DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: sirs on November 11, 2014, 02:44:14 AM
-
boy oh boy......this fella is truly a breath of fresh honest air.
Rewind a bit....this fella, one of the chief architects to Obamination Care, who was on record making it painfully clear that when the law was "written", ONLY those states that started their own healthcare exchanges, would receive Federal subsidies. Expecting of course, that the vast majority of the states would do all the heavy lifting of implementing this piece of legislative garbage.
Fast forward a bit, and uh ohhh, most of the states told the Fed to do it yourself. Now, what to do with all those millions of foils that won't receive any federal subsidies? We pretend the law never meant to exclude those states....we'll just say the law meant to include it, but just wasn't worded right. Riiiiight.
Fast forward to current time.....in an honorable moment of brutal honesty, Mr Gruber is now on record has indicating the law was written to be purposely vague, not only to fool "stupid Americans", but the CBO as well, in order to "score the law, not as a tax", when everyone knew it iwas, validated by Judge Roberts' SCOTUS ruling. He went on to also indicate, that if the American people knew what the law really was, they'd have never supported it (news flash Mr Gruber, they never did to begin with).
Once again, we have a window into the elitist left, who just knows better than the rest of us, and in this case, a rhetorical smoking gun, that if it takes lying to us stupid Americans to pass a law, then so be it.........ends justifying the means.
-
Pretty clear cut.....no state exchange, no subsidy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBAHvX1WdWc)
Just a typo?? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg5Sxz4YSgE)
Watch & cringe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI)
-
I saw that this morning, so...
Is this elitist attitude common in the administration?
Does the president hire people that think this way because he also ....
anyway
A gaffe is when a person in power says what he really thinks.
-
I saw that this morning, so...
Is this elitist attitude common in the administration?
Yep....you see it with everything else....from Fast & Furious, to Benghazi, to the IRS, to the VA. You see that same attitude and them some.....leave us alone, we know better
Does the president hire people that think this way because he also ....
Unless he's grossly incompetent, yea, you surround yourself with like minds, especially when it comes to your pet projects.
-
Elitists are the ones who think of decent health care for all, regardless of income, as a bad thing.
The Kochs are elitists. The National Chamber of Commerce is festering with elitists. The GOP is the elitist party. The 'baggers are poboy elitists.
-
Not when its payed for with other people's $$$$. Elitists are those who think they know better and will lie, or whatever else they have to do unethically, illegally, or even unconstitutionally, to implement what they deem to know better. And screw the repercussions
None of that can be applied to any of your deflection examples, I'm afraid
-
Be afraid......be very afraid!!!!
-
...of the ends justifying the means approach the luntatic left employs when ever it can?? Even when stomping on the Constitution?? You bet. The country should be very afraid at what's trying to be pulled
-
This commentary sure became prophetic, as it relates to the effort on maintaining the least transparent administration possible (http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=18446.msg161467#msg161467). The less transparent, the greater the political manipulation of policy
Stupid American voter
-
Elitist: (dictionary) a person or class of persons considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society
- catering to or associated with an elitist class, its ideologies, or its institutions
- a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society
- a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class
None of those appears to describe the Kochs or Republicans in general, in any way shape or form. It does, to a tea, describe the mindset of Mr. Gruber.
Or perhaps the good professor here can explain/justify Government officials lying to the american citizenry to pass legislation they know wouldn't pass if the truth were used instead
-
pass legislation they know wouldn't pass if the truth were used instead[/b]
We've come to expect it.
-
And that's what we really should be afraid of
-
Mr. Gruber.
.............. explain/justify Government officials lying to the american citizenry to pass legislation they know wouldn't pass if the truth were used instead
We've come to expect it.
When we’ve already reached that level of fraud to pass this boondoggle, why sweat the fact that the guy who wrote the law admits they pulled a fast one on CBO and the dim, gullible American electorate?
Obama knew “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan” was a lie from day one. He told it anyway because it was useful in selling the law to skeptical voters. All Gruber’s guilty of is summing up the approach that we’ve seen playing out with our own eyes for the past five years.
-
Yesterday on MSNBC Gruber said he regrets the "inappropriate" comments (he didn't apologize for lying) and explained that they were made "off-the-cuff" at an academic conference.
There's only one problem with that. A new, second video of Gruber calling Americans stupid during an explanation of Obamacare has surfaced. And by the way, Gruber was paid $400,000 in tax money to come up with Obamacare and to directly advise President Obama about the law.
To make things worse, the Daily Caller is now reporting on a third video where Gruber is seen bragging about exploiting Americans who don't understand redistribution of wealth economics
Gruber's comments about stupid Americans aren't "off the cuff," they're based on the liberal philosophy that humans, especially Americans, are too stupid to make their own decisions and therefore the government must do things for them.
Further, if Americans are too stupid to understand Obamacare, then why did the Obama administration go to great lengths to hide exactly what Obamacare really is? If Obamacare is so hard to understand, then why the need to cover-up what's in the bill in order to ensure Americans don't understand it?
-
Further, if Americans are too stupid to understand Obamacare, then why did the Obama administration go to great lengths to hide exactly what Obamacare really is? If Obamacare is so hard to understand, then why the need to cover-up what's in the bill in order to ensure Americans don't understand it?[/i]
Now there is a darn good question!
-
Don't expect any answers, anytime soon. Apparently Mr Gruber mispoke....on multiple occasions, no less ::)
-
Just imagine the reaction of the liberal media if a video had surfaced of a George W. Bush administration official admitting that “lack of transparency” was “a huge political advantage” in selling the Iraq war and that they relied on the “stupidity of the American voter” to launch an attack on Iraq? It would be 24/7 news
Fast forward to current time
The clip of ObamaCare architect Jonathan Gruber using those exact phrases in talking about the passage of Obama's signature piece of legislation, the Affordable Care Act has yet to be reported on ABC or NBC’s evening or morning shows. The sum total of Big Three (ABC, CBS, NBC) network coverage was a 2 minute, 50 second segment on Thursday’s CBS This Morning - six days after the tape was first discovered.
On the print side the Washington Post offered a front page story on Gruber on Thursday. But the Gruber comment has yet to show up in the pages of The New York Times, USA Today, the Los Angeles Times or even the Associated Press.
Public broadcasting has been a no-show as well, with no Gruber mentions on PBS or NPR.
But Fox News is supposed to be the biased one in this equation??
-
Apparently Mr Gruber mispoke....
It's all part of the sham...the game.
Liberals in the media now are saying "well he apologized".
As if that makes everything ok.
Kind of like if you cheat on your wife and apologize then that's "end of story".
LOL....right.
Ok Gruber says they lied and now apologized...so when do we schedule a new vote on Obamacare?
Oh no...we live in a world where Gruber and the Leftist lie their asses off...admit they lied...and the legislation stays in place.
So looking to the future....why not lie your ass off....if all you gotta do after you get your way via lying...is apologize.
Isn't it a great world we live in?
That's the way the Left operates.
Lie to get your way.
Dont have enough votes to win elections?....No problem just import illegals.
If you dont win elections....just have unelected Judges overturn the People' Will.
-
Ends justify the means, right. Lying? Ok. Ignoring the constitution? Acceptable. Right?
-
Take it away, Charles (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-the-gruber-confession/2014/11/13/474595bc-6b6b-11e4-9fb4-a622dae742a2_story.html) 8)
It’s not exactly the Ems Dispatch (the diplomatic cable Bismarck doctored to provoke the 1870 Franco-Prussian War). But what the just-resurfaced Gruber Confession lacks in world-historical consequence, it makes up for in world-class cynicism. This October 2013 video shows MIT Professor Jonathan Gruber, a principal architect of Obamacare, admitting that, in order to get it passed, the law was made deliberately obscure and deceptive. It constitutes the ultimate vindication of the charge that Obamacare was sold on a pack of lies.
“Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” said Gruber. “Basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to getting the thing to pass.” This was no open-mic gaffe. It was a clear, indeed enthusiastic, admission to an academic conference of the mendacity underlying Obamacare.
First, Gruber said, the bill’s authors manipulated the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which issues gold-standard cost estimates of any legislative proposal: “This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes.” Why? Because “if CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies.” And yet, the president himself openly insisted that the individual mandate — what you must pay the government if you fail to buy health insurance — was not a tax.
Worse was the pretense that Obamacare wouldn’t cost anyone anything. On the contrary, it’s a win-win, insisted President Obama, promising that the “typical family” would save $2,500 on premiums every year.
Skeptics like me pointed out the obvious: You can’t subsidize 30 million uninsured without someone paying something. Indeed, Gruber admits, Obamacare was a huge transfer of wealth — which had to be hidden from the American people, because “if you had a law which .?.?. made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed.”
Remember: The whole premise of Obamacare was that it would help the needy, but if you were not in need, if you liked what you had, you would be left alone. Which is why Obama kept repeating — PolitiFact counted 31 times — that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.”
But of course you couldn’t, as millions discovered when they were kicked off their plans last year. Millions more were further shocked when they discovered major hikes in their premiums and deductibles. It was their wealth that was being redistributed.
As NBC News and others reported last year, the administration knew this all along. But White House political hands overrode those wary about the president’s phony promise. In fact, Obama knew the falsity of his claim as far back as February 2010, when, at a meeting with congressional leaders, he agreed that millions would lose their plans.
Now, it’s not unconstitutional to lie. Nor are laws enacted by means of deliberate deception thereby rendered invalid. But it is helpful for citizens to know the cynicism with which the massive federalization of their health care was crafted.
It gets even worse, thanks again to Gruber. Last week, the Supreme Court agreed to hear a case claiming that the administration is violating its own health-care law, which clearly specifies that subsidies can be given only to insurance purchased on “exchanges established by the state.” Just 13 states have set up such exchanges. Yet the administration is giving tax credits to plans bought on the federal exchange — serving 37 states — despite what the law says.
If the plaintiffs prevail, the subsidy system collapses and, with it, Obamacare itself. Which is why the administration is frantically arguing that “exchanges established by the state” is merely sloppy drafting, a kind of legislative typo. And that the intent all along was to subsidize all plans on all exchanges.
Re-enter Professor Gruber. On a separate video in a different speech, he explains what Obamacare intended: “If you’re a state and you don’t set up an exchange, that means your citizens don’t get their tax credits.” The legislative idea was to coerce states into setting up their own exchanges by otherwise denying their citizens subsidies.
This may have been a stupid idea, but it was no slip. And it’s the law, as written, as enacted and as intended. It can be changed by Congress only, not by the executive. Which is precisely what the plaintiffs are saying. Q.E.D.
It’s refreshing that “the most transparent administration in history,” as this administration fancies itself, should finally display candor about its signature act of social change. Inadvertently, of course. But now we know what lay behind Obama’s smooth reassurances — the arrogance of an academic liberalism, so perfectly embodied in the Gruber Confession, that rules in the name of a citizenry it mocks, disdains and deliberately, contemptuously deceives.
-----------------------------------------------
2000+ pages of insidious detail, and we're supposed to believe the subsidy issue was simply sloppy writing?? Perhaps the bill should have been read first, before passing it, to see what was in it
-
This highly cynical and elitist sort of attitude is one of the things I feel hurt with the Democrats about....
But...
Earlier in his career didn't Mr. Gruber work on the establishment of the Romneycare plan in Massachusetts?
This might be a bipartisan contempt of the common man.
-
Yes, he did.....it's one of the things that sunk Romney, in his Presidential runs. Though I could agree, that "the political establishment", while frequently campaigning as the supposed common man, generally all have multimillion dollar portfolios....and likely an underlying "pffft" to have to mingle with them, in order to get their vote.
So much the better to simply lie, and/or get your chief executive to ignore the will of the people with the stroke of his/her pen