DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Rich on February 06, 2008, 01:29:01 PM
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Berkeley Vs. America, Again
By Michelle Malkin
Wednesday, February 6, 2008
The troop-bashers in Berkeley are at it once more. But this time, the rest of America lashed back. Message to the Left Coast: It's not the 1960s anymore.
On Jan. 29, the Berkeley city council passed several measures targeting the lone Marine recruitment office in town. The anti-war harridans at Code Pink have been picketing the center for months. Last fall, they defaced the building by slapping a sign that read "assasination" (sic) in the military office window. Instead of rising to defend the recruiters' property rights, the city council and mayor voted to sabotage them further. They granted Code Pink special parking privileges directly in front of the Marines' workplace to facilitate their protests -- and also offered them a free sound permit for six months.
In the home of the free speech movement, the peace and love mob abused the power of government to help drive the Marines out of the city. They proceeded with zoning changes to treat recruiting centers like porn shops. They encouraged residents to continue to impede the recruiters' work. Never mind federal law making it a crime to willfully obstruct the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States. If that weren't blood-boiling enough, the Berkeleyites put the troops under further siege by voting to send a letter to the U.S. Marine Corps calling them "uninvited and unwelcome intruders."
Video of the council meeting showed city officials trashing the Marines as "the president's own gangsters" and "trained killers" who are known for "death and destruction and maiming." One of the council members complained that our men and women in uniform were responsible for "horrible karma." Mayor Tom Bates offered to "help" the Marines evacuate.
But, of course, they continue to argue shamelessly that they're not against the troops. Just against President Bush's policies.
Only one council member, Gordon Wozniak, opposed the Code Pink measure -- pointing out that the council was bending the rules, intentionally setting up a confrontation between the group and the recruitment office, and "showing favoritism." He was outnumbered, 8-to-1. Code Pink co-founder Medea Benjamin and her minions gloated over the vote and turned up at the recruitment center to rub salt in the wound: "We are the defenders of democracy, the upholders of the Constitution. If it weren't for people like the people in Berkeley, standing up for what they believe, we'd be living under Hitler."
Her thugs defaced the recruitment center again -- this time with a banner of bloody handprints stretched across the window as recruiters tried to do their jobs.
In another decade, Berkeley would have gotten away with this intolerant, illiberal, un-American power trip. But in the age of the Internet, talk radio and YouTube, word of the siege at Berkeley spread like lightning. And citizens across the country weren't willing to look the other way. The San Francisco-based Move America Forward, led by talk show host/conservative activist Melanie Morgan, launched an online petition protesting the city council measures. Republican Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina moved to strip Berkeley of pork barrel spending worth $2 million.
The American Legion mobilized as well. National Commander Marty Conatser lambasted the votes: "The American Legion not only strongly condemns this action by the City Council but also believes that a sincere apology is in order to all Marines, past and present. What these recruiters do is essential to our national security. Without recruiters we have no military. And I don't think we can count on the flower children from Berkeley to protect this nation when it comes under attack. They have to remember that Marines are not the enemy; the terrorists are."
After feeling the heat, not just from veterans, military families and troop supporters outside of Berkeley but also from their own embarrassed citizens, the council is waving a partial white flag: Two council members will move to rescind the obnoxious letter and Code Pink privileges next week. It seems a little light bulb went off in Councilwoman Betty Olds' head: "I think we shouldn't be seen across the country as hating the Marines."
Too late. The city's "horrible karma" is on full display. Sit back and watch Berkeley be Berkeley? No more.
Michelle Malkin makes news and waves with a unique combination of investigative journalism and incisive commentary. She is the author of Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild .
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Should the people of Berkeley automatically have to like the US Marines?
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The good news is that Berkeley is still Berkeley.
They need to build a bigger base of local support first, so they can stand up to fascist pressure coming in from all over the country. Also a little bridge-building to other anti-war groups. And some public-education to prepare the way, highlighting Marine atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan. With pictures and maybe survivor testimony if available. THEN go after the bastards head-on, make it impossible to recruit killers in Berkeley. Hopefully, this thing could spread.
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Should the people of Berkeley automatically have to like the US Marines?
No. Does the United States Government automatically have to send pork barrel money their way?
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LOL
I go to berkely once in awhile
It`s a becoming a ghost town because of all this nonsense its doing to itself.
the term biting the hand that feed you come in mind.
they don`t have to like marines,but they shouldn`t be attacking them in this manner
("the president's own gangsters" and "trained killers" who are known for "death and destruction and maiming)
that`s stupid funny
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Should the people of Berkeley automatically have to like the US Marines?
No. Does the United States Government automatically have to send pork barrel money their way?
I could care less about the pork.
I'm trying to figure out why the people there must not be allowed to express their dislike of the US Marines.
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I'm trying to figure out why the people there must not be allowed to express their dislike of the US Marines.
They can dislike them all they want. They can express their dislike all they want. No one is stopping them from talking (or yelling) about it. As the article pointed out, it's against the law to hinder them in their duties.
Just like it's against the law for tax protesters to hinder IRS agents.
Or should that be OK as well?
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I'm trying to figure out why the people there must not be allowed to express their dislike of the US Marines.
They can dislike them all they want. They can express their dislike all they want. No one is stopping them from talking (or yelling) about it. As the article pointed out, it's against the law to hinder them in their duties.
Just like it's against the law for tax protesters to hinder IRS agents.
Or should that be OK as well?
Ah, but people across the nation, from regions other than Berkeley applied pressure to them. Why?
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Automatically like the Marines?
I don't suppose you have to "like" them. I would hope all Americans would respect them. I think the freaks in Berkley would at least do that much, and let them do their job, which is protecting the freaks in Berkley's right to act like assholes.
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Let's see ... why would people across the country come down on Berkely in defense of the United States Marine Corps?
Do you really need an answer to that?
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well
I wouldn`t go as far as rerspect
but at least know the difference between a disagreement and acting like a idiot
letting people know you don`t like something is ok
stopping people from doing thier duties is dumb
calling them names does not help your cause.
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Yes.
Recruiters are the used car salesmen of the military world. I knew one (for a different branch) who would go to the unemployment offices and stand in line to recruit without his uniform on - very much against regulation (and the law I'm pretty sure).
So your asking a lot if you want people to sympathize with recruiters who (like used car salesmen) will lie right to someone's face to close a deal.
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Ah, but people across the nation, from regions other than Berkeley applied pressure to them. Why?
It's ok for the people of Berkeley to express their dislikes, but no one else can express their dislikes of the actions of the people of Berkeley?
Freedom of speech does not mean that you are exempt from the CONSEQUENCES of that speech.
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Should the people of Berkeley automatically have to like the US Marines?
No, but vigilantism should get them in front of a court and some heavy fines can then be levied to make the point that defacing property not your own is not acceptable.
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Should the people of Berkeley automatically have to like the US Marines?
No. Does the United States Government automatically have to send pork barrel money their way?
I could care less about the pork.
I'm trying to figure out why the people there must not be allowed to express their dislike of the US Marines.
Expressing their diuslike and defacing public proerty are two very different issues. I do not see anything where it is expressing your Frist Amendment rights to cause damage ot others whether it is be defacing their proeprty or whatever. They should at least MAN UP and take the consequences.
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I'm trying to figure out why the people there must not be allowed to express their dislike of the US Marines.
They can dislike them all they want. They can express their dislike all they want. No one is stopping them from talking (or yelling) about it. As the article pointed out, it's against the law to hinder them in their duties.
Just like it's against the law for tax protesters to hinder IRS agents.
Or should that be OK as well?
Ah, but people across the nation, from regions other than Berkeley applied pressure to them. Why?
Because you are attacking the wrong institution. The Marines are doing what they are told, fighting wars, recruiting those that do, etc. If you've got beefs, demonstrate in front of the White House (the Executive Branch). Oh, that's right; they're too far into drugs to make the trip. :-*
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Listen, I'm not saying that they should be allowed to destroy property or harm a recruiter, or anything of that sort. I'm not even really defending them per se.
I'm just curious as to why all of these people are so quick to automatically defend the US Marine recruiters.
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Listen, I'm not saying that they should be allowed to destroy property or harm a recruiter, or anything of that sort. I'm not even really defending them per se.
I'm just curious as to why all of these people are so quick to automatically defend the US Marine recruiters.
They're Marines...'nuff said. Oh, that's right, MT calls them knuckle draggers.
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Lee Harvey Oswald was a marine. Who cares?
As with any profession, there are people to respect and people who don't earn respect.
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They're Marines...'nuff said.
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>>I wouldn`t go as far as rerspect<<
Sure, why respect a group that puts their lives on the line everyday to protect you.
ppppffft ... big deal.
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>>Recruiters are the used car salesmen of the military world.<<
::)
Of course I believe your story of the one bad recruiter. Sure I do.
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F. Lee Bailey
James Carville
Jon Corzine
David Dinkins
Ted Kulongoski
John Murtha
Jim Webb
Oh and...
Clayton Lonetree
All Marines.
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>>It's ok for the people of Berkeley to express their dislikes, but no one else can express their dislikes of the actions of the people of Berkeley?<<
No they can't. If they do, they're fascists.
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F. Lee Bailey
James Carville
Jon Corzine
David Dinkins
Ted Kulongoski
John Murtha
Jim Webb
Oh and...
Clayton Lonetree
All Marines.
So? You still should admire the institution. As Rich said, they DO protect your posterior each and every day.
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F. Lee Bailey
James Carville
Jon Corzine
David Dinkins
Ted Kulongoski
John Murtha
Jim Webb
Oh and...
Clayton Lonetree
All Marines.
So? You still should admire the institution. As Rich said, they DO protect your posterior each and every day.
First of all, my father was a drill instructor and a Vietnam veteran of the US Army. So you don't need to tell me who I should and should not respect. I've seen the good and bad of the military gorwing up on army bases.
The U.S. Marines haven't protected any part of my anatomy from anything. They are a foreign policy tool, just like the other branches of service. I've asked absolutely nothing of the US Marines and they've given me absolutely nothing in return. That's the way I like it.
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>> The U.S. Marines haven't protected any part of my anatomy from anything. They are a foreign policy tool, just like the other branches of service. I've asked absolutely nothing of the US Marines and they've given me absolutely nothing in return. That's the way I like it. <<
YOu really can only scratch your head and wonder how people get to this point.
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"We are the defenders of democracy, the upholders of the Constitution. If it weren't for people like the people in Berkeley, standing up for what they believe, we'd be living under Hitler."
Hippies defeated Hitler, I just know I would flunk a history exam in Berkley.
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I imagine that there are lots more effective places for a recruiter to recruit than Berkeley. I don't question the RIGHT of the Marines to try, but it seems to me that recruiting in Berkeley would be about as useful as advertising arthritis drugs on kiddy cartoon shows.
If I had stock in the arthritis drug manufacturing company, I think it would be rational to inform the Board of Directors, or the Advertising department that they are wasting their money.
If the goal of the Marines is to recruit, I think they would be better off moving their office elsewhere.
If their goal is to stand up to the antiwar people of Berkeley, then they should stay. But if they are not recruiting successfully, I, as a taxpayer, think that this is rather dumb.
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berkley is a campus town so it`s would be the perfect place to recruit
remember most students are not natives to the place .
so attitudes will differ
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<<So? You still should admire the institution. As Rich said, they DO protect your posterior each and every day.>>
Biggest crock a shit I ever heard. Who are they protecting you from? The Iraqis? Tell 'em not to bother. It's hard to remember the last Iraqi attack on U.S. soil.
Here's what retired Marine Corps General Smedley Butler said about the USMC:
<<I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purifly Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-12. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras "right" for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested... . Looking back on it, I feel I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three city districts. We Marines operated on three continents."
<<In January 1932, Nation reported him characterizing the U.S. military as "a glorified bill-collecting agency" and saying he "wouldn't want to see a boy of mine march out with a Wall Street collar about his neck.">>
The view that these Neanderthals are protecting America from enemies who couldn't and wouldn't lay a glove on it is laughable and pathetic. General Butler can tell you what the Marines do in REAL LIFE. They're thugs and hired killers.
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Hard language and yet YOU SAY I have hard lanugage? A little of thje pot calling the kettle black it seems.
Too bad. I was actually enjoying things again. It appears I have too thin of a skin to put up with this over a longish period of time. You're an ass, I am afraid. Sad to say, but true. Your muckraking of America is simply too much for this thin-skinned prof to handle. You're filled with too much hatred and loathing toward America. Difficult for me to swallow for long. I love this country and would die tomorrow defending it. Some of us are actually PROUD to be Americans.
<I'll check back in a while to see about the "kick The Prof out" poll>>
I'm coming Elizabeth!
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berkley is a campus town so it`s would be the perfect place to recruit
remember most students are not natives to the place .
so attitudes will differ
Excellent point.
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berkley is a campus town so it`s would be the perfect place to recruit
remember most students are not natives to the place .
so attitudes will differ
Excellent point.
Yes , what happens to the misfits of Berkley?
Certainly PC doesnt amount to enforced uniformity on the campus ?
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<I'll check back in a while to see about the "kick The Prof out" poll>>
Tough having a tournament of minds, when half the players forfeit.
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<I'll check back in a while to see about the "kick The Prof out" poll>>
Tough having a tournament of minds, when half the players forfeit.
Ouch! And your point being?
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Berkeley is a stereotype, just like the deep south in Mikey's mind.
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Ouch! And your point being?
What do YOU think I meant?
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>><I'll check back in a while to see about the "kick The Prof out" poll>><<
I vote we ban Mike ... oh, wait ... can't do that can we. Oh what the hell, we're all fascist amerikkkans, we'll do what ever the hell we want to! But before we do, how about all us fascist Republicans find some civilians to kill! Who's up for it?! then we'll find a minority to oppress! And if we have time, we can look for a homosexual and deny him his rights!
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Ouch! And your point being?
What do YOU think I meant?
dunno. probably cannot say since, as MT says, we are not a democracy;we are a fascist state, and fascist states like Amerikka just love to torture. I am sure a fascist state would find a way to virtually torture someone. Like me.
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<I'll check back in a while to see about the "kick The Prof out" poll>>
Tough having a tournament of minds, when half the players forfeit.
Ouch! And your point being?
Everyoe here is a volenteer
nothing is hurt by takeing a break
get a rest , meditate
Do something truely important
Read to the kids
Then in a mood to be generous with your thoughts
Come on back ..
renewed and even more generous
we benefit too.
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Quote from: BT on Today at 07:00:44 PM
Quote
berkley is a campus town so it`s would be the perfect place to recruit
remember most students are not natives to the place .
so attitudes will differ
Excellent point.
Yes , what happens to the misfits of Berkley?
Certainly PC doesnt amount to enforced uniformity on the campus ?
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the students are just kids getting a education
it`s the local folks that are walking around naked and grossing out the students
believe me it ain`t pretty
the term they are thier own enemy is quite accurate.
the place is actually boring
I go there for the cheap software and excellent bookstores
some of the few advantage of a major college town
food is decent
berkley is definately not a party school
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<I'll check back in a while to see about the "kick The Prof out" poll>>
Tough having a tournament of minds, when half the players forfeit.
Ouch! And your point being?
Everyoe here is a volenteer
nothing is hurt by takeing a break
get a rest , meditate
Do something truely important
Read to the kids
Then in a mood to be generous with your thoughts
Come on back ..
renewed and even more generous
we benefit too.
<<heavy exasperated sigh>>
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Geeze, one quote from Smedley Butler, a Marine Corps General, who knows first-hand in the real world what the USMC are all about, and everyone heads for the hills. Just can't handle it. I never knew fascists were so sensitive. Either that or highly allergic to cold, hard facts. Sorry, I'll stick to the nursery-rhyme fantasies from now on. My bad.
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And if we have time, we can look for a homosexual and deny him his rights!
Hopefully you don't have time for that, or I'd have to post a hell of a lot more!
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Geeze, one quote from Smedley Butler, a Marine Corps General, who knows first-hand in the real world what the USMC are all about, and everyone heads for the hills. Just can't handle it. I never knew fascists were so sensitive. Either that or highly allergic to cold, hard facts. Sorry, I'll stick to the nursery-rhyme fantasies from now on. My bad.
Butler may have a point, then again i'm sure aids relief in africa has corporate undertones as well.
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I somehow don't think Butler was describing AIDS relief or any other similar humanitarian ventures. The Marines didn't come to Cuba, Honduras or Nicaragua to heal the sick, they came to kill. As Butler so unmistakeably points out.
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That is their job. To kill. Butler simply pointed out who they work for. Same as aids workers.
I doubt seriously that when Canada donates a shipload of wheat to a disaster area Canadian agribusiness protests much.
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I seem to be losing track of the point of this discussion. There was some ludicrous statement made that the Marines are protecting the asses of Amerikkkan citizens. The counter-argument was made that they are nothing more than the hired muscle of corporate bosses who want to rob, rape and plunder Third World countries, preferably in Central America or the Caribbean. Protecting nobody's ass but their corporate employers' and their own. They were then compared to AIDS relief workers, generally seen as benevolent and altruistic souls, when of course there is nothing altruistic or benevolent about them (the Marines) as they are actually a plague upon the earth. A bunch of hired thugs and killers tasked with enforcing the will of Amerikkka's corporate owners as they go about their business of raping and plundering the Third World. And here we are.
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<<Hard language and yet YOU SAY I have hard lanugage? A little of thje pot calling the kettle black it seems.>>
How the hell can you compare a threat to punch my lights out and make me eat concrete with a quote from a Marine Corps general who was actually there and can tell you from first-hand experience what the USMC is really all about? You've totally lost your sense of proportion.
<<Too bad. I was actually enjoying things again. It appears I have too thin of a skin to put up with this over a longish period of time. >>
Well, you got that right. Too bad.
<<You're an ass, I am afraid. Sad to say, but true.>>
Since when does disagreeing with you or failing to worship at the shrine of Amerikkka the Good and Benevolent constitute being an ass? The person being an ass here is you.
<< Your muckraking of America is simply too much for this thin-skinned prof to handle. >>
Tough shit, Professor. If you're an academic, you really should prepare yourself a little better for the rough-and-tumble of gloves-off debate.
<<You're filled with too much hatred and loathing toward America. >>
They've earned it. I'm tired of making excuses for the bastards.
<<Difficult for me to swallow for long. I love this country and would die tomorrow defending it. Some of us are actually PROUD to be Americans.>>
Well, the better ones are actually ashamed to be Amerikkkans. And I've met plenty of them, too. How you can be proud of rape, torture and murder, all in flagrant and glorious defiance of international law, strikes me as a kind of pathology that will only end in a well-deserved disaster.
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As I recall, my parents told me that Americans disliked Hitler before WWII because, despite his bringing Germany out of the Depression and restoring German pride, he had the nasty habit of sending soldiers ad police to kick down the doors of those who disagreed with him at ungodly hours of the night, humiliating them, and dragging the men in particular off to jail for indeterminate sentences.
This is pretty much what our Marines and soldiers are doing in Iraq. The only difference is that the Germans were more poorly armed than Iraqis are today.
I will admit that it does take some courage to bust down a door of someone who might be armed and dangerous.
I also observe that Congressional Medals of Honor seems to have been awarded very seldom in Iraq, even after nearly five years.
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In a nutshell, they invaded a country, they are attempting to occupy the country and crush all resistance to their occupation, and they aim to stay in that country till it has a government that they approve of - - all of it in flagrant contravention of the most basic concepts of international law.
I would assume that if Muslims tried to invade and occupy the U.S.A., they would meet with a stiff resistance and many of them would be killed in the process. Nobody would mourn their deaths, most people would in fact cheer them and wish for many more to follow.
For some reason, Amerikkkans seem to feel that they have been specially exempted not only from international law but indeed from the normal laws that govern human emotions and feelings. Thus, not only do they have the unquestioned right to invade and occupy somebody else's homeland, they should not be subjected to any armed resistance whatsoever in doing so, and anybody who cheers for the death of the invaders is some kind of degenerate, low-life menace to the entire human race.
What is interesting to me is how the Amerikkkan sheeple ever came to hold this exalted view of themselves and what it will take to convince them that they are no better or worse than the rest of us on this crowded little planet.
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I somehow don't think Butler was describing AIDS relief or any other similar humanitarian ventures. The Marines didn't come to Cuba, Honduras or Nicaragua to heal the sick, they came to kill. As Butler so unmistakeably points out.
Marines are buried all ovr Flanders feild , why?
Was there a payoff for Bellau wood?
The Marines are very faithfull and obeient to the US government , it s th resonsibility of the people of the US to make the commander in cheif an honest sort.
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As I recall, my parents told me that Americans disliked Hitler before WWII because, despite his bringing Germany out of the Depression and restoring German pride, he had the nasty habit of sending soldiers ad police to kick down the doors of those who disagreed with him at ungodly hours of the night, humiliating them, and dragging the men in particular off to jail for indeterminate sentences.
This is pretty much what our Marines and soldiers are doing in Iraq. The only difference is that the Germans were more poorly armed than Iraqis are today.
Funny, I remember this happening under Clinton as well, only in the US.
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Should the people of Berkeley automatically have to like the US Marines?
No. Does the United States Government automatically have to send pork barrel money their way?
If they have a GOP representative, I would have to assume the answer is a resounding yes.
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<<Marines are buried all ovr Flanders feild , why?>>
If you really want to know, it was because J.P. Morgan and other Wall Streeters had an enormous amount of money invested in English government bonds and did not want to see their investment go down the drain.
<<The Marines are very faithfull and obeient to the US government , it s th resonsibility of the people of the US to make the commander in cheif an honest sort.>>
Well, faithful and obedient service is very fine, everyone hates a mutinous bunch of malcontents, but they're still responsible for their actions and they don't check their individual responsibility as human beings with their civvies. I might point out that the S.S. were very faithful and obedient too; as virtues faithfulness and obedience tend to be over-rated in the eyes of some who consider them as a moral get-out-of-jail-free card.
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If they have a GOP representative, I would have to assume the answer is a resounding yes.
Yeah, 'cause we know that Democratic representatives NEVER put pork in the budget...
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<<Marines are buried all ovr Flanders feild , why?>>
If you really want to know, it was because J.P. Morgan and other Wall Streeters had an enormous amount of money invested in English government bonds and did not want to see their investment go down the drain.
<<The Marines are very faithfull and obeient to the US government , it s th resonsibility of the people of the US to make the commander in cheif an honest sort.>>
Well, faithful and obedient service is very fine, everyone hates a mutinous bunch of malcontents, but they're still responsible for their actions and they don't check their individual responsibility as human beings with their civvies. I might point out that the S.S. were very faithful and obedient too; as virtues faithfulness and obedience tend to be over-rated in the eyes of some who consider them as a moral get-out-of-jail-free card.
Their oath is to the constituion , it is up to us to be a good electorate and choose a good Commander in cheif , we can't escape our responsibility by pointing at them doing what we have been perseded to want.
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<<Their oath is to the constituion , it is up to us to be a good electorate and choose a good Commander in cheif , we can't escape our responsibility by pointing at them doing what we have been perseded to want.>>
What are you talking about, if the Commander-in-Chief wants atrocities, they'll give him atrocities?
Would you?
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So, Plane, the Marines are required in your mind to be good Germans?
At the Nuremberg trials, the allies maintained that "Ve Vass only followingk orders" was not an adequate moral response.
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<<Their oath is to the constituion , it is up to us to be a good electorate and choose a good Commander in cheif , we can't escape our responsibility by pointing at them doing what we have been perseded to want.>>
What are you talking about, if the Commander-in-Chief wants atrocities, they'll give him atrocities?
Would you?
Good Americans is a diffrent concept.
During the linton Adminstration Marines were surveyed to find out if they would obey orders to fire on Americans protestin the government .
The First Marines surveyed were so outraged that the surveyor dropped the whole project.
As soldiers go US Marines are amoung the very best. This doesn't mean they won't kill you .
As employers go the American Public is one of the most demanding and unreasonable , but we never let the President go uncriticised .
So why criticise th Marine who are as obedient to us as they can be?
Criticise us all.
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The usual merry-go-round, but I'm still waiting for the answer to my question: Would you?
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The usual merry-go-round, but I'm still waiting for the answer to my question: Would you?
Would I want atrocities? NO
I don't even want war.
I do my part tho , I repair atrocity capable machines , I don't pretend innocence.
The way to avoid atrocity isnot to make oneself and ones country unable to commmit them this can't really happen , it is to be at all levels aganst them.
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<<Would I want atrocities? NO>>
Not the question I asked, but nice to know.
<<I don't even want war.>>
Not the question I asked, but nice to know.
<<I do my part tho , I repair atrocity capable machines , I don't pretend innocence.>>
Not the question I asked, but nice to know.
<<The way to avoid atrocity isnot to make oneself and ones country unable to commmit them this can't really happen , it is to be at all levels aganst them.>>
Not the question I asked, but nice to know.
The issue was the virtue of obedience, as manifested by that collection of thugs and killers known as the USMC. Here's the question again, a very simple yes or no will suffice:
<<What are you talking about, if the Commander-in-Chief wants atrocities, they'll give him atrocities?
<<Would you?>>
So, what's the answer? [ ] Yes [ ] No
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Man ,you are picky.
That is two questions , the answer to them both is no.
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I'm not picky, just like straight answers to straight questions.
Thank you for the straight answers.
Proves my point - - doesn't matter what sort of man the Commander in Chief is, if he orders atrocities, the Marines who deliver are responsible for their own actions.
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>>Hopefully you don't have time for that, or I'd have to post a hell of a lot more.<<
Hey! We found one!
Bugga bugga bugga! ... No rights for you ... bugga bugga bugga!
Wait a minute. You can't be a homosexual, you like Johnny Cash!
Let's see if we can't find one a them fundamentalist Chirstians to lay hands on ya and turn you straight!
Will a Mormon do?
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I'm not picky, just like straight answers to straight questions.
Thank you for the straight answers.
Proves my point - - doesn't matter what sort of man the Commander in Chief is, if he orders atrocities, the Marines who deliver are responsible for their own actions.
So why was the Clinton administration askingthem how willing they were to commit atrocity?
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Hey! We found one!
Sssh, don't tell anyone
Bugga bugga bugga! ... No rights for you ... bugga bugga bugga!
I've got plenty of rights, just like anyone else. It is the granting of a right that is an issue, not the taking away of one.
Wait a minute. You can't be a homosexual, you like Johnny Cash!
Hmm, and hunting, and guns, and fishing, and football, and I suck at interior design. That's the funny thing about labels and stereotypes, like a pair of 30 waist jeans, they're hard for me to fit into.
Let's see if we can't find one a them fundamentalist Chirstians to lay hands on ya and turn you straight!
I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Will a Mormon do?
Probably not, I have one set of grandparents that are Mormon.
And, I'm assuming you're joking here with all this Rich, and that's cool.
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<<So why was the Clinton administration askingthem how willing they were to commit atrocity?>>
Because they care about their country and the people in it. They couldn't see every event that might crop up in the future but one thing they knew was that they didn't want another Kent State and they wanted to know if they could trust the USMC more than they could trust the National Guard on this. Or maybe they just wanted to know what kind of people they had on their payroll - - you know, a character issue. Or maybe Clinton just wanted to know if these guys needed some fire-control and or impulse/control training and conditioning. Maybe some officers needed to be busted down to Pfc and put on latrine patrol for a few weeks.
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http://gunnyg.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/us-troops-asked-if-they-would-shoot-american-citizens1994-combat-arms-survey/
http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=72819
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Thanks for the posting, plane. One of the posts that accompanied your second link pointed out something that the fascists had better keep in mind - - America is no Argentina or Chile. A lot of U.S. citizens are ex-military and gun owners. If Army raids on American homes are in the works, a lot of those home occupants have guns and are prepared to shoot back. This could get very messy.
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Thanks for the posting, plane. One of the posts that accompanied your second link pointed out something that the fascists had better keep in mind - - America is no Argentina or Chile. A lot of U.S. citizens are ex-military and gun owners. If Army raids on American homes are in the works, a lot of those home occupants have guns and are prepared to shoot back. This could get very messy.
That is why I never vote for Democrats.