DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Kramer on March 14, 2010, 11:48:36 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100315/ap_on_bi_ge/us_runaway_prius;_ylt=AkbgFcR6o03xJ.6w798y9Dqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNnZjFtMmtuBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzE1L3VzX3J1bmF3YXlfcHJpdXMEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMzBHBvcwM5BHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNsYXd5ZXJyZWJ1dHM- (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100315/ap_on_bi_ge/us_runaway_prius;_ylt=AkbgFcR6o03xJ.6w798y9Dqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNnZjFtMmtuBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzE1L3VzX3J1bmF3YXlfcHJpdXMEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMzBHBvcwM5BHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNsYXd5ZXJyZWJ1dHM-)
SAN DIEGO – The mystery surrounding a Toyota Prius whose driver reported a stuck accelerator deepened Sunday as the motorist's attorney dismissed a congressional memo that questions his client's version of events.
The memo said technicians with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Toyota could not duplicate the sudden, unintended acceleration that James Sikes said he experienced March 8 when he reached 94 mph on a California freeway. Investigators tried during a two-hour test drive Thursday.
The memo was based on a congressional staffer's observations of a two-day inspection last week at a dealership in suburban San Diego. A Toyota official who was at the inspection explained that an electric motor would "completely seize" if a system to shut off the gas when the brake is pressed fails, and there was no evidence to support that happened, according to the memo.
"In this case, knowing that we are able to push the car around the shop, it does not appear to be feasibly possible, both electronically and mechanically that his gas pedal was stuck to the floor and he was slamming on the brake at the same time," according to the report for the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
Kurt Bardella, a spokesman for the committee's top Republican, Darrell Issa of California, said Sunday that the findings "certainly raise new questions surrounding the veracity of the sequence of events" reported by Sikes.
"We're not saying Mr. Sikes is wrong or that he lied, we're saying that questions have arisen in the investigation," Bardella said.
John Gomez, Sikes' attorney, said the findings fail to undermine his client's story.
"I don't put a whole lot of stock in their explanation," he said. "It's not surprising they couldn't replicate it. They have never been able to replicate an incident of sudden acceleration. Mr. Sikes never had a problem in the three years he owned this vehicle."
Brian Pennings, a spokesman for the California Highway Patrol, said his agency's view that there is no evidence of a hoax is unchanged. The CHP does not plan to investigate the incident because there were no injuries or property damage.
"Unless they can completely disprove Mr. Sikes, we're done," Pennings said. "It doesn't sound like they can do that."
Messages left with three Toyota spokesmen at the automaker's U.S headquarters in Torrance were not returned Sunday. However, the company said in a release it will hold a news conference Monday in San Diego to discuss its preliminary findings.
Transportation Department officials did not immediately comment Sunday.
NHTSA is looking into claims from more than 60 Toyota owners that their vehicles continue to accelerate unexpectedly despite having their vehicles repaired.
Toyota has recalled millions of cars because of floor mats that can snag gas pedals or accelerators that can sometimes stick. Sikes' car was covered by the floor mat recall but not the one for sticky accelerators. He later told reporters that he tried to pull on the gas pedal during his harrowing ride, but it didn't "move at all."
The Prius is powered by two electric motor-generators and a small gasoline engine, all connected by transmission gears. A computer, which Toyota calls the "hybrid control computer" determines what combination of motors is needed and which would be most efficient.
Craig Hoff, a professor of mechanical engineering at Kettering University in Flint, Mich., said that for the Prius to accelerate out of control, at least two systems would have to fail simultaneously. They are the sensor signal that tracks the brake and gas pedal positions when the driver presses on them and the hybrid control computers.
"The chance of them both going wrong, plus the fact that the signal is bad, it just seems very, very, very remote," Hoff said. "Could it happen? Statistically, yes. But it just doesn't seem very likely."
Several events usually combine to cause problems with cars, and it's difficult to reproduce them, Hoff said.
"It's going to make it really hard to find, because you've got to line up the multiple effects," he said.
The incident involving the Prius came at the worst possible time for Toyota and happened only a few hours after the company held a high-profile news conference at its Torrance headquarters rejecting assertions of sudden unintended acceleration by an Illinois engineer.
Sikes, 61, could not be reached to comment but his wife said he stands by his story.
"Everyone can just leave us alone," Patty Sikes said Saturday night. "Jim didn't get hurt. There's no intent at all to sue Toyota. If any good can come out of this, maybe they can find out what happened so other people don't get killed."
Mrs. Sikes said the couple's lives have been turned upside down and they've received death threats.
Sikes is not seeking fame or fortune, said Gomez. The driver, who spoke with reporters at least twice after the incident, will not sue Toyota and has declined many requests to appear on national television, he said.
The congressional memo, first obtained by The Associated Press, describes a series of tests conducted by Toyota and the NHTSA on Wednesday and Thursday. A full diagnostics was conducted, followed by an inspection of the brakes and a test drive. Investigators also compared the Sikes vehicle to a 2008 Prius provided by a Toyota dealership.
NHTSA told congressional staff that the results "were the same on both vehicles and within the manufactures specifications," according to the memo.
Following the tests, NHTSA paid Sikes $2,500 for the gas pedal, throttle body and the two computers from his vehicle, the memo said.
The memo said both the front and rear brakes were worn and damaged by heat, consistent with Sikes saying that he stood on the brake pedal with both feet and was unable to stop the car. But if the fail-safe system worked properly, the brakes wouldn't have been damaged because power would have been cut to the wheels.
The Wall Street Journal reported Saturday that the wear was not consistent with the brakes being applied at full force for a long period, citing three people familiar with the probe, whom it did not name. The newspaper said the brakes may have been applied intermittently.
Gomez said the best evidence that his client was frantically slamming the brakes is that the CHP officer smelled burning brakes and saw the lights on.
Gomez also represents the family of CHP Officer Mark Saylor, which sued Toyota this month in San Diego Superior Court.
Saylor was killed in August along with his wife, her brother and the couple's daughter after their Lexus accelerator became trapped by a wrong-size floor mat on a freeway in La Mesa, near San Diego. Their loaner car hit a sport utility vehicle and burst into flames.
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i didn't trust this guy the first time i saw him interviewed
if he is lying they need to jail him like the lying S.O.B. with the kid in the flying saucer
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Yeah, he he did it just to piss you and Kramer off. He made it all up just to see what you would do.
He's not going to jail, don't be silly.
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Yeah, he he did it just to piss you and Kramer off. He made it all up just to see what you would do.
He's not going to jail, don't be silly.
We don't know each other so your brilliant assumption is moronic, but maybe, just maybe he saw an opportunity to shake down Toyota. Probably figured this would be only a local incident and a fast settlement -- but he did not consider this would turn into national news. Now he has to stick to his made up story so he doesn't go to prison and look like a jerk to his family & friends.
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Plus Kramer I have a suspicion that there is an element in all this Toyota drama of the media sensationalizing every Toyota incident because the Left wants to help their buddies/unions with the failing American companies. What better way to help the unions sell their inferior products than by sensationalizing and micro-ing every Toyota incident.
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Plus Kramer I have a suspicion that there is an element in all this Toyota drama of the media sensationalizing every Toyota incident because the Left wants to help their buddies/unions with the failing American companies. What better way to help the unions sell their inferior products than by sensationalizing and micro-ing every Toyota incident.
yup Toyota is the new villain of the day. This is the problem with the US Government having a vested interest in a major car company like GM. Looks like Obama is pissing off another friend in Japan. But since Obama and the Dem Party are Socialists/communists maybe their idea of friends is different than ours. Maybe Cuba is considered a better friend than Japan. Maybe Hamas is a better friend than Israel.
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<<Plus Kramer I have a suspicion that there is an element in all this Toyota drama of the media sensationalizing every Toyota incident because the Left wants to help their buddies/unions with the failing American companies. What better way to help the unions sell their inferior products than by sensationalizing and micro-ing every Toyota incident.>>
This is scary. I find myself agreeing with you and Kramer. I felt from the start that this Toyota stuff was getting way more publicity than similar incidents with other brands have merited over the decades, and when I watched the video of this guy being "talked down" by highway cops, the first thing that came into my mind was "shakedown." It was just too neat and too neatly resolved.
As far as I am concerned, there may be some core safety concerns with Toyota, even serious ones, but the story is being massaged out of all proportion by the media and Congress AND so far I haven't seen a shred of evidence of significant design or manufacturing defects. Which I definitely would have expected to have seen by now. It's pretty obvious to me that the U.S. auto industry and associated unions' PR machines are working overtime on this. This campaign has "RESCUE" written all over it.
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so far I haven't seen a shred of evidence of significant design or manufacturing defects. Which I definitely would have expected to have seen by now.
You haven't been looking. There is a software problem that Toyota continues to deny (because if it is software, then it's likely they will have to recall virtually every car of theirs on the road).
(Apple Computers Co-founder Steve) Wozniak was speaking at Discovery Forum 2010 when he went off topic for a few minutes and spoke about problems with his 2010 Toyota Prius.
"I don't get upset and teed off at things in life, except computers that don't work right," was his segue into the Toyota comments. Then he said he had been trying to get through to Toyota and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) for three months but could not get anyone to explore an alleged software-related acceleration problem--as described below.
"Toyota has this accelerator problem we've all heard about," Wozniak said. "Well, I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn't get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild, but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again--safely."
"This is software. It's not a bad accelerator pedal. It's very scary, but luckily for me, I can hit the brakes," he said.
Toyota said it investigates all complaints. "We're in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problems and finding remedies," said John Hanson, national manager environmental safety and quality communications at Toyota. "After many years of exhaustive testing, we have not found any evidence of an electronic [software] problem that would have led to unwanted acceleration."
Original Article (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10445564-64.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0)
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<<Plus Kramer I have a suspicion that there is an element in all this Toyota drama of the media sensationalizing every Toyota incident because the Left wants to help their buddies/unions with the failing American companies. What better way to help the unions sell their inferior products than by sensationalizing and micro-ing every Toyota incident.>>
This is scary. I find myself agreeing with you and Kramer. I felt from the start that this Toyota stuff was getting way more publicity than similar incidents with other brands have merited over the decades, and when I watched the video of this guy being "talked down" by highway cops, the first thing that came into my mind was "shakedown." It was just too neat and too neatly resolved.
As far as I am concerned, there may be some core safety concerns with Toyota, even serious ones, but the story is being massaged out of all proportion by the media and Congress AND so far I haven't seen a shred of evidence of significant design or manufacturing defects. Which I definitely would have expected to have seen by now. It's pretty obvious to me that the U.S. auto industry and associated unions' PR machines are working overtime on this. This campaign has "RESCUE" written all over it.
i like it when we agree
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<<i like it when we agree>>
Yeah then we can all join hands and sing Kumbaya
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If there's a bug in the program, then surely Wozniak or his peeps could have found it by now, especially if the "problem" occurs under specific conditions that he claims he's been able to reproduce.
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If there's a bug in the program, then surely Wozniak or his peeps could have found it by now, especially if the "problem" occurs under specific conditions that he claims he's been able to reproduce.
And how do you propose that they do this when they don't have access to the code? Code which Toyota keeps even more secret than other car manufacturers?
Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts.
The AP investigation found that Toyota has been inconsistent ? and sometimes even contradictory ? in revealing exactly what the devices record and don't record, including critical data about whether the brake or accelerator pedals were depressed at the time of a crash.
By contrast, most other automakers routinely allow much more open access to information from their event data recorders, commonly known as EDRs.
AP also found that Toyota:
? Has frequently refused to provide key information sought by crash victims and survivors.
? Uses proprietary software in its EDRs. Until this week, there was only a single laptop in the U.S. containing the software needed to read the data following a crash.
? In some lawsuits, when pressed to provide recorder information Toyota either settled or provided printouts with the key columns blank.
Original Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_hi_te/us_toyota_black_boxes)
Alarmingly, the government cannot even evaluate the problem:
Sometimes you see something you just can't believe. And yet, there it is in cold type (or warm electrons).
Today's candidate is a single sentence by Washington Post writers Peter Whoriskey and Frank Ahrens, discussing the Congressional investigation of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's response to multiple reports of Toyota safety problems.
It says: NHTSA officials told investigators that the agency doesn't employ any electrical engineers or software engineers.
To say our jaw dropped would be woefully inadequate.
A modern luxury car has something close to 100 million lines of software code in it, running on 70 to 100 microprocessors. The navigation system of the Mercedes-Benz S-Class alone exceeds 20 million lines of code.
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And the software that controls the "drive-by-wire" accelerators of Toyota and Lexus vehicles is one potential culprit in the tangled collection of issues, allegations, and recalls of many of those vehicles for so-called "sudden acceleration" problems.
The NHTSA's mission is to "save lives, prevent injuries, reduce vehicle-related crashes."
If it cannot properly analyze those systems, or even understand at a deep-code level how they work, then the agency is useless at overseeing the entire "Safety" part of its mandate.
The agency has an annual budget of more than $800 million, and it employs 635 thousands of people. That not a single one of them is an EE or software engineer borders on the criminally insane.
Original Article (http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1042836_nhtsa-has-no-software-engineers-or-ees-to-analyze-toyotas)
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Toyota has already admitted that their cars have a problem. They have recalled a whole bunch of cars to fix it. They simply do not understand THIS problem.
A sane person would not buy a GM car because of this, he would buy a used car that never had this sort of problem, perhaps a Toyota, perhaps something else. The entire idea that this is a conspiracy to wreck Toyota is silly. No one is sending anyone to jail for reporting a problem with his car that was witnessed by the police. Perhaps they will deduce the problem, perhaps they won't.
As I said, the best thing to do about this is to wait for the bottom of the market, then buy Totota stock. Toyota makes good cars and will not be going out of business over this. But they are not angels and they are not perfect.
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Toyota has already admitted that their cars have a problem. They have recalled a whole bunch of cars to fix it.
They continue to deny that there is a software component to the problem.
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<<The entire idea that this is a conspiracy to wreck Toyota is silly. No one is sending anyone to jail for reporting a problem with his car that was witnessed by the police. Perhaps they will deduce the problem, perhaps they won't.>>
What did the police witness except that the car was traveling at various speeds at various times? The "problem" that they witnessed could either have been a vehicle or a driver problem.
There's no question in my mind but that both the auto industry and the auto workers unions employ publicists, lobbyists and PR guys of very impressive skills and they certainly aren't beyond milking any reported problem to the limit. It would be child's play for them to get key legislators and media on board - - that's exactly what they're paid to do.
The coded software that Ami refers to is another problem - - he certainly makes a great case for expanded Fed regulatory powers and staff, and more muscular review and regulation. If Toyota were hiding its code while its competitors were releasing theirs, it might be kind of suspicious, but as it is, it looks to me like Toyota is no more or no less zealous in keeping its trade secrets than anyone else in the industry - - which is not necessarily proof of guilty secrets.
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It could well be a software problem. And if it is, they won't admit anything until they are sure of what it is. But this is not a conspiracy of Detroit automakers to wreck Toyota. It could be a conspiracy by Toyota to cover up a problem.
We all know that a car computer is unlikely to cost as much as a laptop to produce, but to replace one costs several times that amount.
I do not understand why anyone would pay $3000 for a built-in navigation device for their car when you can buy a decent one you just plug into the cigarette lighter for under $100 that will do nearly everything the factory unit can do and can be replaced with a new more powerful one for the same money every two years or so. We know that if the one built into the car fails, it will cost several hundred to dig into the dashboard, and thousands more to repair it.
I really doubt that the guy that reported the runaway Toyota will not be charged with anything. I can't imagine what his motive would be, anyway. I have not heard that he is even suing anyone.
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I can't imagine what his motive would be, anyway. I have not heard that he is even suing anyone.
He tells USA TODAY that, while he hopes to get a replacement car out of this ordeal, he isn't planning to sue Toyota or otherwise profit. "You had to be there. People can second-guess all they want, but you can't live a life until you've lived it."
Bankruptcy court records show that in 2008, Toyota was listed as a $19,000 creditor, the value of the leased Prius, which has to be returned.
His total debt was $700,000, and he has had a Mercedes, a boat and a motor home repossessed. The bank also took back a 2007 Dodge Ram, leaving him and his wife with just the Prius.
While Sikes is current on his lease payments, he has to give the car back in a few months, which would leave him carless.
Original Article (http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-03-12-prius12_ST_N.htm)
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Toyota has already admitted that their cars have a problem. They have recalled a whole bunch of cars to fix it. They simply do not understand THIS problem.
A sane person would not buy a GM car because of this, he would buy a used car that never had this sort of problem, perhaps a Toyota, perhaps something else. The entire idea that this is a conspiracy to wreck Toyota is silly. No one is sending anyone to jail for reporting a problem with his car that was witnessed by the police. Perhaps they will deduce the problem, perhaps they won't.
As I said, the best thing to do about this is to wait for the bottom of the market, then buy Totota stock. Toyota makes good cars and will not be going out of business over this. But they are not angels and they are not perfect.
clearly you are clueless as to what Toyota is saying because what I heard them say was didn't match what you said.
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It could well be a software problem. And if it is, they won't admit anything until they are sure of what it is. But this is not a conspiracy of Detroit automakers to wreck Toyota. It could be a conspiracy by Toyota to cover up a problem.
We all know that a car computer is unlikely to cost as much as a laptop to produce, but to replace one costs several times that amount.
I do not understand why anyone would pay $3000 for a built-in navigation device for their car when you can buy a decent one you just plug into the cigarette lighter for under $100 that will do nearly everything the factory unit can do and can be replaced with a new more powerful one for the same money every two years or so. We know that if the one built into the car fails, it will cost several hundred to dig into the dashboard, and thousands more to repair it.
I really doubt that the guy that reported the runaway Toyota will not be charged with anything. I can't imagine what his motive would be, anyway. I have not heard that he is even suing anyone.
XO Wonders: "I do not understand why anyone would pay $3000 for a built-in navigation device for their car when you can buy a decent one you just plug into the cigarette lighter for under $100 that will do nearly everything the factory unit can do and can be replaced with a new more powerful one for the same money every two years or so".
because when I bought mine in 2005 it included the stability control feature so you had to buy the package that had the navigation too. In 2005 a navigation system cost several hundred dollars. Plus you can't steel a built-in unit but the portable units were/are in demand to steel. And frankly I wouldn't want to have to fix the damage caused by someone breaking into my car, which would run upwards of $1,000 to fix. I hope that takes the mystery out of it for you. If I'm not mistaken the navigation system also had the hands free blue-tooth for the cell phone feature included.
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Wait until it breaks, that's all I have to say.
That is how car companies sucker people into buying this sort of thing: they bundle something you want with something you think you need. And after the warranty runs out, they have you by the balls: buy a new one, or pay several thousand to fix the old one. And I am pretty sure you'll fall for that as well.
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Wait until it breaks, that's all I have to say.
That is how car companies sucker people into buying this sort of thing: they bundle something you want with something you think you need. And after the warranty runs out, they have you by the balls: buy a new one, or pay several thousand to fix the old one. And I am pretty sure you'll fall for that as well.
Like I said it came with the Stability Control. I really wanted the stability control. I like the navigation it has baled me out more than once. I'm not a cheap bastard like you and don't mind spending the extra money when I really want something. I work for my money, the government doesn't give it to me, so I'll buy what I want , when I want, and where I want, and how often I want. When the HC passes and they force me to pay for your health care, and and force me to take the government run HC then they will tell me when, where, how much and pretty much control me. They will say don't eat this, don't drink that and stop doing this. Your Liberal pals are CONTROL FREAKS. They are losers so they got elected because the only things they are good at is lying, stealing and cheating. They have never done a days work honestly. They despise business and people with values. They will have to pry my navigation system from my cold dead hands before they will take it away from me.
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YOu should be bronzed for that one. What a clown.
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it's funny how some people are so narcissistic
because they dont like OEM NAV....well then everyone that does must be a dumbass
my way or the highway
hey....if everyone was exactly the same it would be a pretty boring ass world
i have OEM NAV...dont use it....not really that crazy about it....
but to each his/her own....everybody has different preferences/needs
whatever floats your boat
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"If I'm not mistaken the navigation system also had the
hands free blue-tooth for the cell phone feature included"
mine does
but the control freaks also kind of ruined that feature too
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it's funny how some people are so narcissistic
because they dont like OEM NAV....well then everyone that does must be a dumbass
my way or the highway
hey....if everyone was exactly the same it would be a pretty boring ass world
i have OEM NAV...dont use it....not really that crazy about it....
but to each his/her own....everybody has different preferences/needs
whatever floats your boat
When I get my Verizon Droid maybe I'll use it more than the OEM. Frankly I don't use navigation all that much anyway.
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I like the OEM Nav screen for it's display features for my IPOD
Nice big fonts for displaying song titles, song folders, song selection, volume, ect...
Also it shows my AC/Heating settings in nice large fonts, as well as radio stations, radio settings
Plus it is imo a much cleaner look
Oh and the backup camera screen is nice on the OEM NAV screen....I really like that.
(http://photos2.ebizautos.com/used-2006-lexus-gx_470-basetrim-3620-4823327-9-640.jpg)
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XO is a suction cup kinda fellow.
(http://base0.googlehosted.com/base_media?q=http://digitalcontent.cnetchannel.com/06/6b/066b6df3-ebf9-4131-b39a-692e80217ef8.jpg&size=20&dhm=4c35681c&hl=en)
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Of course, XO forgets about those places that have restrictions on using add on devices in the car, just because Florida does not.
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Of course, XO forgets about those places that have restrictions on using add on devices in the car, just because Florida does not.
my bet is the know-it-all isn't aware of those places you speak of -- XO talks out of his ass frequently. That's why he wipes his tongue so often.
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If there's a bug in the program, then surely Wozniak or his peeps could have found it by now, especially if the "problem" occurs under specific conditions that he claims he's been able to reproduce.
The technical service bulletin went to every U.S. Toyota dealership in late August 2002 after some customers reported their vehicles were speeding up unexpectedly.
"Some 2002 model year Camry vehicles may exhibit a surging during light throttle input at speeds between 38-42 mph," the bulletin states. "The Engine Control Module (ECM) calibration has been revised to correct this condition."
Toyota, the world's largest automaker, has blamed acceleration surges on floor mats it says can trap accelerator pedals and recalled more than 2.3 million vehicles in January for sticky accelerator pedals. It has said that independent testing failed to find problems with its electronic throttle controls.
But Clarence Ditlow, the head of the nonprofit Center for Auto Safety, said the 2002 document doesn't talk about mechanical issues.
"If you look at this document, it says electronics," Ditlow said. "It says the fix is reprogrammed in the computer. It doesn't say anything about floor mats."
The internal Toyota document was given to CNN by a group of attorneys now seeking a nationwide class-action lawsuit against the company. Ditlow said the document -- not previously made public -- indicates Toyota knew much earlier about an electronic connection to sudden acceleration problems. He also said the bulletin was apparently ignored or hidden from the public not only by Toyota, but also by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
More at Original Article (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/22/toyota.throttle.warning/index.html?hpt=T2).
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What states ban add-on GPS units?
And why would they even do that?
The fact is that if a built-in GPS breaks down, it is going to cost bigtime to fix it, and you will probably only be able to get it fixed at the dealer.
It will be obsolete within five years.
If you buy an add-on device, you can simply REPLACE it with a more modern unit for a fraction of the price of fixing the built-in unit.
Not long ago, GM discontinued their old OnStar and replaced it with a newer version., Those who paid extra for this were screwed.
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What states ban add-on GPS units?
And why would they even do that?
In Minnesota you are not allowed to use suction mounts anywhere in your vehicle. I guess you can have a GPS, but it has to be sitting on the seat next to you or something.
Why? Driver distraction. There are plenty of states that ban use of non-manufacturer-equipped devices.
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If there's a bug in the program, then surely Wozniak or his peeps could have found it by now, especially if the "problem" occurs under specific conditions that he claims he's been able to reproduce.
Cosmic rays could be at least partially to blame for Toyota's mechanical defects, scientists now say. And the problem could get worse in the future, as the increasing use of tiny computer chips ? replacing mechanical parts ? makes cars more and more vulnerable to space radiation.
More sensitive electronics
Federal regulators were prompted to look into the possible role that cosmic rays played in Toyota's product recall fiasco after an anonymous tipster suggested the design of Toyota's microprocessors, software and memory chips could make them more vulnerable to interference from radiation compared with other automakers. This is because Toyota has led the auto industry in its widespread inclusion of electronic controls in the manufacture of their various car models.
As electronic devices are made to perform more and more functions on smaller circuit chips, the systems become more sensitive and vulnerable to corruption, and thus more prone to interference from radiation, said Ewart Blackmore, a senior researcher at TRIUMF, a cyclotron facility in Vancouver, Canada, that works with companies to test and analyze the effects of radiation on products.
"Radiation is certainly a potential cause of Toyota's problems," Blackmore told LiveScience. "What's not known is what direction Toyota and other automakers are taking in terms of finding and correcting these issues."
...
High-energy particles and electronics
Electronic chips record, store and process information in the form of "bits." High-energy particles that pass through these chips can alter or "flip" a bit, resulting in a Single Event Upset (SEU).
This event can be anything from data loss or altered programming, to much more serious corruptions of circuitry functions.
The risks are especially high for circuits that are "field programmable," explained Lloyd W. Massengill, director of engineering at the Vanderbilt Institute for Space and Defense Electronics at Vanderbilt University. Field-programmable circuits are systems in which the circuit's function can be electrically altered while it is still in use.
"These circuit families store not just data, but their basic function electrically," Massengill said. "In the unfortunate event of a particle flipping just the right bit, a circuit configured to carry out a benign action may be reprogrammed to carry out some unintended action."
Toyota Recall Might Be Caused by Cosmic Rays (http://www.livescience.com/technology/toyota-recall-cosmic-rays-100326.html)
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If there's a bug in the program, then surely Wozniak or his peeps could have found it by now, especially if the "problem" occurs under specific conditions that he claims he's been able to reproduce.
Radiation from space affects airplanes and spacecraft and triggers errors in computer systems, but has received scant attention in the auto industry.
The questions show how deep regulators and automakers may have to dig to solve the mysteries of sudden acceleration. Toyota says it is fixing mechanical problems ? floor mats and sticky pedals ? that explain sudden acceleration in 13 models and 5.6 million vehicles.
But at least half of more than 1,500 recent complaints to regulators involve other models, raising questions about whether Toyota has fixed its problem.
An anonymous tipster whose complaint prompted regulators to look at the issue said the design of Toyota's microprocessors, memory chips and software could make them more vulnerable than those of other automakers.
"I think it could be a real issue with Toyota," said Sung Chung, who runs a California testing firm.
Toyota, which has led the auto industry in using electronic controls, said its engine controls are "robust against this type of interference."
Electronics makers have known for decades about "single-event upsets," computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the atmosphere.
With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single-event upsets deserve a close look.
The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there's no way to physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented by a combination of software and hardware design. Testing for the problem would involve putting vehicles in front of a particle accelerator and showering them with radiation.
It was first noted in the 1950s that the phenomenon could affect electronics at high altitudes; unlike electromagnetic waves, there are no ways to physically shield circuits from such particles. Airplane and spacecraft makers design their electronics with such radiation in mind through safeguards such as systems that triple-check data.
Are cosmic rays really causing Toyota's woes? (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/classifieds/news/automotive/latestnews/stories/DN-detroit_21bus.ART.State.Edition1.3db2cdb.html)
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In Minnesota you are not allowed to use suction mounts anywhere in your vehicle. I guess you can have a GPS, but it has to be sitting on the seat next to you or something.
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You just sit it or stick it one the dash.
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You just sit it or stick it one the dash.
Only old cars have flat dashboards. Most modern cars have sloped, plastic dashboards, so stuff won't sit on them. And if you "stick" it to the dash, it will be pointed up towards the roof - not very useful.
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All you have to do is google "GPS dashboard mounts" and you will find something that will work with every vehicle.