DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on May 16, 2010, 12:25:19 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_overhaul_abortion (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_overhaul_abortion)
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The state should have no right to force any woman to pay for an ultrasound of a fetus, and I hope Crist vetoes this stupid law. All they are trying to do is to prevent a woman who wants an abortion from having one. The ultrasound serves no other purpose, as it raises the cost and delays a time-dependent process.
The FL legislature is full of rightwing ratbag jerks.
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I wish that we had a means to make all murderers face the humanity of their victim prior to the murderous act.
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quite clever
if you think about it in another way . everyone should study the tactics of the pro-life movement it started very chaotic and now they can work the law in such a away even if they screw up they are not harmed.
I remember a few years ago they protested this doctors house and cause much problems, but it turned out they got the wrong adddress. but they did the protest within the law so thery didn`t even have to say sorry to the people in that house.
people seriously need to read sun tzu
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quite clever
if you think about it in another way . everyone should study the tactics of the pro-life movement it started very chaotic and now they can work the law in such a away even if they screw up they are not harmed.
Even tho many of us disbeleive evolution.
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An abortion is not a murder, not by law, not anywhere in this country.
The same chuckleheads that say that forcing someone to buy health insurance by law is unconstitutional now claim that the state has a right to require a procedure that will cure no one of anything is necessary.
Abortion is not murder. It is no one's business but that of a woman and her doctor.
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/Politics/8892dc5b.jpg)
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An abortion is not a murder, not by law, not anywhere in this country.
The same chuckleheads that say that forcing someone to buy health insurance by law is unconstitutional now claim that the state has a right to require a procedure that will cure no one of anything is necessary.
Abortion is not murder. It is no one's business but that of a woman and her doctor.
It was a long time ago , but not far away, that killing a black person was a property crime.
Being leagal makes anything right.
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1 out of 4?
not sure it was ever that high
regular death is quite frequent and around the clock,abortion is not 24/7
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Anti-choice people tend to spread a bunch of lies. Most people in this country and the world do not consider abortion to be murder. If men could get pregnant, it would not only be legal, it would be a sacrament.
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not sure it was ever that high
regular death is quite frequent and around the clock,abortion is not 24/7
Number of abortions per year: ~1,200,000
Number of deaths per year: ~2,400,000
So, it's actually more like 1 in 3.
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Anti-choice people tend to spread a bunch of lies. Most people in this country and the world do not consider abortion to be murder. If men could get pregnant, it would not only be legal, it would be a sacrament.
If men could get pregnant we would be women.
And killing one would still be a murder even if done very young.
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Very young is not the same thing as unborn.
My point is that women understand why women would want the freedom to choose. Men do not face the problems caused by unintended pregnancy, If they did, they would have a different understanding of it.
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quite surprising
but on the subject of regular deaths, I had no idea poor diet would be a cause of death
not sure how objective these statistic are now
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Very young is not the same thing as unborn.
My point is that women understand why women would want the freedom to choose. Men do not face the problems caused by unintended pregnancy, If they did, they would have a different understanding of it.
Very young is not the same thing as unborn.
Why not?
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My point is that women understand why women would want the freedom to choose.
A recent Gallup poll showed that 49% of women self-identify as "pro-life" as opposed to 44% who self-identify as "pro-choice".
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some women are pro-choice because of guilt
they had an abortion when they were "young & dumb"
we all...or most of us...made mistakes when we were young
i dont really fault them...they didnt know what else to do
but after maturing, with better understanding and wisdom
they may realize their position has since changed
but then they have to deal with....
"OMG WHAT HAVE I DONE?"
"I killed my own child?"
instead of dealing with their guilt head-on
they get angry...really at themselves...when they know what they did
but they project that anger at the pro-life movement to shield
themselves from their own gigantic failure, guilt, and short-sightedness
as long as society says abortion is "ok" or "legal" then that can help shield
them from dealing with their own inner guilt.....
they rationalize..."well I guess I'm ok if society says so"
but many of them lay awake at night....in pain...thinking about that baby.
it's a tragedy of unspeakable proportions and I feel for both parties involved.
it's not the way it is supposed to be.....this is the way it is supposed to be
(http://www.thechefalliance.com/userfiles/image/Family/new%20mom%20with%20baby.jpg)
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Very young is not the same thing as unborn.
Why not?
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An unborn fetus is invisible. A born child is visible.
I thought everyone knew this.
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An unborn fetus is invisible. A born child is visible.
I thought everyone knew this.
So, as soon as you leave the room, the born child is no longer visible, and therefore is no longer alive?
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An unborn fetus is invisible.
looks pretty visible to me!
(http://anordinarymom.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/fetus.gif)
(http://politicalvindication.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/fetus.gif)
(http://file.oltiv.org/uploaded_images/baby-hand-730179.jpg)
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Still waiting for Xo to rationally and maturely explain how someone can be arrested, tried, and convicted for a double homicide, upon a pregnant woman, where the child in question is apparently "invisible"
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hmm
if you look at it objectively, due to economic conditions the demand for abortions likely will go up.
pro-lifers are gonna have to answer how to deal with extra -cost of having a child.
unless the low moral is also damping peoples sex drives also.
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pro-lifers are gonna have to answer how to deal with extra -cost of having a child.
Why?
Getting pregnant is not like contracting cancer.
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it`s thier job get prevent everybody from having pre-marital sex or at the very least stop all forms of abortions.
so dealing with a cost of having a child will be one of issues for the pro-ilfe organization.
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Still waiting for Xo to rationally and maturely explain how someone can be arrested, tried, and convicted for a double homicide, upon a pregnant woman, where the child in question is apparently "invisible"
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That would be because an assortment of morons in some state legislature passed a stupid-assed law that this could be done, and some other imbeciles in some court affirmed it.
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EVERY state legislature is an "assortment of morons" & EVERY court that has tried such a case has a Judge that's an "imbecile? No majority of non-imbeciles present anywhere in any state legislature, including the most liberal of the liberal, like that in CA or Mass, to repeal such a moronic law, right?
That's your "rational" answer??
::)
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it`s thier job get prevent everybody from having pre-marital sex or at the very least stop all forms of abortions.
No it's not. Their position is that abortion should not be considered a form of birth control.
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with some exception pro-life organization is anti-birthcontrol .
I said no pre-marital sex for a reason
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with some exception pro-life organization is anti-birthcontrol .
I said no pre-marital sex for a reason
I would bet that the majority of the pro-life crowd is ambivalent about birth control.
Sure the churches and leaders preach abstinence but the rank and file is usually ok with Birth control, condoms and other methods of not getting pregnant.
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As a staunch anti-abortionist.....precisely
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with some exception pro-life organization is anti-birthcontrol .
I said no pre-marital sex for a reason
I think you have mistaken a minority for the majority.
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more visible minority,
I`ve been to afew prolife rallies and the wording touches abit more than the subject of abortion.
consistantly
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more visible minority,
I`ve been to afew prolife rallies and the wording touches abit more than the subject of abortion.
consistantly
That is opposite my experience.
Since I can't actually take a scientific survey , I will speak for myself.
I do not think that taking effective birth controll measures for many years by many persons represents nearly as much evil as a single abortion.
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I meant the pro-life org does not solely push for abolishment of abortion.
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At the core of the anti-choice movement are the die-hard Catholics and others that believe that the Wages of Sin are bastard children. Unwanted pregnancy is God's punishment for irresponsible women fooling around. These are traditionalists, as hidebound and reactionary as the Taliban or the Wahabbi Muslims. Then there are a number of people who are less rigid, and some who are for allowing some, but not all abortions.
As for the possible calculation of evil, ie the evil of abortion vs. the evils of birth control, there would need to be a scientific Scale of Evil for that. I deem that this is impossible, since actual evil cannot be calculated, only the results of evil actions, which vary greatly.
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I meant the pro-life org does not solely push for abolishment of abortion.
You're going to have to provide some proof of this "more than the abolishment of abortion" claim, by the "Pro-life org", Kimba. It's been my consistent observation that it's strictly an abortion issue. There are fringes/extremes to every group, but as Plane as referenced, is a very small minority. If its some "vocal minority", sure you can provide some evidence of that. I'm guessing you'll fine very little, if any, which is why the use of pro-life/pro-choice is a PC derivative of what's always been about, by the vast majority....anti-abortion vs pro-abortion, since "pro-lifers" are for all choice EXCEPT abortion
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yeah proof is gonna be tough since I`m going my what i observed from what spoken in rallies and memories of what people say on tv years ago.
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All attempts to prove anything to sirs' satisfaction have been fruitless.
Save your pixels.
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Especially when proof is never presented, by the likes of Xo. We're obligated to simply take his word on everything. Case in point (http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=9663.msg101178#msg101178)
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At the core of the anti-choice movement are the die-hard Catholics and others that believe that the Wages of Sin are bastard children. Unwanted pregnancy is God's punishment for irresponsible women fooling around. These are traditionalists, as hidebound and reactionary as the Taliban or the Wahabbi Muslims. Then there are a number of people who are less rigid, and some who are for allowing some, but not all abortions.
As for the possible calculation of evil, ie the evil of abortion vs. the evils of birth control, there would need to be a scientific Scale of Evil for that. I deem that this is impossible, since actual evil cannot be calculated, only the results of evil actions, which vary greatly.
I am right here.
You need not argue with any theroetical fundie , I am an actual Fundie.
I beleive that we also have Catholic members , so we don't have to guess wildly about that quarter either simply ask rather then setting up strawmen.
Wild guesses about the attitudes = not necessacery.
Truely Science does nothing to measure Evil , but this does not make it rediculous to say that some evil is greater than other evil. It may be subjective , yet still very clearly so.
Is cutting in line and making you wait longer for your turn an evil?
Sure it is .
Is slaying you as you stand in line so that you never get a turn at all a greater evil?