DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on November 11, 2012, 10:32:57 PM

Title: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 11, 2012, 10:32:57 PM
http://www.financialsense.com/node/9695 (http://www.financialsense.com/node/9695)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 11, 2012, 10:59:37 PM
They surged after his first election. Ammo stocking is what is happening now.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 11, 2012, 11:21:21 PM
They surged after his first election. Ammo stocking is what is happening now.
I was at the gun store the day after the election.
Place was packed.
Bought a new Smith & Wesson.

(http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/2/28/SmithWesson_MP15-22.jpg/600px-SmithWesson_MP15-22.jpg)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 12, 2012, 12:23:44 AM
Morons.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 12, 2012, 02:12:27 AM
The smartest are those who have already filled a closet with firearms and ammo.

I know such a fellow , he started buying cheap guns when Clinton started looking like a strong canadate.

He has been buying styeadily and the appreaciation of his hardware makes stocks and CDs look sick.

I have lost track of him since his retirement , I wonder if he has started cashing in.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 12, 2012, 10:15:49 AM
Human beings are physically unable to shoot more than two guns at once. Buying more for self defense is obsessive behavior.

They are morons, or obsessed morons. The federal government does not have the job of preventing neighborhood violence, nor does it attack neighborhoods.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 12, 2012, 10:52:08 AM
Human beings are physically unable to shoot more than two guns at once. Buying more for self defense is obsessive behavior.


Wrong again. I have pistols for concealed carry, and a shotgun for home defense. I also have firearms for hunting and sport shooting that may also be used for home defense.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 12, 2012, 11:04:27 AM
He has been buying styeadily and the appreaciation of his hardware makes stocks and CDs look sick.

That's always kind of fascinated me Plane.
Used guns are almost as expensive as the exact same model brand new.
It's like they lose almost no value with time.
Used guns appreciate and stay side by side with the new one's.
Funny how that works...disgraceful politicians devalue our money thru the printing press
but gold, guns, oil,  just keep going up...


Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 12, 2012, 12:21:15 PM
Human beings are physically unable to shoot more than two guns at once. Buying more for self defense is obsessive behavior.

Wrong again. I have pistols for concealed carry, and a shotgun for home defense. I also have firearms for hunting and sport shooting that may also be used for home defense.

Ditto, except for the shotgun
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 12, 2012, 01:26:18 PM
Ditto, except for the shotgun

SIRS...
I have a shotgun at the office, but "H" is right
it's hard to beat a shotgun for home defense.

(http://www.tjgeneralstore.com/tacgun.jpg)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 12, 2012, 01:35:37 PM
In the wee hours of the morning, in a dark house, with an intruder prowling about, point and shoot works pretty good. And there's just something about the sound of the pump on my Remington 870 jacking a round into the chamber that tends to stop people cold.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 12, 2012, 01:39:03 PM
I agree, especially as you rack a load into the chamber.  That'll tell anyone inside to get out, ASAP. 

I have a wife who was very anti-gun initially.  Not quite as bad as xo, but pretty out there.  She's done a nearly 180 as she began to educate herself about gun safety, and the facts involved with lives saved using a gun vs those taken.  And that I've always strived to keep safety the most important feature of gun ownership.  That said, she's still not to keen on having a loaded weapon near us, much less a shotgun.  But she's ok with my pistol.  So that stays within a whisker's reach, while I have another pistol I can use for CCW use.  I have a nice pump action 30-30, which could make for a nice shotgun-like sound, and can be used for home defense.  However it's better suited for outdoor sport shooting, with its scope & long range firepower.  I'm having 2nd thoughts now of having sold my sks with scope several years ago now, before Obama
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 12, 2012, 01:42:27 PM
Gun collections are like bass boats. A grotesque expense with little return. I suppose that antique guns would be different from an investment standpoint.
===================================
I'm having 2nd thoughts now of having sold my sks with scope several years ago now, before Obama

Yeah, now that Obama is president, all your enemies are farther away, or do they just run faster?

A gun with a scope is ideal for a Ruby Ridge type confrontation, on the other hand. You really need a gun to defend your guns from being taken away from you.

Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 12, 2012, 01:47:07 PM
<--------------------  .  ------------------------<













Xo's head
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 12, 2012, 02:47:38 PM
XO, do you know of many investments that have appreaciated as well as firearms and ammunition in recent years?

If times improve and the president demonstrates a willingness to respect the 2nd admendment I expect that the pumped up value of firearms and ammo will decline , therefore I have not overindulged.

But I was wrong about the election and we again have a President who has no respect for the common man and his right to self determination and self defense.

So I have reason to regret that I did not buy more ammunition , large magazines, ammunition and bayonettes.

Not because bayonettes are especially usefull, but because they are included in the assault wepons ban (which is probly coming back) they grow a value out of purportion to their usefullness.

If there are hard times coming , guns , gun accessorys and canned food will appreaciate , I think I can still afford the canned food , if I hurry.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 13, 2012, 12:03:32 AM
XO, do you know of many investments that have appreaciated as well as firearms and ammunition in recent years?

==================================================
I do not know how much firearms or ammo have appreciated in recent years. You have not posted this. You cannot compare figures from "recent years", either.You would have to state the percentage increases for EACH SPECIFIC year for anyone to make a valid comparison.

The threat of violence has certainly increased far more slowly than the increase in gun sales, I am pretty sure. I doubt that anyone is less safe in most of the country than he was in 2008. But again, I do not know what precise figures would be needed to measure this.

Now I see that the idiot sirs is threatening me.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 13, 2012, 12:09:49 AM
Fricken how am I doing that??      :o      You don't grasp the image??  I've used it many times before, with not a whiff of some supposed "threat".  That was a response to your post, in that the point went way over your head.  Capice'??
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 13, 2012, 01:09:44 AM
Well, actually XO is more right than most in here.

Home protection: Depending on the intentions of the desperado who has entered your home uninvited it might not be good idea to lock and load your shotgun so that he can hear it. Not only have you told him what you're carrying, you gave away your location.  If he's a smart desperado you have told him what he wants to know.

Personally I sleep with one of these within reach: http://www.treemanknives.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jqjqmrlmk (http://www.treemanknives.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jqjqmrlmk)

One hell of a knife. It will kill anything you need to kill.


BSB
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 13, 2012, 01:18:51 AM
....so long as the person gets arm length from yas.  Personally, I'd rather they not get that close
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 13, 2012, 02:21:14 AM
Well, actually XO is more right than most in here.

Home protection: Depending on the intentions of the desperado who has entered your home uninvited it might not be good idea to lock and load your shotgun so that he can hear it. Not only have you told him what you're carrying, you gave away your location.  If he's a smart desperado you have told him what he wants to know.

Personally I sleep with one of these within reach: http://www.treemanknives.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jqjqmrlmk (http://www.treemanknives.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jqjqmrlmk)

One hell of a knife. It will kill anything you need to kill.


BSB

He may know where I am, and what I'm carrying, but he'd best also know it is pointed in his general direction, with the safety off and my finger on the trigger, and loaded with 00 buckshot.

One of my favorite lines, from a Joseph Wambaugh book, was "Freeze, asshole, or name your beneficiary!"
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 13, 2012, 03:47:54 AM
lol
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 13, 2012, 09:11:48 AM
Wambaugh, I'd forgottn about him. Great read. 

BSB
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 14, 2012, 03:58:22 AM
Now I see that the idiot sirs is threatening me.

Fricken how am I doing that??      :o      You don't grasp the image??  I've used it many times before, with not a whiff of some supposed "threat".  That was a response to your post, in that the point went way over your head.  Capice'??

What a surprise..(not).....no back-up, just more back-talk


Also couldn't help but notice how fast both our leftists bsb & xo dropped the Clinton defending & gun-nut garbage, as soon as they caught wind that H wasn't likely going to be agreeing with them on either.  No surprise there, as well
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 14, 2012, 08:10:38 AM
If you have three guns, four will not make you feel safer.

Gun nuts are to excess guns what Imelda Marcos was to stylish footwear.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 14, 2012, 09:24:33 AM
It depends on how they are placed around the house.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 14, 2012, 12:49:15 PM
Why not just wear a pistol in a holster around the house?

If you saw off the barrel of your shotgun, it will fit the holster more comfortably.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 14, 2012, 02:12:58 PM
That tends to be uncomfortable and get in the way. Easier to have one easily accessible wherever I go. Hidden, but accessible.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 14, 2012, 04:20:17 PM
You know, if folks like myself or Cu4 were to have made similar comments, messers BsB & Xo would be raining all forms of gun-nut verbage down upon the source.  Go figure
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 14, 2012, 04:27:27 PM
It is truly unjust how all the things that occur to sirs imagination....... occur to sirs imagination.

Shave off ONE eyebrow.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 14, 2012, 04:55:05 PM
You know, if folks like myself or Cu4 were to have made similar comments, messers BsB & Xo would be raining all forms of gun-nut verbage down upon the source.  Go figure

About my comment? BSB, probly not, and XO, who cares?
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 14, 2012, 05:28:45 PM
Wearing a holster is the economical solution for most of the time , including gardening and working on the car.

But you still need a stainless firearm for taking to the shower.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 14, 2012, 06:46:47 PM
You know, if folks like myself or Cu4 were to have made similar comments, messers BsB & Xo would be raining all forms of gun-nut verbage down upon the source.  Go figure

About my comment? BSB, probly not, and XO, who cares?

Actually, not that long ago, I referenced, actually stongly stressed, the importance of gun safety, especially as a CCW holder.  Bsb was raking me over the coals as some gun nut, for daring to have one.  I've noticed how he, and Xo, have steered clear from doing that with you.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 14, 2012, 06:57:11 PM
But you still need a stainless firearm for taking to the shower.
Nothing like a shotgun in the shower!

Big Jake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lCYxEOOCRU#)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 14, 2012, 07:55:57 PM
Actually, not that long ago, I referenced, actually stongly stressed, the importance of gun safety, especially as a CCW holder.  Bsb was raking me over the coals as some gun nut, for daring to have one.  I've noticed how he, and Xo, have steered clear from doing that with you.

They are welcome to rake away. I've been threatened, attacked, stabbed, cut and shot at (and missed, fortunately). I've worked several jobs that put me in contact with people who weren't happy with what I do, and as an armed courier carrying several thousand dollars at a time. When it comes to my personal safety, I don't play around; even less so when it comes to my home and my family.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 14, 2012, 08:49:10 PM
Yet that would get you branded a gun nut.  I too had a job that required me having to travel to all sorts of areas and neighborhoods that were, shall we say, less than stellar, and was thankful not just to have a weapon with me, but the training to use it and use it safely.  That gets me branded a gun nut.  My guess, is that you're immune from the charge since you're also a rational Bush Basher & Republican Basher, and they don't want to alienate you from their side, on those topics      ;)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 14, 2012, 09:21:10 PM
Republican basher? LOL, actually I just like to see the truth, all of it. I'm still a  registered Republican, but I don't vote the party any more, I vote the individual and the issues that are important to me. The Republicans, AFAIC, should have stuck to smaller government and lower taxes. Now they push too many issues, as a party, I disagree with.

Why don't I bash XO? He's like an appendix. Bash the Democrats? Enough voices doing that in here already. And BSB, we've been around long enough and been through enough, I think we respect each other.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 14, 2012, 09:24:26 PM
That's cool.  Just noting that's why you're getting a pass on the CCW and defensive use with firearms, that would have Bsb lavashing all sorts of gun-nut ridicule for exactly the same position
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 15, 2012, 06:18:03 AM
Well since I drove a cab at night in Boston without carrying a gun and since I carried bearer bonds worth several million $ around Boston without a gun I'd say you're both gun-nuts.


BSB
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 15, 2012, 01:41:03 PM
........ since I carried bearer bonds worth several million $ around Boston........................


BSB


I would admit that this qualifies you as a nut authority.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 15, 2012, 01:46:59 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 15, 2012, 01:57:26 PM
I was insured by the New York Stock Exchange to carry Bearer Bonds for Alex Brown Inc. It was a high paying job and I enjoyed it. Not once did I carry a gun and not once was I approached or threatened in any way.  Your take is just another example of how far off you are most of the time.

BSB 
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 15, 2012, 03:28:36 PM
actually, your response is just another example of how freedom of choice, and use of firearms for defensive purposes is so far off, most of the time.  Here's a hint, you have every right to chose not to carry or even use one.  Good for you.  Now try recognozing that this country, in particular the Constitution provides the same right for others to chose to.  You may think you're smarter and just know better, but that doesn't defacto make you so
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 15, 2012, 04:27:40 PM
I worked as a locksmith, often repossessing cars and gaining access to homes and apartments to evict people. Those folks don't tend to tip you and thank you for the ride. Many nights I worked all night and wasn't able to get home to drop off the cash I had collected, and twice I was called out in the wee hours by people who intended to rob me. They weren't successful either time. I also carried cash deposits from a local chain of convenience stores to the bank, with some stores in pretty rough neighborhoods. Rough enough that the owners hired me rather than expose their store managers to the risk of being robbed.

It's your choice whether to own firearms or not, or to carry them. I prefer not to be a victim.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 15, 2012, 05:45:32 PM
It is one thing to have a job carrying cash about, and quite another to have a gun available to grab on a moment's notice at home, unless one lives in a very dangerous area threatened by thieves who know you have a lot of stuff worth stealing.

I hardly think that being armed while working for Brinks or Garda makes someone a "gun nut".

Owning fifteen firearms is a completely different thing.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 15, 2012, 05:52:32 PM
Fifteen? I wish. There are several I would love to have.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 15, 2012, 06:08:57 PM
If you owned 15 cars, you would be a car nut. 15 guns would make you a gun nut. If it were common knowledge that you had 15 guns in your house, I imagine that you would increase the likelihood of a break in while you were out.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 15, 2012, 06:27:13 PM
It isn't hard to get 15 serviceable guns for the price of a car.


Depending on the car and the guns of course ,price is wide ranging.

So you do have a valid point there , that the same information that would discourage a break in while one is home, could encourage a break in while you are out.......

Let me think...

Signs on the frount lawn

"This house is defended by cheap firearms, and we do not answer the doorbell"

And "that creature in the back is not a cow , it is a dog"

And "Beware the Jabberwock"

And " Attourny on retainer"

And " caution>< Yellow Jacket nesting under stoop" 

And " Welcome to the free range pit viper ranch"


Of course none of these signs would halp much if the burgular were illiterate.
So schooling has a role in crime prevention.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 15, 2012, 06:29:14 PM
Well, only you know if you needed to carry or not Bear. However, having said that, there are all sorts of excuses to carry a firearm. You can't be much more exposed than picking up drug addicts, prostitutes, pimps, dealers, in the middle of the night in a large city. I preferred using my street smarts rather than carrying. As far as I'm concerned the moment you strap a gun on is the moment you become a victim. The bad guys have already beat you. 

Now, as for owning a firearm? I own several. In fact I have a permit to carry. I just choose not to carry for what I think are very good reasons.

Sirs? Clearly he's a fruit-loop and shouldn't be allowed to carry.

BSB   
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 15, 2012, 06:48:40 PM
See what I mean...same issues, same reasons for carrying, same emphasis on safety, but H gets a pass, as does self imposed for B.

Double standard?

Hypocrisy?

Ignorance?

Perhaps a combination of all the above
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 15, 2012, 07:15:27 PM
I was a victim when I got stabbed, and again when I got cut. So handing over my hard earned to money to a couple of thugs and possibly being injured anyway, or killed, would have made me not a victim? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 15, 2012, 07:50:09 PM
Now, as for owning a firearm? I own several. In fact I have a permit to carry. I just choose not to carry for what I think are very good reasons.

Sirs? Clearly he's a fruit-loop and shouldn't be allowed to carry.

BSB

Just to placate the masses, ........... shouldn't be allowed to carry, based on.......what exactly?  Your dictatorial say so?

Sirs
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 15, 2012, 08:47:52 PM
Bear

Move.


BSB



Safest and Most Dangerous States, 2010
The following table lists the least to most dangerous states in the U.S., according to rank in 2010. Nevada was the most dangerous state from 2006 to 2010. To determine the most dangerous states, rates for six crime categories—murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft—are compared to the national average for a given crime category.

 

Rank State
1. New Hampshire
2. Vermont
3. North Dakota
4. Maine
5. Idaho
6. Wyoming
7. Montana
8. Wisconsin
9. South Dakota
10. Iowa
12. Utah
13. Virginia
14. Minnesota
15. New York
16. Connecticut
17. Oregon
18. Rhode Island
19. New Jersey
20. Nebraska
21. Massachusetts
22. Kentucky
23. Hawaii
24. Colorado
25. Pennsylvania
26. Indiana
27. Kansas
28. Mississippi
29. Washington
30. Ohio
31. Illinois
32. Missouri
33. North Carolina
34. Michigan
35. Texas
36. California
37. Alaska
38. Oklahoma
39. Georgia
40. Alabama
41. Arkansas
42. Arizona
43. Maryland
44. Delaware
45. Florida
46. Tennessee
47. South Carolina
48. Louisiana
49. New Mexico
50. Nevada
Source: Crime State Rankings 2010. See also Smartest States.


http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx?q=http://www.infoplease.com/us/states/most-dangerous-states.html (http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx?q=http://www.infoplease.com/us/states/most-dangerous-states.html)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 15, 2012, 09:15:43 PM
Bear

Move.


BSB



Safest and Most Dangerous States, 2010
 1. New Hampshire
2. Vermont
.....
45. Florida

http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx?q=http://www.infoplease.com/us/states/most-dangerous-states.html (http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx?q=http://www.infoplease.com/us/states/most-dangerous-states.html)

If Bear were to move to New England
Florida would become,  a safer state?
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 16, 2012, 12:17:35 AM
And lookee there....not 1 shred of a credible response to the earlier inquiry.  Imagine that
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 16, 2012, 03:19:28 AM
Why should I have to leave my home of over 27 years to move...where? To some cold ass northern state? I was born and raised in the South, I like the South. Warmer climate, no state income tax, Southern food (can't even get decent grits up North), having my 'We don't give a damn how you did it up North' bumper sticker and only having to have one license plate (rear) on my truck, which leaves room for my 'Forget, hell' tag on the front...

It's not that I worry about my security, I really don't, but I am prepared for whatever I come across as much as I can be. I have a security system at home, state of the art, as well as dogs that, while not trained for security, raise hell when strangers come around. My wife and I both know where every gun in the house is, and how to use them - we go to the range and practice with them. It's like being ready for a hurricane - it's not something we dwell on, it's just something we do.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 16, 2012, 03:35:55 AM
You'd like it up here. You can get grits. While I have to have two plates most people don't. As the climate continues to change we'll become warmer and you'll be facing 125 on a cool day. We like hard working, non-religious, rednecks. It's the lazy christian bigots we don't like. So, become a yankee. Enjoy the breathtaking fall colors and the back roads of old New England.


BSB     
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 16, 2012, 03:56:06 AM
LOL, become a y.....yan.....ya.....Um, I just can't, ROFL.

I don't really have anything against the North, well, except Canada, where all those slow ass RV drivers in the fast lane seem to come from. They just can't seem to figure out that the speed limits down here are in Miles Per Hour, not Kilometers Per Hour. Oh, and the aforementioned climate. It never used to bother me that much, but nowadays with the meds I'm on, I feel the cold much more than I used to.

Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 16, 2012, 10:56:56 AM
I am not sure what "decent grits" taste like, because I have never tasted any grits that I really liked. I like cornmeal muffins and polenta, so perhaps I have not been ordering them at the right place. I have not tried them at any Waffle House, because I really like their hashbrowns so much.

In Missouri, we had cornmeal mush, which my grandmother made and my mother bought at the supermarket. It was fried ideally in bacon grease, which meant that (1) it had a great taste,and (2) it could not possibly be good for you. I am always reminded of my dear old maternal grandfather, who died of a stroke at 63.

My father's father was from Texas and lived to be 89, but he mostly ate Yankee food, because my uncle the doctor (who died at 99½) and his wife, who died at 87, had his wife indoctrinated against the perils of bacon, grease and chicken fried anything.

The two best things about Missouri cooking are cornmeal mush and pork tenderloin sandwiches. All the truly great examples of these I have eaten in Missouri.  Go west of Topeka and no one even knows that they are.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 16, 2012, 10:59:14 AM
LOL....but don't dare call H a gun nut      ;)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 16, 2012, 02:16:24 PM
So now I am obliged to call anyone with gins a"gun nut" because I called you one?

More of this fairness symmetry crap.

I do not submit your stupid rules,sirs.

You are a nut who owns guns, as well as a gun nut.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 16, 2012, 02:28:31 PM
...based on nothing more than Xo's 99% wrong hypocritical say so.     :o
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 17, 2012, 04:03:07 AM
Lets see. Sirs is first a nut plus he is also a gun nut. So he would be a nut nut gun nut. That's like north north west.

BSB
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 17, 2012, 04:36:57 AM
You sure produce alot of verbage without actually producing anything of substance.  It's kinda like a black hole in debate.  By all means keep up the hypocrisy of rationalizing why H is justified in carrying a weapon, and not simply some gun nut, but I am for the very same reasons he carries

(and yes, I did note the passing reference you made of us being nuts, but you quickly went on to rationalize his ok to carry, but as of yet have failed to explain why I shouldn't be allowed.  Imagine that)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 18, 2012, 01:55:11 PM
The fact is that President Obama's reelection is a stupid reason for some gun nut who already owns more guns than he can shoot at once to go out and buy another.

sirs has nothing to protect. He does not have a job where people have much incentive to rob him.

It is perhaps a good idea to cause everyone to believe that one is heavily armed and likely to murder an intruder. It costs nothing to do this, just as pasting THIS PROPERTY PROTECTED BY (fill in the blank) is a good idea.

A colleague of mine had a problem with local teenagers breaking into his house and stealing DVDs, CDs, recorders and players and occasionally food.

He and I designed a sign announcing his membership in the Boa Fanciers Association, with some pictures of really large boas and a description of a boa attack. We posted five posters near all the possible entry -laces and after that, there were no more burglaries.

Someone did steal the back bumper off his wife's Taurus, though. It was parked in the driveway.

Having loaded weapons laying about the house is a less good idea.

This gun collecting is mostly just an example of White Guy Stupidity, and will not make anyone safer.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 18, 2012, 02:23:20 PM
The fact is that President Obama's reelection is a stupid reason for some gun nut who already owns more guns than he can shoot at once to go out and buy another.


    There is more to it than that.

  Buying guns is better than buying gold, they do not loose value if you care for them and the same sorts of circumstances that make gold rise in value bump guns up also.

    It is easyer to buy a pallet of serviceable military surplus guns than a short stack of gold coin, and gold is only a little thrill to touch and own , when you buy gold you buy paranoya , next you must buy a safe and a gun.

  If you just buy the guns , during the zombie plagues you will be able to sell your investment for whatever you want as well as use it for self defense.

     I can only imagine the twinkie per pistol ratio.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 18, 2012, 02:37:21 PM
sirs has nothing to protect. He does not have a job where people have much incentive to rob him.

So, because xo, someone who erroneously thinks he knows better, says so, I should be denied the right to better defend myself and my family?  Priceless



Having loaded weapons laying about the house is a less good idea.

And who the hell has advocated that notion??


Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 18, 2012, 03:34:35 PM
That was what Hnumpah claimed, don't you read?

Maybe he only wanted unloaded guns to scare away burglars with, but he alsomade a big deal of how cocking his shotgun made a scary sound.

In any event, buying more guns will not make anyone safer,and reelecting the President did not make anyone less safe.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: hnumpah on November 18, 2012, 04:43:06 PM
Mine are loaded because there is no one else in my house but my wife and I. We both know how to use them and handle them as if they are loaded, whether they are or not. If that's a problem for you, good - it means I will probably never have to shoot you for breaking in.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 18, 2012, 04:57:31 PM
Not to mention, they're in locations that only H & the spouse are aware of, as opposed to laying about the house.  Anyone trying to break in and "find some" are likely to get popped long before they get close to any

Couldn't help but notice also how Xo didn't pull back the reference that I have "nothing to protect".  Sure speaks volumes
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 18, 2012, 05:51:36 PM
You have nothing to protect in the sense that Hnumpah had when he had a job delivering money and valuables. Not too many people really want to steal a massage table, but cash is always desireable.

Anything not under lock and key is laying around the house in my book: in a drawer, in the "secret" clock, that sort of place.\

I have no need or inclination to burglarize anything.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 18, 2012, 06:08:21 PM
I have plenty to protect despite your erroneous misperceptions, including the idea that I supposedly carry a massage table around    ::)

And anything in a secured and/or specific location that only the owners of the house know of, is NOT "laying around the house".  That's not just my book, that's simply a logical book
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 19, 2012, 11:26:45 AM
Okay, so you have not even  massage table to carry around and defend with firearms. Even less to defend with your numerous firearms. Of course, your gun collection would clearly be worth stealing.

It is pretty hard to hide things where thieves cannot find them,but they are still instantly accessible. There is the Fake Book, the fake clock gun holder, the safe behind the picture on the wall,and under the sofa cushions,and the tricked out ottoman. Am I giving away all the secrets here?

And I am not even a burglar.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 19, 2012, 12:20:44 PM
Sirs, being a zero you have zero to protect. And BTW, I never said anything about taking gun owners rights away. I said zeros like you shouldn't be allowed to carry. You carry going to the local store to buy milk. That means you're a nut-job.

And Bear, I have to agree with XO, having loaded guns around is not a good idea.


BSB
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 19, 2012, 12:32:01 PM
Nice to see our resident ignorant leftists demonstrate yet again their supposed superior "I just know better" idiocy.  I can only thank God they're not dictators, in charge of the country.....Goodbye Constitution. 

I have neither a gun collection nor can a thief find them without knowing where they are, and none of them include Xo's graspless efforts.  Amazing how I'm a "zero" for defending myself and family, while H just "shouldn't", but really ok if he does, since he has to protect stuff more valuable than himself, apparently.  Transparent hypocrisy does't fit either of you 2 well, but I can see how proud you are in wearing it.  Good for you 2
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 19, 2012, 01:04:45 PM
You're a ZERO now, you were a ZERO 10 years ago, you'll always be a ZERO.


BSB


P.S. Clearly Sirs is a wellfare queen. He is in here all day everyday.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 19, 2012, 01:07:00 PM
Xo school of debate.....when you can't back up your asinine claims, keep throwing garbage.

BSB, ignorance & arrogance, personified
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 19, 2012, 01:18:28 PM
Wellfare Queen, just keep stroking your gun barrel and stop pestering the posters.


BSB
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 19, 2012, 01:25:52 PM
You know, this effort at painting yourself as ignorant and devoid of being able to debate differing schools of thought as Xo...........looks good on you.  By all means continue with the 3rd grade ignorant name calling.  You do know what a welfare queen is, right?  If not, I could probably point you in the right direction.  Of course it might take 10 of us conservatives to help you find your way.  Those partisan blinders are pretty damn think
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 19, 2012, 02:32:37 PM
No one is less safe because President Obama was reelected.

People who buy more guns because of his reelection are wasting their money,and clearly none to bright.

People who cheer these fools on for buying more guns ate doing no one any favors.

sirs clearly thinks that he can hide guns in some magical place where they will always be accessible,but where no one could possibly find them. I shall leave it up to those with logical minds to ponder how likely this is to be true.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 19, 2012, 08:53:31 PM
Okay, so you have not even  massage table to carry around and defend with firearms. Even less to defend with your numerous firearms. Of course, your gun collection would clearly be worth stealing.

It is pretty hard to hide things where thieves cannot find them,but they are still instantly accessible. There is the Fake Book, the fake clock gun holder, the safe behind the picture on the wall,and under the sofa cushions,and the tricked out ottoman. Am I giving away all the secrets here?

And I am not even a burglar.

I have my best gun inside a fake gun, I know this doesn't sound like much strategy , but all of my furniture is made of guns.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 19, 2012, 09:02:04 PM
lol
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 19, 2012, 10:29:04 PM
Furniture made of guns seems both improbable and uncomfortable. But that might made hiding a gun more effective. You would need a good memory to find a really well-hidden gun.

This could end in a competition between a forgetful gun nut and a prospective gun thief (also probably a gun nut), both ransacking the place for a hidden gun.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 20, 2012, 11:16:28 AM
Furniture made of guns seems both improbable and uncomfortable. But that might made hiding a gun more effective. You would need a good memory to find a really well-hidden gun.

This could end in a competition between a forgetful gun nut and a prospective gun thief (also probably a gun nut), both ransacking the place for a hidden gun.
That would be a great skit.

"Saturday night live" is looking for you.


(http://static.neatorama.com/misscellania/490throne1.jpg)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 20, 2012, 11:33:41 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 20, 2012, 12:50:15 PM
Turn your guns into futons, your bazookas into Barca Loungers, your RPG's into Recliners.

That is not likely to make for comfy furniture, but it does have its advantages. 
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 20, 2012, 02:30:26 PM
sirs clearly thinks that he can hide guns in some magical place where they will always be accessible,but where no one could possibly find them. I shall leave it up to those with logical minds to ponder how likely this is to be true.

I have a "gun vault" right under my desk hidden in the opening for my legs.

It's an electric combo....real easy to operate....I can open it in about 4 seconds.

So I suppose it would qualify as "magical" since it's accessible to me,
but not the bad guys in almost every situation.

Gun vault locked under my desk, not visible to people in my office.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/Politics/DeskGunVault_zps94271e1f.jpg)

Gun vault open with S&W 357
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/Politics/GunVaultOpen_zps4895fbab.jpg)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 20, 2012, 02:39:32 PM
What's the model, C?
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 20, 2012, 03:17:30 PM
What's the model, C?

SIRS...
ha ha to be honest I don't even know the exact model number.
I am not really very knowledgeable about guns.
My brother bought several of them and we
placed them under all the private office mgt. desks.
It's has a great laser sight that's easy to use.
If I was a bad guy and that laser showed up on my forehead,
I think I'd poop in my pants!

Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 20, 2012, 03:47:45 PM
You realize Xo is going to rag all about how know one would be able to see a red dot on their forehead, but I knew what you meant
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 20, 2012, 03:50:43 PM
You realize Xo is going to rag all about how know one would be able to see a red dot on their forehead, but I knew what you meant.

ok...on their chest or their nuts!
ha ha
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 23, 2012, 12:08:17 PM
So you think that a true conservative has a logical reason to believe that if a person is sufficiently threatened to see a laser dot on his forehead more easily that a gun pointed at the aforementioned forehead?

Unless someone tries to assault you, "Christians", all you will have done is buy a useless toy. Following generations,unable to throw such a toy away, will think of it as people think of Cold War bomb shelters today.

I am reminded of tombstones with a bell on them so that the occupant of a buried coffin could ring for help and disinterment should he not be dead after all.

Eventually, it will end up in a landfill as trash, or a museum,as evidence of early XXI Century paranoia.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 23, 2012, 05:44:34 PM
a logical reason to believe that if a person is sufficiently threatened to see a laser dot on his forehead more easily that a gun pointed at the aforementioned forehead?
Of course!
A gun without a laser can easily miss.
If I broke into a house & saw a laser on my chest...I would run like hell ASAP!
If I broke into a house & saw no laser & no one hiding down the hall, I'd stay.
A laser is one piece of the puzzle.
This really isn't brain surgery!

Unless someone tries to assault you, "Christians", all you will have done is buy a useless toy.
That  same nutty logic also would apply to home fire insurance.
Unless your house burns down, all you will have done is buy "worthless" insurance.
(actually guns retain value)
However I prefer being prepared for emergencies.
We just bought a Phillips OnSite Defibrillator for our office.
We've never had a heart attack at our office, but thought it a wise purchase.
http://www.foremostequipment.com/index.cgi?item=FME-78761&gclid=CM29x8CF5rMCFUeRPAodmSoAGw (http://www.foremostequipment.com/index.cgi?item=FME-78761&gclid=CM29x8CF5rMCFUeRPAodmSoAGw)
Airplanes have them now...how many heart attacks have you had or seen on a airplane?
Probably rare...but people still prepare for the unexpected,
unlike you that has the "well golly gee whiz it's never happened to me".

I am reminded of tombstones with a bell on them so that the occupant of a buried coffin could ring
I am reminded of tombstones where people lay because they weren't prepared for the unexpected.

BTW....why do you always feel the need to demean people that make different choices in life than you? I dont give a rats-ass if you choose not to own a gun to protect yourself....hey that's whats you've decided is best for you...2EachHisOwn...but you tend to demean other's choices....can someone come to a different conclusion than you? or do they have to be idiots if they do?

 
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 23, 2012, 06:11:55 PM
Unless someone tries to assault you, "Christians", all you will have done is buy a useless toy.

That  same nutty logic also would apply to home fire insurance.
Unless your house burns down, all you will have done is buy "worthless" insurance.

D'OH.....that had to smart    ;)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 23, 2012, 10:23:51 PM
I bought hurricane insurance for twenty years and had no claim. Every year they raised the premium and several times they added a deductible. I calculated that after 20 years I had paid for my house, if I could have managed to get 7% on the invested money. With the premium where it was in 1996, I could do this in ten years. So I paid off the house quit paying for hurricane insurance. I am now money ahead,and that money is making interest.

One gun might make sense to some people in some places and careers. Multiple guns do not.

I have a flashlight with a nice red laser, by the way. It cost me $4.95, batteries not included.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 23, 2012, 11:04:02 PM
That laser might make him think you have a gun, this might work.

But it would not work if gun controll were an effective policy.

So even though your gun is imaginary, you benefit from the reality of Guns in private hands making the threat realistic.

Frankly , in the situation that is most likely the best wepon is a cell phone.

I see that you have learned the benefit of running bare of insurance , yet you voted to force other people to buy health insurance and deny to them this choice, when you voted for President Obama.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 24, 2012, 02:03:13 AM
Tough shit.

Everyone needs health care. My house is unlikely to blow away, but if it does, I can cover it.

Everyone eventually needs health care, because everyone is mortal, and unless everyone has insurance, there is no way that health care can be made affordable. Very few people can afford all the possible health problems that might afflict them.

Romney forced everyone to buy health insurance in Massachusetts, didn't he?
How can it be moral to force people to buy health insurance in one state, but immoral for the entire country?

This was the original suggestion of the right wing Heritage Institute, by the way.


Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 24, 2012, 04:44:17 PM
Tough shit.

Everyone needs health care. My house is unlikely to blow away, but if it does, I can cover it.

Everyone eventually needs health care, because everyone is mortal, and unless everyone has insurance, there is no way that health care can be made affordable. Very few people can afford all the possible health problems that might afflict them.

Romney forced everyone to buy health insurance in Massachusetts, didn't he?
How can it be moral to force people to buy health insurance in one state, but immoral for the entire country?

This was the original suggestion of the right wing Heritage Institute, by the way.

I have health care insurance, it is a big biter of paycheck but several times I have gotten good use of it.

If healthcare were absolutely universal there are several occasions in the past when I would have quit my job , but for the wife and children I care about I put up with the frustration. The Health care package is a part of the pay and a safety net that I have bounced on pretty hard five times .

If I were less risk averse , or if the insurance were less complete , I could have made diffrent career decisions.

There is some chance that better availibility of healthcare insurance will cause a more entrepenurial nation to emerge.

But this is not what I expect to see from the Affordable Health Care Act. It is not a carefully crafted law that will reduce the cost of health insurance , reduce the cost of health care, or make health care universally availible. Far from it, it is a hastyly assembled contraption that is too caotic to be predictable in its effect.

Already we are seeing increases in health insurance premiums , and why should we expect diffrently?
Already we are sure that the unemployed and self employed will still run bare , there is little there for them.
Already we see the drag on industry that there is every reason to expect to get worse.
Already we see the government paying less to Medicare service providers, whether this will be replaced from other sorces we have yet to see.

So I really expect the experience to be painfull and the pain will unfortunately still be harsh during the period that I was hoping to retire.

So in the end healthcare insurance considerations , combined with my risk averse attitude may very well mean that I must never retire.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 24, 2012, 07:20:38 PM
Nationalized Gvt Healthcare is gonna be a disaster for the country,
but mainly for the working middle class.
The poor will get something for nothing...no surprise there.
The weathly will still be able to afford outstanding care.
The middle class will slowly get higher premiums, have shitty care, and longer waits.
The working middle class will get rationed care....there is no way around it.
Slowly as more & more companies drop Health Ins, the working middle class will have to fend for themselves.
All so we can give "free" rationed healthcare to illegals, lazy people, non-producers, and the poor.
I feel sorry for hard working middle class people....they are about to get screwed!
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 24, 2012, 07:28:25 PM
Refresh my memory......are the congress critters and the President still exempt from Obamacare?
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 24, 2012, 07:30:50 PM
C4

I don't think it is as good as you expect.

Although it does put lots of power in government hands to controll the healthcare industry, it doesn't have provision for the unemployed.

That is going to have to come after they figure out how to pay for the load they have already taken on, which may never completey happen.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 24, 2012, 07:33:37 PM
Refresh my memory......are the congress critters and the President still exempt from Obamacare?


Are they?I hadn't heard.

I think a simple bill that made them subject to the funding arrangement for health care as they are making us put up with would be very popular , on the outside of congress.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 25, 2012, 10:21:55 PM
look at this crap England's about to do with their Gvt "Healthcare" that is losing billions!

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/360369/End-of-the-Doctor-s-surgery (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/360369/End-of-the-Doctor-s-surgery)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 26, 2012, 04:45:41 AM
WOW    >:(
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 26, 2012, 07:45:47 AM
look at this crap England's about to do with their Gvt "Healthcare" that is losing billions!

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/360369/End-of-the-Doctor-s-surgery (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/360369/End-of-the-Doctor-s-surgery)

I don't think that is a bad idea at all. It would certainly free up patient as well as doctor and staff time.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 26, 2012, 11:21:50 AM
Horrible idea.....and the quality of care just keeps nosediving
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 26, 2012, 12:52:43 PM
Horrible idea.....and the quality of care just keeps nosediving

Although, I must defer somewhat to your beng a professional in this field, and give proper weight to your opinion thereby....

   What is wrong with using something like this to expidite triage?
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 26, 2012, 03:00:52 PM
The importance of a hands on assessment can't be minimized.  It's why Dr's, way back when, actually went to pt's homes.  Physicians & therapists are largely only as good as their assessment abilities.  You can't get any kind of thorough assessment without seeing and putting your hands on the patient.  Sure, its cuts out time, but it guts quality of care, all the more
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 26, 2012, 05:13:14 PM
Horrible idea.....and the quality of care just keeps nosediving

Why is it a horrible idea? Seems a lot of Doctors appointments are all about renewing prescriptions. I don't see a need for hands on consultations for that. Lab work and conversation would do the same as a hands on examination.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 26, 2012, 06:05:50 PM
Horrible idea.....and the quality of care just keeps nosediving

Why is it a horrible idea?

I thought I had just answered that...but ok, I can paste ... The importance of a hands on assessment can't be minimized.  It's why Dr's, way back when, actually went to pt's homes.  Physicians & therapists are largely only as good as their assessment abilities.  You can't get any kind of thorough assessment without seeing and putting your hands on the patient.  Sure, its cuts out time, but it guts quality of care, all the more
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 26, 2012, 07:15:20 PM
4 out of my last 5 drs appointments did not involve hands on assessment. The one that did involved a stethoscope. I don't see why , in my case, 80% of the visits couldn't be done remotely.

I can see where in physical therapy you need to assessment range of movement etc that would require measurements etc, but in my case, when new symptoms are not presenting, both patient and doctor would benefit from the time savings without a loss in quality of the care.

So no, i don't think it a horrible idea and i don't accept your argument as convincing, i find it self centered and closed minded.

Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Plane on November 26, 2012, 07:16:29 PM
I have been expecting more work for RN and technition level medical personell, as our population ages and grows, can't an Idea like this help cover the need?

What is the better alternative?

More Doctors?
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 26, 2012, 07:38:48 PM
There is quite a bit of remote diagnostics going on. I know in GA of doctors accessing stroke victims to see if they would benefit from an injection of alteplase, which if injected within 4.5 hours not only saves lives but has left many a patient with no visible after effects of the stroke.

Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 26, 2012, 09:04:01 PM
4 out of my last 5 drs appointments did not involve hands on assessment. The one that did involved a stethoscope. I don't see why , in my case, 80% of the visits couldn't be done remotely.  

Your status as a patient may be the exception to the rule, if your Dr never really has to actually examine you.  A medical professional is only as good as their assessment.  You physically can't assess someone, if they're not physcially in your presence.  You can't move things or look under things, or appreciate depth or tone, or tolerance.   

So perhaps in your case its plausible, though if I had a cardiac history, by God, I'd want the presence of my cadiologist for any and all visits.  This is just another layer of depersonalizing, as Physicians are being required to see more and more patients, within the same 8+hour day.  It's just not possible to provide the same quality of care, especially if you don't even see them
 
Sorry of my support for quality of care is so "close minded".  I should say damn the patients, full speed ahead
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 26, 2012, 10:14:15 PM
Quote
Your status as a patient may be the exception to the rule, if your Dr never really has to actually examine you.

I doubt it. But to be clear i didn't say my doctors never had to examine me, i said of the last 5 visits, 4 could have been handled remotely.

Let me give you another example.

One of my numbers is trending upwards. During my last visit, it was decided that we would see what the next labs showed. The results were showing that that particular number was still trending upwards.

2 days after i had the labs i had a call from my cardiology nurse stating that the doctor wanted to double the dose on one of my meds and that she would be piggy backing some tests when i go for a cat scan in December. I emailed her back acknowledging the change in medication.

No visit necessary, no 25 mile trip. No hands on assessment needed.

How many medical disciplines have to physically assess a patient. And if the need does arise then a physical appointment is set. Even the British system allows for that.


Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 26, 2012, 10:37:08 PM
Quote
Your status as a patient may be the exception to the rule, if your Dr never really has to actually examine you.

I doubt it. But to be clear i didn't say my doctors never had to examine me, i said of the last 5 visits, 4 could have been handled remotely. ...How many medical disciplines have to physically assess a patient.

Most every Doctor, and pretty much every Therapist


And if the need does arise then a physical appointment is set. Even the British system allows for that.

Yea, at what level of wait time?  How many months just for a routine exam?  And not if what I saw being proposed is being set to be implimented.  As I said, screw the patient, there are dollars to be saved

Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 26, 2012, 10:46:57 PM
Quote
Most every Doctor, and pretty much every Therapist

Is this an assertion that i should take as Gospel?

My guess is you have no real experience with video conferencing and your reaction is based on speculation.


Quote
Yea, at what level of wait time?  How many months just for a routine exam?  And not if what I saw being proposed is being set to be implimented.  As I said, screw the patient, there are dollars to be saved

Since the initial consultation has already taken place, triage been done, my guess is the routing to the appropriate specialist would be fast tracked, depending on the nature of the ailment.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BSB on November 26, 2012, 11:21:43 PM
Will wonders never cease? I actually agree with Sirs on this one.

BTW, Plane, I see my doctors licenced practitioner for some things. She is more available and checks with my doc before making a change. So really it's like seeing my doctor but easier.

BSB
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 27, 2012, 12:13:31 AM
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Most every Doctor, and pretty much every Therapist

Is this an assertion that i should take as Gospel?

You asked a question, I gave you an educated guess, as a Health Care Professional, intimate with the dealings in providing healthcare


My guess is you have no real experience with video conferencing and your reaction is based on speculation.

My "reaction" is nothing more that patient advocacy, with an emphasis on quality of care.  You can not provide quality of care over a TV screen.  Under UHC, It gets screwed in order to save more dollars, and under the current tangent being discussed, the patient gets screwed even more so, with a lessening of time between patients & physicians, even more


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Yea, at what level of wait time?  How many months just for a routine exam?  And not if what I saw being proposed is being set to be implimented.  As I said, screw the patient, there are dollars to be saved

Since the initial consultation has already taken place, triage been done, my guess is the routing to the appropriate specialist would be fast tracked, depending on the nature of the ailment.

Good guess, but likely still taking months, given what we read coming across the Atlantic.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 27, 2012, 12:41:33 AM
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You can not provide quality of care over a TV screen. 

Define quality care.

And i doubt a video consult would be on a TV screen. It would be on a computer monitor and preferably recorded.

I grant that some medical disciplines can not work without in person contact. Dentistry comes to mind. xrays and ultrasounds currently could not be performed remotely. Psychiatry and Psychology could. Cardiology and pulmonary as well as primary follow ups definitely could.

I don't see any reason why remote medicine could not be as personal, efficient and accurate as in person medicine should be. And your claiming it wouldn't without any backups or examples is not convincing me otherwise.


Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 27, 2012, 12:57:08 AM
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You can not provide quality of care over a TV screen. 

Define quality care.

The ability to provide quality care, specific to that patient's needs.  You can't look under certain folds in skin, you can't palpate irregular nodes, you can't pat someone on the back on telling them how well they're doing....you can't do any of those things threw some disconnected artificial interface


And i doubt a video consult would be on a TV screen. It would be on a computer monitor and preferably recorded.

.....on a TV-LIKE screen.  What the hell is a Computer monitor, but a small TV screen     ::)


I don't see any reason why remote medicine could not be as personal, efficient and accurate as in person medicine should be.

I see plenty, as a health care provider, 1st and foremost the severe decline in the quality of care to patients
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 27, 2012, 01:22:47 AM
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The ability to provide quality care, specific to that patient's needs.

You know i find the most valuable trait in a good doctor.

The ability to listen. To observe. To ask follow up questions.

And if needed order further testing. All of which can be handled remotely.

I certainly don't agree that an attaboy can't be given remotely.


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.....on a TV-LIKE screen.

Oh. Why didn't you say so . I think computer monitors are capable of delivering higher resolution images than run of the mill black friday special TeeVee.

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I see plenty, as a health care provider, 1st and foremost the severe decline in the quality of care to patients

Your specialty is physical therapy and is thus limited to those disciplines covered by your certifications. I believe this discussion concerns Medical Doctors. So your say so is not gospel, as it were.

Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 27, 2012, 02:23:10 AM
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The ability to provide quality care, specific to that patient's needs.

You know i find the most valuable trait in a good doctor.

The ability to listen. To observe. To ask follow up questions.

And if needed order further testing. All of which can be handled remotely.

Minus of course the intangible personal connection.  You can get a good computer voice to go along with your version.  Make him sound like Yoda even....."MRI test you must"


I certainly don't agree that an attaboy can't be given remotely.

I sure can, certainly not near to the level that a hand shake or even supportive pat on the back, that no monitor can perform


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.....on a TV-LIKE screen.

Oh. Why didn't you say so . I think computer monitors are capable of delivering higher resolution images than run of the mill black friday special TeeVee.

Yea, because that's what I look for in a Dr...how good his resolution comes across a monitor.    ::)


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I see plenty, as a health care provider, 1st and foremost the severe decline in the quality of care to patients

Your specialty is physical therapy and is thus limited to those disciplines covered by your certifications. I believe this discussion concerns Medical Doctors. So your say so is not gospel, as it were.

My specialty is in Professional Healthcare, nor do I claim some form of gospel certification.  Merely that I have ample experience in the field, both as a provider and a recipient, with an intimate connection to all manner of health professionals, from pharmacists, to nursing, to social services, to physicians.  I see the quality of care declining across the spectrum, which inclides Physicians.  The idea that only a Physician can provide any expert opinion, while all others are void, is analogus to being unable to make any valid comments regarding the pros & cons of birth control, unless you're a woman
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 27, 2012, 02:31:57 AM
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I see the quality of care declining across the spectrum, which inclides Physicians.

And all this without remote consultations. So is the problem the medium or the personnel?

By the way, my meds are mailed to me . I couldn't tell you who the pharmacist is.

I just know that i renew them each month online and they arrive a couple days later, like clockwork.

Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: sirs on November 27, 2012, 02:41:42 AM
The problem is in the process of creating an enviroment that requires less and less physicians to see more and more patients.  Making those absolutely necessary personal connections harder and harder to establish and take root.  This programs take the impersonal to a whole new level
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: BT on November 27, 2012, 07:22:16 AM
The problem is in the process of creating an enviroment that requires less and less physicians to see more and more patients.  Making those absolutely necessary personal connections harder and harder to establish and take root.  This programs take the impersonal to a whole new level

You say that like it is a bad thing. Being the medical expert you claim to be, what percentage of medicine do you think is based on observe, diagnose,  prescribe?

You act like we are still in the age of Dr. Welby. We aren't and haven't been since the 60's.


Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 27, 2012, 09:57:02 AM
By the way, my meds are mailed to me . I couldn't tell you who the pharmacist is.

I just know that i renew them each month online and they arrive a couple days later, like clockwork.


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I do the same. There is a Walgreen's three blocks from here and a CVS half a block farther down the avenue, but the personal attention is pretty much nil. There is one pharmacist, several assistants and a cashier. It takes half an hour of waiting to talk with the pharmacist,and every prescription from anywhere comes with a pretty thorough page of contraindications.

The mailorder pharmacy is more convenient. Since I pay nothing, the price is unimportant.
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on November 27, 2012, 10:28:52 AM
Good for this guy!

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/76161_10151268082446178_1147130772_n.jpg)

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/gun-store-owner-who-banned-obama-supporters-says-business-booming (http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/gun-store-owner-who-banned-obama-supporters-says-business-booming)
Title: Re: Gun Sales Surge After Obama Re-election!
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on November 27, 2012, 11:42:32 AM
Go watch a football game.

"Shooting authority" there is a really dumb name.