DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: kimba1 on March 14, 2007, 04:16:49 AM

Title: question about pot
Post by: kimba1 on March 14, 2007, 04:16:49 AM
can it make a guy run around in his underwear acting all violent
i just saw it on eye to eye just now
i thought pot has a diferent effect
it scare a teenage girl off pot
kinda funny
you can tell i can`t sleep today
hopefully i`ll passout soon
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Plane on March 14, 2007, 04:44:32 AM
I have never tried it.


Perhaps soon after it becomes leagal I might ,but not till then.


A friend of mine was killed by a stupid pot dealer, and that put me off a bit.


Though te stupidity of th dealer mght have predated the pot , the law about  the pot was what brought them into conflict.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: _JS on March 14, 2007, 10:15:13 AM
The question itself is about Tetrahydrocannabinol, which is the chemical found in marijuana.

I think the correct scientific answer to your question kimba, would be: "maybe, but not likely."

Of course what the individual is wearing at the time is not related to the drug being consumed. A scenario like that would depend heavily on knowing information beforehand. For example:

Does the individual have any pre-existing physical or mental health conditions?
What other medications had the individual taken that day?
What other illicit (if any) drugs had the individual consumed recently?
What was the situation the individual was facing beforehand?
Was there alcohol consumed beforehand?
Does the individual have a history of violence?

Scientifically there are many reasons why someone can take any medication (legal or illegal) and have a peculiar reaction to it. When you see something like that on a television program, you may not be getting a complete picture.

Then again you might be, but you might be getting what is known as an atypical reaction. As our healthcare professionals can tell you much more than I, sometimes people fall into that < 1% of the population that just has a bizarre reaction to a medication.

Now, that doesn't mean I think anyone should go out and eat a pound of hash! In fact, quite the opposite. I'm just saying that it is often easy to mischaracterize the negative effects of medication by showing a single clip on television.

Luckily, medication and double-blind studies lend themselves well to scientific analysis.

Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Michael Tee on March 14, 2007, 10:52:49 AM
Speaking as (ahem!) something of a practical expert on the subject, although it has been many years since my last experience with either pot or hash, I would be very surprised if the violent reaction you described was experienced by more than a small fraction of one per cent of all pot and hashish smokers.  Probably psychos to start with.  I've never experienced, and have never seen others experience, anything other than a delicious sense of humour, excited by the most mundane things, immense appreciation and understanding of visual experiences, music and personal interactions, and a great feeling of wellbeing and affection for all sentient beings, particularly whatever sentient being or beings you happen to be with at the moment.  Plus enormous attention to details that you would never notice in a million years and some gross distortions of the normal sense of time.  Mix a little opium into the hashish and you will be as close to understanding the space-time continuum as Einstein.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: _JS on March 14, 2007, 11:28:06 AM
Quote
Probably psychos to start with.

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that people with mental illness are more likely to be violent?
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Michael Tee on March 14, 2007, 11:35:52 AM
<<Just to clarify, are you suggesting that people with mental illness are more likely to be violent?>>

Of course not, I was using "psycho" as shorthand for a pathologically violent individual,  normally reined in by social inhibitions, who I thought would probably be the kind of person that kimba describes as violent on pot.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Plane on March 14, 2007, 11:38:27 AM
Quote
Probably psychos to start with.

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that people with mental illness are more likely to be violent?

Would it be more correct to say , more likely to be inappropriately violent?
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: _JS on March 14, 2007, 11:48:22 AM
Thanks for the clarification Tee.

Quote
Would it be more correct to say , more likely to be inappropriately violent?

I'm not entirely certain what you're asking Plane, apologies.

Most research I've read has shown that individuals with diagnosed mental illnesses are less likely to be violent than the general population and that includes those who are not on a drug regimen (or have strayed from it). A lot of the stigma associated with mental illness is mostly myth.

The nature of violence is rather interesting in and of itself.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on March 14, 2007, 03:59:09 PM
As a rule, this is not at all a typical reaction. People tend to become peaceful and mellow and hungry to munch on food.

It intensifies the senses: colors seem brighter, music more melodic, smells and other sensations more intense.

It does not tend to cause people to get naked and become violent.

Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: kimba1 on March 14, 2007, 04:24:40 PM
it reminds me all those anti-pot psa
which all these kids talk about how pot reacts to them with symtoms that`s caused by every drug but pot.
the only one thats real is the one about it making people lazy that they can`t work.
but everything does that .
so pretty much there is no accurate anti-pot psa for the moment.
I`d like too see one about how foul a pot smokers breathes smells
seriously they do have the foulest breathe around
I think it`s called sh*t breathe

Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: MissusDe on March 14, 2007, 04:39:14 PM
The type of reaction that kimba described is more associated with smoking weed laced with PCP - the weed alone would typically have a more mellowing effect.  The addition of PCP is documented to frequently induce violent, often psychotic behavior.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Lanya on March 14, 2007, 04:48:44 PM
Missus,
I was just going to say that.  I had a patient many many years ago who exhibited that kind of behavior after having some visitors, and then he coded.  Was revived.   Very scary.  He told someone the next day that his friends brought him a joint laced with angel dust.  Why we didn't smell it I don't know. 
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on March 14, 2007, 05:16:46 PM
seriously they do have the foulest breathe around
I think it`s called sh*t breathe.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strangely, I never noticed this during my scientific investigations in Mexico back before the statute of limitations ran out. I could be that as a rule, potheads hang out with other potheads and tend to do a variety of things other than smelling one another's breath.

Eating brownies, potato chips, guacamole and such was a typical ancillary oral activity.

How effective would bad breath be as a deterrent? Has whisky breath ruined Chivas Regal's market? Has tobacco breath demolished Philip Morris?

Pot is recreational, like beer and booze. People don't like to work when drunk, either. I would never recommend daily use of pot as a means of improving one's career, but a weekend think occasionally would be a lot better than binge drinking, if not for the illegality of pot.

Our society has decided that if you feel bad, ot's okay to take something to feel better. But if you feel just okay, then taking something to feel terriffic must be immoral.

I guess the reason that ginseng extract (which is legal and effective) is not illegal is mostly because most ginseng products are so weak as to be bogus. Also, quite often apparently ginseng-free.



 
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: kimba1 on March 14, 2007, 06:15:48 PM
I use ginseng
don`t feel athing
but I truely hate the taste of it
caffeine is awhole other matter
I`m a tweaking with coffee
it`s total BS that`s it`s not a drug
it`s so addictive that you can`t go cold turkey with it
or face painful headaches
weening is the only way
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: domer on March 14, 2007, 09:46:47 PM
Lore from the 60's/70's: Half-a-million kids at Woodstock on pot and not a notable instance of violence.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: BT on March 14, 2007, 10:50:53 PM
gimme shelter
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Lanya on March 14, 2007, 10:55:21 PM
Domer---
One of my sons told me about an episode of South Park (I think).   One of the  characters is urging the people who attended Woodstock to actually DO something.

Slowly I turned....and let him hear what I remembered about the years previous to that. 
Russians are going to bomb us
Nukes in Cuba
Space race, accellerated math
JFK assassination
Touring bomb shelters with my Brownie troop
Duck and cover drills
Civil rights marches, demonstrations, little kids getting sprayed by huge fire hoses and hurt
RFK assassination, MLK assassination
Churches bombed, Freedom Riders killed
RIots, riots
Peace marches/SNCC/ Weathermen/ etc
Friends getting drafted

I told him that a 3 day party in the mud listening to music was not a whole lot after all that.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: The_Professor on March 14, 2007, 11:27:54 PM
next thing i will hear is that pot should be legal.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Plane on March 15, 2007, 06:41:02 AM
next thing i will hear is that pot should be legal.


I think that makeing pot leagal, would solve more prolems than it would cause .
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: kimba1 on March 15, 2007, 01:51:33 PM
the problem with legalizing pot is way too many potheads are supporting it
when i say potheads I mean people who not only think pot should be legal,but it`s 100% safe.
they will not acknowledge it should not be used will driving or operating heavy machinery.
or that some people have bad reactions to it.
pretty much both sides has been giving fairly in accurate data on the item
the pot side is a bit more truer though.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: The_Professor on March 15, 2007, 03:24:26 PM
next thing i will hear is that pot should be legal.


I think that makeing pot leagal, would solve more prolems than it would cause .

Surely you jest....
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Amianthus on March 15, 2007, 03:27:40 PM
Surely you jest....

Well, it wasn't really causing problems when it was legal 100 years ago. What has changed?
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: kimba1 on March 15, 2007, 03:32:22 PM
william randolph hearst had alot to do with that
had nothing to do with drugs strangely enough.
hemp was the issue if i remember right
the drug part was hook to make it illegal
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Universe Prince on March 15, 2007, 03:59:00 PM


I think that makeing pot leagal, would solve more prolems than it would cause .


Surely you jest....


Caffeine, nicotine and alchohol are legal. Drugs that alter brain chemistry (anti-depressants) can be, with a prescription from a doctor, bought at local pharmacies all over the country. Why should marijuana be completely illegal? What harm would come from making marijuana legal?
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: The_Professor on March 15, 2007, 04:20:00 PM
Well, let's see. We have spent decades and literally billions fighting the smoking epidemic, cigarette smoking that is. And now, you want to encourage smoking yet again, except with a different substance? I would guess, and it is only a guess, that if this were to be made legal, cigarette smoking would increase as well.

Plus, any substance that alters your judgment and not for the better, needs to be treated with kid gloves.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: kimba1 on March 15, 2007, 04:31:45 PM
ah
smoking is another matter altogether
tobaco smoke is so toxic you need to inhale it on and off for twenty years for it to effect your health
second hand is so toxic you need to breathe it continually for 40 years to get ill.
note not a single study say smoking will definately harm people.
I smoke a cigarette every 3 months
am i playing russian roulette?
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Amianthus on March 15, 2007, 04:45:40 PM
And now, you want to encourage smoking yet again, except with a different substance?

First of all, making it legal is not "encouraging" it.

Second, there are other ways of ingesting marijuana without smoking it.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Plane on March 15, 2007, 05:11:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Plane on Today at 05:41:02 AM
Quote from: The_Professor on March 14, 2007, 10:27:54 PM
next thing i will hear is that pot should be legal.




Well, let's see. We have spent decades and literally billions fighting the smoking epidemic, cigarette smoking that is. And now, you want to encourage smoking yet again, except with a different substance? I would guess, and it is only a guess, that if this were to be made legal, cigarette smoking would increase as well.

Plus, any substance that alters your judgment and not for the better, needs to be treated with kid gloves.


You predicted well when you predicted the next thing that you would hear didn't you?
I undertand the problems wth intoxiants and I wouldn't ever want to encourage recreational intoxication in any form.
But I have lost a freind to the eforcement of the law , as have thousands of other people .

If the leagalisation of Marijuanna caused problems that were on balence less than the problems of haveing it illeagal then naturally we should choose the lessor evil.

If the leagalisation of Marijuanna caused problems that were exactly equal to the problems of haveing it illeagal then I would rather err on the side of trusting the people and preserveing their liberty.

Only if the problems of haveing it illeagal are less than the problems of it being leagal is there any excuse for the Government to be involved .

Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Universe Prince on March 15, 2007, 05:32:59 PM

Well, let's see. We have spent decades and literally billions fighting the smoking epidemic, cigarette smoking that is. And now, you want to encourage smoking yet again, except with a different substance? I would guess, and it is only a guess, that if this were to be made legal, cigarette smoking would increase as well.

Plus, any substance that alters your judgment and not for the better, needs to be treated with kid gloves.


The smoking epidemic? Uh, anyway, I did not say I wanted to encourage anything. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that you're correct and making marijuana legal would result in more cigarette smoking. So what? It is not as if anyone goes into smoking without knowledge that it can be bad for one's health.

Just for the record, I've never used marijuana. However, outside of the government drug war propaganda, I have not heard much in the way of reports that marijuana is necessarily detrimental to one's judgment. So what makes you think marijuana alters one's judgment for the worse?
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: kimba1 on March 15, 2007, 06:15:22 PM
which is worst ?
alcohol or pot?

In terms of impaired judgement under the influense
I really have no idea
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: The_Professor on March 15, 2007, 06:27:19 PM

Well, let's see. We have spent decades and literally billions fighting the smoking epidemic, cigarette smoking that is. And now, you want to encourage smoking yet again, except with a different substance? I would guess, and it is only a guess, that if this were to be made legal, cigarette smoking would increase as well.

Plus, any substance that alters your judgment and not for the better, needs to be treated with kid gloves.


The smoking epidemic? Uh, anyway, I did not say I wanted to encourage anything. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that you're correct and making marijuana legal would result in more cigarette smoking. So what? It is not as if anyone goes into smoking without knowledge that it can be bad for one's health.

Just for the record, I've never used marijuana. However, outside of the government drug war propaganda, I have not heard much in the way of reports that marijuana is necessarily detrimental to one's judgment. So what makes you think marijuana alters one's judgment for the worse?

hehe..I have and so I have see nthe effects. UP, spoken like a true Libertarian. :-)

I understand your argument that, if you know that smoking too much can cause lung cancer and yet you still do it, thern you deserve what you get. I concur, to a point. However, if smoking a joint or driving a car under the influence of too much booze causes someone else harm, then that is where I would draw the line.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: The_Professor on March 15, 2007, 06:29:08 PM
which is worst ?
alcohol or pot?

In terms of impaired judgement under the influense
I really have no idea

Does it matter? If you want to drink yourself silly or smoke several joints in the middle of the woods, so be it. If you do it and it negatively impacts anyoine else, WHOA!
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: MissusDe on March 15, 2007, 07:19:20 PM
Domer---
One of my sons told me about an episode of South Park (I think).   One of the  characters is urging the people who attended Woodstock to actually DO something.

Slowly I turned....and let him hear what I remembered about the years previous to that. 
Russians are going to bomb us
Nukes in Cuba
Space race, accellerated math
JFK assassination
Touring bomb shelters with my Brownie troop
Duck and cover drills
Civil rights marches, demonstrations, little kids getting sprayed by huge fire hoses and hurt
RFK assassination, MLK assassination
Churches bombed, Freedom Riders killed
RIots, riots
Peace marches/SNCC/ Weathermen/ etc
Friends getting drafted

I told him that a 3 day party in the mud listening to music was not a whole lot after all that.


......We didn't start the fire.....
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Lanya on March 15, 2007, 07:38:49 PM
Sorry, I don't get it.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: MissusDe on March 15, 2007, 10:04:29 PM
I was reminded of Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire".  Here's a site where you can listen to the song along with a flash presentation that illustrates the entire song - you can click on the images and find out more about them. 

Under 'View This Title' choose either View in this window or View in new window.

http://www.ugoplayer.com/music/fire.html (http://www.ugoplayer.com/music/fire.html)
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Lanya on March 15, 2007, 10:29:13 PM
Now that I hear it, it's  kind of familiar, but I'd never heard the words before, I guess.  Thanks.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Universe Prince on March 15, 2007, 11:16:52 PM

UP, spoken like a true Libertarian.


Representin'!


I understand your argument that, if you know that smoking too much can cause lung cancer and yet you still do it, thern you deserve what you get. I concur, to a point. However, if smoking a joint or driving a car under the influence of too much booze causes someone else harm, then that is where I would draw the line.


Okay. We have laws against drunk driving, but we repealed Prohibition years ago. Why do we need a prohibition against marijuana?
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on March 16, 2007, 09:45:37 AM
I would guess, and it is only a guess, that if this were to be made legal, cigarette smoking would increase as well.

Plus, any substance that alters your judgment and not for the better, needs to be treated with kid gloves.
 
 
=========================================================================
I don't think that legalizing pot would in any way cause anyone to smoke more tobacco.

Nicotine gives a very mild high, and usually only with the first several puffs of the day. It also causes craving for more and more nicotine. The tar in the smoke builds up in the lungs and will often cause cancer and will always cause emphizema and bronchitis.

With marijuana, one reaches a stage of high that does not call for any more marijuana. Either you are high, or you are not. And breathing the smoke is intensely irritating and causes fits of coughing and wheezing, which is a good reason not to smoke anymore than the absolutely necessary.

Alcohol is a depressant, and causes malfunction of motor skills. The more one drinks, the more malfunctions it causes. You could say that the good thing about alcohol is that eventually, a prospective drunken driver will not be able to find the key, the keyholke, or possibly the car.

Marijuana causes changes in perception. Time and space are distorted. Sounds and light are distorted, particularly in the peripheral areas. One hears sounds that are not there, occasionally.

No one should drive while either drunk or high, (or under the influence of anything, including a cellphone) but the high driver can, with effort, concentrate and not run into things. The extremely drunken driver finds this a lot more difficult and could also pass out, or be overtaken by the desire to barf.

Marijuana use should be controlled and restricted. But the main reason people have problems with using it is being busted, failing drugs tests and the like. It is much easier to detect in tests, and by the smell than most other, nastier substances, such as opiates, cocaine, meth and Rx drugs.

Acute observer that I am, my views on marijuana were the result of watching people in the 1960's, and not in the US.

I think it should be decriminalized. People should be able to grow their own, and use it recreationally the way many people use beer.

The few lives that might be lost by abuse of pot could easily be made up for by banning casinos, which do far more damage to people than pot, if one wished to do this.

Perhaps the Indians could replace their casinos with marijuana clubs.
Title: Re: question about pot
Post by: Plane on March 17, 2007, 05:40:48 PM


  I am trying to imagine Sir Walter Raleigh bringing something other than tobacco back to England.


   If he had discovered Marijuanna and made it a fad all over Europe early in the Colonial era would history hve been the same ?

   Or would Europe have gotten the munchies and conquered even more?