DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Xavier_Onassis on September 14, 2016, 12:51:17 PM
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Any way you look at it, not standing for the national anthem is a peaceful and nonviolent act. But uppity ni&&ers still piss off guys like CU4.
LEONARD PITTS, JR.
lpitts@miamiherald.com
It keeps getting bigger.
One might have expected last month’s protest by San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, his refusal to stand for the national anthem, to have blown over by now. Instead, it has caught fire. Sunday, members of the Miami Dolphins, New England Patriots and Kansas City Chiefs all staged protests of their own. This was in addition to earlier protests by soccer star Megan Rapinoe and members of the Denver Broncos and Seattle Seahawks. There have even been reports of the phenomenon spreading to high school and college games.
PITTS
All of this in support of Kaepernick, who said, “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.” Apparently, he’s struck a nerve.
For the record, yes, I do stand when the anthem is played. But I don’t do it for America. America breaks my heart on a daily basis.
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Fans speak out on Colin Kaepernick's refusal to stand during the national anthem
Sports fans were interviewed regarding 49er quarterback Colin Kaepernick's refusal to stand during the national anthem at an NFL preseason game. The interviews were done at Sports Station in Modesto, Calif., on Saturday, Aug. 27, 2016.
Ron Agostini & Marijke Rowland The Modesto Bee
So, I stand for what America is supposed to be, what America could be if it ever took seriously its founding principles, including that “self-evident” truth about equality. But America has yet to do that, and Kaepernick is hardly the first person to notice.
On the last night of his life, Martin Luther King said: “All we say to America is, be true to what you said on paper.”
In a poem, Langston Hughes complained: “America never was America to me.”
Kaepernick is not even the first athlete to snub the rituals of American patriotism. “I cannot stand and sing the anthem,” a baseball player once wrote. “I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world.” The man’s name was Jackie Robinson.
Point being, I have no quarrel with Kaepernick.
Others, do. The internet is awash in videos of his burning jersey. Wayne Newton said on Fox that if Kaepernick doesn’t like it here, “Get the hell out.” Various memes juxtapose his image with those of wounded and dead military personnel. And Tucker Carlson and Rush Limbaugh have suggested Kaepernick has no right to protest racism because he’s wealthy — as if wealth provides some magic protection from getting pulled over for DWB.
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Arian Foster talks about why he's kneeling during National Anthem
Miami Dolphins running back Arian Foster talks to the media on Mon., Sept. 12, 2016 about why he decided to kneel down during the National Anthem in Sunday's season-opening game against the Seattle Seahawks.
Matias J. Ocner Miami Herald
It does not. Indeed, the very fact that Kaepernick feels estranged from a country that has afforded him material success should induce thoughtful observers to wonder how that could be. Instead, we get lectures from blowhards on how rich and ungrateful Kaepernick is.
The thing is, people like them get indignant when anger over racial oppression expresses itself in street violence. Now we see they also get indignant when it expresses itself peacefully.
Which suggests their complaint is less about the form of protest than the fact of protest. Apparently, those who live with injustice are expected to quietly grin and bear it so the likes of Carlson and Limbaugh are not troubled by uncomfortable truths.
That’s not going to happen.
Ultimately, American protest is not just a right, nor even an obligation. No, it is an act of faith, an expression of the belief that a country founded on that great, self-evident truth can do — and be — better. That’s the faith that has undergirded African-American struggle for centuries, the thing that has allowed us to support a country that would not support us, defend a country that would not defend us, love a country that did not love us.
And it is the reason people affronted by the form — and fact — of Kaepernick’s protest have framed the issue exactly wrong. This is not about whether Kaepernick will stand up for America.
No, this is about whether America will finally stand up for him.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article101688282.html#storylink=cpy
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Any way you look at it, Colin can protest however any damn way he wants. He however gets no immunity bubble from highlighting how much of an ungrateful hypocritical ignorant moron he's being in his "nonviolent protest", and appropriately criticized for it
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How is he ungrateful? NFL pros have lives shortened by at least a decade for no better reason than as attractants to beer and car commercials.
He has stated his objectives pretty clearly, and the protest has caught on.
Most of the viewers of NFL are White, so the players are reaching the target audience. And it actually inconveniences no one. It gives the commentators something more meaningful to talk about.
And of course, it pisses dogwhistle racists off, an added bonus.
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How is he ungrateful?
Millions have died to provide him the right to protest. That's how
And of course, it pisses dogwhistle racists off, an added bonus
No, he pisses off those who ARE grateful for the freedoms that so many died for, that we have, that a majority of the rest of the globe, doesn't
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I am not buying that anyone who has fought in any war for the US after WWII did so to protect freedom of speech, and specifically the right to not stand when they play the national anthem at football games.
They may have fought for dozens of other reasons, but no enemy since Nazi Germany posed any threat whatever to the freedoms of Americans in the US.
If we have the right, then who the Hell are you to tell people that they should not use it?
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No one's mandating that you have to accept the truth. It just is
And one more time for the ignorant impaired.....Colin has every right to exercise his ignorant, ungrateful, hypocritical "nonviolent protest". Where do you get off claiming folks like myself claim he shouldn't be allowed??
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Why put quotes around the word "nonviolent"? Are you questioning the possibility that he was sitting violently?
What is the deal with saying, "people DIED for you right to protest... and that is why you should not protest!" What sort of idiotic twisting of words is that?
Ask anyone serving in the military and you will never hear " so NFL players can sit down when they play the National Anthem to protest police shooting unarmed Black men".
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Why put quotes around the word "nonviolent"? Are you questioning the possibility that he was sitting violently?
Not at all
What is the deal with saying, "people DIED for you right to protest... and that is why you should not protest!" What sort of idiotic twisting of words is that?
One more time for the ignorant impaired......NO ONE IS CLAIMING SOMEONE CAN'T PROTEST HOWEVER THE HELL THEY WANT. IF YOUR PROTEST IS BASED ON IGNORANCE & HYPOCRISY, YOU DON'T GET A PASS ON BEING CRITICIZED & CONDEMNED IN RESPONSE. THAT DOESN'T EQUATE INTO "YOU SHOULD NOT PROTEST" UNDERSTAND YET??
Ask anyone serving in the military and you will never hear " so NFL players can sit down when they play the National Anthem to protest police shooting unarmed Black men".
Ask anyone serving in the military, and you will never hear anyone refer to any one specifically, be it an NFL player or NRA member. Its merely their service and SACRIFICES, THAT ALLOW EVERYONE TO PROTEST HOWEVER THEY WANT
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Most of the viewers of NFL are White, so the players are reaching the target audience.
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And of course, it pisses dogwhistle racists off, an added bonus.
I see a cognitive dissonance there.
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So they have a RIGHT to protest, but every time they do so, they have to hear morons telling them that they should be ashamed of themselves for protesting and should feel guilty for all the deaths they caused of people defending their right to protest. Lay guilt on anyone who dares to exercise their right.
We are talking about some jocks sitting or kneeling at a stupid for profit extravaganza of beer and car commercials into which perhaps ¼ of the time involves a ball game. Do Americans watch NFL games so they can feel patriotic? How many of them are standing reverently in front of their TVs with their hands on their chests as compared with those who remain seated in their Barcaloungers with a can of Bud in their hand?
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So they have a RIGHT to protest, but every time they do so, they have to hear morons telling them that they should be ashamed of themselves for protesting and should feel guilty for all the deaths they caused of people defending their right to protest.
BINGO! Rationalizations aside, you're FINALLY starting to grasp how the 1st amendment works. In other words, it DOESN'T work where one person can say, piss off and offend anyone they want, in "protest", but gets some immunity from being pissed off or offended in return. It works where ANYONE can say or do ANYTHING IN PROTEST, so long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. There is no right not to be offended or made to feel guilty. That goes BOTH ways
Doesn't matter who we're talking about either, from some U.S. Senator spewing bile to some Football jock personifying ignorance. They all have the same right in exercising their 1st amendment, and neither have a right not to be offended in response to those exercising their 1st amendment right in criticising or condemnation
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If you are pissed off by someone simply because the refuse to stand up for the National Anthem, then there is something seriously wrong with you.
If you actually believe for a second that the motive for anyone going off to fight in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Panama, Granada or Vietnam did it to protect the First Amendment, then you are nucking futz. No one in any of those places gave a damn about or even was aware of the First Amendment.
Shaming Kaepernick for sitting down is just stupid. Anyone who says it is not stupid, is also stupid.
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If you are pissed off by someone simply because the refuse to stand up for the National Anthem, then there is something seriously wrong with you.
And if you don't stand up for the National Anthem, then there is something seriously wrong with you
See how that works?
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If you are pissed off by someone simply because the refuse to stand up for the National Anthem, then there is something seriously wrong with you.
If you actually believe for a second that the motive for anyone going off to fight in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Panama, Granada or Vietnam did it to protect the First Amendment, then you are nucking futz. No one in any of those places gave a damn about or even was aware of the First Amendment.
Shaming Kaepernick for sitting down is just stupid. Anyone who says it is not stupid, is also stupid.
Aaaaand aren't you glad to have the right to say so?
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Uhm
By saying million died for him to protest then what he did is a positive and in no way is he should be portrayed as ungrateful.
I do not recall a single arguement stating what he did was incorrect. The main issue was treatment of blacks in America. Nobody said he was wrong. He even gain growing support
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Uhm
By saying million died for him to protest then what he did is a positive and in no way is he should be portrayed as ungrateful.
I wholeheartedly disagree.....and such is the power of the 1st amendment
I do not recall a single arguement stating what he did was incorrect.
Actually, it has...multiple times. There are far more respectful ways to protest something that perceive as some racial injustice. He chose a very blatant dispectful means...thus an incorrect manner in which to portray his protest. The pigs on his socks didn't help, either
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................................to protest then what he did is a positive......................
I would not go that far.
Americans are pretty tolerant , but also quite fond of the Nation and its symbols.
What exactly is he protesting and what would be the intended result?
If the big guy you are insulting does not hit you , that is good on the big guy , not you.
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i`ll say it again my 1st response when colin did was did he get stopped by the police. he did a few weeks earlier. so to me that was a tipping point that made him think about how much this country done for him. he found it lacking. note he was not the 1st but the most visible and the fact more are following his example means something needs to be addressed. what he`s protesting was in the news for quite awhile but the response was behave . not a good answer
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Kimba.....I feel like we're just repeating ourselves here....whatever he did or didn't do, as it relates to getting pulled over, didn't result in a shooting, or even him being "roughed up", so that in itself is a hard pill to swallow for "tipping him". But more to the point, the national anthem is literally a sacred song to this country. We sing it to honor those who fought and have defended our country. You can hate this country, and think its all manner of racist, but there are ways to express that without degrading those that the National Anthem honors
In other words, what he did was incorrect, if he wanted to perform some protest, given he's in no way oppressed, in any form or fashion. It's wholly ungrateful to the millions who have sacrificed their lives in defense of this country, and its way of life that he has been so rewarded in
So, he has every right to protest however he wants. We all have every right to protest how he decided to protest. That's how the 1st amendment works
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We sing it to honor those who fought and have defended our country.
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We sing it (if indeed we do sing it) because the sheeple around us are singing it, at least at NFL games.We only sing the first verse, because there are some pro-slavery bits in the following verses.
Perhaps it is sung out of patriotism at VFW meetings. But at football games? Get effing serious!
It is the IDEAL place for a Black American to convey the idea to White Americans that this country is arresting, detaining and occasionally killing Black American fellow citizens because of the racism of the police. Most of the viewers of NFL games are White guys. When they see some cop has pulled over yet another Black driver, it may give at least some of them something to think about.
Just sitting down and not standing is as non violent as a protest can get. Wearing socks is merely humorous. But it sets off sirs & CU4's dogwhistle racism.
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Your opinion on the "why" we sing the national anthem is duly noted....and discarded. Colin's actions are still grossly inappropriate & hypocritical. And its MY 1st amendment right to say such
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You have a right to be a dogwhistle racist and a buffoon, it is true.
It is your good fortune that you have me to remind you of this.
Why should an NFL game be an occasion for patriotism?
I can understand burials of veterans and Veterans' Day events, but venues for wall to wall beer commercials?
Do you stand up for the National Anthem when you watch NFL games on TV sirs?
Does exhibiting patriotism while hearing the anthem require an audience for you to respond by rising from your Barca Lounger?
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And you have a right to call anyone you dislike any name you want, regardless of how wrong you are. That is indeed your right as well
An NFL game, like any sports related activity, is a PRIVATE enterprise. If they all choose to make it an occasion to remind us of the sacrafices this country has had to endure to enjoy the sports function, who are you to say they can't, or even shouldn't??
I stand for EVERY event that I GO TO, in which the announcer asks that everyone please stand for the singing of our National Anthem. It's the very least I can do to honor those that defend this country, and those that died doing so
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And if you don't stand up for the National Anthem, then there is something seriously wrong with you
See how that works?
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The next time you watch an NFL game, make sure you stand attentively with your hand over your patriotic little heart as the sacred song is sung. If you get up to pee, get another beer, or just sit there in your Barcalounger, there is something seriously wrong with you by your own definition.
Why do you need to be surrounded by football fans you do not know to be a patriot and exhibit your love of country? Should you not love your country from the comfort of home?
Why do you need an announcer to tell you to be patriotic? You sound like you are in Junior High.
If you are sitting down when they play the Sacred Rhetorical Question that is our National Anthem, you are joining Kaepernick in his protest.
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The next time I ATTEND an NFL game, (or ANY event, where the announcer has asked us to stand and pay or respects in singing the National Anthem) you can bet I'll be standing with everyone else who recognizes those that defend this country, and those that died doing so. It's a sign of solidarity.
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sir you said did not get roughed up which means he complied which is what was expected of him but believe it was the tipping point for him. i understand you believe the anthem was the wrong way to protest but i think this was something that would still happen by him or somebody else. the national anthem simply cannot be excluded . remember I did say he was not the first just the most noticable. I do think because he was always a unlikable player so the spotlight shines more on him.
the issue here is excessive abuse from police and still that issue does not get that much attention. the news does cover white teens getting shot by the police but it just does not register
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That can be perceived as an "issue", one that doesn't appear to be bolsted by facts, simply pushed by social media and camera phones, making it appear its some "out of control" activity. I would wager just the opposite, in which police now are far less likely to engage with subjects, for fear of being sued.....or worse, shot
But that's really all besides the point. No one is claiming, or even implying Colin shouldn't be allowed to protest, what he perceives is some racial injustice. Doesn't make his protest based on any facts, merely his perception. And more importantly, doesn't protect him from those exercising the very same 1st amendment right in proclaiming how ignorant and ungrateful his form of protest is
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I said before i got no problem him getting fired for this but stating he did cause a reaction which other are following his example.
true police are under the microscope now but they always are . I assumed police would behaved after ferguson. But it seemed to have no effect at all. It now a wait and see if it works now. Im now curious if those body cams helped. I predict an increase in crime if the officers are second guess on arrests
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Just to be clear i expect people who protest getting some kind of blowback for thier efferts. Your rights to protest does not mean your protected.
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Just to be clear i expect people who protest getting some kind of blowback for thier efferts. Your rights to protest does not mean your protected.
Which has been my point all along. However to leftists, he shouldn't be "shamed" apparently...the ever famous shield of political correctness shines its ugly sheen once again
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The next time I ATTEND an NFL game, (or ANY event, where the announcer has asked us to stand and pay or respects in singing the National Anthem) you can bet I'll be standing with everyone else who recognizes those that defend this country, and those that died doing so. It's a sign of solidarity.
So you have no sense of solidarity when watching at home?
A fine patriot you are!
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I am pretty sure that police abuse actually used to be WORSE, but now that so many people have a camera they have toned it down a bit. In the old days, they would just shoot the guy and then put a gun in his hand and report it as an assault on a cop.
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Of course not....I'm at home. Solidarity of ONE? oy vey ::) The attendence of a live event, is where the National Anthem is used, and the solidarity of all those around sharing in the moment is what makes those events special.
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How many people would you have to have surrounding you for you to stand and be patriotic, sirs?
It takes ten people to make a minyan in Judaism.
If you are Orthodox or Ultra Orthodox, they all must be men
How many does it take for sirs to get off his butt and honor the flag?
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Number of people is irrelevant. (or in your attempted case, a deflection). It's the location & situation that makes the event relevant
In other words, I'm patriotic ALL the time. I however don't stand everywhere I am. I do stand and honor those who serve, defend, and sacrifice, at events, when we're asked to
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I do stand and honor those who serve, defend, and sacrifice, at events, when we're asked to
You are one obedient little dipstick.
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You're entitled to your twisted interpretation. I consider it honoring those who serve, defend, and have sacrificed themselves for your right to be a socialist ass
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How many people would you have to have surrounding you for you to stand and be patriotic, sirs?
It takes ten people to make a minyan in Judaism.
If you are Orthodox or Ultra Orthodox, they all must be men
How many does it take for sirs to get off his butt and honor the flag?
That seems like about the right number, in smaller groups appreaciations can be more detailed and verbal.
I agree that individuals have a right as American citizens to refuse participation in ceremonies and songs that honor our country.
I don't agree with Kaepernick that he is doing something constructive.
White people are perfectly aware that there is a danger in facing a policeman, especially men counting men only the police kill about twice as many white ones as black ones.
This does not lead to white people sitting through the anthem to protest the treatment , it would seem silly , the flag is not the representation of the police or the government , it is the representation of the people .
What Kaepernick is doing is reinforcing the idea that the default citizen of the USA is white and that he is an outsider, this is not progressive of him.
Fredrick Douglas gave a very famous Fourth of July speech in which he complained of being treated as less than second class and how little his freedom was respected , he was demanding inclusion. Kaepernick is almost doing the opposite, as if there had been no real progress since the 1850s when Fredrick Douglas made his complaint.
Since then there have been Black Cowboys and Buffalo Soldiers spearheading the settlement of the West , civil rights struggles that shaped the careers of "Black" Jack Pershing and the Army. The Tuskegee Airmen racked up one of the best records of any combat fighter group after having to pretty much fight their way into the training.
There is a huge number of Black people who are Veterans , Active duty and are police at this time .
I would like to say that the days in which White people owned the citizenship of the US are ending , and I would .
But there seems to be a little move in the other direction , to firm up the wall between being Black and being one of us.
Kaepernick is laying brick.
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I have no idea what the EFFECTIVENESS of his protest will be.
He has stated what his conditions are to stop sitting down when the play the national anthem.
I read it and I understand what he thinks he can accomplish.
Most of his critics have not read what he has said and therefore their comments are without a serious basis.
As I said, it is an ideal way to protest, as it is as nonviolent as can be, while it gets noticed by the people who should notice it.
It has not affected sirs, but sirs is a dogwhistle racist and a dummy.
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And whoever claimed it should affect me in any way?? I'm merely exercising my 1st amendment right in highlighting how ignorant and ungrateful his form of prtoest is, along with your ongoing record of erroenous proclamations
bravo