DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Michael Tee on March 24, 2010, 04:39:35 AM

Title: Who speaks for the American people?
Post by: Michael Tee on March 24, 2010, 04:39:35 AM

Watching four talking heads discuss the new health-care reform legislation on Larry King Live tonight, I was disturbed by one GOP suit who kept returning to the theme that the Democrats had "forced this on the American people," that "the American people" "didn't want" the bill, etc. 

This was something I'd heard other Republican spokespersons saying in the past few days, and I found it vaguely disturbing then too.  Who the fuck elected THEM to represent "the American people" and what (if anything) was the real result of the 2008 elections if not to determine the will of the American people in the most direct possible way?

Well, thankfully, it turns out that I am not the only one who is disturbed by those lying, mendacious Republicans and their God-damn effrontery in assuming that THEY, whose asses were unceremoniously turfed out by the REAL American people in 2008, were somehow the sole legitmate voice of that people.  Here's an article on that very phenomenon by James Zogby, from Hufpo - - it's succinct, and it's good; he articulates exactly WHY I feel so uneasy hearing these clowns promote in lockstep their incredible lying bullshit that THEY and not the elected government are the real voice of the people:

http://tinyurl.com/ycfuv9p (http://tinyurl.com/ycfuv9p)

James Zogby
Founder and president of the Arab American Institute
 
Frightening GOP Behavior

Before dashing off to celebrate a hard fought victory in achieving health care reform, it is important to reflect on a deeply disturbing aspect of the debate that I believe spells danger ahead.
A Republican talking point repeated ad nauseam during yesterday's debate pounded on the theme that they, and they alone, had the right to speak for "the will of the American people." This took different forms: "the American people have spoken," or "you (Democrats) are ignoring/imposing your views on the American people" or "the American people have sent a message," etc. All making the same point -- that the GOP speaks for the American people.

Of course, the American people have spoken, and in November 2008 elected a Democratic White House and Senate and House of Representatives. But, elections and the workings of our democracy including the idea that the losing party respect the outcome of elections appear to be alien concepts to today's GOP.
The idea that the minority party represents the "will of the people" (not some of the people, but "the people") is the seedling of a totalitarian mindset. In this mindset -- democracy doesn't matter, ideas are not to be discussed, and opposing views are not to respected. What matters is that they alone have truth, they alone are metaphysically connected to the "mind of the people" can interpret their will, and because they have truth and speak for the people, others represent a threat and must be silenced and stopped.
This was a major concern last summer as violent demonstrators disrupted "town meetings" -- with angry chanting mobs claiming to represent the "will of the people" arrayed against the elected Congresspeople and their constituents who had freely assembled to discuss issues. The mobs didn't come to discuss or even debate. They were mobilized to disrupt discussion and silence debate.
Listening to the rhetorical excesses of last summer's demonstrators, or those who mobilized to chant slurs at Democrats over the weekend, or to the radio and TV personalities who incite with hate and fear ("that we are losing our country"), or the GOP Congressional leadership who charge much the same and incite in similar ways -- I hear echoes of last century's history. The behavior fits a frightening pattern and ought to be of concern.

Title: Re: Who speaks for the American people?
Post by: sirs on March 24, 2010, 05:03:02 AM

Quote from: Michael Tee on March 24, 2010, 04:39:35 AM

Watching four talking heads discuss the new health-care reform legislation on Larry King Live tonight, I was disturbed by one GOP suit who kept returning to the theme that the Democrats had "forced this on the American people," that "the American people" "didn't want" the bill, etc.   

Ummm....let's recap
- use of reconciliation
- 100% pure democrat pushed legislation. 
- BIPARTISAN opposition
- final bill only debated on for less than 36hours, vs the pledged 5+days
- We won't even start on the multiple back room deals for a whole host of fence sitters, including the last topple in Airport deals for Stupak
- nearly 3/4 of the country polling "NO" to the bill

Yea, that's pretty much right on the mark.  Come Nov, the American people will speak for the American people.  And we better not see any whining from the likes of you, as the "duly elected respresentatives" begin the process of dismantling this legislative garbage, referred to as Obamacare

Title: Re: Who speaks for the American people?
Post by: Universe Prince on March 24, 2010, 08:41:11 AM

Conservative and liberal talking heads, Republican and Democratic politicians all routinely talk about what the American people want. President Obama does this sort of thing all the time. But I think this is my favorite bit, "In this mindset -- democracy doesn't matter, ideas are not to be discussed, and opposing views are not to respected." Ha ha ha. As if the Democrats don't use that mindset all time. But the next best part is the next sentence, "What matters is that they alone have truth, they alone are metaphysically connected to the 'mind of the people' can interpret their will, and because they have truth and speak for the people, others represent a threat and must be silenced and stopped." What makes that so choice is the fellow, Michael Tee, posting it here as a complaint about Republicans has no problem with "liquidating" the "enemies of the people" or with leaders like Stalin and Castro. The blatant hypocrisy Michael displays is amusing in its ludicrousness.

Title: Re: Who speaks for the American people?
Post by: Universe Prince on March 24, 2010, 08:55:42 AM

http://tinyurl.com/ycq73em (http://tinyurl.com/ycq73em)
"'The American people want to see Washington put aside partisan differences and make progress on jobs, and today the Senate took one important step forward in doing that,' President Obama said in a statement after the early-evening vote."

Title: Re: Who speaks for the American people?
Post by: Universe Prince on March 24, 2010, 09:04:49 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/25/full-text-barack-obama-congress-address (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/25/full-text-barack-obama-congress-address)

I know that we haven't agreed on every issue thus far, and there are surely times in the future when we will part ways. But I also know that every American who is sitting here tonight loves this country and wants it to succeed. That must be the starting point for every debate we have in the coming months, and where we return after those debates are done. That is the foundation on which the American people expect us to build common ground.

Title: Re: Who speaks for the American people?
Post by: Universe Prince on March 24, 2010, 09:07:29 AM

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-health-care-reform-strongsville-ohio (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-health-care-reform-strongsville-ohio)
"The American people want to know if it’s still possible for Washington to look out for these interests, for their future."

Title: Re: Who speaks for the American people?
Post by: Universe Prince on March 24, 2010, 09:14:23 AM

http://tinyurl.com/yz6fj5r (http://tinyurl.com/yz6fj5r)
"But I think it's really clear in one point that the American people understand very clearly, they understand that there should be an end to discrimination on the basis of preexisting conditions." - Nancy Pelosi

Title: Re: Who speaks for the American people?
Post by: Universe Prince on March 24, 2010, 09:20:22 AM

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gG5gJ2 (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gG5gJ2)

Change is realizing that meeting today’s threats requires not just our firepower, but the power of our diplomacy – tough, direct diplomacy where the President of the United States isn’t afraid to let any petty dictator know where America stands and what we stand for.  We must once again have the courage and conviction to lead the free world. That is the legacy of Roosevelt, and Truman, and Kennedy.  That’s what the American people want.  That’s what change is.

Title: Re: Who speaks for the American people?
Post by: Universe Prince on March 24, 2010, 09:26:49 AM

I'm not saying the Republicans have not used the phrase "what the American people want" a lot lately. They have. But politicians and talking heads use the conceit of taking on behalf of the American people all the time. I'm pretty sure when the Democrats were in the minority, they said things like  "the American people want" and  "the American people don't want" all the time.