DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Kramer on July 12, 2011, 09:45:40 PM
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A prominent software engineer claims the Obama birth certificate released by the White House was forged by using as templates the birth certificates of twins born in Hawaii one day after the president.
The engineer, a high-level programmer for a state government, spoke on condition of anonymity but contends his analysis is self-evident. He previously, as WND reported, presented evidence that the signature of Obama's mother on the president's document is proof of fraud.
He believes forgers used the registration numbers of the birth certificates belonging to Gretchen and Susan Nordyke, 10637 and 10638, to create the Obama birth certificate number, 10641.
Read more: State programmer identifies template for Obama 'forgery' http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=321561#ixzz1RwRkG4jI (http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=321561#ixzz1RwRkG4jI)
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp)
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KRAMER....I have wondered why instead of the place of birth the
"Natural Born Citizen" aspect with Obama has not been litigated more?
The US Constitution specifically says to be VP or President
the person must be a "Natural Born Citizen".
Not just born in the US....but a "Natural Born Citizen".
You can be a citizen and not be a "Natural Born Citizen".
In other words you can be born in the US, but unless
your parents are US Citizens you may not be a
"Natural Born Citizen" as defined by the US Supreme Court.
Although the US Constitution does not specifically
define "Natural Born Citizen", the US Supreme Court
in MINOR v. HAPPERSETT, 88 U.S. 162 (1874)
pretty much seems to define a "Natural Born Citizen"
and Obama certainly does not fit the definition.
Thus Obama could be disqualified on this issue instead
of the birth certificate issue. Two different issues
entirely.
I would like to know more about this aspect....of course if
the US Supreme Court Minor Case is actually the definition
of Natural Born Citizen then besides Obama....Marco Rubio
would also probably not be eligible to be VP or President.
The "Natural Born Citizen" aspect about Obama
seems to be at least an equal to the Birth Certificate
issue...if not an even stronger case for disqualification
up for discussion.
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I agree but why did the produce a phony cert? It may come down to the coverup this time. Not the actual fact he isn't qualified.
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KRAMER....it is quite possible the birth certificate is tampered with or a forgery.
On the other issue of "Natural Born Citizen" check out the link below:
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/us-supreme-court-precedent-states-that-obama-is-not-eligible-to-be-president/ (http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/us-supreme-court-precedent-states-that-obama-is-not-eligible-to-be-president/)
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i think natural born citizen aspect might of been disregarded due to it`s simply not enforceable at the very start. pretty sure alot of the founding fathers didn`t make the cut. remember the united state didn`t exist before they were born.
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i think natural born citizen aspect might of been disregarded due to it`s simply not enforceable at the very start. pretty sure alot of the founding fathers didn`t make the cut. remember the united state didn`t exist before they were born.
Kimba if you look at.... Article II, Sec. 1, cl. 5 of the Constitution it does provides for
the Founding Fathers:
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States
at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President. . ."
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It is both futile and stupid to keep up this absurd "birther" crap. Our President was born here, raised here by Americans. Numerous legal challenges have been made, and the only valid authority, the Supreme Court, has refused each and every one of them.
Get a life!
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Our President was born here, raised here by Americans.
Neither of which mean he would be a "Natural Born Citizen"
as the US Constitution requires.
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Our President was born here, raised here by Americans.
Neither of which mean he would be a "Natural Born Citizen"
as the US Constitution requires.
He was born in the US, the child of a US citizen. What more is required to be a "natural born citizen"?
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Apparently, Kramer and "Christians" have to approve. A majority of votes in the Electoral College and the popular vote is insufficient, even when the Supreme Court refuses to accept any challenges to the validity of the President's credentials.
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[He was born in the US, the child of a US citizen. What more is required to be a "natural born citizen"?
Obama's father was not a US Citizen.
The US Supreme Court in the Minor case defines "Natural Born Citizen" as a person
whose parents are citizens. Obama's "parents" were not citizens, only one was.
As far as I can tell, unless there is a new Supreme Court ruling in the future,
regardless of where Obama was born or that he may be a United States citizen
under the 14th Amendment, he is not an Article II "Natural Born Citizen"
and thus not eligible to be President of the United States.
more on this here:
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/us-supreme-court-precedent-states-that-obama-is-not-eligible-to-be-president/ (http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/us-supreme-court-precedent-states-that-obama-is-not-eligible-to-be-president/)
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/minor-v-happersett-is-binding-precedent-as-to-the-constitutional-definition-of-a-natural-born-citizen/ (http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/minor-v-happersett-is-binding-precedent-as-to-the-constitutional-definition-of-a-natural-born-citizen/)
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Although the US Constitution does not specifically
define "Natural Born Citizen", the US Supreme Court
in MINOR v. HAPPERSETT, 88 U.S. 162 (1874)
pretty much seems to define a "Natural Born Citizen"
pretty seems to define?
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pretty seems to define?
Kimba -- I am not a constitutional lawyer so I cant make a blanket statement of certainty
but after reading about this
and reading very bright people's writings about it
people that are much smarter about these matters than me
yes...it does appear to me that the Minor case "pretty much defines" a natural born citizen
and Obama does not fit the description
again i did not start this thread....
it's not a burning ...top of my list issue
i'm not obsessed with it & rarely think about until someone else brings it up
but I find the NBC aspect interesting
much more so than the birth certificate issue
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Do we want the situation to be such that the children of our citizens are not citizens themselves?
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does this mean new types of Id`s are to be made in the future?
one for real americans and one for the rest.it looks like the list is growing.
me I don`t care since i was never made the cut with the old rules anyway.I don`t understand is no one is bringing the pint of this law ,which is this is a way to prevent influence of a foriegn power over this country.
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The US Supreme Court in the Minor case defines "Natural Born Citizen" as a person
whose parents are citizens. Obama's "parents" were not citizens, only one was.
You need to recall the elections of the following presidents, then. They all had at least one parent that was not a citizen, one of them had *two* foreign parents, but was born in the US.
Andrew Jackson
Thomas Jefferson
James Buchanan
Chester Arthur
Woodrow Wilson
Herbert Hoover
You'd think that Thomas Jefferson would understand what was meant by "natural-born citizen".
Besides, you missed a case - United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) - later than the Minor case your referred to above.
The court ruled:
"It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born. III. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established."
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I have heard it explained that Alexander Hamilton was the origional object of this rule.
Not certain it is true.
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Do we want the situation to be such that the children of our citizens are not citizens themselves?
Plane....I dont think anyone is sayin that.
No one is saying they are not citizens.
You can be a citizen and not be a "natural born citizen".
The Constitution only limits VP & Prez to "natural born citizens"
Any citizen can run for any other office like US Senate and US House...ect....
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Besides, you missed a case - United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) -
later than the Minor case your referred to above.
LOL....no I obviously did not miss the Wong case,
it is in fact discussed in great detail in both the links
I have posted in different posts in this thread.
As to the Presidents you listed
I will get back with you, I am going
to bed....5am is not that far away
but I am sure your reading on them
vs the Constitutional requirement
is factually incorrect....I will get you
a rebuttal and show how you are
wrong.
nite-all!
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You need to recall the elections of the following presidents, then. They all had at least one parent that was not a citizen, one of them had *two* foreign parents, but was born in the US.
Andrew Jackson
Thomas Jefferson
James Buchanan
Chester Arthur
Woodrow Wilson
Herbert Hoover
Every President born before the adoption of the Constitution in 1787 was
eligible because of the grandfather clause of Article 2, Section 1:
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States,
at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;"
Both Andrew Jackson and Thomas Jefferson are covered by that clause.
James Buchanan's father emigrated to the U.S. from Ireland in 1783.
When the U.S. Constitution was adopted in 1787 (and ratified in 1788),
it conferred citizenship upon everyone living in the States.
Therefore James Buchanan's parents were citizens of the United States
when James Buchanan was born in 1791. So, James Buchanan was a natural born citizen.
Woodrow Wilson's mother became a U.S. citizen by Congressional act in 1855.
Wilson was born in 1856. Therefore, both of Wilson's parents were U.S. citizens,
which makes Wilson a natual born citizen.
Herbert Hoover's mother became a citizen in 1870 under the same 1855 Congressional
act that conferred citizenship on Wilson's mother. Hoover was born in 1874 to
two U.S. citizen parents and he is therefore a natural born citizen.
Chester Arthur is a different story. So, I'll refer you to this site for the details: (more later)
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/a-little-more-on-chester-arthur-from-the-library-of-congress/ (http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/a-little-more-on-chester-arthur-from-the-library-of-congress/)
gottaGet2Bed!