DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: kimba1 on April 22, 2012, 12:23:21 PM
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My exposure of the U.S. outside of california is very limited and I'm wondering do people think asians earned thier degrees or get them from affirmative action ONLY?
I remember kramer thinking the latter and I never forgot about it.
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I have seen no evidence that Asians (including everyone from Asia, Iranians, Indians, Koreans, Japanese, Filipinos) are any less competent than White Americans or Americans of all groups combined. I have not seen any evidence of this with reference to Chinese specifically, either.
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In Macon Ga. the Jappanese company YKK is respected , they even have a Cherry blossum festaval copyed from
Washington , copyed from Japan.
Madame Chang Kai Sheck graduated colledge in Macon.
When I was young it was very uncommon to see an asian here at all, no scarcity now , seems like a large change happened fast.
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just wondering if we`re perceived as hillbillies with internet or not. I do notice despite all the grades ,asian students are rarely called good students. xo even stated we`re inferior despite the grades.
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Nothing wrong with hillbillies.
They just have a different lifestyle than most.
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Actually I'm called hillbilly only by other chinese. Due to my dialect, despite my people are mainly dirt poor farmers. Feuken should be called that since they live in moutains(mountain folks?)
That might be why i used that term.
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My exposure of the U.S. outside of california is very limited and I'm wondering do people think asians earned thier degrees or get them from affirmative action ONLY?
I remember kramer thinking the latter and I never forgot about it.
I've never heard that one. Actually the stereotype of Asians is the opposite: they're perceived as being math or science geeks. On average they test higher than whites on IQ tests....
The IQ distributions of other racial and ethnic groups in the United States are less well-studied. The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#US_test_scores (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#US_test_scores)
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I know about the stereotype,but wondered if it carried outside of my state. Remember tv and movies don't exactly reflect that particular stereotype.
113?
But jews had decades leads on us, but we're progressing at a decent pace someday seeing asians in college will not be rare outside of california.
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Kimba I am with Religious Dick. I think Asians have a reputation as being generally quite smart, hard working, with close-knit family and community support. There have been a few instances where it seems like the Blacks seem to almost resent the success of Asian's that own and operate businesses in the inner city.
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xo even stated we`re inferior despite the grades.
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I never said such a thing.I said that Asians are not considered less competent, because they are not less competent.
The only thing that Chinese are inferior at in the US is self-promotion. That is hardly a bad thing.
The LAST word that comes to mind when one hears the word "hillbilly" in this country is "Chinese".
Chinese are rather invisible in this country. The ones that one reads about in the press are college graduates, professors, researchers, businesspeople. I realize that there are probably dozens of Chinese waiters and waitresses who have come here practically as slaves to work in restaurants, but they are for all practical purposes invisible to most Americans.
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The only thing that Chinese are inferior at in the US is self-promotion.
I am a huge believer in Asians, their success, hard-work, and high IQ's,
but i would not say that self-promotion is their only area of weakness.
I think Asians in general are great, hard working, smart "copy-cats".
They didn't invent the modern car, but they make some of the best.
They didnt invent the modern computer but they make some of the best.
I would say Asians excel in many things but they are not the greatest innovators in the world.
They have not changed the world in the way people of Anglo-American/European decent
have in the last 100 years. But who-knows that could certainly change especially
if China unleashes it's full potential by abandoning Communism and fully unleashes it's people.
thats just my opinion about the macro.
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thanks
ever since kramer claimed his relative got cheated out of a spot in college because of a less deserving asian obviously by affirmative action. I just couldn`t get that out of mind. I just needed to know if people think asian didn`t earn thier grades.
actually china is capitalist but it`s the early america type which the poor gets lead tainted can foods and nobody cares. the big difference is china at least reacts to a safety issue alot more quickly than america did in the past. Internet can be a bitch to a capitalist who don`t care about safety.
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Kimba, just down the street from is Wellesley College. Wellesley's one of the best, primarily womans although they except some men now, colleges in the world. I drove through the college about a week ago. I would say half the students I saw were Asian. They aren't there via affirmative action. They're there because they're VERY smart.
Twenty minutes by the Mass Pike from here is MIT. MIT is probably one of the 5 hardest major colleges to get into in the world. I don't know what percentage of students there are Asian, but 60 to 70 percent wouldn't surprise me at all. You only get into MIT for one reason. Your IQ is off the charts.
Asian = affirmative action
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BSB
P.S. Asians can only copy? Complete nonsense. China is WAY ahead of us in many areas now. You can't copy from the front of the pack unless you want to go backwards.
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I got some serious doubts copying is that much of a negative. It's pretty how one syncs up, but what happens after that is another story. The past five years china has partially improved or changed technology. Ex. Windows based smart phones.
Meizu started the concept but the rest of the world ran with the idea and improved it even furthur. AMD has made a very good living on this.
Also innovation is a Easy fix just expose those researchers to a ton non related concepts and the imagination will start to pump. Steve jobs even said imagination is not that complicated
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I agree Kimba....but I also think innovation is partly cultural.
If you don't count Hong Kong as a completely separate entity to China
then China as a whole lags far behind the United States in innovation.
Sure the Chinese have made progress the farther they get from Communism
and embrace business. Hopefully that will continue.
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Innovation is one thing, capitalism is another and communism is another still.
Communism has, of course, discouraged innovation. Eastern Europe used coal in huge amounts, and never did they come up with any way of making it less polluting. Lysenko's bogus biology was adopted as official despite being obviously bogus, as noted by the fact that two thousand years of circumcision did not decrease the foreskins of Jews by one bit, and anyone who questioned it was thrown in prison as a revisionist.
Capitalism is somewhat more friendly to innovation, but note how long it took American cars to adopt disc brakes, unibody construction, and more efficient engines. A 1982 v-6 Buick Regal I once owned had 231 cubic inches and a pitiful 85 horsepower. Now they can get that from 80 cubes. Only when competition and regulations forced change did the innovators get any attention.
Hollywood is certainly a capitalist place where innovation is ignored. How many times are they going to repeat Halloween, Die Hard, Beverley Hills Cop? There are 95 sequels currently in some stage of being made.
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/866031/95_movie_sequels_currently_in_the_works.html (http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/866031/95_movie_sequels_currently_in_the_works.html)
Creativity is more valued in European films than in Hollywood films. I think Bollywood is even worse.
Note all the disparagement of solar power, geothermal power, wind power, tidal power that people are spouting.
Not all creative ideas will work: there is always some chance of failure. People claim they like creativity, but they will still buy tickets to Halloween 23 more readily than to a film that is truly innovative.
As a rule, Mercedes and BMW launch something innovative, and then Lexus and perhaps Infiniti make it user friendly. It has been years since Mercedes has been at the top of the least frequent repair ratings of Consumers Report. There is much to be said of micro-innovation that makes good ideas workable.
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and it's all just an accident most of the worlds greatest technological
achievements of the last century have come from free market pro business societies
you speak of a lag of disc brakes....when are toilets like Cuba, North Korea
or a whole host of communist countries going to even be able to produce/invent
something like a car?...hell they mostly have trouble putting rice on the table
much less worry about disc brakes, jet propulsion, MRI machines, or software programs.
Some change the world (free market)....others follow. (the rest)
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Bureaucracies are the natural enemies of innovation. They can be capitalist or communist bureaucracies, it does not really matter. The main difference is that the Communists can throw the innovators in jail and the capitalists can only fire them and throw them into poverty.
North Korea is not any sort of example of typical communism. As I said, it is a hereditary Confuscist monarchy.
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several times I hear innovation is like a drunken sailor. never a straight line. side to side forward then backwards with a few stumbles.
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(http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/290-width/images/print-edition/20111001_INC716.gif)http://www.economist.com/node/21531002 (http://www.economist.com/node/21531002)
The USA spends more on R&D than most of the rest put together, but the purportion of R to D favors D and real innovation gets less than marketing .
What is China doing to educate its young engineers and scientists? If they do a good job now the payoff will be lots of new ideas as their R&D teams gain experience over the coming decades.
Can China become a place that expatriot Chineese want to return to?
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much less worry about disc brakes, jet propulsion, MRI machines, or software programs.
don`t know about the others,but MRI is most likely not from capitalism. that tech is actually based on astronomy technology and that stuff is rarely profit driven . i believe jet propulsion was scifi inspired innovation which the u.s, found too nerdy and the germans used for the v2 rocket.
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Plane....as you can see Communist China nor Japan is anywhere close to the United States on the 2011 Innovation Index. Of course I am not surprised to see a built in bias in this index that separates China and Hong Kong. Honk Kong was long innovative before the Chinese took over and it is unfair to separate the two now...because either Hong Kong is a part of China or it's not. By separating them this index allows China to be in the top 10. It would be like separating the US into two segments the US and then having a separate entry under Silicon Valley. It's bullshit but typical of the usual attempts to build up China into something they are not. Most of China is a poor 3rd World Country. But other than that the index is quite interesting. Of the top 15 innovators in the world only two are Asian and one of two shouldn't even be there...but either way only two of the Top 15.
Global Innovation Index 2011 rankings of the world's most innovative countries:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/c7574b79.gif)
http://www.innovationexcellence.com/blog/2011/07/10/global-innovation-index-2011-country-rankings/ (http://www.innovationexcellence.com/blog/2011/07/10/global-innovation-index-2011-country-rankings/)
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I`ve talked about this before the primary common ground for the growth of all growing civilizations is exposure and mixing of other cultures. .remember america was once called a melting pot, that`s the primary cause of innovation . the credit capitalism can claim is encouraging it. as i stated before it`s a easy fix so don`t discount asia in five years in this regard. as stated before america is focusing away from research and more into developement so innovation will slow down in america.
Strangely I notice how tech dependent education is nowadays. I think that may cut down the availabity of education to the average person to a noticable margin in the future. ex. a comon purchase used on a student loans is a computer.
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I'm not sure where you are getting that research is in decline in the US.One thing we do well is innovate.
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remember america was once called a melting pot,
was?
it's still the biggest melting pot in thw world.
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it's still the biggest melting pot in thw world.
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Since 9-11, we have lost a lot of the foreign scientists that we used to get because it is harder for them to get student visas and harder for them to stay after they graduate. Canada is getting a larger share of science and engineering students because of this.
Only a small minority of people are good at research. It is, however a essential that we get as many such peple as we can.
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regardless we are still the largest "melting pot" in the world
with far larger amounts of people coming to the US than Canada.
and as the chart shows we have more innovation than Canada.
now please find other ways to say some place else is better.
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Melting pot is one thing, innovation is another.
As I said, we are losing out because of student visas and graduate students being forced out of the country.
According to what you posted, the US is 7th, Canada is 8th.
Hong Kong has a different educational system and a different government than the rest of China.
If you want meaningful factual knowledge, it is informative to list Hong Kong separately.
If you want to have a jingoistic pissing contest, then you could combine the two.
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Not quite a melting pot if thiers abit of resistance of exposure to other culture from the immigrants. Ex. Talking to a muslim about life in general. I did and learned a much greater meaning about charity.being around people with differing concepts is how innovation gets going
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I agree with that.
"melting pot" as I understand it, has to do with intermarriage between dissimilar groups.
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I find it strange americans say immigrants should assimilate to american culture but celebrate saint patrick day.
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Kimba all the people celebrating St Patty's Day are not Irish. But they are assimilating. I have been known to celebrate Cinco de Mayo and i am not Mexican. Or take the day off for Columbus Day and you guessed it, I am not Italian.
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Assimilate maybe the wrong word,but to ignore ones origins. America itself totally needs the exposure to other cultures to grow .
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The big national holiday in Mexico is the 16th of September. I lived in Mexico of and on for three years, and the cinco de mayo was not a major deal. This became a big deal in the US, mostly to promote Mexican beer.