DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Xavier_Onassis on February 14, 2015, 03:08:15 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej_SRJNz9ls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej_SRJNz9ls)
I was unaware that Chris Kyle was shooting looters from atop the Superdome.
I was unaware that there were ANY snipers there.
A good comment on this propagandistic film.
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You have an image of Kyle shooting looters?? a Video?? Him saying so?? Or is this just more trash to take out?
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Apparently, he said he did this. I doubt that it was made up.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/)
This came from an interview with Kyle, published in a biography of him,and reviewed in the Washington Post.
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Link please.....HIM actually. Not someone saying he said that
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It was, again, from an interview by a biographer.
Most of the things that happen on this planet, contrary to what you might think, and not recorded and photographed made public.
Sometimes you just have to accept that things have happened that are not available online.
For example, if I read that Ted Cruz took a shit at 8:30 this morning and used seven squares of Charmin, I do not automatically demand that a photo be produced along with DNA of Ted's poop, you know, to prove that it was not someone else's poop.
I did not hear of Chris Kyle until the film was made. I have outgrown war stories and prefer to read other types of literature. I did, however, follow the Katrina storm fairly thoroughly, and heard of no snipers on the Superdome. That would surely have been an event that would have been reported that I doubt it would have been missed. And the story does not claim that Chris Kyle actually was atop the Superdome, sniping at people stealing stereos, groceries and whatever: it claims that Chris Kyle said that was something he did. I deem it highly likely that no one was sniping at anyone from atop the Superdome, but a biographer rarely makes up stuff that he heard the subject say. It would take a rather sick person to snipe at fellow Americans in those circumstances, after all, and anyone claiming to have done it falsely would have to be a biy deranged to brag about such a made-event.
The rest of the video I posted was more interesting.
I do not doubt, as I have said, that it is a well-made and impressive film. That does not make it true or make anyone in it a hero, however. One of the most impressive propaganda films ever made was Reifenstahl's Triumph of the Will .
http://www.dr1.com/forums/members/xavier_onassis.html (http://www.dr1.com/forums/members/xavier_onassis.html) All it needs is color and better sound to me a perfect piece of propaganda for today.
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So, its someone saying he said that. Thats kind of what I thought. You know, one of your students told me that you sleep in pink panties. So I guess it must be true.
Please deposit your trash in the appropriate bin before leaving the saloon
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The trash in this forum is most often yours, sirs.
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Your ongoing erroneous opinion is duly noted.
How 'bout this....rather than take this 3rd party as gospel, where's the articles showcasing our military SEALS stationed on The Superdome, shooting our citizens? Where are these bodies? In essence, where's the evidence to these alledged acts by Kyle??
Ball in your court
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Kyle alspo claimed that he slugged Jesse Ventura, which Ventura said did not happen. This is in Wikipedia.
In interviews with the Opie and Anthony Show and Bill O'Reilly in January 2012, Kyle claimed to have punched former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura at a bar in Coronado, California, in 2006 during a wake for Mike Monsoor, a U.S. Navy SEAL and Medal of Honor recipient killed in Iraq. The story parallels an incident in his book which does not mention Ventura by name, and claims a character named "Scruff Face" said that the SEALs "deserved to lose a few guys."[30] Ventura filed a lawsuit against Kyle for defamation in January 2012.[31][32] After Kyle was killed the following year Ventura continued the lawsuit against Kyle's estate.[33] The court found that Kyle had falsely depicted Ventura in his book and in July 2014 the court awarded Ventura $1.8 million in damages.[34][35] Kyle's widow is appealing the verdict on behalf of Kyle's estate.[36]
I would imagine that getting a jury to award $1.8 million would need a pretty convincing argument.
I think I would question that such a libel was worth $1.8 million, but I was not at the trial. So it seems likely that Kyle like to make shit up. I think that an expert marksman could as easily as not be full of shit. Marksmanship and bullshitting are not mutually exclusive traits. Perhaps the tale about the Superdome sniper was in Kyle's book.
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Or perhaps not. I'll just wait for some evidence to support the accusation. Until that time, this is sits perfectly with the resume' of your error riddled accusations
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I found this interesting as well:
On February 2, 2013, Kyle and a companion, Chad Littlefield, were shot and killed at the Rough Creek Ranch-Lodge-Resort shooting range in Erath County, Texas.[37] The suspected shooter is a 25-year-old U.S. Marine Corps veteran,[38] Eddie Ray Routh, who Kyle and Littlefield had reportedly taken to the gun range in an effort to help him with his personal problems.
Routh had been in and out of mental hospitals for at least two years and had been diagnosed with schizophrenia.[39] His family said he also suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder from his time in the military.[40][41] After the killings he went to his sister's house in Midlothian and told her what he'd done. His sister, Laura Blevins, called 911 saying: “They went out to a shooting range... Like, he’s all crazy. He’s [expletive] psychotic.”[42] Local police captured Routh after a short freeway chase, which ended when Routh, who had left the scene of the shootings in Kyle's Ford F-350 truck, crashed into a police cruiser in Lancaster, Texas.[43]
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If I wanted to help such a person as Routh, I think the very LAST place I would take him would be a gun range.
That is not a wise decision. Even given someone high on mushrooms the keys to your Ferrari would be wiser.
What do you think? Would YOU take a mental case like this to a gun range? Do crazy people really belong on gun ranges? I am thinking, no.
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I have not accused anyone of anything., other than accusing you of being ignorant, snide and stupid.
I thought that the TYT review of the movie was an interesting perspective.
My only real opinion is that there was no sniper atop the Superdome. And it is a good thing that there was not.
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Of course you accused him of it.....thus the title of the thread. I realize the knee jerk effort to smear our military heros. Thank God we've had so many before Kyle sacrafice their very lives for you to try and degrade theirs. Bravo
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Yeah, riiiiight. If kyle had not killed all those Ay-rabs, no doubt I'd be a hostage of Al Qaeda.
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Professor Hyperbole strikes again. You need a cape and a big red letter H on the front of your t-short, with how boldly you use it
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NOT ONE 0f all the wars fought since I was ten years old would have deprived me of a single right.
Even a victory by Hitler would probably not have resulted in a Nazi conquest of this country.
The main cause of all the militarism has been to sell weapons and to corner markets to buy and sell stuff.
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NOT ONE 0f all the wars fought since I was ten years old would have deprived me of a single right.
Because we won. Many lives lost in the sacrifice of maintaining those rights
Even a victory by Hitler would probably not have resulted in a Nazi conquest of this country.
Your guess is duly noted....as erroneously likely as it would have been. We could have very easily been conquered, had Germany not been stopped.
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I doubt that. We had a rather large navy and the Germans would have had to cross it. Had the Germans defeated the British, their next campaign would have been to conquer the USSR, and that would have been a monumental task.
But in any event, there is NO WAY that the lives of Americans living in this country would have lost their rights to speak freely if Chris Kyle had been a really poor shot or never existed at all. Wars this country has fought since WWII have had two purposes: to endure markets where US companies could buy and sell stuff, and a rationale for manufacturing tons and tons of weapons and armaments.
Most of those who attacked on 9-11 were Saudis, and not a one of them is in Guantanamo. They all died in the attacks. Not one of them was from Iraq, nor was trained by Iraq nor armed of financed by the Iraqi government.
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I doubt that.
Well, good thing we didn't lose and have to find out
But in any event, there is NO WAY that the lives of Americans living in this country would have lost their rights to speak freely if Chris Kyle had been a really poor shot or never existed at all.
It's not about 1 person, Dr Deflection, and never was. It's about the organization he's a part of....the military, that bled and died for you to maintain the right to spew your garbage. You should be thankful, not hostile.
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The statement that I always hear is how I, personally, should be grateful because, for example 52,000 military died in Vietnam, and a lot of other places so I could speak freely.
Hence, I mentioned myself. I did not say I was not sorry they had died, or recognized that they had made a great sacrifice.
Only that there was no way that anyone in Iraq, Panama, Grenada, Lebanon, Afghanistan, etc. could possibly have actually deprived me of my freedom of speech.
And furthermore, what the Hell good is my freedom of speech if I do not use it?
I do not think that it is up to you to tell me what attitude I must take, either.
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Not talking about a specific battle, or even just 1 war. It's who they, folks like Kyle are, and what they do, most importantly, what they represent.....which is defend this country. They bleed and die, to protect our way of life, our rights, our freedoms.
So you can poo poo all you want, about specific wars all you want. That's not at issue....only a convenient deflection. Your right to spew your form of garbage is directly as a result of the effort and sacrifices our military has made, both in past, present, and future, so don't even try to portray your egregious lack of gratitude as yet another ridiculous accusation that you shouldn't have the right to spew. Of course you have that right to the freedom of spew. Enjoy it, and sleep horribly tonight knowing its folks, just like Chris Kyle that has defended that right. Many of them, with their lives
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The one thing this country is always in is some sort of war. We have bases of some sort in 153 countries, and there are barely 200 on the planet.
And if you yammer about Chris Kyle, then you are referring to a specific war. The one in Iraq that should never have been fought, so that Juniorbush could be a "War President" like his old man. Those who died there basically died for no good reason. Just as those who died in Vietnam.
Chris Kyle has done NOTHING to protect my freedom of speech. I think his major accomplishment will turn out to be to live a life that made a great vehicle for Clint Eastwood to make a kickass film. There are hundreds of people that work on any movie: cameramen, gaffers, caterers, Winnebago repairmen, and thousands who have jobs in movie theaters, selling tickets, peddling popcorn, pouring Pepsis and Cokes, scraping gum off the floor. They can thank Chris Kyle.
You are free to believer this infantile propagandistic crapola if you wish, but never have and I still don't.
Chris Kyle did not die for me. He did not die for you. He did not die for the folks behind that tree. He died because he thought it was a terrific idea to take a demented man to a shooting range.
Turns out, it wasn't.
Perhaps he should get a Darwin Award for that.
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..And one more time for those who have a pathological inability to grasp the point being made.....it's not about 1 person, or even 1 war, its about what they represent. What they represent is DIRECTLY related to protecting your freedom of spew
You may now return to your regularly scheduled bile fest
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I bet that with all the jobs in production, box office receipts and the CD sales, streaming video sales and such, American Sniper, the movie could produce as many jobs and as much income as the Keystone Pipeline, which is probably doomed for the time being.
As for your point, you have none. NOT ONE THING Chris Kyle did had any impact on my free speech. The entire Iraq War had no effect, either, nor did the Vietnam War, or all the wars in Panama, Lebanon and Grenada.
Soldiers join the military for the same basic reasons burgerflippers flip burgers, woodchuckers chuck wood and firefighters fight fires: to earn a living, first and foremost. The idea that they can retire with a sweet pension before they are forty and get educational help also figures in there. Patriotism ranks rather far down the list for most of them.
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Patriotism ranks rather far down the list for most of them.
No.
Even when it is a job more than adventure, it is a tough job with significant risk.
Patriotism is important in the rank and file.
They don't get high pay for shooting, nobody gets paid well enough to get shot.
After the 9-11 attacks there was a surge in enlistments, not because of any rise in pay.
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FLASH! There are Very few jobs that actually pay well. Even fewer if you have no college degree. Perhaps some people enlist because of patriotism: it is certainly a reason. But I do not think that it is the primary reason in most of the enlistees' minds at the moment they enlist. The incentives, ie a permanent job (as opposed to a temp job), the benefits, such as college tuition, VHA loans to buy a home and a government pension and training at being good at something are all surely more important reasons. Of course, there are always some who want to enlist to Kick Muslim Ass (today's version of Kick Enemy Ass), which is not exactly patriotism, either is going to surge when the country is attacked. The ads for the Navy and Air Force that I have seen on TV are really well-made as well.
I certainly am not opposed to people enlisting in the military. But it is a real bore hearing again and again from people who think you should just shut up about the constant, unnecessary wars or cheer them on, and then tell you that you wouldn't be able to complain if you lived anywhere but in the Ewe Ess Hay. Again, surely some of the people that Chris Kyle sniped deserved to die for being despicable. But not a one of them had on their mind the intent of preventing me, or any other American from speaking freely here in this country.
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Your grasp of being able to speak towards what incentivises men & women to join our military is only rivaled by your notion of what incentivises law abiding gun owners to own firearms. As you, you have no apparent fricken clue
AND NO ONE IS TELLING ANYONE TO SHUT UP. Being criticized for woefully ignorant and/or erroneous stances/POV's, doesn't equate to saying they should shut up about them. I realize that's a tactic of the left....attempt to criticise/condemn acts of rhetoric (all the invalid accusations of racist rhetoric, homphobic accusations, bigotry, etc.,) are all largely an effort to shut down opposing POV's. Problem is that while that may be a tactic of the left, that doesn't equate to why folks like myself highlight such egregious irrational claims/accusations. We do it to educate those, who may not know, or are trying to understand current situations and/or historical precedents
Point being, Plane is dead on, as it relates to those incentives that are predominant in the military, especially being he has 1st had experience, that you do not. And one last time, its now about 1 man, Kyle defending your right of free spewing. It's what he represents, that has defended it, with their blood and their lives, over the last 200+ years
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Yeah, sure. You have to know that this is nonsense. Really.
No one fighting in Iraq was defending free speech in the US. No one.
I think the last of my relatives to be threatened by invasion was a fifth great grandfather named Demarius Brady. He lived in Troup County, GA and heard that the Yankees were coming to free the prisoners at Andersonville. The legend was that he heard that the Union general was a Mason, and so he hung his Masonic apron over the gate of Long Cane Plantation and it was spared getting burned down. But he did lose some swine. So far as I know, his speech was not threatened.
Other ancestors fought in a Michigan company of the Union Army and on a riverboat in the Missouri River.
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Yeah, sure. You have to know that this is nonsense. Really.
No one fighting in Iraq was defending free speech in the US. No one.
And what part of it's not about 1 person, or even 1 war, its about what they represent. What they represent is DIRECTLY related to protecting your freedom of spew. So since you keep insisting on making this about 1 war, and 1 person, despite the ongoing indication that it isn't, you're done here
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But not a one of them had on their mind the intent of preventing me, or any other American from speaking freely here in this country.
The war that is presently going on is not unnecessary, it is the same war that has been going on with little interruption since The Kobar towers and USS Cole bombing.
If you are smart you will not antagonize the IS by speaking too freely about the foibles of Islam or any imperfection of Mohammed , IS feels that their fatwa crosses borders.
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They will come after "Christians" before they bother me.
There are no instances at all of any American in the US being threatened by any Muslims for speaking freely.
My current doctor is an Iranian. I imagine he is a Muslim. But he is a cheerful and helpful fellow. My previous doctor was Dr Kamerman, who was about five months older than me and who died. He was Jewish and his wife's family were friends of Antonio Noriega, the ex-president of Panama.
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My current doctor is an Iranian. I imagine he is a Muslim.
Perhaps he is , perhaps not, this is only pertinent if he is sympathetic to IS.
If he has been in the US a long time as a successful doctor , this seems unlikely.
There are estimates that only 10% of Muslims are prone to extremism, Other estimates are even less. I would bet on the lower numbers.
But in the absence of reliable surveys these are just guesses.
Supposing only 3% are liable to join actively , we are still talking about more persons than inhabit Germany. Persons spread across the globe and mixed in with less guilty and innocent persons.
It isn't likely that we could wipe the pool of potential recruits out without causing their replacement among the survivors.
But , we could make an impression on them that leaves them thinking the idea is a bad one.
And -Or , allow them to congregate on a bit of flypaper.
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I doubt that even 1% of all Muslims are in any way active advocates of the various fanatical terrorist groups.
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What you think & doubt vs current reality are chasms apart. As another poster, in another forum recently referenced....."I never understood how the world stood by while Hitler was able to murder millions. Now I get it."
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Hitler Schmitler. Hitler has NOTHING to do with it.
There are about ONE BILLION Muslims on the Earth. A billion is a thousand million. Ten percent would be ONE HUNDRED MILLION. One percent would be TEN MILLION. There are nowhere near TEN MILLION Muslims fighting with Isis, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood. I do not think there are even a million fighters and sympathizers put together.
If you cannot understand math, then seriously, you don't know shit.
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Not every German fought for Hitler either. The % Plane, and so many others have referenced isn't who is actively taking up arms against us. It's in reference to everyone who's sympathtic/supportive to the cause of jihad, in the name of Allah, which includes the radical islamic terrorsts. It also includes those thousands who danced up and down with the twin towers came down. It includes the thousands that cheer when Israel is attacked. It includes those thousands in the street chanting death to America, as Obama's favorite "success story", Yemen gets torn down by the ones who ACTIVELY are taking up arms.
Not all of them are actively taking up arms, but there are millions who support the tens of thousands that have. given the left's inability to do simple math, as noted in budget, tax, and debt talk, its no wonder that its not grasped here either
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People can dance in the streets all they want, but that does no one any harm.
If support is simply cheering, then it is essentially meaningless. If they donate money, that is some help, but cheering in the streets is meaningless. The Occupy Movement had thousands cheering in the streets.
Yemen was no one's success story, please. It has been a basket case since the two Yemens united. Before that it was two basket cases, Yemen and Aden, then Yemen and South Yemen. The basic problem in Yemen is unemployment. Then there is the problem that most Yemeni men are addicted to chewing khat. This makes them less dangerous, but also less predictable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0PgJ4fqpIM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0PgJ4fqpIM)
As for the budget, the Republican'ts have never come close since Eisenhower. Lowering taxes to raise revenue has never worked and never will work. Neither party wants to deal with economic problems seriously. Juniorbush dropped a TRILLION dollars on the Iraq War and we heard very few Republican'ts saying "Can we afford this?" This country does not need eleven aircraft carrier groups, it does not need the F-135 or the Osprey. The shipyards and the aircraft industry wants to build them, and that is why they get built. One of these damned fighter jets could subsidize ten small colleges for a year, or one for ten years.
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People can dance in the streets all they want, but that does no one any harm.
Dr Deflection strikes again. I DIDN'T SAY IT DID ANYONE ANY HARM NOW DID I?
That said, ITS NOT JUST SUPPORTIVE OF THE PRACTICE OF THE MILITANT ISLAMISTS, ITS A MASSIVE POOL FOR OTHERS TO BECOME MORE "ACTIVE" IN THE ART OF TERRORIST ACTS, such as BEHEADINGS & BURNING PEOPLE ALIVE. In a pool of MILLIONS, thousands upon thousands more could join the already more active tens of thousands of radical Islamists, currently taking up arms
A 3rd grader can grasp this logic. How is that a supposed higher educated professor can not??
Yemen was no one's success story, please.
The President himself claimed it was a specific feather in his foreign policy hat. Good to see even you, of all people, can see his utter failure in both policy & rhetoric
And will have to leave the utter nonsense of claiming that lowered taxes didn't increase revenues, when they did precisely that under Kennedy, under Reagain, and again under Bush II. You may now return to replacing head firmly in sand
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That is a myth, and you have zero proof of this. It is just some crap that you read on some rightwing website or heard on some rightwing radio program. So is the crap about corporate taxes being higher here than in other countries, since corporations rarely pay the actual rates, because of loopholes and deductions.
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(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/mikepatton/files/2012/10/Federal-Revenue-Tax-Brackets5.png)
Facts continue to not be your best friend, Professor. Suffice to say, reducing taxes has a stimulative effect on economic activity which has historically lead to an increase in government receipts.