DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: BT on December 24, 2010, 08:11:07 PM
-
For those members who were against it, please tell me in your own words your reasons for objection.
-
just to start:
A) against rewarding criminal behavior
B) wording of bill too broad, too vague....appears to allow folks well into their 30's, if not older vs the rhetorical inferrence that its targeted to teens and young adults who just happen to be here illegally
C) provides incentive for further criminal activity, perpetuating the ongoing problem of illegal immigration
Many more reasons, but that's for starters
-
just to start:
A) against rewarding criminal behavior
B) wording of bill too broad, too vague....appears to allow folks well into their 30's, if not older vs the rhetorical inferrence that its targeted to teens and young adults who just happen to be here illegally
C) provides incentive for further criminal activity, perpetuating the ongoing problem of illegal immigration
Many more reasons, but that's for starters
OK Fair enough.
How would you rewrite the bill to make it more palatable?
-
Alas...that's the problem here...I'm not looking or advocating a compromise on this issue. I don't see any (+) out of rewarding criminal conduct, thus my rewrite would be an all together scrapping of the bill
-
Alas...that's the problem here...I'm not looking or advocating a compromise on this issue. I don't see any (+) out of rewarding criminal conduct, thus my rewrite would be an all together scrapping of the bill
So blocking this segment of immigration reform is the highest priority in your opinion for the conservative agenda?
-
How would you rewrite the bill to make it more palatable?
I do not support the bill, but a bill of this importance should not be
attached to a defesne appropriations bill, it should be debated on its own.
-
So blocking this segment of immigration reform is the highest priority in your opinion for the conservative agenda?
BT....how and who is going to pay for these millions of college educations for illegal non-US Citizens?
Since money grows on trees & we already pay for these illegal non-American's primary education & healthcare...why not throw college in too?
Hey maybe next we can provide free internet, free cars, and maybe a McMansion too?
-
political pandering makes me sick.
-
How would you rewrite the bill to make it more palatable?
I do not support the bill, but a bill of this importance should not be
attached to a defesne appropriations bill, it should be debated on its own.
I agree the bill should not have been hidden in the defense appropriations bill.
-
All bills are merged in this way. It may not be fair, but it has been the way every Congress has acted since the beginning, and there is nothing that citizens are going to do to make them stop.
It would be an ideal issue for the teabaggers, but they are too dense to even recognize this. They think they can balance the budget by ending foreign aid to Guam.
-
So blocking this segment of immigration reform is the highest priority in your opinion for the conservative agenda?
BT....how and who is going to pay for these millions of college educations for illegal non-US Citizens?
Since money grows on trees & we already pay for these illegal non-American's primary education & healthcare...why not throw college in too?
Hey maybe next we can provide free internet, free cars, and maybe a McMansion too?
2010
The 111th Congress continued to consider the DREAM Act bill throughout 2010. S.3992, a new version of the DREAM Act, includes numerous changes to address concerns raised about the bill. Among other things, S. 3992:
1. Does not repeal the ban on in-state tuition for illegal immigrants. The DREAM Act does not force states to charge in-state tuition rates for illegal immigrants. The DREAM Act does not allow illegal immigrants to gain access to Federal Pell Grants and other financial aid.
1. Lowers the age cap for eligibility for the DREAM Act to 29 on the date of enactment. Additionally, in order to be eligible, individuals still must have come to the U.S. as a child (15 or under), graduated from a U.S. High School (or received a GED from a U.S. institution) and be a long-term resident (at least 5 years). An earlier version of the DREAM Act (S. 1545 in the 108th Congress), authored by Republican Senator Orrin Hatch and cosponsored by Senator John McCain, did not include any age cap. This bill was approved by the Republican-controlled Senate Judiciary Committee on a 16-3 vote.
2. Does not grant legal immigrant status to anyone for at least 2 years. Previous versions of the DREAM Act would have immediately granted legal immigrant status to individuals who met the bill?s requirements. Under S. 3992, an individual could obtain ?conditional nonimmigrant? status if he proves that he meets the age (currently 29 or under and arrived in the U.S. at 15 or under) and residency requirements (5 years or more) and:
1. Has graduated from an American high school or obtained a GED;
2. Has been a person of ?good moral character,? as determined by the Department of Homeland Security, from the date the individual initially entered the U.S. (previous versions of the DREAM Act only required an individual to be a person of good moral character from the date of the bill?s enactment);
3. Submits biometric information;
4. Undergoes security and law-enforcement background checks;
5. Undergoes a medical examination; and
6. Registers for the Selective Service.
3. Further limits eligibility for conditional nonimmigrant status by specifically excluding anyone who:
1. Has committed one felony or three misdemeanors;
2. Is likely to become a public charge;
3. Has engaged in voter fraud or unlawful voting;
4. Has committed marriage fraud;
5. Has abused a student visa;
6. Has engaged in persecution; or
7. Poses a public health risk.
4. Gives a conditional non-immigrant the chance to earn legal immigrant status only after 2 years and only if he meets the DREAM Act?s college or military service requirements, and other requirements, e.g., pays back taxes and demonstrates the ability to read, write, and speak English and demonstrates knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of the history, principles, and form of government of the United States.
5. Further limits "chain migration." DREAM Act individuals would have very limited ability to sponsor family members for U.S. citizenship. They could never sponsor extended family members and they could not begin sponsoring parents or siblings for at least 12 years. Parents and siblings who entered the U.S. illegally would have to leave the country for ten years before they could gain legal status and the visa backlog for siblings is decades long.
6. Specifically excludes non-immigrants from the health insurance exchanges created by the Affordable Care Act. Conditional non-immigrants also would be ineligible for Medicaid, Food Stamps and other entitlement programs.
7. Establishes a one-year application deadline. An individual would be required to apply for conditional nonimmigrant status within one year of obtaining a high school degree or GED, being admitted to college, or the bill?s date of enactment.
8. Requires anyone applying for the DREAM Act to show that he is likely to qualify in order to receive a stay of deportation while his application is pending. The DREAM Act is not a safe harbor from deportation.
9. Requires the Department of Homeland Security to provide information from an individual?s DREAM Act application to any federal, state, tribal, or local law enforcement agency, or intelligence or national security agency in any criminal investigation or prosecution or for homeland security or national security purposes.
10. Places the burden of proof on a DREAM Act applicant. An individual would be required to demonstrate eligibility for the DREAM Act by a preponderance of the evidence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act#Description (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act#Description)
-
(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law and except as otherwise provided in this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security may cancel removal of, and adjust to the status of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence, subject to the conditional basis described in section 5, an alien who is inadmissible or deportable from the United States, if the alien demonstrates that--
(A) the alien has been physically present in the United States for a continuous period of not less than 5 years immediately preceding the date of enactment of this Act, and had not yet reached the age of 16 years at the time of initial entry;
(B) the alien has been a person of good moral character since the time of application;
(C) the alien--
(i) is not inadmissible under paragraph (2), (3), (6)(E), or (10)(C) of section 212(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)); and
(ii) is not deportable under paragraph (1)(E), (2), or (4) of section 237(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1227(a));
(D) the alien, at the time of application, has been admitted to an institution of higher education in the United States, or has earned a high school diploma or obtained a general education development certificate in the United States;
(E) the alien has never been under a final administrative or judicial order of exclusion, deportation, or removal, unless the alien--
(i) has remained in the United States under color of law after such order was issued; or
(ii) received the order before attaining the age of 16 years; and
(F) the alien had not yet reached the age of 35 years on the date of the enactment of this Act.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c111:./temp/~c111axjQet (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c111:./temp/~c111axjQet)
Lawbreakers? We want to send the message around the world that we feel that kids who have been here for 5 years and were under the age of 16 when they entered this country are criminals and should not be given a chance to improve their lot via a college educatin under certain conditions?
As I said before, who are the real Americans here?
bsb
-
OK BT it says what it says....so my same question.
Who is going to pay for all these college educations for these
poor illegal non-US citizens? Are the poor suddenly going to win the lottery?
Because of costs and other factors the vast majority of
these illegal non-US citizens will enroll in community
college aka as Jr Colleges. This will have enormous
costs to the taxpayers.
Community colleges are already hard hit by the drop
in tax revenue caused by the current recession and
now the (Bad) Dream Act wants to flood those
schools with poor illegal non-US citizens.
Enrollment and funding are limited at public institutions,
Passing the (Bad) Dream Act will require some combination
of tuition increases, tax increases to expand enrollment,
or a reduction in spaces available for legal American citizens
at these schools.
Lawmakers and voters need to consider the strains the (Bad) Dream Act
will create and the impact of adding all these new students to state
universities and community colleges....it will no doubt have an effect on
the educational opportunities available to legal American citizens.
Also the (Bad) Dream Act is basically just a fraud because it only requires
two years of college.....no degree is necessary.
-
Who is going to pay for all these college educations for these
poor illegal non-US citizens? Are the poor suddenly going to win the lottery?
According to the law as written, those qualifying offspring of illegals are eligible for student loans and work study programs. They are not eligible for grants, though i would also guess that they might be eligible for merit scholarships.
Community colleges are already hard hit by the drop
in tax revenue caused by the current recession and
now the (Bad) Dream Act wants to flood those
schools with poor illegal non-US citizens.
Enrollment and funding are limited at public institutions,
Passing the (Bad) Dream Act will require some combination
of tuition increases, tax increases to expand enrollment,
or a reduction in spaces available for legal American citizens
at these schools.
Legal americans seem to have decided that community colleges are a good investment. I'm guessing they can decide they aren't in the future.
As long as a quota system isn't used to fill available slots, i don't see a problem with accepting dream act students if they show more merit than us born students. Competition is good.
Lawmakers and voters need to consider the strains the (Bad) Dream Act
will create and the impact of adding all these new students to state
universities and community colleges....it will no doubt have an effect on
the educational opportunities available to legal American citizens.
See above.
Also the (Bad) Dream Act is basically just a fraud because it only requires
two years of college.....no degree is necessary.
I'd be willing to require a degree (associates or otherwise) or a certificate of completion for technical studies.
-
offspring of illegals are eligible for student loans and work study programs.
Yeah and how is that program working out for taxpayers?
And now you appear to be supportive of adding millions more to this scam.
Americans now owe more on their student loans than they do on their credit cards or
in the neighborhood approaching $1 trillion. Student loan defaults have doubled in the
last five years, according to the U.S. Department of Education, and are now approaching
nearly a quarter-million defaults a year. The government is lending most of the money,
so every default leaves the taxpayers on the hook. Actually the student loan programs
could end up being even a bigger disaster than the home loan crisis. If this bubble bursts,
and it will......who will pay the price?
As long as a quota system isn't used to fill available slots, i don't see a problem with accepting dream
act students if they show more merit than us born students. Competition is good.
Well thats where you and I fundamentally disgree.
I think US schools should be for US citizens with some seats made available to legal visiting students.
I'd be willing to require a degree (associates or otherwise) or a certificate of completion for technical studies.
Don't hold your breath.....that is a total pipedream....to this new leftist scam to ripoff American citizens
-
to this new leftist scam to ripoff American citizens
Yeah , maybe it should be turned into a rightest scam to force behavior modification upon the illegals who are already here, and whom the state has no real desire to deport. And maybe in the process pick up the allegiance of these some folks given that second chance who just might help build majorities big enough to make sure other perhaps higher priorities of the righties get enacted.
So is illegal immigration the number one problem in america from a conservative perspective?
If it isn't, what is?
-
All bills are merged in this way. It may not be fair, but it has been the way every Congress has acted since the beginning, and there is nothing that citizens are going to do to make them stop.
It would be an ideal issue for the teabaggers, but they are too dense to even recognize this. They think they can balance the budget by ending foreign aid to Guam.
dumb
-
Yeah , maybe it should be turned into a rightest scam to force
behavior modification upon the illegals who are already here
I can only wish....they'd all get the hell out of my country!
They would not be here long if I was in control.
and whom the state has no real desire to deport.
Of course not when you have an agenda to destroy the United States as we know it
and turn it into a 3rd World failed state. Go drive around any major large city and
see for yourself. Come here and I will take you for a drive where block after block
mile after mile of shopping centers that used to be nice are now run down dirty
hellholes with bars on all the windows and all the store signs are in Spanish. Close
your eyes and open them and you could be in any run down Latin American country.
And maybe in the process pick up the allegiance of these some folks given that second chance who
just might help build majorities big enough to make sure other perhaps higher priorities of the righties get enacted.
Yeah sure with millions of poor, uneducated, non-English speaking illegals continuing to poor in
and not assimilate and burden our already burdened infrastructure. Yeah all those poor people
are going to elect another Reagan! ::)
So is illegal immigration the number one problem in america from a conservative perspective?
imo...No why?
What is your point to keep repeating this?
Have the rules changed? Do we only discuss the #1 issue in 3DHS now?
What does it matter if it is #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, ect.....
In my opinion the illegal immigration invasion is one of several important crisis issues facing the United States.
If it isn't, what is?
In my opinion the number one problem is our super corrupt government in Washington
that continues to ruin a once great nation. Yes they have been voted in, but they have
managed with their sneaky incrementalism to create a whole class of voting dependents
that almost guarantee a strong showing for candidates promising to steal more "free" goodies
and handouts for the non-producing leeches. This agenda of purposely not enforcing our border
laws which results in the flooding of our country with millions and millions of poor uneducated people
will only accelerate the downward slide into bigger and bigger socialist type government and a
transformation of the United States that as you know I have predicted will result in a new US Civil War
and/or a breaking apart of the United States into smaller separate countries. In fact I would
support that kind of movement right now....I would love to see a peaceful secession movement
of like-minded folks that do not want to be a part of Washington's curruption any longer.
Secession is nothing new. It is how most nations are founded. It is going on today all
over the world. As the transformation of the United States moves along the elite's plan...
I predict more and more people that do not like what they see will become disenchanted
and unite to form a new union. "We the People.... in order to form a more perfect Union"
now where have we heard that before?.....LOL
-
Let me paraphrase:
The biggest problem facing america is that the federal government is not enacting the will of the people?
-
So is illegal immigration the number one problem in america from a conservative perspective?
imo...No why?
What is your point to keep repeating this?
Have the rules changed? Do we only discuss the #1 issue in 3DHS now?
What does it matter if it is #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, ect.....
In my opinion the illegal immigration invasion is one of several important crisis issues facing the United States.
No the rules haven't changed. I'm simply trying to establish a pecking order of the priorities for changes that conservatives have.
If a tone deaf federal government is the problem , how do you fix it? You can't just throw one party out and put the other in because both parties contributed to the current state of affairs. So what's the real solution?
-
"I can only wish....they'd all get the hell out of my country!"
Your country?!? You're just some dumb Texas redneck who's American only by an accident of birth. You're no more a real American then Anwar al-Awlaki.
bsb
;D
-
So is illegal immigration the number one problem in america from a conservative perspective?
If it isn't, what is?
===========================
(1) putting an end to two wars
(2) the growing national debt.
(3) the aging of our population
-
No the rules haven't changed.
I'm simply trying to establish a pecking order of the priorities for changes that conservatives have.
Well BT I don't speak for Conservatives....I can only speak for myself.
I would say just off the top of my head for me the list would run something like this:
#1. Destroy by any means IslamoNazi supporting governments. (Iran, Syria, Yemen, ect...)
#2. Stop Illegal Immigration and cause many illegal invaders to leave by stringent business fines for hiring illegal non-Americans
#3. Transition to privatizing schools across America.
#4. Across the board tax cuts and super pro-business attitude from Washington.
If a tone deaf federal government is the problem , how do you fix it?
You don't.
I honestly think it's too late.
The game is over....until the next huge war of secession
Sure you fight squirmishes here and there...
You do everything you can to hold on to what you got
But Demographics will make the US mirror California.
The big picture (mainly because of their success with changing the game with demographics) is bleak.
I am ok with that...I will fight battles when I can...live a good life...find an island away from the nastiness they
have created in the big cities....and know what will be on tombstone is very true: "Here Lies A Lucky Man"
The hell with the mess they have created....I will have probably slipped by before it really gets ugly...
And for that I am forever grateful to have lived when I did before they f-ed everything up.
Let me paraphrase:The biggest problem facing america is that the federal government is not enacting the will of the people?
Not really.....
Over time the Left has smartly created a huge bloc of dependents.
No one really nocticed because they work slow and quiet...like termites.
It's called job security for the welfare pimps.
The huge nanny state bloc continue to be enlarged via border chaos and "free" give-aways. (at least thats the plan)
So you have what you've got now in 2010....producers and non-producers hungry & spoiled for more thieving.
One wanting what is not theirs and one wanting to keep what is theirs.
The producers will continue to run to islands where they can avoid the thieves.
Like all the companies leaving states with high taxes and anti-business environments.
But eventually because of the illegal mass invasion there will be not enough places to run.
Then there will come a moment where enough will be enough...and secession gets more serious.
-
OK
#1. Destroy by any means IslamoNazi supporting governments. (Iran, Syria, Yemen, ect...)
You're President, what would you do to achieve this goal? What does by any means entail in your playbook?
#2. Stop Illegal Immigration and cause many illegal invaders to leave by stringent business fines for hiring illegal non-Americans
Again You are President, what would you do that isn't being done to root out and deport illegal aliens?
How would you secure the borders?
#3. Transition to privatizing schools across America.
Could you flesh this out? Are public schools the problem or is the "system" the problem?
#4. Across the board tax cuts and super pro-business attitude from Washington.
What specifically coming out of DC is anti-business?
And i realize you just speak for yourself, but you are on the conservative side of the spectrum and as others respond lets see how your views mesh with them.
and i know this might be a better experience if we had more active members, but Debategate is what it is and i doubt it will ever grow if all the drivebys see is namecalling.
so lets give this a shot.
-
So is illegal immigration the number one problem in america from a conservative perspective?
If it isn't, what is?
===========================
(1) putting an end to two wars
(2) the growing national debt.
(3) the aging of our population
1.) The Iraq War is winding down. The last combat battalion was pulled out this week.
Afghanistan is ongoing for the time being. Pakistan might get hotter.
2.) What do you cut?
3.) Yeah that's a problem. How does that get fixed?
-
Let me paraphrase:
The biggest problem facing america is that the federal government is not enacting the will of the people?
Yes!!
Have we no creed nor respect for the common man?
Has a government by , and of the people perished ?
-
For those members who were against it, please tell me in your own words your reasons for objection.
Does not go far enough.
Babies being born all over North America and South America that we are not even trying to lay claim to, we are going to need this youth and energy and potential earning power.
Lets make everyone under sixteen on the American contenients potential Americans.
It isn't an insurmountable problem that they will bring expense , but it is a resorce that we will sorely wish we had if we don't go get it , every dime they cost us they will earn back for us a hundred fold.
It is a perfectly safe assumption that very few of these people are willingly Columbians or Argentines or Guatamalans or Mexicans , we should draft them into our nation, the petty soverenty of their nations be dammened.
If we organise the evacuation of our southern neighbors we can controll it better , when all of that territory has emptyed we should make a park of it all.That would put a major dent in global warming.
-
"I honestly think it's too late.
The game is over....until the next huge war of secession.......
..............find an island ..........."
See, people like this aren't Americans. They're quitters. Things change, the world evolves, good times turn to rough times, and people like this can only run away and hide. Well, it's for the better I guess. We don't want this kind of person infecting the whole system. Hopefully they'll wind up moving to Canada, or Brazil, or wherever.
bsb
-
For those members who were against it, please tell me in your own words your reasons for objection.
Does not go far enough.
Babies being born all over North America and South America that we are not even trying to lay claim to, we are going to need this youth and energy and potential earning power.
Lets make everyone under sixteen on the American contenients potential Americans.
It isn't an insurmountable problem that they will bring expense , but it is a resorce that we will sorely wish we had if we don't go get it , every dime they cost us they will earn back for us a hundred fold.
It is a perfectly safe assumption that very few of these people are willingly Columbians or Argentines or Guatamalans or Mexicans , we should draft them into our nation, the petty soverenty of their nations be dammened.
If we organise the evacuation of our southern neighbors we can controll it better , when all of that territory has emptyed we should make a park of it all.That would put a major dent in global warming.
Wouldn't it be easier to just move the borders southward and northward?
Is there enough room on the flag for 80+ stars?
How different is this than what UP was proposing?
-
OK - You're President, what would you do to achieve this goal? What does by any means entail in your playbook?
As I stated previously many times...
I would give them deadlines.
Stop doing "Y" by this date or bombing begins of this military site.
They can stop bombing at any time by complying with requests made.
For example...for Iran stop all nuclear development by Feb 1st, 2011 or bombing starts on military target X.
Then after bombing #1, another request is made....stop nuclear development by March 1st, 2011 or more bombing.
March 2, 2011 another Iranian military facility or base would be destroyed.
Continue this until #1. They stop activity or #2. Their entire military infrastructure is bombed/destroyed.
All done from the air.
Without military infrastructure they would be vulnerable to inside overthrow.
If they survive with no military...which is doubtful...start over same process as needed every few years
Again You are President, what would you do that isn't being done to root out and deport illegal aliens?
How would you secure the borders?
Announce new policy.
Any business caught with illegals by Jan 1st, 2012 would be severely fined.
$5000 for each illegal first time offense.
$10,000 for each illegal second offense.
No schooling for illegals period.
No drivers license for illegals.
No medical care for illegals at hospitals. None, Nada, GO HOME!
Add it up...no jobs, no medical, no babies, no drivers licenses....they return
home because life here as an illegal is worse than where they came from.
Could you flesh this out?
Whats that mean?
Are public schools the problem or is the "system" the problem?
One in the same in my mind.
What specifically coming out of DC is anti-business?
ObamaCare.
Keep extending unemployment benefits.
Caused the housing collapse & depression by forcing banks to lend to unlendables.
Bailing out and rewarding failure.
I told you years ago about when we moved into an office that was upstairs
in a building with no elevator, but Federal Regulations made up finish out
our new space with restrooms that were wheelchair accessbile...new
start-up business wasting money on such non-sense!
In the last 14 years, 53,000 rules have been issued by federal bureaucrats and
thus far only one has been blocked by Congress,? Posey said. Federal regulatory
mandates cost the average small business about $7,647 per employee."
The Competitive Enterprise Institute estimated that the total cost to the U.S. economy
of complying with federal rules reached $1.187 trillion last year, with the federal government
spending some $54.3 billion annually to enforce the 163,333 pages of federal regulatory code
http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/blog/rep-posey-wants-house-panel-review-reams-anti-business-regulations (http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/blog/rep-posey-wants-house-panel-review-reams-anti-business-regulations)
http://marathonpundit.blogspot.com/2010/10/ceo-fights-schakowsky-and-her-anti.html (http://marathonpundit.blogspot.com/2010/10/ceo-fights-schakowsky-and-her-anti.html)
Companies with fewer than 20 employees paid $10,585 per employee per year in 2008 to comply
with federal regulations, up 38 percent from $7,647 in 2005.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/SBA-finds-burden-of-rules-is-growing-865021.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/SBA-finds-burden-of-rules-is-growing-865021.php)
CAFE regulations kill Americans. Passengers in small cars die at twice the rate of those in large cars when
accidents occur. Studies demonstrate that regulations mandating a 27.5 MPG standard have caused a 14-27%
fatality increase. If the standard becomes 40 MPG, fatalities will increase by 30-60%: 75,000-149,000 people
will die needlessly during the first decade following implementation.
Hey it's Christmas....dats all I have time for now....
-
Could you flesh this out?
Whats that mean?
What would the privatization of the public school system look like. Would it be based on a voucher model ?
-
For those members who were against it, please tell me in your own words your reasons for objection.
Does not go far enough.
Babies being born all over North America and South America that we are not even trying to lay claim to, we are going to need this youth and energy and potential earning power.
Lets make everyone under sixteen on the American contenients potential Americans.
It isn't an insurmountable problem that they will bring expense , but it is a resorce that we will sorely wish we had if we don't go get it , every dime they cost us they will earn back for us a hundred fold.
It is a perfectly safe assumption that very few of these people are willingly Columbians or Argentines or Guatamalans or Mexicans , we should draft them into our nation, the petty soverenty of their nations be dammened.
If we organise the evacuation of our southern neighbors we can controll it better , when all of that territory has emptyed we should make a park of it all.That would put a major dent in global warming.
Wouldn't it be easier to just move the borders southward and northward?
Is there enough room on the flag for 80+ stars?
How different is this than what UP was proposing?
Hey that is even better!
Since it is odvious that the people of these countrys are itching to become Americans wouldn't that be the easyest and fastest method?
There just aren't any drawbacks .
-
Why is Iran's Nuclear Development Program part of the war on terror?
-
"I honestly think it's too late.
The game is over....until the next huge war of secession.......
..............find an island ..........."
See, people like this aren't Americans. They're quitters. Things change, the world evolves, good times turn to rough times, and people like this can only run away and hide. Well, it's for the better I guess. We don't want this kind of person infecting the whole system. Hopefully they'll wind up moving to Canada, or Brazil, or wherever.
bsb
It appears to me that Democrats and the current administration in particular aren't interested in 'Americans' or the 'American' way. They are hellbent on destroying everything American and the values that created our great nation. Many of these people aren't anything like John Wayne, George Washington or Thomas Eddison. They are a spiteful hating group with a chip on their shoulders and want certain Americans to pay the price for past 'sins' of slavery & racial injustice. If you catch my drift!!
-
Speaking of drifts we're looking at 2 feet of snow over this evening and tomorrow.
-
Speaking of drifts we're looking at 2 feet of snow over this evening and tomorrow.
so does this mean you are officially SNOWBLOWER JR. ?
-
Speaking of drifts we're looking at 2 feet of snow over this evening and tomorrow.
I left that part of the world when I was 3 years old and never looked back.
-
What would the privatization of the public school system look like. Would it be based on a voucher model ?
isn`t that what a charter school is?
one subject about education that seems to never get much attention is a schools ability to choose it`s students.This subject greatly effects a schools performance. If a private school should be compared to public school shouldn`t it be rated by how no student is denied entry or expelled ,then by grades?
-
"SNOWBLOWER JR ?"
Well, we are pretty familiar with snowblowers here in New England. We're also familiar with the best colleges, the smartest people, a magnificent coast line, an historical heritage, the best looking women, delicious seafood, a plethora of interesting accents, narrow steep icy gnarly ski trails, world class hospitals, deep woods, wild northern lakes, great duck hunting, covered bridges, old white church steeples looking over autumn colors, cobblestone streets, pine covered islands, ......................on and on.............
bsb
-
"SNOWBLOWER JR ?"
Well, we are pretty familiar with snowblowers here in New England. We're also familiar with the best colleges, the smartest people, a magnificent coast line, an historical heritage, the best looking women, delicious seafood, a plethora of interesting accents, narrow steep icy gnarly ski trails, world class hospitals, deep woods, wild northern lakes, great duck hunting, covered bridges, old white church steeples looking over autumn colors, cobblestone streets, pine covered islands, ......................on and on.............
bsb
way over-rated on every aspect.
-
Somehow to you slavery and racial injustice was not a "sin".
It was more like a hobby, perhaps?
-
Somehow to you slavery and racial injustice was not a "sin".
It was more like a hobby, perhaps?
Don't ask me, ask racists like Obama, Pelosi & Reid and most members of the Democrat Party leadership. You know the ones that pass racist laws thus creating discrimination, redistribution of wealth, and other SINS against humanity. They would likely be better equipped to answer your question. Even a racist like you should be able to answer your own question.
-
Yeah, right, Pelosi was to blame for slavery. And Reid provided Bull Conners with police dogs and fire hoses.
-
For those members who were against it, please tell me in your own words your reasons for objection.
Exactly why do we need to be encouraging immigration? Don't we have enough people? Enough people for what? And if we don't have enough now, how many would be enough? And if we do need more people, what kind of people do we need? Shouldn't we ask who would make the best additions? Are low-end day laborers who jumped the border the best choices for new citizens?
-
I'm not sure how the bill encourages immigration. But the current bill as written is open ended, so if the bill specified that only those eligible must meet the requirements at the time of passage or would meet the requirements within 4 years, which means they are within the borders now, would that make it more palatable?
-
No, it wouldn't be palatable under any circumstances. I can't think of any good reason why citizens should be subsidizing the children of illegal aliens. Can you?
-
No, it wouldn't be palatable under any circumstances. I can't think of any good reason why citizens should be subsidizing the children of illegal aliens. Can you?
They are being subsidized now. So what does the bill do other than give those already here a clearer path to citizenship?
-
No, it wouldn't be palatable under any circumstances. I can't think of any good reason why citizens should be subsidizing the children of illegal aliens. Can you?
They are being subsidized now. So what does the bill do other than give those already here a clearer path to citizenship?
Exactly, what's our interest in doing that?
-
Yeah, right, Pelosi was to blame for slavery. And Reid provided Bull Conners with police dogs and fire hoses.
get yourself up to speed with a little education:
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0385511841 (http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0385511841)
-
One we get the pick of the litter. It incentivises positive behavior.
Two what's the alternative. There is no mass effort to deport.
-
One we get the pick of the litter. It incentivises positive behavior.
Two what's the alternative. There is no mass effort to deport.
If I may interject here, I say let's better educate our people and use them to go to places like Mars and to design & build great things so we don't have to import people from other nations. I'm tired of multiculturalism, diversity, and having to give up my rights and culture for other people's issues. If I want third world let me buy a plane ticket and I can visit it and then come home to my home, my nation, and my culture.
It all starts with complete annihilation of Liberalism and Liberals and then once they are out of the way we start the rebuilding process. Nothing good will ever happen if we have them blocking our progress, dividing us, and diverting our attention away from what is best for our society. Is there any way possible to go back to 1955?
-
Pick of the litter?
Can you name any Mexican Nobel prize winners? Any Somali software moguls? I'll save you a google search: there aren't any.
Are we short of Americans to provide incentives to?
And if we're going to be too stupid to deport, the least we can do is not subsidize our stupidity.
-
Here is a Hispanic winner who won the Nobel as an immigrant.
Ochoa, Severo (sāvā'rō ōchō'?) [key], 1905?93, American biochemist and educator, b. Spain, M.D. Univ. of Madrid, 1929. After teaching at the universities of Madrid, Heidelberg, and Oxford, he came to the United States in 1940. In 1954 he was appointed chairman of the department of biochemistry at New York Univ. He became an American citizen in 1956. With Arthur Kornberg he received the 1959 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for the synthesis of ribonucleic acid (RNA), an organic compound that carries hereditary qualities in all reproduction.
Read more: Severo Ochoa ? Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0836336.html#ixzz19Gb0kJTv (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0836336.html#ixzz19Gb0kJTv)
-
And if we're going to be too stupid to deport, the least we can do is not subsidize our stupidity.
So how does that work?
No driving on our roads while illegal or the minors who came with them?
No school for them?
No sugar or blended gasoline for them?
No food for them, no water for them, no electricity for them? No air for them?
Anything the govt subsidizes for its legal citizens at whatever level would be off limits for the illegals and their minors?
Not sure how you would implement it, and more importantly how you would enforce it.
Perhaps you have a plan?
-
Are we short of Americans to provide incentives to?
Nah. Americans are free to drop out of school and join gangs and have tons of illegitimate children and go on welfare.
Minor children of illegal immigrants are free to get straight A's all the way through school, get academic scholarships to college and if discovered as illegal they get to be deported.
Yeah makes sense to reward the legals for screwing up and punish the illegals for their achievements.
-
I'm not sure how the bill encourages immigration. But the current bill as written is open ended, so if the bill specified that only those eligible must meet the requirements at the time of passage or would meet the requirements within 4 years, which means they are within the borders now, would that make it more palatable?
This is a total institutionalisation of the anchor baby concept.
Women pregnant and hopefull trudge the desert and swim the gulf braving extreme danger already because the birth of their child in the most squalid and dangerous circumstances on US soil cuts a lot of red tape for the child that his mother can't deal with or wait for herself, do we know how many women there are who decide this is worth the pain and danger now? Do we estimate how much this would increase?
institutionalisation wow I can't beleive spell checker liked this one
-
This is a total institutionalisation of the anchor baby concept.
How so?
The dream act affects non anchor babies.
-
This is a total institutionalisation of the anchor baby concept.
How so?
The dream act affects non anchor babies.
It would convert every child into an anchor baby.
There is a stepwise progress , first you have a child with a right to be here , then you have an appeal to not break up the family.
-
It would convert every child into an anchor baby.
No it doesn't.
Have you read the act?
-
Every child in the world under the age of eleven should be brought into the US , remain hidden here for five years or so , then when reveiled along with some proofs that the child has been here(large market for false papers here) this child becomes an anchor baby , plus he is at this point near the age that he can join the workforce.
There just isn't a child in the world that deserves to be left out of this program , nor any family on the planet that should have to do without the company of their own anchor child.
-
It would convert every child into an anchor baby.
No it doesn't.
Have you read the act?
Read it myself?
I look like a Lawyer?
How does it avoid making just about every chid that is ,or could pass for young enough, into an anchor baby?
-
It would convert every child into an anchor baby.
No it doesn't.
Have you read the act?
Read it myself?
I look like a Lawyer?
How does it avoid making just about every chid that is ,or could pass for young enough, into an anchor baby?
Why should he read it when Congress doesn't even read the bills before they vote on them?
-
Is there any way possible to go back to 1955?
===========================================
Yeah. See Mr Peabody. He is a white hound of some sort that has a Wayback machine. I think you should return to those exciting days of yesteryear. We'd all be better off.
-
Have you read the act?
Have you read the entire act BT?
-
Is there any way possible to go back to 1955?
===========================================
Yeah. See Mr Peabody. He is a white hound of some sort that has a Wayback machine. I think you should return to those exciting days of yesteryear. We'd all be better off.
OK I'll go, if you go to hell first!
-
How does it avoid making just about every chid that is ,or could pass for young enough, into an anchor baby?
One they have to apply, which means admitting to the authorities that they are illegals.
Two they therefore incriminate their parents and siblings as illegals.
Three they have to qualify for the act.
Four they aren't automatic citizens. They have to attend college for two years and or serve in the military.
Five they have to have been here illegally for 5 years and have a clean record to qualify.
Six further limits "chain migration." DREAM Act individuals would have very limited ability to sponsor family members for U.S. citizenship. They could never sponsor extended family members and they could not begin sponsoring parents or siblings for at least 12 years. Parents and siblings who entered the U.S. illegally would have to leave the country for ten years before they could gain legal status and the visa backlog for siblings is decades long.
Seven Specifically excludes non-immigrants from the health insurance exchanges created by the Affordable Care Act. Conditional non-immigrants also would be ineligible for Medicaid, Food Stamps and other entitlement programs including Pell Grants tuition assistance. States are not required to grant in state tuition rates even though otherwise they would qualify.
I don't know if i would take that deal. I would have to want citizenship pretty badly.
-
BT tell me how the (Bad) Dream Act prevents 10-20 million more illegal invaders from coming?
What is going to change at the border that actually changes a damn thing?
Dont we need to first STOP THE FREAKING FLOW OF ILLEGAL INVADERS....
before we consider rewarding the invaders and their off offspring?
-
They have to attend college for two years
BT what does that mean?
It is a major league fraud.
They "have to attend" college. ::)
They dont have to graduate.
They dont have to even maintain a decent GPA.
They have to "attend" college....and BOOM they are citizens?
This is a pathetic joke.
Over-run our Jr Colleges...and who is gonna pay for all this "attending" by non-US citizens?
-
Have you read the act?
Have you read the entire act BT?
Yeah
You can too
Bill Text
111th Congress (2009-2010)
S.3992.PCS
THIS SEARCH THIS DOCUMENT GO TO
Next Hit Forward New Bills Search
Prev Hit Back HomePage
Hit List Best Sections Help
Contents Display
S.3992
DREAM Act of 2010 (Placed on Calendar Senate - PCS)
SEC. 4. CANCELLATION OF REMOVAL OF CERTAIN LONG-TERM RESIDENTS WHO ENTERED THE UNITED STATES AS CHILDREN.
(a) Special Rule for Certain Long-term Residents Who Entered the United States as Children-
(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law and except as otherwise provided in this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security may cancel removal of an alien who is inadmissible or deportable from the United States, and grant the alien conditional nonimmigrant status, if the alien demonstrates by a preponderance of the evidence that--
(A) the alien has been physically present in the United States for a continuous period of not less than 5 years immediately preceding the date of the enactment of this Act and was younger than 16 years of age on the date the alien initially entered the United States;
(B) the alien has been a person of good moral character since the date the alien initially entered the United States;
(C) the alien--
(i) is not inadmissible under paragraph (1), (2), (3), (4), (6)(E), (6)(G), (8), (10)(A), (10)(C), or (10)(D) of section 212(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1182(a));
(ii) is not deportable under paragraph (1)(E), (1)(G), (2), (4), (5), or (6) of section 237(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1227(a));
(iii) has not ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of any person on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion; and
(iv) has not been convicted of--
(I) any offense under Federal or State law punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of more than 1 year; or
(II) 3 or more offenses under Federal or State law, for which the alien was convicted on different dates for each of the 3 offenses and sentenced to imprisonment for an aggregate of 90 days or more;
(D) the alien--
(i) has been admitted to an institution of higher education in the United States; or
(ii) has earned a high school diploma or obtained a general education development certificate in the United States;
(E) the alien has never been under a final administrative or judicial order of exclusion, deportation, or removal, unless the alien--
(i) has remained in the United States under color of law after such order was issued; or
(ii) received the order before attaining the age of 16 years; and
(F) the alien was younger than 30 years of age on the date of the enactment of this Act.
(2) WAIVER- Notwithstanding paragraph (1), the Secretary of Homeland Security may waive the ground of ineligibility under paragraph (1), (4), or (6) of section 212(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act and the ground of deportability under paragraph (1) of section 237(a) of that Act for humanitarian purposes or family unity or when it is otherwise in the public interest.
(3) PROCEDURES- The Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide a procedure by regulation allowing eligible individuals to apply affirmatively for the relief available under this subsection without being placed in removal proceedings.
(4) DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSION OF APPLICATION- An alien shall submit an application for cancellation of removal and conditional nonimmigrant status under this subsection no later than the date that is 1 year after the later of--
(A) the date the alien was admitted to an institution of higher education in the United States;
(B) the date the alien earned a high school diploma or obtained a general education development certificate in the United States; or
(C) the date of the enactment of this Act.
(5) SUBMISSION OF BIOMETRIC AND BIOGRAPHIC DATA- The Secretary of Homeland Security may not cancel the removal of an alien or grant conditional nonimmigrant status to the alien under this subsection unless the alien submits biometric and biographic data, in accordance with procedures established by the Secretary. The Secretary shall provide an alternative procedure for applicants who are unable to provide such biometric or biographic data because of a physical impairment.
(6) BACKGROUND CHECKS-
(A) REQUIREMENT FOR BACKGROUND CHECKS- The Secretary of Homeland Security shall utilize biometric, biographic, and other data that the Secretary determines is appropriate--
(i) to conduct security and law enforcement background checks of an alien seeking relief available under this subsection; and
(ii) to determine whether there is any criminal, national security, or other factor that would render the alien ineligible for such relief.
(B) COMPLETION OF BACKGROUND CHECKS- The security and law enforcement background checks required by subparagraph (A)(i) shall be completed, to the satisfaction of the Secretary, prior to the date the Secretary cancels the removal of the alien under this subsection.
(7) MEDICAL EXAMINATION- An alien applying for relief available under this subsection shall undergo a medical observation and examination. The Secretary of Homeland Security, with the concurrence of the Secretary of Health and Human Services, shall prescribe policies and procedures for the nature, frequency, and timing of such observation and examination.
(8) MILITARY SELECTIVE SERVICE- An alien applying for relief available under this subsection shall establish that the alien has registered under the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 451 et seq.), if the alien is subject to such registration under that Act.
(b) Termination of Continuous Period- For purposes of this section, any period of continuous residence or continuous physical presence in the United States of an alien who applies for cancellation of removal under subsection (a) shall not terminate when the alien is served a notice to appear under section 239(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1229(a)).
(c) Treatment of Certain Breaks in Presence-
(1) IN GENERAL- An alien shall be considered to have failed to maintain continuous physical presence in the United States under subsection (a) if the alien has departed from the United States for any period in excess of 90 days or for any periods in the aggregate exceeding 180 days.
(2) EXTENSIONS FOR EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES- The Secretary of Homeland Security may extend the time periods described in paragraph (1) if the alien demonstrates that the failure to timely return to the United States was due to exceptional circumstances. The exceptional circumstances determined sufficient to justify an extension should be no less compelling than serious illness of the alien, or death or serious illness of a parent, grandparent, sibling, or child.
(d) Exemption From Numerical Limitations- Nothing in this section may be construed to apply a numerical limitation to the number of aliens who may be eligible for cancellation of removal under subsection (a).
(e) Regulations-
(1) INITIAL PUBLICATION- Not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall publish regulations implementing this section.
(2) INTERIM REGULATIONS- Notwithstanding section 553 of title 5, United States Code, the regulations required by paragraph (1) shall be effective, on an interim basis, immediately upon publication but may be subject to change and revision after public notice and opportunity for a period of public comment.
(3) FINAL REGULATIONS- Within a reasonable time after publication of the interim regulations in accordance with paragraph (1), the Secretary of Homeland Security shall publish final regulations implementing this section.
(f) Removal of Alien- The Secretary of Homeland Security may not remove any alien who--
(1) has a pending application for conditional nonimmigrant status under this Act; and
(2) establishes prima facie eligibility for cancellation of removal and conditional nonimmigrant status under subsection (a).
SEC. 5. CONDITIONAL NONIMMIGRANT STATUS.
(a) Length of Status- Conditional nonimmigrant status granted under section 4 shall be valid for a period of 10 years, subject to termination under subsection (c) of this section.
(b) Terms of Conditional Nonimmigrant Status-
(1) EMPLOYMENT- A conditional nonimmigrant shall be authorized to be employed in the United States incident to conditional nonimmigrant status.
(2) TRAVEL- A conditional nonimmigrant may travel outside the United States and may be admitted (if otherwise admissible) upon return to the United States without having to obtain a visa if--
(A) the alien is the bearer of valid, unexpired documentary evidence of conditional nonimmigrant status; and
(B) the alien's absence from the United States was not for a period exceeding 180 days.
(c) Termination of Status-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary of Homeland Security shall terminate the conditional nonimmigrant status of any alien if the Secretary determines that the alien--
(A) ceases to meet the requirements of subparagraph (B) or (C) of section 4(a)(1);
(B) has become a public charge; or
(C) has received a dishonorable or other than honorable discharge from the Armed Forces.
(2) RETURN TO PREVIOUS IMMIGRATION STATUS- Any alien whose conditional nonimmigrant status is terminated under paragraph (1) shall return to the immigration status the alien had immediately prior to receiving conditional nonimmigrant status.
SEC. 6. ADJUSTMENT OF STATUS.
(a) In General- A conditional nonimmigrant may file with the Secretary of Homeland Security, in accordance with subsection (c), an application to have the alien's status adjusted to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence. The application shall provide, under penalty of perjury, the facts and information so that the Secretary may make the determination described in paragraph (b)(1).
(b) Adjudication of Application for Adjustment of Status-
(1) IN GENERAL- If an application is filed in accordance with subsection (a) for an alien, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall make a determination as to whether the alien meets the requirements set out in subparagraphs (A) through (E) of subsection (d)(1).
(2) ADJUSTMENT OF STATUS IF FAVORABLE DETERMINATION- If the Secretary determines that the alien meets such requirements, the Secretary shall notify the alien of such determination and adjust the alien's status to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence, effective as of the date of approval of the application.
(3) TERMINATION IF ADVERSE DETERMINATION- If the Secretary determines that the alien does not meet such requirements, the Secretary shall notify the alien of such determination and terminate the conditional nonimmigrant status of the alien as of the date of the determination.
(c) Time to File Application- An alien shall file an application for adjustment of status during the period beginning 1 year before and ending on either the date that is 10 years after the date of the granting of conditional nonimmigrant status or any other expiration date of the conditional nonimmigrant status as extended by the Secretary of Homeland Security in accordance with this Act. The alien shall be deemed to be in conditional nonimmigrant status in the United States during the period in which such application is pending.
(d) Details of Application-
(1) CONTENTS OF APPLICATION- Each application for an alien under subsection (a) shall contain information to permit the Secretary of Homeland Security to determine whether each of the following requirements is met:
(A) The alien has demonstrated good moral character during the entire period the alien has been a conditional nonimmigrant.
(B) The alien is in compliance with section 4(a)(1)(C).
(C) The alien has not abandoned the alien's residence in the United States. The Secretary shall presume that the alien has abandoned such residence if the alien is absent from the United States for more than 365 days, in the aggregate, during the period of conditional nonimmigrant status, unless the alien demonstrates that the alien has not abandoned the alien's residence. An alien who is absent from the United States due to active service in the Armed Forces has not abandoned the alien's residence in the United States during the period of such service.
(D) The alien has completed at least 1 of the following:
(i) The alien has acquired a degree from an institution of higher education in the United States or has completed at least 2 years, in good standing, in a program for a bachelor's degree or higher degree in the United States.
(ii) The alien has served in the Armed Forces for at least 2 years and, if discharged, has received an honorable discharge.
(E) The alien has provided a list of each secondary school (as that term is defined in section 9101 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 7801)) that the alien attended in the United States.
(2) HARDSHIP EXCEPTION-
(A) IN GENERAL- The Secretary of Homeland Security may, in the Secretary's discretion, adjust the status of an alien if the alien--
(i) satisfies the requirements of subparagraphs (A), (B), and (C) of paragraph (1);
(ii) demonstrates compelling circumstances for the inability to complete the requirements described in paragraph (1)(D); and
(iii) demonstrates that the alien's removal from the United States would result in exceptional and extremely unusual hardship to the alien or the alien's spouse, parent, or child who is a citizen or a lawful permanent resident of the United States.
(B) EXTENSION- Upon a showing of good cause, the Secretary of Homeland Security may extend the period of conditional nonimmigrant status for the purpose of completing the requirements described in paragraph (1)(D).
(e) Citizenship Requirement-
(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (2), the status of a conditional nonimmigrant shall not be adjusted to permanent resident status unless the alien demonstrates that the alien satisfies the requirements of section 312(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 312(a)).
(2) EXCEPTION- Paragraph (1) shall not apply to an alien who is unable because of a physical or developmental disability or mental impairment to meet the requirements of such paragraph.
(f) Payment of Federal Taxes-
(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than the date on which an application is filed under subsection (a) for adjustment of status, the alien shall satisfy any applicable Federal tax liability due and owing on such date.
(2) APPLICABLE FEDERAL TAX LIABILITY- For purposes of paragraph (1), the term `applicable Federal tax liability' means liability for Federal taxes imposed under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, including any penalties and interest thereon.
(g) Submission of Biometric and Biographic Data- The Secretary of Homeland Security may not adjust the status of an alien under this section unless the alien submits biometric and biographic data, in accordance with procedures established by the Secretary. The Secretary shall provide an alternative procedure for applicants who are unable to provide such biometric or biographic data because of a physical impairment.
(h) Background Checks-
(1) REQUIREMENT FOR BACKGROUND CHECKS- The Secretary of Homeland Security shall utilize biometric, biographic, and other data that the Secretary determines appropriate--
(A) to conduct security and law enforcement background checks of an alien applying for adjustment of status under this section; and
(B) to determine whether there is any criminal, national security, or other factor that would render the alien ineligible for such adjustment of status.
(2) COMPLETION OF BACKGROUND CHECKS- The security and law enforcement background checks required by paragraph (1)(A) shall be completed, to the satisfaction of the Secretary, prior to the date the Secretary grants adjustment of status.
(i) Exemption From Numerical Limitations- Nothing in this section or in any other law may be construed to apply a numerical limitation on the number of aliens who may be eligible for adjustment of status under this section.
(j) Conditional Nonimmigrants Otherwise Eligible for Adjustment- Nothing in this section may be construed to limit the eligibility of a conditional nonimmigrant for adjustment of status, issuance of an immigrant visa, or admission as a lawful permanent resident alien at any time, if the conditional nonimmigrant is otherwise eligible for such benefit under the immigration laws.
(k) Eligibility for Naturalization- An alien whose status is adjusted under this section to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence may be naturalized upon compliance with all the requirements of the immigration laws except the provisions of paragraph (1) of section 316(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1427(a)), if such person immediately preceding the date of filing the application for naturalization has resided continuously, after being lawfully admitted for permanent residence, within the United States for at least 3 years, and has been physically present in the United States for periods totaling at least half of that time and has resided within the State or the district of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services in the United States in which the applicant filed the application for at least 3 months. An alien described in this subsection may file the application for naturalization as provided in the second sentence of subsection (a) of section 344 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1445).
SEC. 7. RETROACTIVE BENEFITS.
If, on the date of the enactment of this Act, an alien has satisfied all the requirements of section 4(a)(1) and section 6(d)(1)(D), the Secretary of Homeland Security may cancel removal and grant conditional nonimmigrant status in accordance with section 4.
http://thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c1116k4lBB:e3831: (http://thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c1116k4lBB:e3831:)
-
BT tell me how the (Bad) Dream Act prevents 10-20 million more illegal invaders from coming?
What is going to change at the border that actually changes a damn thing?
Dont we need to first STOP THE FREAKING FLOW OF ILLEGAL INVADERS....
before we consider rewarding the invaders and their off offspring?
It doesn't. But that isn't its purpose.
-
]
BT tell me how the (Bad) Dream Act prevents 10-20 million more illegal invaders from coming?
It doesn't. But that isn't its purpose.
So we could easily have another 20 million in a few years.
Whats the point then?
What is the purpose BT?
And who is going to really pay for all this college attending?
-
How does it avoid making just about every child that is ,or could pass for young enough, into an anchor baby?
One they have to apply, which means admitting to the authorities that they are illegals.
Two they therefore incriminate their parents and siblings as illegals.
One and two seem to make the thing pretty hard to invoke.
Is the whole thing a joke? Are we really requireing these people to betray their parents to become citizens? I don't really like breaking up familys, why did we send Elian back to his dad in Cuba?
Number six looks like a good thing to attack in the courts, will the child become a special class of citizen that can't sponsor family?
I don't like creating special classes of citizen, whether privileged or disadvantaged.
I forsee a rapid extraction of the special restriction on sponsorship.
[][][][][][]
Thanks for the summary , I like the thing less now.
-
]
BT tell me how the (Bad) Dream Act prevents 10-20 million more illegal invaders from coming?
It doesn't. But that isn't its purpose.
So we could easily have another 20 million in a few years.
Whats the point then?
What is the purpose BT?
And who is going to really pay for all this college attending?
the bill doesn't do anything for anybody other than the politicians pandering for reelection.
-
the alien has been physically present in the United States for a continuous period of
not less than 5 years immediately preceding the date of the enactment of this Act
and was younger than 16 years of age on the date the alien initially entered the United States
BT how does one "prove" this?
What if someone has only been here 3 years?
You and I both know the "proving" will be lenient in other words a "sham"
Thats what this whole thing is BT....it's a sham.
The paying for the college is a sham....it's all a big sham.
-
They have to attend college for two years
BT what does that mean?
It is a major league fraud.
They "have to attend" college. ::)
They dont have to graduate.
They dont have to even maintain a decent GPA.
They have to "attend" college....and BOOM they are citizens?
This is a pathetic joke.
Over-run our Jr Colleges...and who is gonna pay for all this "attending" by non-US citizens?
I would have no problem requiring that they get a certificate of completion if enrolled in technical studies or an associates degree if that is the end result of a two year study. I think i stated that earlier in the thread.
They aren't required to attend a state run institution of higher learning or a community college. They can attend a for profit school.
-
Dear Denver Post editors:
Re: "Denying a future for immigrant kids" DP editorial 12/10/1
The Denver Post has blatantly supported illegal alien immigration into Colorado for over 20 years. Its editors and publisher callously and frivolously disregard the rule of law, the U.S. Constitution and any sense of responsibility toward Colorado citizens and legal immigrants. It has never investigated or brought to justice the hundreds of companies hiring and housing illegal aliens. It never addresses aliens' avoided taxes, fraud, ID theft, killing of Coloradans, drunk driver, driving illegally, and destruction of our schools, hospitals and overloaded prisons. We already pay billions for illegal aliens' kids K-12. We feed, house, educate and medicate them on our dime, not theirs.
Now, the Denver Post wants us to give illegal alien children in-state tuition with the Dream Act. It's poorly written, invites massive fraud, obliterates the rule of law, displaces American kids from college classrooms and drives up the costs for all of us. Udall, Jared Polis and Bennett suffer the worst report cards for immigration in the Senate and House: all F- rankings. They won't secure our borders, they won't enforce the rule of law, but they want us to pay for their folly.
As Colorado stands nostril-deep in dept, food banks empty, unemployment rampant and illegal gangs roaming all over Denver, it makes you wonder if the Denver Post stands up for lawlessness more than the law. The Post's editorial exhibits a lack of integrity, honesty and honor. The Dream Act will only exacerbate our debt, degrade our school standards and create more harm as more illegals gain amnesty and welfare. Thankfully, more sensible minds will vote the Nightmare Act down in the U.S. Senate.
Making illegal activity legal disregards the rule of law, U.S. citizens and our rights as a nation. It aids and abets more illegal migration. It curtails our children's chances for an education, and in the end, we cannot continue down this path if we expect to survive the 21st century. We cannot sustain the projected 100 million people added to this country in 25 years--virtually all of it via immigration.
Yes, I feel badly for those kids, but they can go back to their own country and make their own country better along with their parents. It gets down to personal responsibility and personable accountability.
Every snow flake in an avalanche pleads innocense, but the result is the same!
-
BT tell me how the (Bad) Dream Act prevents 10-20 million more illegal invaders from coming?
(i) Exemption From Numerical Limitations- Nothing in this section or in any other law may be construed to apply a numerical limitation on the number of aliens who may be eligible for adjustment of status under this section.
-
Thats what this whole thing is BT....it's a sham.
yeah so is the idea that you can secure the borders.
-
They aren't required to attend a state run institution of higher learning or a community college.
They can attend a for profit school.
And how do you propose this mostly dirt poor group pay for even more expensive college
educations from private schools that cost at least $35,000 or more yearly in tuition? Are
you going to add even more people....non-Americans to loan money so that the already
rising student loan default rate can even go higher?
-
yeah so is the idea that you can secure the borders.
How so?
If we set a deadline...say Jan 1st, 2012 or even Jan 2013 and said
any business caught hiring an illegal would be fined $5000 per illegal
employee it's solved. 2nd offense $10,000. Owning a business I can
assure you our HR Dept would be extremely careful to check, double
check, thriple check everyone's legal status. Without jobs BT they
leave and new ones dont come.
-
BT tell me how the (Bad) Dream Act prevents 10-20 million more illegal invaders from coming?
(i) Exemption From Numerical Limitations- Nothing in this section or in any other law may be construed to apply a numerical limitation on the number of aliens who may be eligible for adjustment of status under this section.
Yeah and?
How does that encourage illegal immigration?
-
yeah so is the idea that you can secure the borders.
How so?
If we set a deadline...say Jan 1st, 2012 or even Jan 2013 and said
any business caught hiring an illegal would be fined $5000 per illegal
employee it's solved. 2nd offense $10,000. Owning a business I can
assure you our HR Dept would be extremely careful to check, double
check, thriple check everyone's legal status. Without jobs BT they
leave and new ones dont come.
What is the current fine?
How many illegals do you currently have on staff?
-
They aren't required to attend a state run institution of higher learning or a community college.
They can attend a for profit school.
And how do you propose this mostly dirt poor group pay for even more expensive college
educations from private schools that cost at least $35,000 or more yearly in tuition? Are
you going to add even more people....non-Americans to loan money so that the already
rising student loan default rate can even go higher?
Private colleges don't have to cost 35k a year. There are all kinds of associates degree factories out there . And i don't see why the government has to back college loans , why are we in the business of subsidizing banks.
-
I don't like our immagration laws as they are.
I wouldn't mind an expanding of the guest worker idea untill it was a rational and well run program that covered a large part of our need for low skilled labor.
I wouldn't mind opening the door to leagal immagration a bit wider .
I wouldn't mind having an office in charge of recruiting and attracting foreign workers for important jobs.
I wouldn't mind haveing courts devoted to refugees appeals for asylum.
I wouldn't mind building a border fense tall and solid and deep in the ground , loaded with sensors that detect climbing, cutting and digging.
I wouldn't mind accepting application for immagration from people already here on the same basis as people that apply from their home , no advantage , no disadvantage.
I wouldn't mind co-operateing with most of the western hemisphere to trade files on felons.
What I do mind is the tug of war in Congress that simply piles a new law onto the pile of old laws with hardly any attempt to symplify the tangle of innefective and irrational laws. George Bush failed to keep his promise to revamp immagration law, too bad , I liked the direction he was going , tighter borders and more open door together to acheive less illeagal and more leagal immagration at the same time.
Clamping the lid on tighter by itself will only raise the pressure that is already bursting , liberalising the laws alone wouldn't improve the situation either , more leagals without any decrease in illeagals isn't solving the problem .
In sum , the law should be as simple and as firm as it can be made , we should start over.
-
actrually the past 3 years students are shying away from the 35k schools due to the economy. People are finally questioning are they worth the cost. I hear many in my family don`t even bother applying ,not because of money but the requirements are so high that it`s worth going there.
Thiers a reason you often hear students say the classes in these school are no where near as challeging as the application process
-
BT tell me how the (Bad) Dream Act prevents 10-20 million more illegal invaders from coming?
(i) Exemption From Numerical Limitations- Nothing in this section or in any other law may be construed to apply a numerical limitation on the number of aliens who may be eligible for adjustment of status under this section.
Yeah and?
How does that encourage illegal immigration?
This seems to be a clause that prevents any limit on the number of people smuggled in as children and presented later as applicants.
-
"yeah so is the idea that you can secure the borders."
And it is with that understanding that you half to approach the problem. So, educate the children that are here? Of course, why the hell wouldn't you?
bsb
-
And it is with that understanding that you half to approach the problem.
So, educate the children that are here? Of course, why the hell wouldn't you? bsb
So if you own a rental property and someone walks in an unlocked door
and starts living in your rental property it is wise to start paying for their
medical care and their children's education? F-THAT!
-
Private colleges don't have to cost 35k a year.
No they dont have to...but the average private university costs roughly $35,000 a year.
Some are much higher.
It's a pipedream to think very many in the big picture will be at private universities.
There are all kinds of associates degree factories out there .
Sure and really what good is that gonna do?
Oh an illegal maybe if he/she actually finishes & gets a sham 2 yr degree
in "fashion design" or "basketweaving" from an associates degree factory.
What a joke!
And then they cant get a job.....it's a sham...and most likely we'll end up paying for the sham!
Many real non-traditional degree schools like say DeVry average over a $1000 a month.
Whose gonna pay for all this "attending college"?
Can you say "Taxpayer"? Building more schools, backing student loans, hiring more staff, ect....
Most gvt run community colleges run in the black..they dont make money..so if you flood the community colleges
with non-Americans how can it not cost even more red ink? And who will pay for all the new red ink?
And i don't see why the government has to back college loans ,
why are we in the business of subsidizing banks.
Probably because banks did not want to loan to young, not much
credit history, loan risk people. (would you?)...so some mighty liberal
rode in to rescue with a "great plan" for spending other people's money (taxpayers)
and the plan called for the gvt (taxpayers) to back student loans.
It all goes back to we have a whacked out socialist-minded nanny government
whose goal is to create new dependents and create job security for
control freak leftists that think they knows whats best for everybody.
-
Probably because banks did not want to loan to young, not much
credit history, loan risk people. (would you?)...
?????????????
when I was in college the banks had a table in every student union across the country giving out card applications.
is that gone today?
-
BT tell me how the (Bad) Dream Act prevents 10-20 million more illegal invaders from coming?
(i) Exemption From Numerical Limitations- Nothing in this section or in any other law may be construed to apply a numerical limitation on the number of aliens who may be eligible for adjustment of status under this section.
Yeah and?
How does that encourage illegal immigration?
This seems to be a clause that prevents any limit on the number of people smuggled in as children and presented later as applicants.
Fine. Then limit it to a certain time frame. Say those children smuggled in prior to 2004 and meet the current requirements.
What else needs to be changed? No access to government backed student loans?
-
This seems to be a clause that prevents any limit on the number of people smuggled in as children and presented later as applicants.
Fine. Then limit it to a certain time frame. Say those children smuggled in prior to 2004 and meet the current requirements.
And how is that "determined"? What legal recourse does an illegal immigrant have that says I was illegal starting x?
-
And how is that "determined"? What legal recourse does an illegal immigrant have that says I was illegal starting x?
School attendance records.
-
School attendance records.
The state has no idea that these children even exist for the most part.
Most of them do not have SS Numbers.
So some/many may not even attend schools.
-
School attendance records.
The state has no idea that these children even exist for the most part.
Most of them do not have SS Numbers.
So some/many may not even attend schools.
If they haven't attended school then they wouldn't qualify for the dream act.
Besides it is against the law not to attend school if you are under 16.
And if they are home schooled they still have to be registered as home schooled.
-
"So if you own a rental property and someone walks in an unlocked door
and starts living in your rental property it is wise to start paying for their
medical care and their children's education? F-THAT!"
Lets see if you can get this? I doubt you can but we'll try. The child who is born here, or comes here as a child, and is the offspring of an illegal, and stays here for a protracted period, is just as important as your child or my child. Get it?
bsb
-
"So if you own a rental property and someone walks in an unlocked door
and starts living in your rental property it is wise to start paying for their
medical care and their children's education? F-THAT!"
Lets see if you can get this? I doubt you can but we'll try. The child who is born here, or comes here as a child, and is the offspring of an illegal, and stays here for a protracted period, is just as important as your child or my child. Get it?
bsb
says who?
-
ginko strike again!!
A child born in america and lived here for a long period of time but has parent who are illegal ,should not be treated the same as the parents for deportation by one simple fact. the child is not here voluntarily.
the issue of importance has only one answer N/A .
-
ginko strike again!!
A child born in america and lived here for a long period of time but has parent who are illegal ,should not be treated the same as the parents for deportation by one simple fact. the child is not here voluntarily.
the issue of importance has only one answer N/A .
You would deport half the family?
-
actually I`m not sure the kids sent off today are called deported, but they still retain thier american citizenship. What i`m geeting at is thier citizenship should not be in jepordy because of the status of thier parents.Being born here is not a voluntary act on thier part and should be a factor.
-
If they haven't attended school then they wouldn't qualify for the dream act.
Yes they would...wouldn't they if they passed a GED?
Besides it is against the law not to attend school if you are under 16.
BT it's against the law for them to be here.
-
"Lets see if you can get this? I doubt you can but we'll try.
The child who is born here, or comes here as a child, and is the offspring of an illegal,
and stays here for a protracted period, is just as important as your child or my child. Get it?
Any human being is important, any child in the world is important
but that has ZERO to do with whether the child is an American citizen
which they are not. Get it?
-
Yes they would...wouldn't they if they passed a GED?
Yep But then they would have to come up with another way to prove they were here 5 years prior to their application.
BT it's against the law for them to be here.
Yep but is that on the minor or their parents?
-
So homeschooling the prospective citizen is out , all of this class of potential citizen will be given a government product education.
-
Yep But then they would have to come up with another way to prove
they were here 5 years prior to their application.
Come on BT....you think if someone has a GED and "claims" they've been here
5 years they are going to make a major scene over it? They going to
start giving lie detector tests?...LOL...Maybe an in-depth investigation? ::)
BT that is not the way this pro-mass immigration agenda works.
They've got a country they want changed....the sooner the better.
They will be waved on thru. It's a sham to cover for mass amnesty.
And in a few years it will be time for another sham amnesty after millions
more come in to hasten our path to 3rd World Status.
-
So homeschooling the prospective citizen is out , all of this class of potential citizen will be given a government product education.
I don't see why that would have to be the case. Parochial school records could suffice for proof of being here 5 years. I don't know what registration requirements are needed for homeschooling.
A hospital emergency room record would suffice to meet the 5 year requirement.
-
Yep But then they would have to come up with another way to prove
they were here 5 years prior to their application.
Come on BT....you think if someone has a GED and "claims" they've been here
5 years they are going to make a major scene over it? They going to
start giving lie detector tests?...LOL...Maybe an in-depth investigation? ::)
BT that is not the way this pro-mass immigration agenda works.
They've got a country they want changed....the sooner the better.
They will be waved on thru. It's a sham to cover for mass amnesty.
And in a few years it will be time for another sham amnesty after millions
more come in to hasten our path to 3rd World Status.
Enforcement for this law falls on the executive branch. 2012 looms. Make sure the law and order party wins. Which could make the Dream Act the front end of a massive sting operation.
-
>>the issue of importance has only one answer N/A<<
A countries future is tied up in its children. Treat them poorly and you'll pay. All of our children are important.
bsb
-
I think someone has to consider the consequences of children shut out of school by overzealous immigrant haters roaming around unsupervised.
If they are in this country, children belong in school. The cost of not sending them would be higher than the cost of enrolling them in school.
-
the issue of importance has only one answer N/A<<
A countries future is tied up in its children. Treat them poorly and you'll pay. All of our children are important.
bsb
I might of wrote it wrong
It`s was a subject of which set children are important. I`m just stating deciding which, is not a factor at all.
-
I think someone has to consider the consequences of children shut out of school by overzealous immigrant haters roaming around unsupervised.
If they are in this country, children belong in school. The cost of not sending them would be higher than the cost of enrolling them in school.
Your dream act is a wet dream. The facts, missed by you dummy's is the fact we are broke, busted, BANKRUPT and have no more money to support Liberal causes!
Cost of school or cost of deportation, that is the question -- I like the cost of deportation, then it's a one-time cost rather than the cost of school, welfare, prison, medical, etc.
-
I think someone has to consider the consequences of children shut out of school by overzealous immigrant haters roaming around unsupervised.
Personally, I think EVERYONE has to consider the consequences of rewarding criminal behavior. and schools, btw, are not designed to be a hording center for just any child. It's a place to be educated. In America, it's a place for legal citizens & residents to be educated
If they are in this country, children belong in school. The cost of not sending them would be higher than the cost of enrolling them in school.
If they are in this country LEGALLY, absolutely
-
I think someone has to consider the consequences of children shut out of school by overzealous immigrant haters roaming around unsupervised.
Personally, I think EVERYONE has to consider the consequences of rewarding criminal behavior. and schools, btw, are not designed to be a hording center for just any child. It's a place to be educated. In America, it's a place for legal citizens & residents to be educated
If they are in this country, children belong in school. The cost of not sending them would be higher than the cost of enrolling them in school.
If they are in this country LEGALLY, absolutely
speaking of school. I happen to know for a fact that:
1. Many of these children are troubled and cause trouble in school, which inhibits the education of OUR CHILDREN
2. They take up classroom space
3. They need special education, which cost money, resources and manpower
4. They need food
5. They often don't speak our language, which presents a host of other problems
6. They rarely have just one child, more like a brood of children
6. They cost us money; money that we don't have anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Good, Kramer. I hope they break into your house and steal all your stuff, and then maybe you will understand that all school age children belong in school.
Damn, you are dense!
-
are not designed to be a hording center for just any child. It's a place to be educated. In America, it's a place for legal citizens & residents to be educated
Not originally
public schools were mean to keep poor kids from causing trouble when the parents are working. How do you think truent laws came about.
public schools was always a hoarding center and it never stopped. on the matter of rewarding criminial behavior. this should not apply for a kid born here in the states since it has not a voluntary act on his or her part
-
Good, Kramer. I hope they break into your house and steal all your stuff
Or better, arrested then deported. And if that requires an entire illegal family's deportation, then perhaps you'll understand the notion of consequences to one's actions.
Ironically such action would likely deter further illegal home invasions, if the illegal family knows they could be moved as a result of their child's illegal+ activity
-
Good, Kramer. I hope they break into your house and steal all your stuff, and then maybe you will understand that all school age children belong in school.
Damn, you are dense!
hey stupid -- they are supposed to be in school already. Did you miss the fact they CA spends billions on their free schooling and lunch programs!
1. secure the borders
2. deport illegals
3. and their children with leave with them
-
Yeah, you do that.
-
Wow...concensus ;)
-
Yeah, you do that.
What percentage Hispanic are you?
-
are not designed to be a hording center for just any child. It's a place to be educated. In America, it's a place for legal citizens & residents to be educated
Not originally public schools were mean to keep poor kids from causing trouble when the parents are working. How do you think truent laws came about.
If you wouldn't mind Kimba, could you post some back-up to that claim. I've never heard that the original intentions of public schooling was to keep poor kids out of trouble. After-school programs, yea, but public schools as well?
-
I`ll try but I got that info pre-internet from articles and several books
-
are not designed to be a hording center for just any child. It's a place to be educated. In America, it's a place for legal citizens & residents to be educated
Not originally public schools were mean to keep poor kids from causing trouble when the parents are working. How do you think truent laws came about.
If you wouldn't mind Kimba, could you post some back-up to that claim. I've never heard that the original intentions of public schooling was to keep poor kids out of trouble. After-school programs, yea, but public schools as well?
That seems like the type of racist policies hidden behind a typical (elitist) Liberal agenda.
-
racist no
class issues yes.
race is not the only problem in the U.S.
-
Can't non-poor kids get into trouble as well? Why the discrimination?
-
well thiers many kinds of discrimination.
economic discrimination is the issue at hand
-
racist no
class issues yes.
race is not the only problem in the U.S.
By far the biggest problem the US has is Liberalism. Why do Liberals want to help poor Mexicans? Well, they act like they actually give a shit about them when in reality they want legal slavery and to use and abuse them.
-
well thiers many kinds of discrimination. economic discrimination is the issue at hand
How is the child committing crimes and/or getting themselves in trouble being economically discriminated against? Discrimination is an active process, one that is put forth in front or upon someone.
And again, why is the "non-poor kid" being discriminated against?
-
racist no
class issues yes.
race is not the only problem in the U.S.
By far the biggest problem the US has is Liberalism. Why do Liberals want to help poor Mexicans? Well, they act like they actually give a shit about them when in reality they want legal slavery and to use and abuse them.
I would find it interesting to know how you define liberalism and for that matter conservatism.
-
and why, if Liberals and Democrats 'care' about these people did they not pass any immigration laws in the poor Mexicans favor when they had the chance in 2010? The Congress did not need 1 Republican vote to help these po po people! The answer is because they like using people!
-
Can you name any Mexican Nobel prize winners? [...] I'll save you a google search: there aren't any.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country#Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country#Mexico)
-
Any Somali software moguls? I'll save you a google search: there aren't any.
Several of these are software companies, many of them are large companies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Somalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Somalia)
-
If Al Gore, Jimmy Carter & Obama qualify for Nobel prizes then the standards are pretty low, unless you are using a 10 on a scale of 1-10. 10 being the most Liberal/Socialist/Marxist/Communist/Elitist.
1 being competent, qualified, and worthy of the award, in terms of intelligence, character and leadership attributes.