DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: sirs on May 20, 2010, 02:30:57 PM

Title: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on May 20, 2010, 02:30:57 PM
You know, it's a sad commentary, at this stage of our country's existance, that its controversial, or even necessary for a city to pass a resolution, making it clear it abides by the Rule of Law.  Who wants to move into a city/location where the rule is the city will decide what laws they will abide by, and which ones they won't.  What a great selling point...move here, we accept and support criminal conduct
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Council declares Costa Mesa a 'Rule of Law City'
BY CINDY CARCAMO and ELLYN PAK
5/19/10


COSTA MESA ? The City Council made it clear Tuesday night that people who are in the country illegally are not welcome in their city.

Council members voted to pass a resolution declaring Costa Mesa a "Rule of Law City" at the behest of Mayor Allan Mansoor, who has long been known as a vocal opponent of illegal immigration.

"I have a lot of concerns with cities calling themselves sanctuary cities," Mansoor said before the vote. "It's important we state that we do not support illegal immigration."

Mansoor's proposal was met with comments from five public speakers, all of whom criticized it. Some said the declaration would paint the city in a bad light and polarize the community. Others called the resolution a political move by Mansoor in his bid for the state Assembly.

The council voted 4-0 in favor of the declaration. Council member Katrina Foley was absent.

Councilwoman Wendy Leece said she supported the resolution, stating that the city's relationship with Immigration and Customs Enforcement in the city jail has helped reduce crime.

"This is just validating and reinstating the federal immigration law that we already follow," she said.

Before the vote, Counciman Eric Bever suggested expanding the declaration.

"I would suggest we are a rule of law city regarding all laws," Bever said.

Mansoor explained he wanted to make a specific point about illegal immigration.

Mansoor propelled himself and his city into the front lines of the immigration debate about five years ago with his  stance against illegal immigration.

He made national headlines when he aligned himself with the Minuteman Project, targeted day laborers and pushed for a program that trained officers to perform some duties of federal immigration agents.

Ultimately, an ICE agent was placed at the city jail to check the immigration status of inmates who are suspected of being in the country illegally.

Mansoor said that Arizona's new anti-illegal immigration law didn't play a part in his proposal and that action in his city is long overdue.

Mansoor and the city are known for leading the way in the county's fight against illegal immigration.

However, earlier this year, he came under fire by anti-illegal immigration activists after it was discovered that the city isn't using a 6-year-old federal program called E-Verify, which is intended to weed out employees who are working in the country illegally.

At the time, he said other issues had taken priority and that he hadn't gotten around to proposing E-Verify as mandatory for the city and its contractors.

About two months later, he announced a press conference where he said he sought more stringent policies, from requiring Costa Mesa businesses to verify a workers' immigration status to allowing police officers to check legal status and valid identification of unlicensed drivers, especially when ICE agents are not present at the jail.

"I want to bring something forward in the next couple of months to start looking at some new policies," Mansoor said. "I've done a lot of research on my own. And I'm going to bring it forward in a manner that's doable."


A step in the right direction (http://www.ocregister.com/news/city-249397-immigration-mansoor.html)
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: kimba1 on May 20, 2010, 02:49:32 PM
actually it`s kind of unfair. since it`s stating it`ll back stopping illegal immigration but no mention of other laws are to be enforced.

very few places can realisticly enforce all laws in a city.

so this means american made crimes like meth may get ignored.
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on May 20, 2010, 03:10:31 PM
I think the point is they'll be enforcing all laws on the books, and not choosing to not enforce those it doesn't agree with, Kimba
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 20, 2010, 03:32:21 PM

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/Politics/be9fa575.jpg)
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: kimba1 on May 20, 2010, 03:36:07 PM
but illegal immigration seems to be the focus topic on your post, but one mention of all laws .it would be more convincing if he were to put alittle more attention on the all laws factor. like non-immigrant crime will be prosecuted.I know he didn`t have to say it ,but it would cut down on the flak
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on May 20, 2010, 03:56:36 PM
but illegal immigration seems to be the focus topic on your post, but one mention of all laws .it would be more convincing if he were to put alittle more attention on the all laws factor. like non-immigrant crime will be prosecuted.I know he didn`t have to say it ,but it would cut down on the flak

Did you read the article?  Yes it is facilitated by the issue of illegal immigration, the point being...one more time...Costa Mesa passed a resolution making it official city policy they'll be enforcing all laws on the books.  No where in the resolution is there a provision that says its only going to be enforcing immigration law.  Kinda defeats the purpose of the point, that of other cities deciding what laws they will and will not enforce, doncha think?
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: kimba1 on May 20, 2010, 04:03:46 PM
i did and it mention illegal immigration and no other types of crimes .if he were to mention other stuff like drug possesion or theft . I won`t even bother here

Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on May 20, 2010, 04:10:10 PM
It's mentioned, but only as a topic of conversation, considering how major a topic it currently is, in this country.  The Resolution however makes it clear that its a pledge to enforce ALL laws, including immigration law, not just immigration law. 

You wanted him to provide a laundry list of every crime currently enforcible, in the City of Costa Mesa??  If he adds stuff like drug possession or theft, does that mean they won't enforce murder or rape?  If he mentions those, does that mean they won't enforce fraud or vandalism??

You see where I'm going with this?
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: kimba1 on May 20, 2010, 04:15:01 PM
well not a list but afew sample will go along way.

Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on May 20, 2010, 04:21:50 PM
Why list any, when the intent was clear?  If you're trying to argue that no other mention of anything else translates to no intention of enforcing anything else, try speeding thru the city of Costa Mesa, next time you're in town.  In fact, the local 7/11 should have some extra cash hanging around the register.  Don't forget to grab a few 6packs off the shelf, on you way out     ;)
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 20, 2010, 04:40:45 PM
i did and it mention illegal immigration and no other types of crimes .if he were to
mention other stuff like drug possesion or theft . I won`t even bother here

kimba what evidence do you have they are not enforcing other laws like theft?
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: kimba1 on May 20, 2010, 05:00:10 PM
the intent is clear they`re enforciing illegal immigratiopn law. the intent is not so clear they`re enforcing all laws. and i said no list just sample
in fact what you gave is a good example by saying don`t bother speeding .

I`m not saying thier not ignoring other laws but that it should warrant mention. but that`s just me.
I work in a place that millions will be lost if the wording is off.
it`s the very reason secretaries still have a job. grammer check is nowhere enough.
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 20, 2010, 05:31:49 PM
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/plwise/1a000aaa121.jpg)
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on May 20, 2010, 05:34:04 PM
the intent is clear they`re enforciing illegal immigratiopn law. the intent is not so clear they`re enforcing all laws.

Then I have no idea what resolution you're looking at.  The resolution I saw and heard, made it clear that Costa Mesa is officially a Rule of Law City, not a Rule of Immigration Law City


and i said no list just sample
in fact what you gave is a good example by saying don`t bother speeding .

But your implication is that without a listing of laws, even some "sample", then those not listed won't be enforced.  That just doesn't make any sense


(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/plwise/1a000aaa121.jpg)

If not Costa Mesa, then I'm thinking about relocating, already

Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: kimba1 on May 20, 2010, 06:07:27 PM
lets just say I`m not a fan of the expression  "it goes without saying"

maybe I should mention I live in san francisco and have a large mistrust of how people will interpret laws or enforce it.
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on May 20, 2010, 06:14:45 PM
Fair enough
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 20, 2010, 06:17:29 PM
If not Costa Mesa, then I'm thinking about relocating, already

SIRS...I dont blame ya a bit. Except be careful. I'm not sure this AZ law will stand. Really it can't or the pro-illegal-invasion house of cards will come crashing down. Thats why you see them furious with boycotts and screams of racism. They know whats gonna happen if they let this stand. They know other states are watching to see what happens. They know they will be exposed for the supporters of illegal activity they really are. So I suppose the Feds and Leftists are meeting behind closed doors on how best to continue the "take-over without firing a shot" of the United States. They will pretend they have finally come up with some new policy that will address the problem and say the AZ law is not needed. They will come up with some farcical  name like "2010 Border Security Enforcement and Immigration Reform Law" which will allow them to look like they are doing something but allow the flood of poor, uneducated, non-english speaking, social services burdens, future democrats to continue. They will do a few "busts" to make headlines, they will announce some big new funding and hiring of border agents....but they will do nothing that really halts or reduces illegal immigration down to a trickle....and we'll look up 10 years from now and see millions and millions more have come illegally....and be that much more in a hole we cant climb out of. I am very pessimistic....and it will one day cause another civil war in this country unless states are allowed to secede.

Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 20, 2010, 06:26:39 PM
now i am liking this look!

(http://www.irregulartimes.com/secedeamerica.jpg)
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on May 28, 2010, 02:07:17 AM
Some folks just don't get it (http://www.ocregister.com/news/mesa-250767-costa-fairgrounds.html)

Despite the vast majorities that support the AZ law, both in the state of AZ, and across the country, despite the country-wide majorites that support the enforcement of immigration law, & despite the overwhelming majorites that support legal immigration, some law makers just can't seem to get past their racial prejudice, and are intent on punishing cities and states for daring to support the Rule of Law

Can someone tell me when this country stop existing as the greatest nation in the world?  When we punish American kids, for wearing American shirts, in America?  When we punish or boycott municipalities for daring to support the Rule of Law, and end up economically hurting the most, the very people such "advocates" profess to support? 
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on June 04, 2010, 06:29:12 PM
And the momentum continues (http://www.ocregister.com/news/city-251914-immigration-orange.html)       8)
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: kimba1 on June 04, 2010, 07:29:20 PM
Can someone tell me when this country stop existing as the greatest nation in the world?  When we punish American kids, for wearing American shirts, in America? 

I`m behind you on that one. but as I said before those kids were up to no good anyway.
the better response would of been to ignored them.
Title: Re: Rule of Law City
Post by: sirs on June 04, 2010, 07:30:26 PM
I'm not going to agree with the "up to no good part", but I will with your other conclusion