DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Michael Tee on May 02, 2010, 01:30:24 PM
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Is this for real? Anybody ever hear of a car bomb that leaves a tell-tale plume of smoke before it goes off? Fortunately, as in the case of the Detroit airport "bomber," the whole thing was foiled by "alert bystanders" without a scratch on anyone. I'm as sensitive as the next guy to threats on Times Square - - anyone visiting NYC who wants to buy cheap theatre tickets has to stand in line there, a sitting duck for any "terrorist" bomb, but really - - a car bomb that warns before detonating?
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I agree: I would say that this bomb was not the work of anyone who understands bombs.
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Obviously Tea Party related to embarrass Obama.
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They already said that the detonation wiring was "amateurish".
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Perhaps Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dorhn should teach seminars.
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<<Perhaps Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dorhn should teach seminars. >>
WHOAH, that was sneaky, BT. Considering that 4 members of the Weather Underground were lost in a single bomb-making "accident."
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Certainly Ayers and Dorhn had nothing to do with their deaths.
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I agree: I would say that this bomb was not the work of anyone who understands bombs.
Bombs in Times Square
I say you know nothing about bombs or bomb making unless you are farting up the joint, nothing about time except wasting it, and since you are the biggest square around I'd say that's what you know best, and of course you are a first class doofus.
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Perhaps Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dorhn should teach seminars.
Or perhaps the 16 FALN Terrorists Clinton Pardoned in 1999.
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The bomb was obviously the work of the Dept. of Homeland Security, which is the only credible explanation of (a) why it gave off a warning prior to detonation and (b) why nobody was injured by it.
Same as the Detroit incident. Another phony attack staged to scare the sheeple.
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The bomb was obviously the work of the Dept. of Homeland Security, which is the only credible explanation of (a) why it gave off a warning prior to detonation and (b) why nobody was injured by it.
Just because you refuse to believe it does not mean that a bomb with faulty detonation wiring cannot also be a credible explanation.
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<<Just because you refuse to believe it does not mean that a bomb with faulty detonation wiring cannot also be a credible explanation.>>
Right, I just believe another explanation is a lot more credible.
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<<Just because you refuse to believe it does not mean that a bomb with faulty detonation wiring cannot also be a credible explanation.>>
Right, I just believe another explanation is a lot more credible.
Here is another one , Al Queda is haveing a hard time keeping its skilled bomb builders alive also haveing a hard time infiltrateing the US.
Their inspirational effect appeals across the barrier ,but primarily to the very gullable few of whom are Eletricians or Chemists. ...
...or much elese...
Lets start a pool , I want to bet that the bomber is a second generation Packistani of poor education but middle class income.
Who wants to bet on a first generation or an Egyptian?
Of course speculation ran this way when the winer of the pool turned out to be LeVey an all American rube.
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This is like the Reichstag Fire all over again. Whoever the lying bastards decide to pin this on WILL be (IMHO) native-born to Pakistani immigrant parents. Why native-born? It will provide more phony reasons for the incipient police state to spy on American citizens, and further erode their Constitutional rights. It is absolutely amazing to me that the state can already execute an American citizen outside the U.S.A. simply by declaring "outside" to be a "battle zone," the citizen to be a "combatant" and from that point forward, if they can find him, that American citizen is TOAST: no charges, no trial, no conviction and no appeal. And the really amazing part of it (IMHO) is that there is absolutely no backlash from the public.
Mark my words, the U.S.A. is heading one small step at a time into a fascist dictatorship. All that they're waiting for is for further economic tsunamis to dispense with "quaint and old-fashioned" concepts such as the Bill of Rights, and meantime Obama, who surely knows better, doesn't have the balls to stand in the way of the parade. Just as the U.S. government has flouted international law with impunity, you can be sure that the next laws they will flout will be the U.S. Constitution itself, on which they have already conducted a brazen assault without any adverse consequences, and certainly with nothing to fear from the phony quadrennial Presidential "elections."
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Mark my words, the U.S.A. is heading one small step at a time into a fascist dictatorship.
The extreme RW has been saying that about Obama for a while now. Way to join the apparent "dark side". Good to know now that Obama has lost yet another vote come 2012
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I do not think Tee was planning to vote in a US election.
I have nothing to say about the bomb except that if it was supposed to blow up and kill people, it failed due to poor bomb design and/or fabrication. They claimed they used the wrong fertilizer. Bot of course, one can never rely on what police say publicly, as frequently they lie so as to dispense with those sick individuals who admit to crimes they did not commit. A valid technique in solving the crime, but nonetheless it makes anything the police say questionable.
If it was supposed to do what it did, then the motive was something else. Who was responsible is just a guess. Was it the man with the red shirt? Who knows?
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Something else I can't understand is why any self-respecting "terrorist" organization would want to take credit for such a half-assed attempt. Had it been an al Qaeda operative, they would have disowned him and canceled his martyr's insurance.
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Whoever the lying bastards decide to pin this on WILL be (IMHO) native-born to Pakistani immigrant parents.
Oh no!
That is my pick in the pool and I don't have to share.
Why don't you try for a Sudani or a Nigerian or even a Philipino?
I have dibs on the Packistanis.
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Something else I can't understand is why any self-respecting "terrorist" organization would want to take credit for such a half-assed attempt. Had it been an al Qaeda operative, they would have disowned him and canceled his martyr's insurance.
Best they have?
" canceled his martyr's insurance"
Hahahahahahhahahahahahaha!
Very good.
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The bomb was obviously the work of the Dept. of Homeland Security, which is the only credible explanation
Same as the Detroit incident. Another phony attack staged to scare the sheeple.
So Michael let me get this straight....you are actually stating you think the
Obama Dept of Homeland Security is staging terror attacks in the United States?
And specifically the Obama Dept of Homeland Security staged both the
Detroit plane incident and the NY Times Square bomb incident?
(http://standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/napolitano-obama.jpg)
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<<So Michael let me get this straight....you are actually stating you think the
Obama Dept of Homeland Security is staging terror attacks in the United States?
And specifically the Obama Dept of Homeland Security staged both the
Detroit plane incident and the NY Times Square incident?>>
I think you should take Obama's name off the Dept. of Homeland Security. On paper, Obama might be their boss, but he's got about as much to say about what they do as he does about when the troops come home from Afghanistan or Iraq.
It's pretty apparent to me that the "elections" are one giant fraud on the American people, and that the real hard decisions of the national security state are made by special interests whose policies are continued without significant change no matter who is "elected" to be "President" or hold any other public office. When a change in direction is made, it will come from these special interests without regard to who happens to be "President" at the time. He or she will be informed of the change when the time comes. His "advisers" will start singing a different tune, or the editorial pages of the leading newspapers and certain key talking heads will indicate what the new direction is going to be, and for a smart "President," that's all the direction he or she will ever need.
For the record, I think it's probably a no-brainer that the incident on the Amsterdam to Detroit plane was a set-up, with the bomber, whose passport had already been either flagged or invalidated, was put on the plane with CIA or other security agency assistance after the gate-keeper had turned him back. Only the chance interception of key conversations by a quick-witted lawyer-passenger blew the story and now it's been totally buried by the MSM. Either Uncle Sam staged the whole thing, or more likely, took over the running of a blown "terrorist" scheme, allowing only a half-assed attempt to proceed for the purpose of maintaining the level of hysteria generated by the Sept. 11 attacks.
As for the Times Square "bombing," it's an either-or deal - - either the U.S. security agencies staged the same thing or this was one incredibly inept lone-wolf operative inspired by rage at the actions of the U.S. and/or Israel but without the training or even common sense necessary to pull off the attack. Hell, it could even be psycho teenagers like the Columbine "Trenchcoat Mafia" just doing it for their own twisted reasons with no ideological agenda. Again, if done with US government involvement, the purpose would be to generate or maintain the level of public hysteria that is needed to cement the powers of the military-industrial complex and/or to pave the way for its next step forward in the erosion of basic Constitutional liberties. The usual Reichstag fire motif.
On a personal note, I usually visit Times Square with my wife every time we're in New York. This would be at least three or four times a year. It's pretty tacky but it's where you have to go and stand in line if you want discount tickets for the Broadway shows. (if available) So I certainly don't take any bomb attack on Times Square lightly. However, I can see quite clearly the advantages to the real rulers of America in fanning the public's fear of "terrorists," in order to facilitate further inroads against Constitutional rights, very much as Hitler did with the Reichstag fire. Obama or any other "President" wouldn't have to know anything about it, and if he did, he'd probably keep his mouth shut if he knew what was good for him. It strikes me as really strange how easily both the airline attack and the Times Square bomb attack were frustrated by a combination of ineptitude, "alert bystanders," and so on. Almost too good to be true.
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I think you should take Obama's name off the Dept. of Homeland Security. On paper, Obama might be their boss, but he's got about as much to say about what they do as he does about when the troops come home from Afghanistan or Iraq.
So Obama is a poor manager and thus a department under his direct control is staging terror attacks in the United States?
Also so you are now arguing Obama in not really the Commander-in-Chief and thus can't really be blamed for
troops staying in Iraq/Afghanistan, and Obama cant be blamed for on-going and increasing US Drone attacks
but on the other hand Bush was in full control and can be blamed for everything during his watch?
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<<So Obama is a poor manager and thus a department under his direct control is staging terror attacks in the United States?>>
Well, they are FAKE terror attacks in which nobody ever gets hurt.
<<Also so you are now arguing Obama in not really the Commander-in-Chief and thus can't really be blamed for
troops staying in Iraq/Afghanistan, and Obama cant be blamed for on-going and increasing US Drone attacks
but on the other hand Bush was in full control and can be blamed for everything during his watch?>>
They're both just figureheads. Bush had no more control than Obama has, he's just a lot more enthusiastic in promoting all that shit. Obama was more disappointing. He sure as hell fooled me. He talked like a guy who could make a difference and I believed him. That is how fucking dumb I was. But of course he can't. He's really not much better than Bush. But I still believe that Obama knows it's all wrong, and that Bush really believed in it. So if there's anything Obama can do to slow it down, he'd do it. But maybe that's a mistake too. I'll put it this way. I know who's in control, and it's not the "President." Never was. But I don't know how much power remains in the hands of the President to influence the course of events . THAT would be very hard for a guy like me to evaluate, since I just don't have sufficient knowledge of the details.
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One statement that I have found accurate has been this one:
"Never assume conspiracy when incompetence will suffice."
I heard this was attributed to Napoleon. I am not sure of that, but I am sure it is very often true, and seems to be true in this case..
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<<Also so you are now arguing Obama in not really the Commander-in-Chief and thus can't really be blamed for
troops staying in Iraq/Afghanistan, and Obama cant be blamed for on-going and increasing US Drone attacks
but on the other hand Bush was in full control and can be blamed for everything during his watch?>>
I'll put it this way. I know who's in control, and it's not the "President." Never was.
So all the talk about Bush needing to be found guilty in a World court, and hung was just........blather?
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_times_square_car_bomb (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_times_square_car_bomb)
NEW YORK ? A Pakistani man believed to be the driver of an SUV used as a car bomb in a failed terror attack on Times Square was taken into custody early Tuesday by federal and local police officials while trying to leave the country, a law enforcement official said.
The suspect, Faisal Shahzad, was identified by customs agents at John F. Kennedy International Airport and was stopped before boarding an Emirates airlines flight to Dubai, according to officials who spoke to The Associated Press early Tuesday on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the investigation. He had recently returned from a five-month trip to Pakistan, where he had a wife.
He was being held in New York and couldn't be contacted. He has a Shelton, Conn., address; a phone number listed there wasn't in service.
Law enforcement officials say Shahzad bought the SUV, a 1993 Nissan Pathfinder, from a Connecticut man about three weeks ago and paid cash. The officials spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the case.
Police said the bomb could have produced "a significant fireball" and sprayed shrapnel with enough force to kill pedestrians and knock out windows. The SUV was parked on a street lined with restaurants and Broadway theaters, including one showing "The Lion King," and full of people out on a Saturday night.
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<<"Never assume conspiracy when incompetence will suffice.">>
How does "incompetence" suffice to explain the continuation of all Bush's policies and the immunity of Bush ("impeachment is off the table") and his torturers ("prosecution of past crimes of torture is "looking backward" and this administration wants to look forward") by the "hope and change" candidate?
Or apply the same reasoning in Viet Nam where the war policy went forward until for economic reasons it had to be abandoned, despite the change from Democratic to Republican "Presidencies."
XO, take a look at Michael J. Parenti's Democracy for the Few, which explains exactly what the role of "elections" is in America's phony "democracy." The edition I was reading (3rd) was written before the abomination of the Bush years but hopefully there is a more up to date edition. This guy nailed the whole system even before Bush - - Bush was just the least skillful of the various figurehead "Presidents" who have been permitted to run the charade over the past few decades.
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<<NEW YORK ? A Pakistani man believed to be the driver of an SUV used as a car bomb in a failed terror attack on Times Square was taken into custody early Tuesday . . .>>
Well, well. HERE is a case where one might well ask, "Why assume conspiracy where incompetence will suffice?" Either the guy is an incompetent lone wolf, an incompetent operative of some Pakistani jihadi group or . . .
Or once again, the CIA produces its Oswald.
One of the problems with the legitimization of torture is that the results of the trial are no longer conclusive. The guy could be guilty, he could have been railroaded, nobody ever knows. Kinda like the Moscow show trials that everyone here seems so self-righteous about.
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An American from Pakistan arrested over Time Square bomb plot
DEBKAfile Special Report
May 4, 2010, 12:44 AM (GMT+02:00)
Faisal Shahzad, 30, a US citizen from Pakistan, was arrested at New York's JFK airport Monday night trying to board a flight to Dubai and will appear before a federal court Tuesday, May 4. He was identified as the buyer of the Nissan Pathfinder used to rig the failed car bomb. US Attorney General Eric Holder said that more than one person is sought in connection with the attempted terrorist plot.
Shahzad's information is vital for uncovering the extent of the conspiracy and its potential for more terrorist attacks in New York or other American cities.
US security officials began screening passengers boarding domestic and foreign flights out of Boston, New York and Philadelphia Monday night, May 3, hoping to snare a likely foreign terrorist or terrorists on the run after planting the Times Square car bomb. By then, US officials had come around to accepting that the failed car bomb attack was coordinated by more than one person - possibly even a foreign terrorist organization - and no longer cast doubt on the credibility of the Pakistani Taliban's claim of responsibility.
The investigation got off to a slow start due to the initial skepticism in the administration and New York City Hall to the possibility of a high-profile terrorist operation which called for immediate, comprehensive action.
Shortly after the car bomb parked near on Times Square was defused safely Saturday night, May 1, debkafile reported: Our terror experts doubt that he was a loner. Surveillance was needed to locate the bomb vehicle and possibly steal or buy it from the used car junkyard, several hands must have assembled the materials and prepared the explosive device, and his lightning disappearance indicates that a getaway car must have been on hand to whisk him away from the scene before the police arrived.
NY Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the bomb made up of propane tanks, fertilizer and gasoline, which failed to detonate in the SUV, could have produced " significant fireball" in the heart of Midtown Manhattan Saturday night May 1 had it worked properly. It was detected when smoke billowed out of the parked vehicle near Time Square.
The next day, we headlined the Pakistani Taliban's claim of responsibility, taped in advance by its top bomb-maker, Qari Hussain Mehsud, and strengthened a few hours later by the release of a videotape allegedly made by Pakistani Taliban leader Hakimullah Mehsud on April 4, weeks after he was reported killed by a US missile strike in January, and ignored at the time.
On that nine-minute tape, he vowed retaliation for the killing of Islamist leaders: "The time is very near when our fedayeen will attack the American states in the major cities."
Shortly before he was killed by a US drone in Aug. 2009, his predecessor, Baitullah Mehsud, claimed his movement was now able to execute operations inside the United States.
US security officials did not take this claim seriously. However the evidence against Najibullah Zazi, the Detroit taxi driver charged in February with conspiring to attack the New York subway, reveals that al Qaeda in Pakistan recruited him when he arrived their to join Taliban. The two movements' campaign of violence against the United States and US targets in Pakistan is so closely coordinated as to be virtually interchangeable.
Therefore, when Qari Hussein claimed Taliban was avenging "martyred leaders," he included Abu Omar al Baghdadi, the al Qaeda commander in Iraq killed by a joint US-Iraqi intelligence team in mid-April.
He also warned NATO governments to denounce the US and apologize for "the massacres in Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, and Pakistani tribal areas - otherwise be prepared for the worst destruction and devastation in their own countries."
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Or once again, the CIA produces its Oswald.
So Michael....President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, and many other Democrats in the administration
and Congress are in on this?....or at least they are aware of this just like Michael Tee?..and they all go along with
it? No one blows the cover or leaks what would be an earth shattering story? All these Democrats know
the Obama Central Intelligence Agency headed by life-long Democrat Leon Panetta is staging terror attacks
and arresting what they know are stooges for the staged attacks? Come on Michael you been drinking?
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<<President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holer, and many other Democrats in the administration
and Congress are in on this?....or at least they are aware of this just like Michael Tee?..and they all go along with
it? >>
They know what they want to know, CU4. Like the torture at Abu Ghraib. These guys are experts at insulating themselves from the facts on the ground. Do you know that Hitler never once visited a real extermination camp? Never once saw the gas chambers in action? What the hell did he need to do that for? And what would Obama need detailed accounts of every Homeland Security/CIA etc. operation for?
<<No one blows the cover or leaks what would be an earth shattering story? All these Democrats know
the Obama Central Intelligence Agency headed by life-long Democrat Leon Panetta is staging terror attacks
and arresting what they know are stooges for the staged attacks? >>
Why would Panetta have to know? Guys like Panetta come and go, the agencies are run by lifers. Lifers who don't blab to the press and don't blab to Panetta either. Panetta's smart enough to know that there are some things he's better off NOT knowing, some people he'd better not piss off. They don't change the real guys in charge every time there's an "election." The work goes on.
<<Come on Michael you been drinking?>>
I mentioned a possibility, CU4. And I still think it's possible. The arrest of some unfortunate stooge to blame the whole thing on is not a total impossibility and neither is it totally impossible that somebody really did try to set off a real bomb. I'm just struck by the number of "attacks" that go wrong for seemingly trivial or fortuitous reasons - - the shoe bomber, the Amsterdam-Detroit flight bomb, now this car bomb - - always the smoke, never the fire. I am saying that I am suspicious. Period.
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This guy was simply not all that competent. Why would he not leave the country within 24 hours of the attack? I guess I am glad they caught him, but as a plotter goes, this guy seems to be a total dolt.
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You know the old saying - "They don't catch the smart crooks." Or the smart terrorists.
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http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2010/05/03/cbs-features-ny-mayor-bloomberg-speculating-bomber-was-mad-about-obamac (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2010/05/03/cbs-features-ny-mayor-bloomberg-speculating-bomber-was-mad-about-obamac)
With Katie Couric drawing him out, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg agreed the Times Square car bombing was likely “homegrown” as he proceeded, in an interview excerpt run on Monday's CBS Evening News, to speculate it could have been placed by “somebody with a political agenda who doesn't like the health care bill or something. It could be anything.”
Could be “anything,” but the first thing Bloomberg thinks of are those who don't like ObamaCare, presumably conservatives or Tea Party activists.
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2010/05/03/cbs-features-ny-mayor-bloomberg-speculating-bomber-was-mad-about-obamac#ixzz0mycqu6Eh (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2010/05/03/cbs-features-ny-mayor-bloomberg-speculating-bomber-was-mad-about-obamac#ixzz0mycqu6Eh)
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In Hermionee's best accent...."What an idiot"
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CIA has run amok in Pakistan as well. The Pakistani police are following the CIA's orders and rounding up the various stooges that are to make up the fake "terrorist cell" for the guy in New York.
Isn't that right, Mikey?
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The Elvis factor, perhaps? ;)
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<<CIA has run amok in Pakistan as well. The Pakistani police are following the CIA's orders and rounding up the various stooges that are to make up the fake "terrorist cell" for the guy in New York.>>
And we all know that the Pakistani police have the exact same reputation as the Mounties -- - they always get their man. Well, let's be fair about this: they sometimes get their man. Or sometimes somebody else's man. Or sometimes nobody's man. Or sometimes some unfortunate schnook who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and couldn't scrape up the bribe money to free himself in time. Bottom line is that nobody knows if the Pakistani police got the right guys or not and nobody seems to care either.
<<Isn't that right, Mikey?>>
If you say so, Ami.
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I'm just :o Tee didn't pull a Bloomberg, and immediately claim the Tea Party folk were behind it
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I'm just :o Tee didn't pull a Bloomberg, and immediately claim the Tea Party folk were behind it
I now know why he did it--
turns out he was stressed over his house being repossessed.
So considering this guy isn't a natural born citizen shouldn't we think really hard about this Immigration Bill?
Oh and speaking of illegals committing a HIGH % of US crime, did anyone consider the 9/11 immigration gang and their contribution to crime?
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<<Oh and speaking of illegals committing a HIGH % of US crime. . . >>
Yes, what stats would bear that out? Since the U.S. had a very high crime rate anyway, and since most illegals are here for the money, I'd think they'd want to keep a very LOW profile to avoid deportation, and thus avoid crime.
Well who knows? Any stats out there about the crime rate (apart from the crime of just BEING here) of illegals?
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How about this stat......Ilegal immigrats are 100% in committing crime, being that they have already committed the crime of illegally entering our country. Kinda dovetails with that shocking revelation (http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=9532.0) started in an earlier thread
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<<Oh and speaking of illegals committing a HIGH % of US crime. . . >>
Yes, what stats would bear that out? Since the U.S. had a very high crime rate anyway, and since most illegals are here for the money, I'd think they'd want to keep a very LOW profile to avoid deportation, and thus avoid crime.
Well who knows? Any stats out there about the crime rate (apart from the crime of just BEING here) of illegals?
Is that one of those hey look over there tactics? You know, so we are distracted by the real discussion, the real fat elephant in the room.
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<<Is that one of those hey look over there tactics?>>
No, it's one of those "Put up or shut up" tactics. If you claim the illegals bring a high crime rate with them, I'd suggest (a) America already has one of the highest crime rates in the developed world, so I can't see the illegals making a helluva lot of difference; they are entering a highly criminalized society; and (b) if they really do commit crimes at a higher rate than U.S. citizens in general, you'd think those stats would be all over the place.
Personally, I think the net effect on America's crime rate - - if you measured America's crime rate today, then removed all illegals, then waited for the removed illegals to be replaced by natural increase in the legal American population and measured the crime rate then, you'd have a higher crime rate among an all-legal American population than you do now in a mixed legal-illegal population.
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At least folks have come to the realization that these folks we're referring to are not "undocumented workers", but actually and literally ILLEGAL immigrants, in this country. I'm pleased to see that the PC label has largely been put to bed
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all legal population
north dakota?
I hear nothing about crime but It`s definately not a happy place to live, majority who lives there are temporary. the housing problem is insane.
if you own your trailer and want good paying job-N. Dakota is the place to go .
it`s one of the few states with low unemployment.
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My wife and I are tempted, as her parents live in Bismarck, and CA is looking financially worse and worse by the day, made even more so with the job strangling regulations & taxes being imposed, each and every year, by this far left legislature. One of the worst business climates in the nation now. And they think "green jobs" are going to pull them out. Gads, this state is being led by morons
Perhaps AZ is the place to move. 8)
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after all this talk about arizona.
generally how is the economy there?
p.s. totally agree about worst business climate.
p.p.s. I live in fear I need to renew something that can`t be done online.
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Good question about the economy...I'll need to do some googling. But if my wife and I were to relocate and take yet another pair of pockets out of CA, ND, TX, SC, and now AZ would be on our must research list
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generally how is the economy there?
I know about a dozen couples that have moved there in the last few years, seems to be good.
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The main problems with living in North Dakota are:
(1) it is very, very cold in the winter,
(2) many of the cities tend to be flooded regularly along the Red River of the North,
(3) it is flat and windy in the East, though the scenery improved in the ND Badlands.
(4) it is empty,
(5) it is more difficult to pretend one is a cowboy than in Wyoming, where everyone has a cowboy on their license plate.
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1) true
2) only if you choose to reside along the shoreline to said rivers
3) LOVE the wind, and LOVE the Badlands
4) LOVE the emptiness
5) is not a prerequisate
What do they say about "4 out of 5 dentists say..."?