vote.
Considering that most years we get a voter turnout of less than 45%, I'd say you got your wish.
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It is pretty clear that there will be a greater than 45% turnout this year.
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It is pretty clear that there will be a greater than 45% turnout this year.
mores the pity..... one thing wrong with freedom, even the idiots get to partake
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Actually I think that McCain is trying to sell their own stuff and are trying to keep it about what he can do and not what Obama cannot.
Must not be watching the same McCain ads I am. Seems everything I see for McCain these days is slinging mud at Obama. At least Obama has a couple of ads telling us what he would do, without so much mud slinging.
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It is pretty clear that there will be a greater than 45% turnout this year.
mores the pity..... one thing wrong with freedom, even the idiots get to partake
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Why do you assume that those who vote most of the time are less idiotic than those who refrain from voting?
It seems to me that there is a mix of idiots and non-idiots in both groups.
General Petraeus says he does not vote, because his job is to follow orders. I can respect that, but I dont agree with it. But it';s a free country, so I won't say he has no right to his opinion.
I have observed that not one election in which I have voted was ever lost or won by one vote, so if I never voted, the results in 48 years of elections would have been unchanged. Some who have noticed this with regard to their own voting say that there is no reason to vote. That is hard to argue with.
It is pretty clear that at least SOME idiots vote, and others do not. The same is true for non-idiots.
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Actually I think that McCain is trying to sell their own stuff and are trying to keep it about what he can do and not what Obama cannot.
Must not be watching the same McCain ads I am. Seems everything I see for McCain these days is slinging mud at Obama. At least Obama has a couple of ads telling us what he would do, without so much mud slinging.
Yea, ....change you can supposedly believe in, change, in order to bring about much needed change, in which Obama will be the master changer for a changing country.
and all you get back after paying his taxes of course, is some change
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Yea, ....change you can supposedly believe in, change, in order to bring about much needed change, in which Obama will be the master changer for a changing country.
and all you get back after paying his taxes of course, is some change :D :D
Oooh! ha ha ha hee hee ho ho ! Sirs made a joke!
I strongly suspect that if Obama is elected, sirs will actually pay LESS to the IRS. I furthermore suspect that if is th case, he will not return it to the treasury.
? ? He'll have change, to jingle, jangle jingle. ? ?
[NOTE: the little ?s are really supposed to be musical notes]
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With the fed in the bailout business i doubt seriously if anyone one is getting a tax cut.
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>>With the fed in the bailout business i doubt seriously if anyone one is getting a tax cut.<<
Ain't that the truth. Look for unemployment to increase after Barry taxes those rich folks making 250K and above. Look for outsourceing of pizza delivery boys to begin shortly after.
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>>With the fed in the bailout business i doubt seriously if anyone one is getting a tax cut.<<
Ain't that the truth. Look for unemployment to increase after Barry taxes those rich folks making 250K and above.
Given that the majority of small & medium sized business in this country, that function above the 250K level, expect them to fire more workers and/or put in a hiring freeze, as they'll soon be mandated to provide health insurance as well. Watch those unemployment #'s start to skyrocket. Might want to start keeping our eyes on the misery index......see how soon Obama can pass Carter. But at least we'll have punished those greedy "rich" people for their successes. Oh, and let's not forget his effort to throw Iraq into a major civil war. The cherry on top
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WE can look forward to fewer maimed, blind, crippled and insane troops coming home and a reduced number of troops with PTSD. Corrupt Republican Pols in Alaska can look forward to more harassment from Palin, maybe some of them will be able to provide company for Ted Stevens. Fewer people will go bankrupt to pay for operations just to stay alive, the rest of the world will have a more positive view of the US, as it will seem that we have finally gotten over racism.
Once it becomes apparent that we have someone in charge that acts like a grown-up, the world economy will improve. A serious investigation of Wall Street and needed regulations will take place.
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Yea, ....change you can supposedly believe in, change, in order to bring about much needed change, in which Obama will be the master changer for a changing country.
and all you get back after paying his taxes of course, is some change
Yep, them's the Republican line. One of 'em, anyway. What I want to know is, what does McCain propose to do for us? I could care less what he thinks Obama will do; I want to know what his plans are.
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>>With the fed in the bailout business i doubt seriously if anyone one is getting a tax cut.<<
Ain't that the truth. Look for unemployment to increase after Barry taxes those rich folks making 250K and above. Look for outsourceing of pizza delivery boys to begin shortly after.
Once while I was delivering Pizza , I wondered if a Pizza could be cooked on its way to the destination?
The delivery truck would need an oven on the back an oven with at least six slots.
The home station woud try to send Pizza after six orders had come in and the driver would go to the home at the right distance for complete cooking first.
After the oven had heated all of the pizzas enough to cook it would automaticly reduce heat to keep the rest of the Pizzas warm through the delivery cycle , chooseing the route of delivery with a GPS map to minimise mileage.
My idea woud reduce the miles per delivery signifigantly and with the increase in fuel cost it becomes a better idea than it was when I first had it.
Ordinary delivery methods would have to be kept handy for slow periods , but an increased rate of delivery during high demand periods would be a secondary result.
Also , during the low heat part of the cycle a heat exchanger on the engine exaust might provide enough heat without use of additional fuel.
If the whole rig was running on NG I think that the economy of the thing would produce a compeditive advantage and the cleanliness would produce a goodpublic image.
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I am not sure this would be an improvement. I don't think there is much difficulty getting a pizza delivered while still plenty hot.
I don't recall ever getting a pizza or any other food that was not adequately hot, not even when I lived in Iowa, Missouri or Washington State. In Miami, keeping food hot is no problem.
If you are cooking the pizza on the way to the customer's houses, that means that every pizza delivery wagon would need to be inspected by the Board of Health. This would add to your cost.
You need more than a GPS to find the shortest route if you have multiple destinations. It could be done, but you'd need a special computer combined with the GPS.
Then there would be insurance on a vehicle that was merely modified, that would have a large propane tank and a lot of it burning. Imagine the lawsuits if one of these gets in a wreck and engulfs the Pizza guy and all the cute little girls in the other car in a giant ball of flames.
The GPS is a great idea, as this would save fuel.
An interesting thought, though.
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Yea, ....change you can supposedly believe in, change, in order to bring about much needed change, in which Obama will be the master changer for a changing country. And all you get back after paying his taxes of course, is some change
Yep, them's the Republican line. One of 'em, anyway. What I want to know is, what does McCain propose to do for us?
As little as possible hopefully, while winning the war agiast Militant islam. Both of which would be the polar opposite tacts under Obama.
I could care less what he thinks Obama will do; I want to know what his plans are.
You're fella's got it down.......change. How much more detail do you need H? sheeeesh
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I am not sure this would be an improvement. I don't think there is much difficulty getting a pizza delivered while still plenty hot.
I don't recall ever getting a pizza or any other food that was not adequately hot, not even when I lived in Iowa, Missouri or Washington State. In Miami, keeping food hot is no problem.
This is done by going from the store with a small number of Pizzas.
Each pair in an insulated bag.
The most I ever managed was four destinations on one trip , eliminateing some of the return trips to the store is the major advantage I was after.
I gotta admit that the safetya and insurance problem is important to solve before calling this idea practical.
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What I want to know is, what does McCain propose to do for us?
The summary page:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/issues/ (http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/issues/)
There are lots of links on that page, as well as on the pages those link to. Quite a bit of info there.
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It is pretty clear that there will be a greater than 45% turnout this year.
mores the pity..... one thing wrong with freedom, even the idiots get to partake
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Why do you assume that those who vote most of the time are less idiotic than those who refrain from voting?
It seems to me that there is a mix of idiots and non-idiots in both groups.
General Petraeus says he does not vote, because his job is to follow orders. I can respect that, but I dont agree with it. But it';s a free country, so I won't say he has no right to his opinion.
I have observed that not one election in which I have voted was ever lost or won by one vote, so if I never voted, the results in 48 years of elections would have been unchanged. Some who have noticed this with regard to their own voting say that there is no reason to vote. That is hard to argue with.
It is pretty clear that at least SOME idiots vote, and others do not. The same is true for non-idiots.
Actually I was counting my blessing on those that don't and thinking it is a pity that some that do ....oops, make that many that should not, do.
Regarding being wrong 48 times out of 48 times, I would suspect that a. you agree with me; and b. that maybe you should be one of those that does not (vote).
Just following the natural conclusion of your own progression.
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You misunderstood me. I did not say that I was "wrong" ie, voted for the loser, 48 of 48 times. I said that not once in 48 elections did my vote decide the election, that is, if I had not voted, it would have been a tie, and if I had voted for the other side, the othr guy would have won.
I always vote. I believe in democracy.
I might agree with you.
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You're fella's got it down.......change.
Doesn't make sense.
How much more detail do you need H?
More than just 'the other guy plans to raise taxes/wants to surrender in Iraq/associates with terrorists/blather/blather/blather'. I want mcCain to tell us what he is going to do, how he plans to do it, how he plans to fund it. I'm tired of hearing bullshit; I want to hear ideas. From both sides, actually, but Obama has already made a start. Will McCain? Or will he spend the rest of the campaign trying to trash Obama rather than address the issues?
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Asked and answered already. Even was done in this thread. Did you not check out Ami's link??
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>>WE can look forward to fewer maimed, blind, crippled and insane troops coming home and a reduced number of troops with PTSD.<<
This might be true for American military, but I'll bet civilians will be the ones suffering these calamities once we've got a ultra liberal in the WH.
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This might be true for American military, but I'll bet civilians will be the ones suffering these calamities once we've got a ultra liberal in the WH.
Explain how this could happen.
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>>Explain how this could happen.<<
What? No please?
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You never say please, why should I?
I suggest that you are full of it as usual and cannot justify the rot you spew.
I dare you to try.
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>>You never say please, why should I? I suggest that you are full of it as usual and cannot justify the rot you spew. I dare you to try.<<
You just don't seem to be able to help yourself do you.
<chuckle>
The list is already 2 pages long.
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>>This might be true for American military, but I'll bet civilians will be the ones suffering these calamities once we've got a ultra liberal in the WH.<<
Okay, since BT isn't around the explain it, here goes.
I suggest that if Barry wins and implement's his agenda we will be more likely to be attacked again on America soil. I believe this because liberals/Barry will make it easier for our enemies to attack us by gutting the Patriot Act or doing away with it completely. Liberals/Barry have stated they will not be proactive in the war against terror so the likelyhood of an attack will grow exponentially because of their lack of vigilance. All that being said it makes it more likely that civilians will be victims of terrorist attack than the military because under Barry the military will not be in harms way.
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No one has been made safer by being "proactive" and conquering, or tried to conquer, Iraq.
In fact there are nearly 4000 Americans that are now dead because of the invasion, and thousands more crippled and blind, legless, armless and insane.
Every war brings tragedy. The first Iraq War produced Tim McVeigh. Every month or so, we hear of some nut or another whose PTSD or other disorder causes him to shoot people, murder a wife, or die of "suicide by cop".
When there is no war, these things do not happen.
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>>When there is no war, these things do not happen.<<
So obviously wrong I don't think I need to try and depute it.
(http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2001-09/637785.jpg)
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What Iraqis were responsible for 9-11?
None.
YOur photo is irrelevant.
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I didn't bring up Iraq, you did. I referenced the war on terror and the liberal/Barry's unwillingness to prosecute said war. I gave my reasons. You claimed without the war in Iraq terrorist attacks would not happen. I then pointed out how obviously wrong that was by using a photo of the attack on 9-11. If you didn't understand the reference I'll explain. We weren't at war with ANYONE when we where attacked on 9-11 so it is as clear an an unmuddied lake that your comment was clearly wrong as to be not worth comment.
Try again.
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I didn't bring up Iraq, you did. I referenced the war on terror and the liberal/Barry's unwillingness to prosecute said war. I gave my reasons. You claimed without the war in Iraq terrorist attacks would not happen. I then pointed out how obviously wrong that was by using a photo of the attack on 9-11. If you didn't understand the reference I'll explain. We weren't at war with ANYONE when we where attacked on 9-11 so it is as clear an an unmuddied lake that your comment was clearly wrong as to be not worth comment.
Try again.
The wonder is whether any Dem would do more than prosecute (in a court of law) any act of terror. Let's not forget that one of the biggest errors in the US in response to terrorist acts was when Clinton turned to the court room to prosecute those involved in the first attack on the World Trade Center. That fiasco gave Bin Laden all the tools to succeed on his second attack. Thanks to the press boosting about the WTT redundant design that it would be impossible to bring down from the ground up and that it could withstand a plane flying into it.... well, let's just say the we were hoisted on our own petard.
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I said nearly 4000 Americans are dead because of the war with Iraq. There were no Iraqis involved in the 9-11 attack. If there had been no war in Iraq the nearly 4000 American troops who have dies in Iraq would not have died as a result of that war.
I said nothing about the 9-11 attacks, which killed about 3000, not about 4000. You clearly are not using your mind.
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You seem unable to follow the conversation.
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I started this particular one. You are the one who is not with it.
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I'm surprised and disappointed you're still here. But history repeats itself.
You're lying, obviously. You can go back and read what I wrote again. Maybe you're capable honesty. I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to give you another chance. Read what I wrote, and respond to it.
Thanks.