DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on December 25, 2009, 10:18:58 AM
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http://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/371674/32/ARTCL/none/none/1/The-future-of-precision-guided-munitions/ (http://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/371674/32/ARTCL/none/none/1/The-future-of-precision-guided-munitions/)
(http://images.pennnet.com/articles/mae/cap/cap_future%2009125%2001.jpg)
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Thanks Plane. Interesting stuff.
While the Iranians still try to build their first nuke....something we did more than
5 decades ago, the US races ahead of the IslamoNazis that will never be able to keep up.
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There has to be a formula that establishes a ratio for the dollar cost of digging under a thousand cubic feet of mountain versus the cost of busting through a thousand cu. ft. of mountain. The deeper you get, I think the bust-up cost is going to rise faster than the dig-in cost.
Add in a few hundred decoy excavations and the morons who think that the bombs will solve all their problems are going to go broke pretty fast. They're already well along the path.
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We always have plenty money for things that go bang. This is America, everyday is the 4th of July.
God Bless America
Land That I love
Stand Beside Her.....
BSB
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There has to be a formula that establishes a ratio for the dollar cost of digging under a thousand cubic feet of mountain versus the cost of busting through a thousand cu. ft. of mountain. The deeper you get, I think the bust-up cost is going to rise faster than the dig-in cost.
Add in a few hundred decoy excavations and the morons who think that the bombs will solve all their problems are going to go broke pretty fast. They're already well along the path.
How deeply can you bury the door?
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The issue IMHO isn't so much how deeply you can bury the door but how long you can make the vestibule and how many fake doors you can plant.
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bin Laden may have a location, or two, that he prefers, but in general I'd be very surprised if he wasn't moving around from location to location. That's the way the NLF leadership did it in Vietnam, and they were never found. We kept looking for a HQs but there wasn't one.
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>>bin Laden may have a location, or two, that he prefers, but in general I'd be very surprised if he wasn't moving around from location to location. That's the way the NLF leadership did it in Vietnam, and they were never found. We kept looking for a HQs but there wasn't one. <<
And did the Johnson and Nixon drop everything in order to find the NLF leadership?
Or where they to stupid also?
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Well, you see Rich we never located the them. On the other hand we did locate bin Laden. A little reading never hurts.
BSB
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Ah, we located him, but gave him a pass.
I wonder why we would do that? What purpose would it serve?
There must be an answer. Conspiracies always do.
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No conspiracy, just stupidity.
As I said, try using your eyes. Read the Special Operations report. Read the book by one of the Delta operatives that was charged with finding bin Laden. Read, read, don't just run your mouth off.
Further, it was all out in the open at the time. I saw video of the Special Forces using 50s to fire across valleys, up mountainsides to Al Qaeda locations, etc. Everyone with a brain was wondering why we didn't have US infantry up there. Then a spokesman for Rumsfeld/the Pentagon said they wanted the Afghans to capture bin Laden.
It's funny, the Bush apologists are only interested in protecting his legacy. Why aren't they interested in finding out what happened?
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Stupidity.
I see. It's that simple.
::)
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Good pun.
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I'm not going to quarrel with what happened.
I just don't take the idea that bush is "stupid" seriously. I don't believe that kind of argument is based in a serious examination of the facts. It's simple, obtuse.
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That's exactly what it's based on. A serious examination of the facts.
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I doubt it.
Calling someone stupid usually indicated a prejudice. I know you have one, therefore I am confident I can question your ability to accurately assess the facts.
Of course your opinion is your opinion. However, an opinion doesn't always equal a fact.
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No conspiracy, just stupidity.
As I said, try using your eyes. Read the Special Operations report. Read the book by one of the Delta operatives that was charged with finding bin Laden. Read, read, don't just run your mouth off.
Further, it was all out in the open at the time. I saw video of the Special Forces using 50s to fire across valleys, up mountainsides to Al Qaeda locations, etc. Everyone with a brain was wondering why we didn't have US infantry up there. Then a spokesman for Rumsfeld/the Pentagon said they wanted the Afghans to capture bin Laden.
It's funny, the Bush apologists are only interested in protecting his legacy. Why aren't they interested in finding out what happened?
I think it was less stupidty in general than political Bravo Sierra in particular. The elder Bush did a good job of creating a coalition and working around the sensitivities of all the parties involved. He was a former diplomat. He was a former CIA director. He understood the real world. His son did not have that experience or expertise. But Dubya wanted to try to touch all the bases and he ended up doing some really lousy baserunning. First he tried to appease the UN and that backfired. Then he confused job 2 (Iraqi regime change) with job 1 (Punish the Taliban and Al Quaeda). Had he found, eliminated or better yet brought to Gitmo bin Laden and the Taliban leadership it would have shown the world that the US WILL get you. Then he could have bypassed the UN, gone into Iraq on the strength of the already-violated UN resolutions (which he ultimately did anyway) and toppled the Iraqis. Libya already deposited a load in their panties and decided to be good children (having been slammed once before by Reagan). Syria was scurrying to the sidelines and only Iran was (and still is) posing a threat after the Iraqi invasion started.
Had we sequenced these operations properly, we would have a much stronger position today. But Dubya was trying to somehow work the sort of diplomatic magic his Dad did and somehow still ignore world opinion. It didn't help that our own Democratic party was trying it's best to telegraph every move and propagandize each operation. Bush tried to play all the parties and ended up neither pleasing anyone nor actually solidifying anything.
If Afghanistan were already secure and Iraq were properly manned, Iran never would have taken that oil well - which is both an opportunistic (and no-doubt Russian inspired) move and a way of challenging the region to grow some balls and fight back at the American "invasion." Everything bin Laden and the Iranian regime has said is coming true in spades. If I were Muslim I might well be tempted to look at bin Laden and the Taliban as inspired. After all, they keep fighting, they properly predict the course of events and they declared Allah would protect them from capture no matter what the Americans did. Bush told us this would be a long war with big losses and setbacks, but that we would ultimately win. Bin Laden told his people the same thing. Bin Laden's public trusted him, and very few of the dissenters in Islam were vocal enough to matter. Bush's own countrymen, in the form of Democrats, undermined him and encouraged the people not to trust him. He did plenty to help that effort along. So who looks like the better prophet right now? Objectively, even though he is losing militarily, bin Laden understands history and human nature far better than Bush ever did. He's winning by dismissing the short term loss and pain as the price of ultimate gain. It's such a good game plan that the Democrats are currently using the same arguments to justify their health care reform.
One day, somebody is going to right a book called "The Art of Jihad - the sayings of Osama bin Laden" and a lot of people are going to buy it.
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They had bin Laden at his old cave complex that he used when he was fighting the Russians. Not sending in more US troops so they could block his escape was just plain stupid. It may may been other things also, but mainly it was stupid.
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They had bin Laden at his old cave complex that he used when he was fighting the Russians. Not sending in more US troops so they could block his escape was just plain stupid. It may may been other things also, but mainly it was stupid.
Well, that's hard to argue with . . .
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George Bush senior hoped to depose Saddam Hussein by allowing the Iranians who hated him to revolt and push him out with a local people revolution , George Bush Junior had a simular ambition that also failed because the target was well prepared to deal with local opponents.