DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Henny on March 06, 2007, 08:16:04 PM
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HA! I guess the title of this post can be taken a couple of different ways! :D
But seriously, Sirs, knowing that you are a long-time sufferer of migraine headaches, help me out here.
Over the past several months, I've had headaches that have gotten worse, and hurt worse than any headaches I've ever had before. I hesitate to call them migraines because they don't totally incapacitate me, I can resolve them with a hefty dose of ibuprofen usually within an hour (although repeat doses are often needed throughout the day), but they DO leave me moaning and groaning and holding my head in my hands for a while, and some are bad enough to wake me up out of a dead sleep (as the one I have now did just a while ago - middle of the night here). I can't pinpoint one spot that hurts worse than the others, but they seem to start in the back and sides of my head and work their way forward.
I looked online for more information, but nothing seemed to fit the symptoms exactly. I hoped that you might have some insight before I go make my first visit to a foreign doctor in a foreign land. :-\
Now the weird part... stranger still, my husband has been complaining of horrible headaches too, for about the same period of time. ???
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Oh gads, you caught me at a bad time Miss Henny. I'm doing my final billing #'s, and then I'm off on a couple of errands, before reaching home. I promise to make this my 1st response when I get home. My apologies for not having the time to respond to this right now.
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Sounds environmental or dietary to me.
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It's the Israeli's fault.
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HA! I guess the title of this post can be taken a couple of different ways! :D
D'OH. I resemble that implication :P
But seriously, Sirs, knowing that you are a long-time sufferer of migraine headaches, help me out here. Over the past several months, I've had headaches that have gotten worse, and hurt worse than any headaches I've ever had before. I hesitate to call them migraines because they don't totally incapacitate me, I can resolve them with a hefty dose of ibuprofen usually within an hour (although repeat doses are often needed throughout the day), but they DO leave me moaning and groaning and holding my head in my hands for a while, and some are bad enough to wake me up out of a dead sleep (as the one I have now did just a while ago - middle of the night here). I can't pinpoint one spot that hurts worse than the others, but they seem to start in the back and sides of my head and work their way forward.
Ususally the location and the "type" of pain can help identify what kind of a headache. Not always, but ususally. Starting in the back and sides of the head, and moving up ususally is related to tension --> tension headaches. Did these headaches start right after your return to the saloon and dialoguing with the likes of me and the Professor? ;) Seriously though, that sounds close to what you describe, BUT those types of headaches ususally aren't as severe as you also seem to be describing. If it helps, it definately doesn't resemble a migraine in any way. Have you made any changes in your life in those last few months? It could be physical (which would include diatary), mental, social (which would include enviroment), or a combination of those. Simply making some relatively significant changes in your daily routine can store the stress and lead to tension headaches, IF that's the type of headache you're having. One other lesser thought, but still plausible is being exposed to some form of noxious stimuli. Perhaps a new cleaning product you or a neighbor are using. Some form of construction or painting going on nearby. Such fumes can lead to the type of severity you're referring to. One of my worst migraines was after I spent too long in the bathroom cleaning it. Those are the thoughts that come to my head, without doing any googling. I hope it helped.
Now the weird part... stranger still, my husband has been complaining of horrible headaches too, for about the same period of time. ???
Ahhhhhhhh, similar exposure to something. Hmmmm, seriously check out the area, and see if there's any new painting/building/landscaping/gardening/cleaning going on either in your home, or nearby, that began about the time the headaches started. And the fact it's happening to your husband as well, should negate that it's something wrong with you
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It's the Israeli's fault.
Actually it's Bush's fault ;D
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Henny,
I had migraines for a several years, and it doesn't sound like migraines to me.
It does sound like years ago, when I used to wake up often with very achey head, and then the gas company found we had a small gas leak. Thank God we also had a very drafty house!
Or, it could be from sleep apnea.
Sirs, I didn't know you suffered from migraines. You have my complete sympathy. (Have you tried any preventative meds? Amytriptilene is what has worked for me.)
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Sirs, I didn't know you suffered from migraines. You have my complete sympathy. (Have you tried any preventative meds? Amytriptilene is what has worked for me.)
Thanks Lanya. I've had them since I was 12 years old. Thankfully medication advancements have produced my miracle in Imitrex, and it's newer cousin Maxalt. Before those medications, I was literally incapacitated for the entire day. The pounding/piercing/throbbing pain over 1 side of the head and/or behind the eye, completely unimaginable except for folks like ourselves, who've lived it. Now, if I feel a "fuzzy" coming on, or what I like to refer to as a migrainette, I'll take my cocktail of 1 maxalt under the tongue, followed by 2 maximum strength excedrin, washed down with a caffeine soda. Usually (though not always) it will defuse a migraine before it blows up into one
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Fumes... Sirs and Lanya, you may have hit the nail on the head with the mention of fumes (and in particular, Lanya's mention of a gas leak). And it never occurred to me to consider it. I'd thought about new and strange pollens, changes in season, etc., but these headaches have been on and off for over 6 months now.
One rather bizarre thing that I've had to adjust to living in Jordan is that there is no natural gas infrastructure (although it is promised by 2010). There are a few different ways that people heat their water - a system where you flip a switch and it's heated by diesel fuel (I have no idea how this works exactly), solar power, or the most popular... one of those propane tanks that Americans use for their gas barbecues. We use the propane tank method. It's attached directly to a small water heater in our utility room. Getting to the point, when the tank is reheating, there is a very strong smell of gas. Nevermind that the door to the utility room is shut and the window is open, you smell it anyway.
Anyway, I never even considered it as a potential source of the problem. I guess I'll have to look into alternatives.
Thanks!
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We medical practitioners do try to help when we can. I'm glad our thoughts may have identified the source of your headaches, and I hope you can get it confirmed, 1 way or the other :)
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We use the propane tank method. It's attached directly to a small water heater in our utility room. Getting to the point, when the tank is reheating, there is a very strong smell of gas. Nevermind that the door to the utility room is shut and the window is open, you smell it anyway.
I once gave up my eyebrows and half my hair to a situation like that , be cautious.
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Natural gas and propane are by nature nearly odorless. Somewhere in a Texas oil town a school had a gas leak and blew tha ebuilding and a whole bunch of kids to smithereens in the 1920's, and after that, gas companies add a nasty smelling odorant, a mercaptan, I think, to the gas so leaks can be detected. If you are smelling gas, you are exposed to it, and this could well be your problem.
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Thanks Lanya. I've had them since I was 12 years old. Thankfully medication advancements have produced my miracle in Imitrex, and it's newer cousin Maxalt. Before those medications, I was literally incapacitated for the entire day.
Wow Sirs. I guess it just proves that everyone is more alike than you'd think.
I have migraines as well and could almost quote your story. The first medicine the doctors ever gave me was Migrazone (Midrin) and it never really worked at all. I had nearly one every other day one month when I was introduced to Imitrex (sumatriptan) and it has worked for me ever since. I also take a preventative medication and I sometimes go a month without having any migraines.
When I do have a migraine I can't look at a computer screen or any bright light. I always hate the after effects too. Even with Imitrex it occasionally feels like someone has taken a baseball bat to my shoulders and neck the next day. Occasionally I still get dizzy or light-headed too.
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I have migraines as well and could almost quote your story. The first medicine the doctors ever gave me was Migrazone (Midrin) and it never really worked at all. I had nearly one every other day one month when I was introduced to Imitrex (sumatriptan) and it has worked for me ever since. I also take a preventative medication and I sometimes go a month without having any migraines.
My wife had migraines, usually associated with her period. She used Imitrex to control them.
Then she noticed something.
Whenever her period was about to start, she would crave red meat, especially steaks. Most of the time, she would ignore those cravings. However, recently she has given in to those cravings, eating BBQ or steak when she craved them just before her period. And she has not had a migraine in the 6 months or so she has been doing that.
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Whenever her period was about to start, she would crave red meat, especially steaks. Most of the time, she would ignore those cravings. However, recently she has given in to those cravings, eating BBQ or steak when she craved them just before her period. And she has not had a migraine in the 6 months or so she has been doing that.
Well Ami you have touched on something that most Migraine sufferers are aware of in 1 way or another. I did a fair amount of research into headaches, and in partcular migraines. So Miss Henny wasn't too far off on how I both tend to cause headaches around here, but know some about them, as well.
Every migraine sufferer has "trigger factors". They can be things like eating lots of junk food, being exposed to loud sounds, bright lights, obnoxious fumes, poor sleeping, too much sleeping, stress, etc. It behoves the migraine sufferer to attempt to identify their own personal trigger factors, and then by design avoid them. I can almost guarantee giving myself a migraine if I was to sleep really late some morning, but jump out of bed very quickly to rush to someplace I believe I can't be late to, and perhaps eat donught or 2, as I run out the door.
Interestingly, a few years ago, I put myself on a very rigid diet, ended up losing nearly 60pounds, and thru-out that time, I might have had 3-4 migraines over that 2year period. So food and eating habits, along with sleep pattersn are huge on my trigger factor list. Alas I'm no longer on that very rigid diet, and the migraines have returned in frequency, but thanks again to the Imitrex/maxalt, as Js has referenced as well, those migraines are no longer the severely intense, completely incapacitating monster, it used to be
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I can almost guarantee giving myself a migraine if I was to sleep really late some morning, but jump out of bed very quickly to rush to someplace I believe I can't be late to, and perhaps eat donught or 2, as I run out the door.
That's me as well. In fact, just sleeping late at all will sometimes guarantee me a migraine. I really haven't found many food triggers in and of themselves and I used to keep a detailed journal per doctor's orders. If I skip a meal or eat late (or just at odd times of the day) then I will be more likely to have a migraine. I don't necessarily have to eat fatty foods though, but I can't eat a single celery stick and call it a meal either.
Whenever her period was about to start, she would crave red meat, especially steaks. Most of the time, she would ignore those cravings. However, recently she has given in to those cravings, eating BBQ or steak when she craved them just before her period. And she has not had a migraine in the 6 months or so she has been doing that.
I defer to Sirs' expertise on health matters, but I have read that tyramine, which is a monoamine from the amino acid tyrosine is very common in red meats, chocolate, beer, cheese, and soy sauce (and other soy products). These also just happen to be trigger foods for a lot of people with migraines (but not everyone).
Interestingly, they also happen to be potentially fatal if eaten by people who are on MAOI medication. So there are some doctors, neurosurgeons, and all those specialists who deal with migraines who have theories about a link between tyramine and migraines.
I have no idea how much validity it holds. As I said, I defer to people with a lot more knowledge than I have. There are so many things that seem to play a role and honestly medical science doesn't really understand migraines very well.
Some interesting aspects (just curiosity on my part) and maybe Sirs can help answer some of these, that would be too cool.
- Why do migraines seem to hit people in their teenage years and not in adolescence?
- What is with the after-effects of migraines? (i.e. the haziness, the pain in shoulders, neck, back)
- Are migraines similar to seizures? For example, seizures also have the after-effects of haziness and pain, and many of the prophylaxis treatment medication for migraines are also anti-convulsant medications.
- Is there any permanent damage from migraines, do we know?
Whatever the answers I empathize with anyone who has the damned things. They really are an excrutiating experience. It is really difficult for other people to understand the pain because they associate it with just a "bad headache" when it is much, much worse.
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That's me as well. In fact, just sleeping late at all will sometimes guarantee me a migraine. I really haven't found many food triggers in and of themselves and I used to keep a detailed journal per doctor's orders. If I skip a meal or eat late (or just at odd times of the day) then I will be more likely to have a migraine. I don't necessarily have to eat fatty foods though, but I can't eat a single celery stick and call it a meal either.
Precisely. It doesn't have to be "bad foods" or sugar filled foods, it could be no foods. It's just specific to each migraine sufferer. Sometimes I can, and this will sound funny, sleep "too hard". Where I slept so soundly, and so deep, that when I do wake up, there it is. Bad eating habits are my worst culprit, but too much or too hard of sleep triggers them as well. I did get a nasty migraine once visiting my Dad's church service. small church, poor ventilation, and a very vocal and "passionate" congregation. In other words, every other word was "halleluja!!". and when the music was playing, it was loud, very loud, and that drum.....oh that drum. Needless to say it was the last time I visited his church, as "perfectly intentioned" as it was ;)
Some interesting aspects (just curiosity on my part) and maybe Sirs can help answer some of these, that would be too cool.
- Why do migraines seem to hit people in their teenage years and not in adolescence?
Good question, though no real good answer. Strangely my migraines began nearly immediately following my mom & dad's divorce. And I don't think it was a coincidence. Something in the emotional centers of my brain became rewired IMHO, and the migraines have been there since.
- What is with the after-effects of migraines? (i.e. the haziness, the pain in shoulders, neck, back)
This varies, and in some cases it varies with age. When I was young, and when the migraine was gone, I almost had what you could call a euphoric period. A burst of energy and calmness. I think it was again largely emotional vs physical, since I was so glad to be relieved of the migraine. As I've gotten older, I definately have noted a residual "haziness", though not necessarily any shoulder or back pain. I have neck pain, but that's due to my degenerative neck condition. (which could actually be contributory to the migraines) But back to the question, migraines cause massive pain, we all know, and the amount of physical stress and anguish when one is having one, makes me conclude how I'd be surprised if someone didn't have any residual ache & haziness.
- Are migraines similar to seizures? For example, seizures also have the after-effects of haziness and pain, and many of the prophylaxis treatment medication for migraines are also anti-convulsant medications.
No. In no way, shape or form, are they. Migraines are circulatory in nature, both in how they're triggered, and in their way of causing the pain they do. Seizures are "electrical", literally a short circuiting of the brain's nervous system. The after effects you refer to I would deduce are similar due to the amount of physical stress & anguish each causes.
- Is there any permanent damage from migraines, do we know?
None that I'm ware of. In fact, they're supposed to fade out after folks reach middle age. Supposed to being the general trend. I'd still suggest refraining from one's trigger factors, perhaps bright lights, or loud music, or apple fritters for breakfast every morning. But I'n not aware of any documented history of permanent damage, be it nervous system or circulatory system, caused in long term migraine sufferers
Whatever the answers I empathize with anyone who has the damned things. They really are an excrutiating experience. It is really difficult for other people to understand the pain because they associate it with just a "bad headache" when it is much, much worse.
100% concur
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The only related health problem I'm aware of for migraine sufferers is a slightly elevated risk of stroke. That's not a given, by any means.
For years I didn't know I had migraines. I thought they were sinus headaches, and another name for them was "stomach flu." It certainly did not just involve the head, if you take my meaning.
My mother had them, I had them, my younger son has had a couple.
Magnesium helped, a little. The herb feverfew helped, a little. Coffee helps a lot. Singing 'tra la, tra la' and throwing rocks into the river might have helped if I believed it hard enough! Imitrex was a godsend. Getting properly diagnosed was, too. There are 2 or 3 pressure points that sometimes help nausea or head pain, but not both.
I can't help thinking it's partly vaso-vagal in nature.
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This varies, and in some cases it varies with age. When I was young, and when the migraine was gone, I almost had what you could call a euphoric period. A burst of energy and calmness. I think it was again largely emotional vs physical, since I was so glad to be relieved of the migraine.
Although I don't suffer from migraines, I do have another problem - tree nut allergy. It is the most painful experience I can imagine having (something that as a women I compare on the scale of pain with being in labor). If I eat just the tiniest piece of cashew or pistachio, I'm in big trouble. Living in the Middle East has put me at higher risk as nuts are in so much of their foods. In the first 3 months living here, on 3 different occasions I inadvertently ate a small bit of the suspect nuts and... well, I carry an epinephrine injection kit with me now and avoid eating out at local restaurants.
The point is, the epinephrine stops my throat from swelling shut, but does nothing for the gastro-intestinal symptoms which is really the worst part. When the pain has finally passed - or almost passed - hours later, I too have a "euphoric state" similar to what you've described. I think it is simply the relief after any severe pain, not necessarily related just to migraines.
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Is there any real connection between Migrane and creativity or talent?