DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: hnumpah on May 01, 2007, 05:42:41 PM
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(http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20070501/spo070430.gif)
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And the vast majority of the Iraqi people are thankful for us having taken out a brutal, murdering dictator. Thanks for the reminder, H
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And the vast majority of the Iraqi people are thankful for us having taken out a brutal, murdering dictator. Thanks for the reminder, H
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The same vast majority of Iraqis also agree that the present civil war is even worse than the situation under Saddam. Very few, if any, want the decades- long continuation of US troops in Iraq that Petraeus is man enough to mention, but that Juniorbush and Cheney won't.
The Mission was a fool's errand, poorly executed, and it still bears no sign of having been accomplished...unless you look at the balance sheet for Haliburton, Raytheon, Blackwater, and others who are making a killing on their contracts.
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And the vast majority of the Iraqi people are thankful for us having taken out a brutal, murdering dictator.
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The same vast majority of Iraqis also agree that the present civil war is even worse than the situation under Saddam.
Ironically, pretty much the same vast majority that cited that despite the hardship & supposed "civil war", it was worth it to get rid of Saddam
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<<And the vast majority of the Iraqi people are thankful for us having taken out a brutal, murdering dictator. Thanks for the reminder, H>>
They're delighted because their lives are so much better now than they were under Saddam. Who wouldn't thank America for such a dramatic improvement in their circumstances? And the proof of course is in the movement of refugees - - the millions who voted with their feet and showed conclusively how much better the . . . the . . . uh, wait a sec, I was thinking of Cuba for a minute. Cuba's where the movement of refugees proves something. In Iraq, it don't mean shit. No, of course not. Don't follow those refugees, folks, don't mean jack-shit. LIFE'S BETTER IN IRAQ BECAUSE SADDAM'S GONE. THE INVASION MADE THEIR LIVES BETTER, NOT WORSE. Get it?
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<<And the vast majority of the Iraqi people are thankful for us having taken out a brutal, murdering dictator. Thanks for the reminder, H>>
They're delighted because their lives are so much better now than they were under Saddam. Who wouldn't thank America for such a dramatic improvement in their circumstances? And the proof of course is in the movement of refugees - - the millions who voted with their feet and showed conclusively how much better the . . . the . . . uh, wait a sec, I was thinking of Cuba for a minute. Cuba's where the movement of refugees proves something. In Iraq, it don't mean shit. No, of course not. Don't follow those refugees, folks, don't mean jack-shit. LIFE'S BETTER IN IRAQ BECAUSE SADDAM'S GONE. THE INVASION MADE THEIR LIVES BETTER, NOT WORSE. Get it?
Does the movemnt of refugees mean nothing in Cuba?
There is a strong Majority of Cubans who hate Fidel Castro with a quakeing passionand can recount a list of crimes against him thousands long.
Fortunately for the perpetual revolution , most of this majority is outside of Cuba.
Saddam Hussein was indeed establishing order but the cost of this was a state of constant intenal war for thirty years , so I think there is a valid comparison to Cuba .
Soon after the US invasion the huge number of refugees expected just did not materialise , but once the Al Quieda also invaded and ranked up their operation the numberof dead began to pile up and the wise , just as in Cuba , began to leave.
Is there going to be a right of return for any of these people?
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<<And the vast majority of the Iraqi people are thankful for us having taken out a brutal, murdering dictator.>>
They're delighted because their lives are so much better now than they were under Saddam.
Yea, the taste of FREEDOM, is funny that way, though I wouldn't go near as far as to claim "so much better", since there are hordes of violent insurgents that wish the return of minority dictator rule, as well as another contingent, that of militant Islamic terrorists, who want to cause as much strife and innocent bloodshed as possible, so the likes of Tee can then point the finger at the U.S. for the deaths that the Terrorists are causing >:(
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<<And the vast majority of the Iraqi people are thankful for us having taken out a brutal, murdering dictator. Thanks for the reminder, H>>
They're delighted because their lives are so much better now than they were under Saddam. Who wouldn't thank America for such a dramatic improvement in their circumstances? And the proof of course is in the movement of refugees - - the millions who voted with their feet and showed conclusively how much better the . . . the . . . uh, wait a sec, I was thinking of Cuba for a minute. Cuba's where the movement of refugees proves something. In Iraq, it don't mean shit. No, of course not. Don't follow those refugees, folks, don't mean jack-shit. LIFE'S BETTER IN IRAQ BECAUSE SADDAM'S GONE. THE INVASION MADE THEIR LIVES BETTER, NOT WORSE. Get it?
Does the movemnt of refugees mean nothing in Cuba?
There is a strong Majority of Cubans who hate Fidel Castro with a quakeing passionand can recount a list of crimes against him thousands long.
Fortunately for the perpetual revolution , most of this majority is outside of Cuba.
Saddam Hussein was indeed establishing order but the cost of this was a state of constant intenal war for thirty years , so I think there is a valid comparison to Cuba .
Soon after the US invasion the huge number of refugees expected just did not materialise , but once the Al Quieda also invaded and ranked up their operation the numberof dead began to pile up and the wise , just as in Cuba , began to leave.
Is there going to be a right of return for any of these people?
Hopefully, Plane, they will all be returned.
But none will be permitted to return until corporate america has sectioned off the entire country, like a side of beef. Maybe they still got the old Batista maps.
Pointus interruptus. The people of Cuba, none of whom were communists, did not want Batista to sell the sections to American corporations, and they sanctioned the l4 man army of Fidel to topple him.
Even after it was all over, still Fidel had no interest in communism, and only turned there when America, outraged that their privatized imperialism was stiff-armed back on its butt, refused to help in any way. Beyond that,we sabotaged everything we could.
I would like to read a puttogether about the things we have done to ensure their failure as a political system--poisoned their crops, thuggerized imports and trade, etc. When one reads of just how much the Cubans have endured, not from Castro but from us here, one begins to view Cuba and Castro as much of the world does--with a sense of a powerful prevaling. One then senses the magnitude of Castro's resilience. Were I called to image a stamp, I'd put a slingshot in his hand.
We threw the book at him. He laughed, and the world laughed with him.
Now the resident Cubans will greet the returning neoBatistites?
Just who will own what? (I'd ask Jebbie.)
I'll bet Blackwater already has an impending contract to provide an entire police force to move into immediate place.
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<<Does the movemnt of refugees mean nothing in Cuba?>>
Oh, I wouldn't say that. The movement of people out of Cuba and into the U.S.A. is living proof that people living in a poor country will try to get into a rich country. It's the same phenomenon as the movement of people out of Central America and Mexico into the U.S. It's the same phenomenon as the movement of people out of China into the U.S.
Funny, huh, it's always: poor country to rich country; never, rich country to poor country. Cuba's the best example of that, because Cuba's the only poor country whose illegals are greeted with open arm and allowed to stay. So there's a bit of, shall we say, extra incentive, for Cuban illegals who want to feather their own nests.
Oh, but there IS one exception to the rule: from oil-rich Iraq to oil-poor Jordan and Syria. From a country that was rich and prosperous to countries that aren't. This is ONE migration that can't be explained away by the poor land to rich land imperative.
Strange though, how folks who swear that the Cuban migration proves that life is hell in Cuba won't admit that the Iraqi migration has any similar connotation for Iraq. Life under Saddam, emigration rate "x"; life after Saddam, emigration rate 10000 times x, but hey, the Iraqis LOVE their life without Saddam and the facts be damned if they say otherwise.
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<< . . . so the likes of Tee can then point the finger at the U.S. for the deaths that the Terrorists are causing >>
moi? point the finger at the U.S.? accuse the U.S. of causing deaths? I am shocked that such allegations can be made in this forum. Shocked, I tell you.
I merely pointed out that all the murder and torture of the evil dictator Saddam do not seem to have created even a fraction of the misery now afflicting the Iraqi people, thanks to the high-minded generosity of their benificent Uncle Sam.
I only meant to show how very unlikely it is that any Iraqis are, as sirs claims them to be, grateful to their American invaders. Unless of course they are the kind of Iraqis who love suffering, torture and death. Those guys have a lot to thank Uncle for.
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<< . . . so the likes of Tee can then point the finger at the U.S. for the deaths that the Terrorists are causing >>
moi? point the finger at the U.S.? accuse the U.S. of causing deaths?....I only meant to show how very unlikely it is that any Iraqis are, as sirs claims them to be, grateful to their American invaders.
Actually, as I've already demonstrated previously, you don't have to take my word for it, the Iraqis themselves have been polled indicating so. Many, which is pretty much the majority are also remaining hopeful we don't bug out and withdrawl prematurely before their own leadership is ready to deal with internal & external security, leading to sure open ended civil war, and an enviroment just ripe for the likes of AlQeada to take root, like they had in Afghanistan
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<<Actually, as I've already demonstrated previously, you don't have to take my word for it, the Iraqis themselves have been polled indicating so. >>
They polled a sample taken from those Iraqis who are unaware of the violence.
<< . . . leading to sure open ended civil war, and an enviroment just ripe for the likes of AlQeada to take root, like they had in Afghanistan>>
Wow, sure glad nothing like THAT has happened.
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They polled a sample taken from those Iraqis who are unaware of the violence.
Where did they find thousands of Iraqis in Iraq that are "unaware of the violence" taking place in Iraq?
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<<And the vast majority of the Iraqi people are thankful for us having taken out a brutal, murdering dictator. Thanks for the reminder, H>>
They're delighted because their lives are so much better now than they were under Saddam. Who wouldn't thank America for such a dramatic improvement in their circumstances? And the proof of course is in the movement of refugees - - the millions who voted with their feet and showed conclusively how much better the . . . the . . . uh, wait a sec, I was thinking of Cuba for a minute. Cuba's where the movement of refugees proves something. In Iraq, it don't mean shit. No, of course not. Don't follow those refugees, folks, don't mean jack-shit. LIFE'S BETTER IN IRAQ BECAUSE SADDAM'S GONE. THE INVASION MADE THEIR LIVES BETTER, NOT WORSE. Get it?
Does the movemnt of refugees mean nothing in Cuba?
There is a strong Majority of Cubans who hate Fidel Castro with a quakeing passionand can recount a list of crimes against him thousands long.
Fortunately for the perpetual revolution , most of this majority is outside of Cuba.
Saddam Hussein was indeed establishing order but the cost of this was a state of constant intenal war for thirty years , so I think there is a valid comparison to Cuba .
Soon after the US invasion the huge number of refugees expected just did not materialise , but once the Al Quieda also invaded and ranked up their operation the numberof dead began to pile up and the wise , just as in Cuba , began to leave.
Is there going to be a right of return for any of these people?
Hopefully, Plane, they will all be returned.
But none will be permitted to return until corporate america has sectioned off the entire country, like a side of beef. Maybe they still got the old Batista maps.
Pointus interruptus. The people of Cuba, none of whom were communists, did not want Batista to sell the sections to American corporations, and they sanctioned the l4 man army of Fidel to topple him.
Even after it was all over, still Fidel had no interest in communism, and only turned there when America, outraged that their privatized imperialism was stiff-armed back on its butt, refused to help in any way. Beyond that,we sabotaged everything we could.
I would like to read a puttogether about the things we have done to ensure their failure as a political system--poisoned their crops, thuggerized imports and trade, etc. When one reads of just how much the Cubans have endured, not from Castro but from us here, one begins to view Cuba and Castro as much of the world does--with a sense of a powerful prevaling. One then senses the magnitude of Castro's resilience. Were I called to image a stamp, I'd put a slingshot in his hand.
We threw the book at him. He laughed, and the world laughed with him.
Now the resident Cubans will greet the returning neoBatistites?
Just who will own what? (I'd ask Jebbie.)
I'll bet Blackwater already has an impending contract to provide an entire police force to move into immediate place.
"But none will be permitted to return until corporate america has sectioned off the entire country, like a side of beef. "
Who is giveing out these permission slips?
Corporate America feeds more people than Socialist governments , but American coporation presidents cannot force adulation .
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<<Does the movemnt of refugees mean nothing in Cuba?>>
Oh, I wouldn't say that. The movement of people out of Cuba and into the U.S.A. is living proof that people living in a poor country will try to get into a rich country. It's the same phenomenon as the movement of people out of Central America and Mexico into the U.S. It's the same phenomenon as the movement of people out of China into the U.S.
Funny, huh, it's always: poor country to rich country; never, rich country to poor country. Cuba's the best example of that, because Cuba's the only poor country whose illegals are greeted with open arm and allowed to stay. So there's a bit of, shall we say, extra incentive, for Cuban illegals who want to feather their own nests.
Oh, but there IS one exception to the rule: from oil-rich Iraq to oil-poor Jordan and Syria. From a country that was rich and prosperous to countries that aren't. This is ONE migration that can't be explained away by the poor land to rich land imperative.
Strange though, how folks who swear that the Cuban migration proves that life is hell in Cuba won't admit that the Iraqi migration has any similar connotation for Iraq. Life under Saddam, emigration rate "x"; life after Saddam, emigration rate 10000 times x, but hey, the Iraqis LOVE their life without Saddam and the facts be damned if they say otherwise.
It is not a co-incidence that economys are weaker in less capiolistic countrys.
Saddam was useing thewelth of Iraq very wastefully and was killing a lot of people with internal and external war.
When we invaded Iraq there were refugee camps set up by Jordan on their border but these were unused at that time because our invasion did not destroy as many homes or drive out nearly so many refugees as was expected. The fight against Saddam went pretty smooth .
The fight against Al Quieda has not been so easy .
What was Saddam doing that we cannot do to supress insurgency? Was it that the people feared him more than they do us?
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What was Saddam doing that we cannot do to supress insurgency? Was it that the people feared him more than they do us?
Well, yes, actually, him and his army, which was very loyal to him, and very prepared to keep order in Iraq at Saddam's order. The army we dismissed out of hand and sent home as soon as we declared the war over, putting thousands out of work at one stroke of the pen - thousands who were well armed and already had a grudge against us to start with, but who might have been used to our advantage instead. If only the administration had had the foresight.
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What was Saddam doing that we cannot do to supress insurgency? Was it that the people feared him more than they do us?
Well, yes, actually, him and his army, which was very loyal to him, and very prepared to keep order in Iraq at Saddam's order. The army we dismissed out of hand and sent home as soon as we declared the war over, putting thousands out of work at one stroke of the pen - thousands who were well armed and already had a grudge against us to start with, but who might have been used to our advantage instead. If only the administration had had the foresight.
100% agreed
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What was Saddam doing that we cannot do to supress insurgency? Was it that the people feared him more than they do us?
Well, yes, actually, him and his army, which was very loyal to him, and very prepared to keep order in Iraq at Saddam's order. The army we dismissed out of hand and sent home as soon as we declared the war over, putting thousands out of work at one stroke of the pen - thousands who were well armed and already had a grudge against us to start with, but who might have been used to our advantage instead. If only the administration had had the foresight.
It might have worked better ,for all I know ,to have employed the Iriqui Army , how could we have known, or avoided,same problem as we are haveing with infiltration into the present Iriqui Army ?
There were and are a lot of Iriqui government officials liveing in Syria and presumably they couold have used their contacts within the Iriqui Army at least as well as they can with useing infilrators.
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<<Actually, as I've already demonstrated previously, you don't have to take my word for it, the Iraqis themselves have been polled indicating so. >>
They polled a sample taken from those Iraqis who are unaware of the violence.
LOL...perhaps in Tee's twisted alternate version of reality. IIRC the polling was being taken at some of the worst of the insurgent violence. The mere notion you'd try to spin this as some poll of Iraqis who've been living on some deserted island is lunacy at it's finest
<< . . . leading to sure open ended civil war, and an enviroment just ripe for the likes of AlQeada to take root, like they had in Afghanistan>>
Wow, sure glad nothing like THAT has happened.
Yea, same here. Oh, and FYI, I'm able to differentiate between open civil war, where the Government has lost all control, and sectarion violence. I'm not surprised that you can't
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<<Where did they find thousands of Iraqis in Iraq that are "unaware of the violence" taking place in Iraq?>>
Same place they found all those American leaders who truly believed that Iraq and its nonexistent WMD's posed some kind of dire threat to the U.S.A.
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<<LOL...perhaps in Tee's twisted alternate version of reality. IIRC the polling was being taken at some of the worst of the insurgent violence. The mere notion you'd try to spin this as some poll of Iraqis who've been living on some deserted island is lunacy at it's finest>>
What it actually is, is mis-aimed sarcasm that passed way over your head. Again.
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And on a related note, on Dec 7th, 1942, Senate Majority Leader, Alben W. Barkley, lead a Democratic contingent with demands to President Franklin D Roosevelt, that the war with Japan & Germany was lost, and that we needed to withdrawl our troops by the Summer of '43
Oh......wait a minute