DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Brassmask on September 18, 2007, 01:15:20 AM
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Maybe the guy was rude. Maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was an asshole. I don't care. They could have carried him out on over their heads.
Knees in the neck? Tasering? Is that appropriate? I don't think so.
In an age where no one leads mobs in the streets, could this have been a nation of sheeps' Crispus Attucks?
Possibly. I know I believe so.
This is not a Democrat v Republican incident. This is not a liberal v conservative issue. This is a ruling class v ruled class issue. Our leaders are now kings with mercenary armies. Those armies are made up of men and women who fear not getting their check, who fear being seen as weak. They will do as their told by the kings till they grow weary of the kings' bullshit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
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Maybe the guy was rude.
Maybe?
Maybe he was an asshole.
Yeah, he was.
They could have carried him out on over their heads.
Which I would bet, were I a betting man, is harder than it sounds with an unwilling person, as the guy in the blue shirt certainly seemed to be.
Knees in the neck? Tasering? Is that appropriate?
No, it really wasn't. But then, if the guy had exited when the security guards first came to him, he would have avoided all that. I'm not excusing what the guards did, I just think the guy should have known he was not going to be treated nicely. Then again, maybe he did.
In an age where no one leads mobs in the streets, could this have been a nation of sheeps' Crispus Attucks?
Um, no.
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I'm he's doing fine in Room 101.
Did you hear that chocolate rations are up Dancing With The Stars starts again next week?
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I think you trying to make me out to be a government apologist is really, really funny. No, seriously, I'm laughing. I guess you missed the whole trusting the F.B.I. conversation I had with BT. Let's just say that I might partially disagree with you on this one, but that doesn't mean I'm sticking up for the government.
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I think you trying to make me out to be a government apologist is really, really funny. No, seriously, I'm laughing. I guess you missed the whole trusting the F.B.I. conversation I had with BT. Let's just say that I might partially disagree with you on this one, but that doesn't mean I'm sticking up for the government.
Sorry, I did miss that conversation. It is good to hear you understanding that trust is lost between the people and the government in this country.
I understand you're not sticking up for the government and I appreciate that we are in partial agreement. I will say that I view this incident and many others across the country for the last decade or so as representative of that lost trust between the people and its government. When a man is dragged, pleading for help, from an open forum by a cadre of "officers" after rudely asking questions of an elected official and NO ONE INTERVENES or even simply asks what's going on, then we've got problems in this country.
Call me crazy, but I won't be surprised when we never hear of this again in the mainstream media. This guy will be disappeared, I fear.
Further, I hope to see more people demanding answers to questions and when they are tasered, I hope I'm not there and have to ask myself if I want to get involved. Because, I'm afraid I probably will.
I propose that those seeking answers to these questions that are deemed "kooky", "outrageous" or "paranoid" form into cadres of their own and when one is arrested and removed, another simply go to the mic and ask the same questions and when that person is removed, the cycle continue as long as it can. That way, if one is disappeared then several will have to be and that is harder to hide than just one.
Although, lots were killed to cover up the JFK assassination/coup de tat so I'm not sure anyone will believe ten "conspiracy theorists" were "killed" or "disappeared".
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Maybe the guy was rude. Maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was an asshole. I don't care. They could have carried him out on over their heads.
Knees in the neck? Tasering? Is that appropriate? I don't think so.
In an age where no one leads mobs in the streets, could this have been a nation of sheeps' Crispus Attucks?
Possibly. I know I believe so.
This is not a Democrat v Republican incident. This is not a liberal v conservative issue. This is a ruling class v ruled class issue. Our leaders are now kings with mercenary armies. Those armies are made up of men and women who fear not getting their check, who fear being seen as weak. They will do as their told by the kings till they grow weary of the kings' bullshit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
I think avoiding the word "rude" would be wise, since it can degenerate into a thousand entities, most of which would have to do with "political correctness."
If there is to be any change from what we have experienced with the Bush Administration, it would have to include a meaningful and courageous confrontation of "political correctness." This is true because political correctness allows them to prune and edit and censor whatever they deem harmful to their cause. When I say 'them,' I mean the corporate entities, from where it originated.
The guy simply asked Kerry why he did not challenge the Florida election.
What spoke volumes was Kerry's complete silence; moreover, he looked strained and impatient, as if he were waiting for the appointed thugs to carry the guy out.
Now I ask you . . . why would Kerry avoid that question?
Why has he always avoided that question?
Had he answered it meaningfully before this, there would be no need to have to shout it out.
The guy is a hero, and I doubt any hero has much of a priority to avoid being "rude."
Rudeness is forced upon us when we are so controlled so that we cannot function in an appropriate dissention.
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When a man is dragged, pleading for help, from an open forum by a cadre of "officers" after rudely asking questions of an elected official and NO ONE INTERVENES or even simply asks what's going on, then we've got problems in this country.
It seems to me the folks who were there knew what was going on, and didn't have to ask. They probably saw the guy being an asshole, refusing to leave peacefully, and getting what he deserved. Why should they intervene?
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>>Call me crazy ... <<
You're crazy.
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This guy reminds me of Mike! I'll bet he'd be EXACTLY like this guy.
Anyway, I can't see why they reacted this way. This guy is a typical Democrat at a Democrat function.
It looks like liberals have created a monster. People actually believe the lies they've been telling!
:D
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Florida College Student Who Was Tasered, Arrested at John Kerry Campus Forum Is Released From Jail
Tuesday , September 18, 2007
A University of Florida student who was arrested and Tasered during a forum featuring Sen. John Kerry touched off a debate about campus free speech and raised questions about whether campus police used excessive force.
A judge released Andrew Meyer, 21, a student at the University of Florida, from jail Tuesday on his own recognizance. A phone call seeking comment from Meyer?s attorney, Robert Griscti, was not returned.
A video of the incident shows Meyer, a journalism student, trying repeatedly and heatedly to ask Kerry why he conceded the 2004 election after multiple reports of disenfranchisement of black voters and rigged electronic-voting machines.
Meyer was asked to leave the microphone after his allotted time was up but he refused. Campus police officers responded and tried to pull Meyer away in a struggle that lasted several seconds.
In the clip, officers force Meyer down as the student says he will walk out of the auditorium if officers let him go. They warn him that he will be Tasered ? an electric shock weapon used by police to subdue suspects. Meyer can be heard crying out, "Don't Tase me, bro, don't Tase me" before the electric shock is applied. He is heard howling in pain.
As police intervened, Kerry is be heard saying: "That's all right. Let me answer his question." While Meyers was being dragged off, Kerry said, "Unfortunately he's not available to come up here and swear me in as president."
Two campus officers have been placed on paid administrative leave, University of Florida President J. Bernard Machen said in a statement released Tuesday afternoon.
"Administrators and police officials plan to analyze the incident and conduct an internal review and will consider changing protocols in response to this incident, if necessary," Machen said.
Kerry's office released a statement saying he was not aware of the severity of the police response.
"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way," he said in the statement. "I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention.
"I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody," Kerry said. "I was not aware that a Taser was used until after I left the building.
"I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured," he continued. "I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."
Some experts believe Meyer could claim the use of excessive force in the incident.
?I would find it highly likely that he is going to sue,? said Greg Lukianoff, president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, a free-speech group.
Karen Conti, an attorney in Chicago, said Meyer has a good argument for excessive force since officers Tasered him when he was under control.
?I think the police officers were probably embarrassed that this was going on," Conti said. "I think they weren?t expecting anything like this and I think they overreacted."
The videotape could help prove excessive force, Lukianoff said.
?One weapon in combating campus abuses is to show the abuses in the light of day,? Lukianoff said.
But in a juror's eyes, the video might hurt ? not help ? Meyer?s case, Conti said.
?There?s going to be a lot of jurors who are going to say, ?You know what? That kid asked for it,'? Conti said.
The university launched an internal investigation and also requested the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to review the incident, seeking all facts before coming to a conclusion.
?It's easy to look at the video and maybe arrive at a conclusion quickly,? said Steve Orlando, a spokesman for the University of Florida.
The Florida chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union called the incident "disturbing" and awaited the conclusion of the investigation.
"People have a reasonable expectation to ask questions in a public setting ? even if they are aggressive and some disagree with their position ? that is free speech, plain and simple," Howard Simon, ACLU of Florida executive director, said in a statement.
Police are recommending a felony charge for disrupting a public event. Prosecutors will make the call.
Students held a protest rally Tuesday afternoon, walking to the university police department on campus.
Orlando said the university welcomes student free speech, but asks them to do it peacefully.
?Students have every right to go out and express themselves, that?s what they?re doing and they have every right to do it," Orlando said. "We want to accommodate them.?
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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rude-abrupt and unpleasent
abrupt is a action so it`s preventable
unpleasent is subjective so maybe considered unpreventable
meaning rude is possibly one of the most ill-conceived word used today.
if one must accused somebody rude
he or she must provide why and offer suggestion how not to be rude.
I say this because one of my pet peeves is being called rude followed by you know why
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Of course they used excessive force. He was no threat to Kerry, only an embarrassment.
We have a right to question our elected officials about any damn thing we wish.
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There seems to be a lot of acknowledgement that the guy was an ass. That's fine. He barged in and interrupted because he felt he would never get to ask his question.
Yes, his question was long and rambly and loud.
I've been to LOTS of forums where some moron has gotten a hold of the mic impolitely but I've never seen one where the guy or gal who did so was politely asked to leave or shut up wound up being dragged kicking and screaming out of the way to be tasered.
Personally, I wish the audience had gotten more involved.
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Seems to be part of the modus operandi of professional disrupters to not only disrupt but also resist arrest and bask in the mantle of martyrdom.
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Personally, I wish the audience had gotten more involved.
One article I read said that part of the audience cheered when he was taken out.
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I thought the tasing was administered at the back of the room unseen by most of the audience, which might explain why they didn't intervene.
The guy was surrounded by cops. There's absolutely no excuse for the tasing. Those cops oughtta be fired and sued. The kid had a legitimate question and Kerry didn't answer it. STILL hasn't answered it as far as I know. I think this will hurt Kerry and maybe all Democrats because Kerry is a darling of the DLC. At the least it will provoke a lot of questioning by students who might be expected to work hard for the party as to why they should bust their ass for the DLC and its "hero" John Kerry, who did nothing to stop the thuggery.
I think the U.S. (and to a much lesser extent, Canada too) needs a new kind of leadership. Not an elite of arrogant ass-holes who are developing a Louis XIV attitude towards the common folk they think they are born to rule. I am sick over what has become of the Democratic Party.
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I don't see where it was a Kerry problem. Andi don't see where it was a dem problem. Nor do i think the crowd should have gotten involved.
If the cops upon review overreacted i'm sure the authorities will rectify the situation. You do trust the state don't you?
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I think it could BECOME a Kerry problem. Was Kerry waffling? Was the kid long at the mic because Kerry was stalling on an answer? That's one way it could become Kerry's problem. Another is how did Kerry handle the situation as the kid was being subdued and dragged off? Where was his indignation? Where was his command presence? Why was he not able to prevent the cops just by demanding they stop? How much of a chance did he have and how much of an effort did he make? Are the cops seen as rescuing an unwilling-to-answer Kerry from a persistent questioner?
The crowd should have disarmed the cops. They were obviously out of control and a danger to the students present.
And trusting the state is one thing, trusting the State of Florida is another.
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One article I read said that part of the audience cheered when he was taken out.
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But how is this important in any way? There are assholes like Richie-Poo who will ALWAYS welcome the humiliation of anyone who questions authority.
There were doubtless people who cheered at the crucifixion of Jesus. How does that make this right?
We are not subjects of the country. We are CITIZENS. Kerry works for the people. We do not serve the goddamned asshole tasering cops.
There was no reason to cuff this student. He was right to resist. The cops should be fired. They don't belong on any police force3, and certai9nly not a university police force.
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I think it could BECOME a Kerry problem. Was Kerry waffling? Was the kid long at the mic because Kerry was stalling on an answer? That's one way it could become Kerry's problem. Another is how did Kerry handle the situation as the kid was being subdued and dragged off? Where was his indignation? Where was his command presence? Why was he not able to prevent the cops just by demanding they stop? How much of a chance did he have and how much of an effort did he make? Are the cops seen as rescuing an unwilling-to-answer Kerry from a persistent questioner?
The crowd should have disarmed the cops. They were obviously out of control and a danger to the students present.
And trusting the state is one thing, trusting the State of Florida is another.
I don't think you watched the video. The answer to your questions are there.
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UNfortunately I didn't watch the video; that's why I'm not sure how much of a problem this could be for Kerry.
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I suggest you do. Might save you from further embarrassment.
Mr. Helpful
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I'm not embarrassed, in the first place I don't use my computer for watching videos, and in the second place, I think it was obvious from the post that I hadn't seen the video.
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>>Of course they used excessive force. He was no threat to Kerry, only an embarrassment.<<
What exactly did this guy do that was embarrassing to the left? It seems to me he was reading from the script.
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>>There's absolutely no excuse for the tasing.<<
I agree with Mike (somebody please shoot me). If six cops couldn't subdue him, the cops have a problem.
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>>Andi don't see where it was a dem problem.<<
I do. The Democrats have created these monsters, now they have to live with them. They told people the elections were stolen, and now the nut jobs believe it. They have sold their folks a bunch of lies, and it's coming back to haunt them.
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Seems to be part of the modus operandi of professional disrupters to not only disrupt but also resist arrest and bask in the mantle of martyrdom.
I think he just wanted to make a statement. I heard him make one loud and clear after they tased him.
"Owwwww! Owwwww! Owwwww! Owwwww! Owwwww! Owwwww!"
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I think he just wanted to make a statement. I heard him make one loud and clear after they tased him.
"Owwwww! Owwwww! Owwwww! Owwwww! Owwwww! Owwwww!"
Heh. That's funny. But I do have to wonder if folks like the guy asking the question don't set out to end up roughed up by the police so they can claim police brutality and show how they suffered for the cause. I don't mean that as an excuse for what the guards (police?) did, but my cynicism naturally prompts me to question whether the guy was out to ask questions of Kerry or end up on YouTube suffering for questioning authority. When I watched the video, I thought a case could be made that the guy was putting on a performance so people would see him. And frankly, if he was there to question authority, simply walking out when the guard first came up to him while shouting his protest or question would have made more sense, imo. At least then if Kerry was really serious about answering he could have said, "wait a minute, I'd like a chance to answer the guy's question." It would have worked out better all around, seems to me. On the other hand, if the goal is to be seen on tape with police ganging up to abuse, then the guy who asked question did exactly everything I would expect a person to do in order to get that result. Again, I'm not excusing the behavior of the guards. I'm just left wondering if the guy didn't get exactly what he went in there to get. Governments are not the only entities that can have ulterior motives.
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I want that particular question answered myself.
Are there no qualified lawyers who are willing to take on the State of Florida?
Are there actualy no disenfranchised voters existing with the standing to sue and the courage of conviction?
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But I do have to wonder if folks like the guy asking the question don't set out to end up roughed up by the police so they can claim police brutality and show how they suffered for the cause.
Especially since the guy has a history of doing that - getting people to record him doing outrageous stuff and putting the videos on his web site. Also, the video shown in the news was made with his own camera - he gave it to a friend and told her to record what he was going to do...
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New details cast doubt on Tasered student incident
By TRAVIS REED - Associated Press
Sept. 18, 2007
GAINESVILLE, Fla. ? Hordes of Internet and TV viewers have seen police Tasering a college student who was either passionately questioning Sen. John Kerry or staging his most popular video stunt yet.
At a University of Florida forum Monday, Andrew Meyer loudly peppered Kerry with questions about impeaching President Bush, why he didn't challenge the 2004 election results and whether he and Bush were members of the secret society Skull and Bones at Yale University.
Police tried to escort him out after he went over his time, and shocked the student after he resisted and yelled, "Don't Tase me, bro!"
"What did I do?" he screamed as he was led from the room.
An officer, however, alleged in a police report that Meyer's "demeanor completely changed once the cameras were not in sight" and that he was "laughing" and "lighthearted" on the way to jail.
Details from Meyer's online writings and videos also raised the question of whether his harangue was genuine.
Meyer, a senior telecommunications major from the Fort Lauderdale suburb of Weston, has a Web site featuring several homemade videos. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk in a bar while trying to pick up a man dressed in drag.
The site also has what is called a "disorganized diatribe" attributed to Meyer that criticizes the Iraq war, the news media for not covering the conflict enough and the American public for paying too much attention to celebrity news.
Another site had pictures of Meyer licking a woman's face and making a suggestive pose as he stood behind a fake cow. The site listed his activities as "getting wasted" and "being ridiculous."
None of those things came close to drawing the amount of attention Meyer has received from Monday's incident. Various videos of the arrest had been viewed more than 1 million times on YouTube as of Tuesday evening and were in heavy rotation on TV news.
Police said Tuesday that just before he started speaking, Meyer tried to make sure the moment would be saved for posterity, asking a woman to tape his exchange with Kerry.
One officer said in a police report that the woman was "there to film him" and that Meyer asked, "Are you taping this? Do you have this? You ready?"
Another officer said the 22-year-old woman said she was in line to ask a question ahead of Meyer when she was asked to tape, but she did not know him.
Meyer, 21, had no comment after he was released on his recognizance on various charges following a night in jail.
University of Florida President Bernie Machen said Monday's takedown was "regretful." He asked for a state probe of campus police actions and placed two officers on leave.
Machen would not say whether the university had any previous conflicts with Meyer but indicated some such issues would come up in the investigation. He declined to elaborate and would not say whether he thought the latest episode was a prank.
University police said in a news release that officers had been summoned by the forum's sponsors to escort Meyer from the building, though organizers disputed that and said his microphone was cut off after he used a sexually explicit term.
Police added that Meyer was Tasered because he resisted when officers were attempting to place him in handcuffs. His lawyer, Robert Griscti, said it appeared Meyer was shocked after the cuffs were already on.
About 100 students gathered on campus Tuesday to plan protests, some wearing T-shirts denouncing police violence.
Benjamin Dictor, a liberal arts junior speaking for the group, called for the officers to be disciplined, Tasers to be banned on campus and the charges dropped.
"For a question to be met with arrest, not to mention physical violence, is completely unacceptable in the United States, especially in the halls of education," Dictor said.
After Meyer repeatedly and loudly refused to walk away at the forum, two officers took him by the arms. Kerry can be heard saying, "That's all right, let me answer his question."
Audience members applauded, though it was difficult to tell whether it was for the officers' action or Kerry's remark. The audience for the most part sat quietly and watched the fracas.
Meyer struggled for several seconds as up to four officers tried to remove him from the room. He screamed for help and tried to break away from officers with his arms flailing, then was forced to the ground and ordered to stop resisting.
As Kerry told the audience he will answer the student's "very important question," Meyer yelled at the officers to release him, crying out, "Don't Tase me, bro," just before he was shocked.
Kerry, D-Mass., said Tuesday he regretted that a healthy discussion was interrupted, and said he never had a dialogue end that way in 37 years of public appearances.
"Whatever happened, the police had a reason, had made their decision that there was something they needed to do. Then it's a law enforcement issue, not mine," he told The Associated Press in Washington.
Meyer was arrested on charges of resisting an officer and disturbing the peace but the State Attorney's Office had yet to make the formal charging decision. Police recommended charges of resisting arrest with violence, a felony, and disturbing the peace and interfering with school administrative functions, a misdemeanor.
Griscti said Meyer was resting and wouldn't speak with reporters.
"He's had a long night, obviously," Griscti said.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5143496.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5143496.html)
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Even an obnoxious, self-promoting ass-hole (IF that's in fact what he was) should NOT have been tasered in the circumstances. In fact, nothing in that article adds even the tiniest justification to those cops. That was just disgusting.
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That was just disgusting.
Again Mikey, Watch the video. Don't accept the authors filter. Decide for yourself.
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Even an obnoxious, self-promoting ass-hole (IF that's in fact what he was) should NOT have been tasered in the circumstances.
No, only those resisting arrest should be tasered.
And this guy was resisting arrest.
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<<One article I read said that part of the audience cheered when he was taken out.>>
Great line further up in the thread says that there were probably people cheering at the Crucifixion.
Anyway one of the comments I saw said it's hard to tell if they were cheering at the removal or at Kerry's remarks at about the same time that he'd answer the question and there was no need to haul the kid away.
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No, only those resisting arrest should be tasered.
And this guy was resisting arrest.
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But the IMPORTANT thing is that after they turned the mike off, this guy was zero threat to anyone, and there was NO reason to arrest him.
Suppose you are being arrested by storm troopers. Should you submit to them as well, as they lead you off to the Zyklon Playpen?
Once the protester is off-camera, cops can be quite cruel. There are cops who become cops just because they enjoy stomping the crap out of arrestees. This is pretty well-known and has happened quite often here in South Florida.
There was some sort of Interamerican Globalization Forum, and a dozen or so unprotesting bike riders were arrested, clobbered and thrown in jail overnight. We have Banana Republic cops here.
There was no reason to arrest this dude, and no reason to taser him, either.
Of course in ze auld country, perhapz zis is kommon...
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It might also be noted that a taser can be deadly. There have been suspects killed after being hit with a taser.
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Yeah, that's what we need in this country. Everyone deciding for themselves that their arrest is reasonable or unreasonable.
Guess we'll zero unreasonable arrests after that. I don't think there will be any reasonable arrests, either.
Hey! XO has a plan to save the government money! No more police! That's the ticket!
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Yeah, that's what we need in this country. Everyone deciding for themselves that their arrest is reasonable or unreasonable. Guess we'll zero unreasonable arrests after that. I don't think there will be any reasonable arrests, either. Hey! XO has a plan to save the government money! No more police! That's the ticket!
;D
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I suggest that if it is determined that there was no need for force, such as tasering or handcuffs, then (a) the cops should be disciplined in some way and (b) the perp should have all charges dropped against him. And if there is any physical damage done to him, that he is allowed to sue the sumbitches.
These cops were way out of line. Asking long questions is never a threat to the security of anyone.
Politicians like to give long non-answers to questions, and this is also not illegal, although it is a pain in the butt when they do it.
I am pretty sure that in the Netherlands or Denmark or even in most of Europe, this guy would not have been manhandled. Not unless he seemed to be a physical threat to Kerry or others.
These are supposed to protect and to serve. These goons were doing neither.
The ideal number of unreasonable arrests is zero. Any moron could see that this guy posed no threat to anyone.
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Police report student told them: 'You didn't do anything wrong'
5:52 p.m., Sept. 18, 2007
Police have released the incident report detailing the Tasering of a University of Florida student during a campus forum with Sen. John Kerry Monday, and the officer who actually Tasered Andrew Meyer wrote in the report that Meyer later told police, "You didn't do anything wrong."
In the 12-page report, which gives accounts of the incident from the perspective of eight different officers who were present Monday afternoon, Officer Nicole Mallo writes that Meyer would only resist officers when cameras were present.
"As (Meyer) was escorted down stairs (at the University Auditorium) with no cameras in sight, he remained quiet, but once the cameras made their way down stairs he started screaming and yelling again," Mallo wrote.
Mallo was one of two officers who actually rode in the vehicle as Meyer was escorted to the Alachua County jail, and she said said he told them during the ride: "I am not mad at you guys, you didn't do anything wrong, you were just trying to do your job," according to Mallo's account.
Mallo also wrote in her report that he asked, at one point, if cameras would be present at the jail.
The report details the events leading up to Meyer's arrest, saying that Meyer was in line to ask a question of Sen. Kerry when it was decided that no more questions would be allowed.
http://www.starbanner.com/article/20070918/NEWS/70918007/1053/BREAKING_NEWS
Meyer continued down the aisle toward Sen. Kerry angrily, according to police, saying he wanted the senator to answer his question because he had been waiting for two hours.
Though Sen. Kerry directed that Meyer be allowed to ask his question, police reported that Meyer did not ask any specific question and instead "badgered" the senator, and at one point said something about President Clinton being impeached over a sexual act.
At that point, police reported that ACCENT Director Max Tyroler turned off Meyer's microphone and asked police to escort him out of the auditorium, saying, "He had said enough," according to Officer Mallo's report.
Officers then proceeded to attempt to remove Meyer from the room, but when he resisted, they placed him on the ground and tried to handcuff him. The six officers who actually took part in holding Meyer down while he was being handcuffed reported that they were only able to get a handcuff on his right hand because he was squirming so much.
The supervising officer, Sgt. Eddie King, attempted to Taser Meyer on his chest, but he reported that his Taser would not deploy. He then instructed Mallo to Taser Meyer, and she Tasered him on his shoulder, according to one of the officer's report.
The officers were then able to fully handcuff Meyer and escort him from the building. Each of the six officers reported that Meyer yelled things like, "They're going to kill me," and, "They are giving me to the government," while he was being taken from the room.
-- Alice Wallace/The Gainesville Sun
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Police report student told them: 'You didn't do anything wrong'
5:52 p.m., Sept. 18, 2007
Police have released the incident report detailing the Tasering of a University of Florida student during a campus forum with Sen. John Kerry Monday, and the officer who actually Tasered Andrew Meyer wrote in the report that Meyer later told police, "You didn't do anything wrong."
In the 12-page report, which gives accounts of the incident from the perspective of eight different officers who were present Monday afternoon, Officer Nicole Mallo writes that Meyer would only resist officers when cameras were present.
"As (Meyer) was escorted down stairs (at the University Auditorium) with no cameras in sight, he remained quiet, but once the cameras made their way down stairs he started screaming and yelling again," Mallo wrote.
Mallo was one of two officers who actually rode in the vehicle as Meyer was escorted to the Alachua County jail, and she said said he told them during the ride: "I am not mad at you guys, you didn't do anything wrong, you were just trying to do your job," according to Mallo's account.
Mallo also wrote in her report that he asked, at one point, if cameras would be present at the jail.
The report details the events leading up to Meyer's arrest, saying that Meyer was in line to ask a question of Sen. Kerry when it was decided that no more questions would be allowed.
http://www.starbanner.com/article/20070918/NEWS/70918007/1053/BREAKING_NEWS
Meyer continued down the aisle toward Sen. Kerry angrily, according to police, saying he wanted the senator to answer his question because he had been waiting for two hours.
Though Sen. Kerry directed that Meyer be allowed to ask his question, police reported that Meyer did not ask any specific question and instead "badgered" the senator, and at one point said something about President Clinton being impeached over a sexual act.
At that point, police reported that ACCENT Director Max Tyroler turned off Meyer's microphone and asked police to escort him out of the auditorium, saying, "He had said enough," according to Officer Mallo's report.
Officers then proceeded to attempt to remove Meyer from the room, but when he resisted, they placed him on the ground and tried to handcuff him. The six officers who actually took part in holding Meyer down while he was being handcuffed reported that they were only able to get a handcuff on his right hand because he was squirming so much.
The supervising officer, Sgt. Eddie King, attempted to Taser Meyer on his chest, but he reported that his Taser would not deploy. He then instructed Mallo to Taser Meyer, and she Tasered him on his shoulder, according to one of the officer's report.
The officers were then able to fully handcuff Meyer and escort him from the building. Each of the six officers reported that Meyer yelled things like, "They're going to kill me," and, "They are giving me to the government," while he was being taken from the room.
-- Alice Wallace/The Gainesville Sun
This plucky kid is a journalism major.
He maintains an activist blog.
He is an activist.
The upbeat signal here is that activists are beginning to emerge, with exactly the same tactics used by the activists in the sixties, used for exactly the same reasons--it is all that is left to them after the dire controls put in place by the Right. These tactics challenge and confront a stone-walled line of protectionism wherein the truth is controlled and damage is spun.
He was merely speaking truth to power.
And in case some just think him an asshole, to many, and soon many more, he is confronting the locks and chains that have been put in place regarding free speech ever since Bush and Rove and Cheney were elected.
I salute his courage and conviction.
He did what journalists should have been doing this whole while--dismissing the spin and lies and demanding the truth.
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"As (Meyer) was escorted down stairs (at the University Auditorium) with no cameras in sight, he remained quiet, but once the cameras made their way down stairs he started screaming and yelling again,"
Boy, doesn't that sum things up, nicely
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It might also be noted that a taser can be deadly. There have been suspects killed after being hit with a taser.
Probably fewer than those who have been killed or seriously injured by 9mm, .38 Special, .40 S&W, etc.
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He was merely speaking truth to power.
Yeah. I bet his role model is Abbie Hoffman.
Lights Camera Action.
It's all been done before.
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He was merely speaking truth to power.
Yeah. I bet his role model is Abbie Hoffman.
Lights Camera Action.
It's all been done before.
And to good effect.
Without Hoffman and his honored ilk, would the country have thrown Nixon out of office?
It wasn't the blue-haired baptist gentry in America who influenced our country's great rectification--de-ratting the White House--it was people who were activists who wisely chose a guise of flower children in order to confront the military/industrial complex, with Tricky Dicky in the web's center.
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Hoffman had zip to do with Nixon being thrown out of office. It was the bookend to Kennedy, part 2 of the coup d'etat.
Hell, Hoffman and the Chicago 7 helped get Nixon elected.
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Personally, I wish the audience had gotten more involved.
One article I read said that part of the audience cheered when he was taken out.
One time, I read an article about how people cheered when they hung a black man for whistling at a white woman. I guess that means that black man was in the wrong. I must have been reading the article wrong back then.
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Even an obnoxious, self-promoting ass-hole (IF that's in fact what he was) should NOT have been tasered in the circumstances.
No, only those resisting arrest should be tasered.
And this guy was resisting arrest.
Lesson learned? Yes. Lesson? If cops tell you to shut up, then shut up unless you feel up to mind-boggling pain of electricity coursing through your body.*
*Lesson may result in loss of basic freedom afforded by the Constitution of the United States regarding Speech.
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"As (Meyer) was escorted down stairs (at the University Auditorium) with no cameras in sight, he remained quiet, but once the cameras made their way down stairs he started screaming and yelling again,"
Boy, doesn't that sum things up, nicely
Sometimes people inspire millions to action by selfish acts.
Rosa Parks refused to go to the back of the bus because her feet hurt and she was tired. And the only assholes who say different are those who wanted 'em darkies in the back of the bus if they had to be allowed to ride the same bus as whites at all. I guess that's how you see it, sirs?
Even if this guy was a new Andy Kaufman, he didn't deserve to get tasered. Or do you think it was a good idea to send a message to anyone who might be considering a rude act soon?
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There is a thin line between public speech and disturbing the peace. Resisting an order to leave the premises and fighting back escalates the situation. Do you honestly believe Meyer's rights were abrogated?
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Rosa Parks refused to go to the back of the bus because her feet hurt and she was tired. And the only assholes who say different are those who wanted 'em darkies in the back of the bus if they had to be allowed to ride the same bus as whites at all. I guess that's how you see it, sirs?
Not even in the same ball park. He was no Rosa Parks, and this was no such effort to bring about the highlighting of some egregious stripping of someone's civil rights. This was an idiot, trying to make a spectacle of himself in front of the cameras. And in the process get folks like you, who apparently have no problem in suppressing opposing free speech, via things like the support of the Fairness Doctrine, claiming that not only was his Free speech being violated, but that the Police shouldn't enforce the law. Just because he had some Anti-war viewpoint you like, doesn't make him Rosa Parks. Ami hit this on the head early on. Only those resisting arrest should be tasered..........guess who resisted arrest?
Even if this guy was a new Andy Kaufman, he didn't deserve to get tasered. Or do you think it was a good idea to send a message to anyone who might be considering a rude act soon?
I think it's a good idea that when you get arrested for disturbing the peace, you best be cooperative. Unless the goal is to make a spectacle (or in this case, a spectacular arse) of yourself when there's a camera. I mean, Politicians do it on a daily basis
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(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gm070919.jpg)
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He was merely speaking truth to power.
And in case some just think him an asshole, to many, and soon many more, he is confronting the locks and chains that have been put in place regarding free speech ever since Bush and Rove and Cheney were elected.
I salute his courage and conviction.
What nonsense. The guy was obviously not there to "speak truth to power". He was there to get himself in a video being manhandled by the police. The news articles indicate he got exactly what he wanted and was happy to get it. He is a liar and a fraud. He deserves dismissal not admiration.
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Rosa Parks refused to go to the back of the bus because her feet hurt and she was tired.
I used to think that. But as I recall, Rosa Parks said herself that she was deliberately making a protest by sitting at the front of the bus. But even then, she did not sit down to be seen on camera. She sat down at the front of the bus as a legitimate protest. I cannot put this guy and Rosa Parks in the same category at all.
Even if this guy was a new Andy Kaufman, he didn't deserve to get tasered.
That much is true. Tasers are used far too frequently, imo. But I doubt this guy's stunt is going to do much to change that. That is was obviously a stunt is going to severely mitigate any remorse that might be felt about tasering him.
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There is a thin line between public speech and disturbing the peace. Resisting an order to leave the premises and fighting back escalates the situation. Do you honestly believe Meyer's rights were abrogated?
I don't believe I ever said his rights were abrogated, I suggested that in the future that others' could or would be because if the powerful don't want to be bothered with pesky questions, all they have to do is have a cop by the mic and if the question or questioner is impertinent then the high sign could be given and the questioner asked to leave or risk tasering.
If we don't stand against possible abrogation and investigate it thoroughly and punish those who may have abrogated then how will we know when actual abrogation occurs?
I can envision being at such an event and asking a question that may fall outside what most in government would deign "normal". I can also envision getting pissy if the person I put the question to decides to ignore the question based on whatever grounds. I can also envision myself refusing to leave the mic till I got a valid answer.
What's at stake is accountability for the elected official. If I'm arrested, there is no accountability.
At what point do I become a peace disturber? The issue is not technically free speech. It is actually about government accountability AND abuse of power (whether on Kerry's part [not so much] and/or the campus cops [very definitely, absolutely, should be in jail, yes]).
If that kid had gone up and tried to take a swing at Kerry, then yeah, he should be removed. If he had gotten in that swing and was going back for more then he might have then deserved to be tasered. I never saw the kid do anything that deserved tasering. That was police brutality. There were between 4 and 6 cops there. If they can't take him out of the room then there's a problem. The tasering was pure ego and control issues. They wanted him to cower and STFU immediately. We, as citizens, don't have to do everything they say no matter what.
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(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gm070919.jpg)
Violence is always the answer for you guys.
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He was merely speaking truth to power.
And in case some just think him an asshole, to many, and soon many more, he is confronting the locks and chains that have been put in place regarding free speech ever since Bush and Rove and Cheney were elected.
I salute his courage and conviction.
What nonsense. The guy was obviously not there to "speak truth to power". He was there to get himself in a video being manhandled by the police. The news articles indicate he got exactly what he wanted and was happy to get it. He is a liar and a fraud. He deserves dismissal not admiration.
You're right. Gosh it makes so much sense. He WANTED to get tasered! That's it! No problem. Explained away again. WHEW! Yes, dismissal not admiration. Like that crank Cindy Sheehan. Or, or like how gays, you know gays, they CHOOSE to be gay. You know?!? Yeah, they love being hated and they like being beat up as teenagers and outcasts as adults. See, its the victims' fault every time!!!
Unless it's America on 9.11.
Or Jews.
Or Christians (who aren't gay).
Or Republican white guys. (even if they are gay sometimes)
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At what point do I become a peace disturber?
When you're told several times that the event is over and to relinquish the mic.
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>>You're right. Gosh it makes so much sense. He WANTED to get tasered!<<
I don;t think the guy wanted to get tasered (I'm printing up t-shirts that say "DON'T TASE ME DUDE!! as we speak), but it's becoming clear he planned to at least to get arrested. Moments after the incident his friends had his life story up on their web sites (at least that's what's been reported).
Again, this guy is one of the monsters the left has created, and it looks like they've got a problem on their hands.
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>>You're right. Gosh it makes so much sense. He WANTED to get tasered!<<
I don;t think the guy wanted to get tasered (I'm printing up t-shirts that say "DON'T TASE ME DUDE!! as we speak), but it's becoming clear he planned to at least to get arrested. Moments after the incident his friends had his life story up on their web sites (at least that's what's been reported).
Again, this guy is one of the monsters the left has created, and it looks like they've got a problem on their hands.
What you don't realize is this isn't about left and right. Its about getting after the truth. It's about a group of elitist cultists that have taken over the country and want to run everything themselves for themselves by themselves.
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>>What you don't realize is this isn't about left and right. Its about getting after the truth.<<
No. What you're seeing here is a reaction to Democrat lies and other nutjob conspiracy theories. The truth has nothing to do with it. I don't think the liberals actually thought through what might happen while they were telling these outrageous falsehoods and demonizing our elected leadership. The waterheaded masses bought it! And they want to know what the people who made these claims are going to do about it. Since the leftists never really planned to do anything about and only hoped to get votes, they're faced with the monster they created. this kid is a perfect example.
>>It's about a group of elitist cultists that have taken over the country and want to run everything themselves for themselves by themselves.<<
Thank you for providing an example. Mentally deficient people will buy into this sort of drivel as will young impressionable minds.
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Violence is always the answer for you guys.
This, coming from the fella that supports ALF, ELF, and even overthrow of this administration ;)
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I don't believe I ever said his rights were abrogated,
Yet you offered up this guys posing as a prime example of abrogated rights and the ensuing slippery slope.
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You're right. Gosh it makes so much sense. He WANTED to get tasered! That's it! No problem. Explained away again. WHEW! Yes, dismissal not admiration. Like that crank Cindy Sheehan. Or, or like how gays, you know gays, they CHOOSE to be gay. You know?!? Yeah, they love being hated and they like being beat up as teenagers and outcasts as adults.
This guy choosing to act up so he would get pushed around and pinned down by cops, you're comparing that to homosexuals? Come on, Brass. That is just plain stupid. And at no point did I excuse the "protester" getting tasered. That, as I have said, should not have happened. That does not alter the evidence piling up that the guy's goal was to have the incident on video. He was apparently not there to question Kerry. He was there to manhandled by police and have it all caught on video. He was successful. So yes, the guy is a fraud. If you feel that behavior merits lauding, by all means, go ahead. Personally, I don't believe he deserves it.
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Violence is always the answer for you guys.
This, coming from the fella that supports ALF, ELF, and even overthrow of this administration ;)
ELF is non-violent.
And I can only assume that you are talking about my saying we should use the V for Vendetta closing scene at the White House. Or as they say, flashmob it. I do advocate that.
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ELF is non-violent.
"But, during an exclusive interview with 10News, former ELF leader and spokesman Leslie James Pickering, (pictured, left), described the group's members as freedom fighters, not terrorists.
"'Violence is a necessary element of an oppressive struggle,' Pickering said.
"ELF members have taken responsibility for dozens of arsons and other attacks. They claim the attacks are 'necessary actions to overthrow an oppressive government.'"
"The largest and most destructive ELF attack occurred in San Diego last summer at the 206 unit La Jolla Crossroads condominium project."
More at http://www.10news.com/investigations/2856840/detail.html (http://www.10news.com/investigations/2856840/detail.html)
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D'OH..............facts to a liberal, like Kryptonite to Superman ;D
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ELF is non-violent.
"But, during an exclusive interview with 10News, former ELF leader and spokesman Leslie James Pickering, (pictured, left), described the group's members as freedom fighters, not terrorists.
"'Violence is a necessary element of an oppressive struggle,' Pickering said.
"ELF members have taken responsibility for dozens of arsons and other attacks. They claim the attacks are 'necessary actions to overthrow an oppressive government.'"
"The largest and most destructive ELF attack occurred in San Diego last summer at the 206 unit La Jolla Crossroads condominium project."
More at http://www.10news.com/investigations/2856840/detail.html (http://www.10news.com/investigations/2856840/detail.html)
I don't consider burning inanimate objects as violence. Is a campfire a form of violence?
I don't care what they call it, I just hope they keep burning shit without hurting one living thing.
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I don't consider burning inanimate objects as violence. Is a campfire a form of violence?
Firebombing buildings where people might be is violence.
I don't care what they call it, I just hope they keep burning shit without hurting one living thing.
One of these days, they're gonna miscalculate and kill someone. Will you be proud of them then?
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actually you got something
it most likely non-violent
but it`s definately property damage
meaning ALF is financially responsible for the cost
how are they not liable?
all this property damage and somehow they keep going.
if i torch a store I didn`t care for.
I`d be paying for it for the rest of my life.
I think ALF is niavely helping these people get big insurance payouts
notice no aggressive action against ALF
remember most SUV vandalism is caused by the owner who can`t make payment.
ALF is a friend to the insurance cheats
ALF is a dupe to thier supposed enemy.
the real question has any company ever gotten hurt by ALF attacks?
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ELF is non-violent.
Weren't they the ones driving spikes into trees so when the lumberman came along with his chainsaw, the chain would hit a spike and break, with a good chance of causing severe injury?
That's non-violent?
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Weren't they the ones driving spikes into trees so when the lumberman came along with his chainsaw, the chain would hit a spike and break, with a good chance of causing severe injury?
That's non-violent?
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Sure it is, especially if you tell them about the spikes.
Even if you don't, after the first spike, they can consider themselves warned, can't they?
The chainsaw is violent, not the spike. This is a form of forest protecting jiujitsu.
No one told them they could not use the traditional two-man saw.
Spiking trees like redwoods is a great idea if it prevents them from being felled.
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Just so no one thinks I'm quoting out of context...
ELF is non-violent.
Weren't they the ones driving spikes into trees so when the lumberman came along with his chainsaw, the chain would hit a spike and break, with a good chance of causing severe injury?
That's non-violent?
Sure it is, especially if you tell them about the spikes.
Even if you don't, after the first spike, they can consider themselves warned, can't they?
Well sure, they just... B'HUH? After the first spike, yeah, that is not violent at all, except for the part where someone is maimed, other than that, it's not violent at... yes, yes, it is.
The chainsaw is violent, not the spike. This is a form of forest protecting jiujitsu.
No one told them they could not use the traditional two-man saw.
Spiking trees like redwoods is a great idea if it prevents them from being felled.
Jiujitsu? Um, no. It's threatening people with bodily injury. I'm find this turn in the conversation a bit revealing. Tasering the "protester" is a horrible crime apparently, but spiking trees to threaten lumberjacks with bodily injury is some how justifiable. The intellectual, uh, dexterity there is just amazing.
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Is the tazer less harmfull than some of its alternatives?
The sleeper hold might have made this guy more co-operative ,and cut down on the noise, but it causes a death now and then.
Batons ,nets, pepper,wrestleing moves all have some chance for causeing injury , I think the tazer is not any worse in this respect than the alternatives availible.
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Tasering a student is a violation of free speech. Free speech is protected by the Constitution.
Spiking a tree is protecting the environment.
The lumberjack, I point out, CHOOSES to use a chainsaw, or is ordered to do so by his employer.
Not that spiking trees is in any way common, while tasering innocent people is something we hear about on a regular basis.
Perhaps tasering the lumberjacks would be safer. Maybe we should educate the redwoods to taser lumberjacks.
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tasering innocent people is something we hear about on a regular basis.
Funny, I've only heard about people being tasered by the police for resisting arrest.
Perhaps you can find an article about a police officer that just tasered someone minding their own business walking down the street?
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Cops are often goons who enjoy bullying people. When people have had enough, they protest and the goon takes out his taser.
This has happened all the time here in Miami.
Our police are pretty much useless when it comes to catching criminals. They love to screw drivers, give parking tickets, and bully people.
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Cops are often goons who enjoy bullying people. When people have had enough, they protest and the goon takes out his taser.
This has happened all the time here in Miami.
Perhaps you should elect a mayor that will clean house, then.
The cops here in Charlotte, and up in Minnesota are generally pretty nice.
Of course, the cops in Maryland were in many cases goons like you describe, but I attribute that to the majority Democratic support in the elected government.
And resisting arrest is not a valid form of protest.
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Resisting arrest is not a SANE form of protest, but it is definitely a form of protest.
No one should try it unless they are sure there is a camera on them and the cops.
I hardly think cops are bad because they are Democrats or Republicans. The goonish ones are Fascists, anyway.
The worst cops are the Tim McVeigh types who tried to become seals or rangers or some form of elite fighting fart and were thrown out. Those are the ones that seem to be disciplined most often here, according to the Miami Herald and the Miami New Times.
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Resisting arrest is not a SANE form of protest, but it is definitely a form of protest.
I didn't say that resisting arrest wasn't a protest (indeed, it is a relatively pure form of protest) - I said that it wasn't a valid form of protest. The law covers what are considered valid forms of protest. Marches, picketing, etc are valid forms of protest. Resisting arrest is a crime.
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I hardly think cops are bad because they are Democrats or Republicans.
Actually, I said nothing about the cops being Democrats or Republicans. I did mention that they should be controlled by their civilian superiors, who are elected. And in Maryland, the worst cops are in districts that are run by the Democratic political machine. Last time I checked, Miami was under almost complete control by Democrats, no?
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Tasering the "protester" is a horrible crime apparently, but spiking trees to threaten lumberjacks with bodily injury is some how justifiable. The intellectual, uh, dexterity there is just amazing.
That's what I thought, as well.
Batons ,nets, pepper,wrestleing moves all have some chance for causeing injury , I think the tazer is not any worse in this respect than the alternatives availible.
I'm all for anything that stops the bad guys. If they get hurt, well, they took their chances. They'll learn the same lesson this punk did - your choices have repercussions, and sometimes they hurt.
Tasering a student is a violation of free speech. Free speech is protected by the Constitution.
Not when he purposely violates the rules of the forum he is ranting in, then refuses to stop.
The lumberjack, I point out, CHOOSES to use a chainsaw, or is ordered to do so by his employer.
The nitwit in question, I point out, CHOSE to resist and try to continue on.
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I don't consider burning inanimate objects as violence. Is a campfire a form of violence?
Firebombing buildings where people might be is violence.
I don't care what they call it, I just hope they keep burning shit without hurting one living thing.
One of these days, they're gonna miscalculate and kill someone. Will you be proud of them then?
ELF doesn't firebomb buildings where people might be.
If the miscalculate and kill someone, I'll denounce the F out of them. I don't anticipate them doing that. Their whole deal is protecting life so they'll go a long way to ensure that no one is in something they torch. I don't think you understand what they're all about.
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a spike in a tree is intent to harm unless they informed people the tree has it
I don`t recall any mention of warnings
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ELF doesn't firebomb buildings where people might be.
If the miscalculate and kill someone, I'll denounce the F out of them. I don't anticipate them doing that. Their whole deal is protecting life so they'll go a long way to ensure that no one is in something they torch. I don't think you understand what they're all about.
Sure they do. While most of their firebombing attacks have been on new construction that hasn't been occupied yet, they have also firebombed research labs that are in use, in several cases the fires spread to other buildings that might have been occupied. Just because they did their attacks at night does not mean that the building are guaranteed to be empty. In addition, there have been cases of ELF set bombs that did not go off on schedule and remained primed and potentially dangerous until the bomb squad arrived to disarm them.
They've firebombed a few McDonalds as well - how did they know that there would be no homeless guys looking around for a free meal when the bombs went off?
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ELF doesn't firebomb buildings where people might be.
If the miscalculate and kill someone, I'll denounce the F out of them. I don't anticipate them doing that. Their whole deal is protecting life so they'll go a long way to ensure that no one is in something they torch. I don't think you understand what they're all about.
Sure they do. While most of their firebombing attacks have been on new construction that hasn't been occupied yet, they have also firebombed research labs that are in use, in several cases the fires spread to other buildings that might have been occupied. Just because they did their attacks at night does not mean that the building are guaranteed to be empty. In addition, there have been cases of ELF set bombs that did not go off on schedule and remained primed and potentially dangerous until the bomb squad arrived to disarm them.
They've firebombed a few McDonalds as well - how did they know that there would be no homeless guys looking around for a free meal when the bombs went off?
Has anyone ever been hurt or killed by a confirmed ELF event?
The answer I'm sure you will find is no.
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Running around setting fires puts firefighters at risk of injury or death, whether there are any other innocent civilians around or not.
For that they should de-nut the sonsabitches.
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Has anyone ever been hurt or killed by a confirmed ELF event?
Not yet.
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Has anyone ever been hurt or killed by a confirmed ELF event?
Not yet.
Really? Seems to be inevitable .
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Of course they used excessive force. He was no threat to Kerry, only an embarrassment.
We have a right to question our elected officials about any damn thing we wish.
I agree XO.
Watching the entire thing on uTube, I couldn't get the image of Kerry and Jane Fonda sitting in a crowd of protestors during the Viet Nam war......with a sort of similar "angry young person intent"...an severe intent to disagree with elected officials......an intent to make their ideals and passions known ....an intent in their eyes youthful and so very determined......oops they didn't stand up and ask a question in a controlled forum, so they weren't vulnerable to defeat in a crowd. But would they have taken that same opportunity as this gent? I have a strong feeling......based on their strong willful intent....they just might have. They were silent protestors that day on the lawn. This guy voiced ....strike one for the voice.
What's happening to this country?
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The kid was not tasered for the question he asked.
I suspect what is wrong with this country is people see what they want to see.
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The kid was not tasered for the question he asked. I suspect what is wrong with this country is people see what they want to see.
BINGO !!
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Miami was under almost complete control by Democrats, no?
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No, seats on the city council are non-partisan.
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No, seats on the city council are non-partisan.
The city council is not in charge of the police. I'm talking about the executive branch - the mayor and those directly under him.
And even if the city council is "non-partisan," I'm sure the members have party affiliations.
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The kid was not tasered for the question he asked.
I suspect what is wrong with this country is people see what they want to see.
BT, EXPLAIN PLEASE?
What did you see?
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I saw the kid being tasered when he resisted arrest.
He resisted as he was being escorted from the room. Elbows flailing.
He was escorted from the room because the Q&A had already ended when he insisted on asking his questions.
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He was escorted from the room because the Q&A had already ended when he insisted on asking his questions.
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Kerry said he would answer the question, therefore, the Q&A session was NOT over.
Plus, there was no reason for the police goons to remove him from the room. He was not inciting a riot.
Kerry was gutless not to tell said goons that the guy's question would be answered, and then answering it.
It Kerry had had any guts, he would not have allowed himself to be swiftboated.her he should have asked and reasked and reasked again how it was that Juniorbush
was able to avoid service in Vietnam, which he had previously claimed that he believed in and has not claimed that ended too soon, after over a friggin' decade.
He should have counterattacked Dickless Cheney for five deferments as well.
This WAS about free speech. By trying to remove him from the room, the goons were clearly trying to
limit his right to speak in public.
The goons should be fired, the charges against the guy should be dropped, and Kerry should be encouraged to answer the damn questions.
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This WAS about free speech. By trying to remove him from the room, the goons were clearly trying to
limit his right to speak in public.
How can a private Q&A session being "speaking in public"?
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I saw the kid being tasered when he resisted arrest.
He resisted as he was being escorted from the room. Elbows flailing.
He was escorted from the room because the Q&A had already ended when he insisted on asking his questions.
BT,
I could hear Kerry in the background....he was willing to answer the student's question.
The tasering seemed to occur when he was already down. So, how did that help? How many officers does it take to pull down one flipped out mad boy? Those officers acted like power mongers in a rally in Berlin in mid 30's.
It was a strange thing to watch. Who struck first the voice or the taser...hmmmm.....thank God it wasn't Kent State all over again. Shame on Kerry for not taking that passion he once had for his own "war" issues and allowed the boy to stand up and speak.
<<<<<Grimace>>>>>
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There seems to be a supposition that Kerry was in charge of the event.
I don't believe he was.
There also seems to be the supposition that the prankster was tasered for the content of his speech.
I don't believe he was.
The tasering occured when he was resisting arrest.
And the tasering was probably a better option than a nightstick beating or a bullet.
This is not Kent State II. Saying it is equates the dissent of today with the dissent of that era. It is nowhere close. The antiwar movemnet of today is an embarrassment and sullies the memory of the antiwarriors of the 60's.
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The tasering seemed to occur when he was already down. So, how did that help?
Even though he was down, he was still resisting. You can hear one of the officers say something like "let me put these handcuffs on or I'll taser you." Said it several times before he hit the kid with the taser. So, the kid had an opportunity to avoid being tasered.
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Kerry may bot have been officially in charge, but I bet if he had told the cops to lay off the guy, they would have done so.
There was no reason to subdue this guy or to cuff him. I repeat, he posed no threat to anyone.
The cops had every opportunity to leave him the Hell alone.
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The cops had every opportunity to leave him the Hell alone.
Someone asked the cops to do what they did.
Just what I want when I call the cops for someone acting aggressively on my property - for them to tell me that they choose to "leave him the Hell alone."
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Someone asked the cops to do what they did.
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Who was that "someone"?
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Eichman said something about " Ve vas chust followink orders".
Goons are goons.
Kerry was a dweeb.
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Who was that "someone"?
Accent Speaker's Bureau president Stephen Blank - the moderator in charge of the event.
On some of the released videos you can see him motioning to the officers to remove Andrew Meyer.
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He was escorted from the room because the Q&A had already ended when he insisted on asking his questions.
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Kerry said he would answer the question, therefore, the Q&A session was NOT over.
Plus, there was no reason for the police goons to remove him from the room. He was not inciting a riot.
Kerry was gutless not to tell said goons that the guy's question would be answered, and then answering it.
It Kerry had had any guts, he would not have allowed himself to be swiftboated.her he should have asked and reasked and reasked again how it was that Juniorbush
was able to avoid service in Vietnam, which he had previously claimed that he believed in and has not claimed that ended too soon, after over a friggin' decade.
He should have counterattacked Dickless Cheney for five deferments as well.
This WAS about free speech. By trying to remove him from the room, the goons were clearly trying to
limit his right to speak in public.
The goons should be fired, the charges against the guy should be dropped, and Kerry should be encouraged to answer the damn questions.
Kerry's political response to the situation was to watch and wait to see how it played. It is unclear to me just what happened before the incident happened, or if the kid was trying to ask a tough political question, and was summarily ignored, or what; what I did see was Kerry standing silently on the stage, saying nothing, when most of this occured--the rough shoving, the wrestling down, the taser. When he did speak up, if was after he reached a decision with his wet finger in the air.
He said he would ask the question when still on stage.
He got more antimated later with the press, insisting he would have answered the question.
He crossed the field goal line when one realizes, once again, Kerry did not answer the question, and has not to date.
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There seems to be a supposition that Kerry was in charge of the event.
I don't believe he was.
There also seems to be the supposition that the prankster was tasered for the content of his speech.
I don't believe he was.
The tasering occured when he was resisting arrest.
And the tasering was probably a better option than a nightstick beating or a bullet.
This is not Kent State II. Saying it is equates the dissent of today with the dissent of that era. It is nowhere close. The antiwar movemnet of today is an embarrassment and sullies the memory of the antiwarriors of the 60's.
"There seems to be a supposition that Kerry was in charge of the event.
I don't believe he was."
LOL Kerry had the floor. He had a mike in his hand. What was he, silent because he already figured he was not in charge? He could have yelled strongly, inspite of the outcome. This would have made a plus political point. Something overroad that easy picking. Kerry wanted no part of the question, so he remained silent when it counted, and then did his rich boy pout aloud.
"The taser occured when he was resisting arrest."
The energy of his resistence to arrest was reduced considerably because of the drain of his vigorous yelling: "You don't have to tase me . . . don't tase me . . . I'll leave with you . . . don't tase me!!!"
"This in not Kent State II."
Though it may go down in the books as a spark. I think this guy wanted to demand that these kind of questions could be asked and not summarily ignored by the msm. This was a protest of principle. What he was able to fling on the stage for all to see is the content of his question, clearly different from the fluff ball questions the msm have been reduced to asking. Standard protest tactic--make it impossible for them to not cover it.
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Let's review.
The tough question was not asked of the MSM , it was asked of Kerry. Kerry to this date, still hasn't answered.
The kid may have screamed don't tase me, i don't recall, but his credibility was shot when he continued to struggle as he was escorted out of the room.
If you want to blame Kerry for the incident, feel free, but Kerry had no control of the situation.
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(http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/opinion/2007/09/19_cartoon_week41_large.jpg)
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Let's review.
The tough question was not asked of the MSM , it was asked of Kerry. Kerry to this date, still hasn't answered.
The kid may have screamed don't tase me, i don't recall, but his credibility was shot when he continued to struggle as he was escorted out of the room.
If you want to blame Kerry for the incident, feel free, but Kerry had no control of the situation.
I read that Kerry said that for all he knew the gent in question was a threat before the police arrived. Cop out.
Kerry is a wimp.
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Kerry is a wimp.
Kerry was supporting actor in this drama, nothing more.
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Running around setting fires puts firefighters at risk of injury or death, whether there are any other innocent civilians around or not.
For that they should de-nut the sonsabitches.
How about just stop tearing down forests to put up buildings that we don't need or stop making hummers? Why shouldn't we "de-nut" the sonsabitches that do those things?
Makes more sense to me. They're putting firemen at risk AND destroying the world.
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They're putting firemen at risk AND destroying the world.
How do you figure?
I know, by your logic, using wood to build homes causes a risk they might catch fire, thus...
Which is pretty much bullshit.
Arson is what I'm talking about. I used to fight fires, and any fire puts firemen at risk. It's bad enough we had to risk injury or worse fighting accidental fires to try and save lives and property, but as far as I'm concerned, arson fires are attempted murder. And you want to defend that? Do you also defend murdering abortion providers to stop them from performing abortions?
If you want to save the environment, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with doing things that might hurt or kill innocent people going about their lawful business, even for a good cause.
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I suggest that Kerry was the focus of attention of this meeting, that he COULD have taken charge and COULD have asked the cops to calm down and he COULD have even answered Meyer's question.
He didn't, and to me he looked like a wimp.
This guy ran for president. He is supposed to be, by his own definition, a LEADER.
He let himself be swiftboated in pretty much the same way.
Maybe Skull and Bones did make him throw the match.
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I suggest that Kerry was the focus of attention of this meeting, that he COULD have taken charge and COULD have asked the cops to calm down and he COULD have even answered Meyer's question.
He didn't, and to me he looked like a wimp.
This guy ran for president. He is supposed to be, by his own definition, a LEADER.
He let himself be swiftboated in pretty much the same way.
Maybe Skull and Bones did make him throw the match.
XO,
Frankly, I can't BELIEVE others can't or won't see your point here...my GOD...this man was trying to run for the LEADER OF THE FREAKIN' FREE WORLD once upon a time....
Now, I see why he has been labeled a wimp. Perhaps he's on some sort of medication. .....he so damn slow on the uptake.
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If you guys want to bash Kerry, have at it.
But if he were to interfere with the officers in their performance of their job, he could have been the one tasered.
Discretion is the better part of valor, or something like that.