DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Brassmask on February 18, 2008, 02:28:16 PM
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http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/18/dont-worry-be-happy/
I admit to being completely biased to the appeal of Denmark, as my family is Danish and I travel to Denmark as frequently as I am able to see them. But a recent study has borne out what I?ve experienced myself for years: the people of Denmark are the happiest people on Earth. (study here-U.S. is #26)
But Danish happiness is one that most Americans don?t seem to grasp, because most Americans confuse well being with being well off. Danish happiness is derived from lower expectations, rather than having to be #1. The need to be superlative is supplanted with a contentment of where you are and not needing to keep up with the Joneses. It is also a contentment of not worrying about some basic necessities: healthcare, childcare, education, retirement and long term care. Republicans are quick to demonize the socialism as something akin to the scary Red notion of communism, and it?s true that in a socialist democracy like Denmark, the average person is taxed at about 50%, which is uncomfortably high to our American ears, but ask yourself how much of your paycheck goes to health insurance, childcare, college savings plans and retirement accounts. Few people in the US can say that less than 50% of their paychecks don?t go towards those needs already. In fact, one of my friends discovered that they actually brought home more money by having the wife stay at home with the kids, because her entire paycheck went to childcare and costs relating to her work.
In The Science of Happiness, author Stefan Klein at this phenomena and comes to some conclusions on a meta-level on what creates happiness in a society and the results might surprise you. He finds that there are three critical standards that must be met: a civic sense, social equality and control over our own lives. The more participatory the democracy, the more equal the social and income distribution among the citizens and the more self-determination (meaning not being forced to do a job you dislike because you have to pay the bills), the happier the society is.
That?s not so scary, is it?
You can get the full segment and transcripts on CBS.com
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Don't know what your problem is, Brass......I'm American & I'm happy 8)
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Don't know what your problem is, Brass......I'm American & I'm happy 8)
As a people or a society, we're not the happiest.
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Don't know what your problem is, Brass......I'm American & I'm happy 8)
As a people or a society, we're not the happiest.
When did it become a competition?? Bottom line is that as a people/society, we have the freedom to pursue happiness. There is no guarantee or right to happiness
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As a people or a society, we're not the happiest.
Well, if you dissolve NY from the Union, we'd probably take back the #1 spot ;D
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Don't know what your problem is, Brass......I'm American & I'm happy 8)
As a people or a society, we're not the happiest.
When did it become a competition?? Bottom line is that as a people/society, we have the freedom to pursue happiness. There is no guarantee or right to happiness
Who cares? Maybe, democratically speaking, we as a nation might want to pursue happiness collectively.
I'm happy enough my own self, but I'd like to know that not only am I going to be ok in retirement and if I get sick and my kid is going to go to college but so IS EVERYONE ELSE'S.
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So move.
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As a people or a society, we're not the happiest.
Well, if you dissolve NY from the Union, we'd probably take back the #1 spot
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Why would you say New Yorkers are happiest? NY has high taxes, crappy weather, and herdly the friendliest people in the world.
I've never lived in NY, but I think that Washington State and Oregon are happier than anywhere else I have lived. I really liked NM, too. Maryland and Florida are on a par with Virginia, and after that I'd say, West Virginia, Kansas, Missouri and Iowa.
As a rule, people W of the Mississippi are a lot friendlier than people east of it, except for WV, which is more like the midwest than VA or MD.
I think Mexico can be a very happy place. If you have only lived in one place, I fail to see how you could make any valid comparison.
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if he really believed it he'd move to Denmark!
"studies" can show anything they want
more socialist dribble to push a fraud agenda
dogs are happy too, eat, sex, and sleep
no thanks, i don't want be a shitzu
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Don't know what your problem is, Brass......I'm American & I'm happy 8)
As a people or a society, we're not the happiest.
When did it become a competition?? Bottom line is that as a people/society, we have the freedom to pursue happiness. There is no guarantee or right to happiness
Who cares? Maybe, democratically speaking, we as a nation might want to pursue happiness collectively.
A), I never asked "who cares"? You can care and not be in some race to be #1 in perceived hapiness.
and
B) Gonna advocate we legislate happiness now? Spoken like a true member of the Borg. Sorry Brass, I'm not planning on being assimilated to view happiness as you do. Simple as that
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if he really believed it he'd move to Denmark!
"studies" can show anything they want
more socialist dribble to push a fraud agenda
dogs are happy too, eat, sex, and sleep
no thanks, i don't want be a shitzu
The only thing about that is that I bet Denmark is smart about emigration and so they wouldn't just take any old anybody.
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As a people or a society, we're not the happiest.
Well, if you dissolve NY from the Union, we'd probably take back the #1 spot
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Why would you say New Yorkers are happiest? NY has high taxes, crappy weather, and herdly the friendliest people in the world.
Reading for comprehension issues again, Xo? ;) Try re-reading what I wrote. Ask Plane or Ami, if you need some help.
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Love it or leave it arguments are stupid.
The simple fact is that it doesn't matter if Denmark is ranked happier than America. What matters is if you are happy. And external influences like whether your neighbor is happy should have little to do with your own pursuit of happiness.
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The simple fact is that it doesn't matter if Denmark is ranked happier than America. What matters is if you are happy. And external influences like whether your neighbor is happy should have little to do with your own pursuit of happiness.
Not a better summation could be made
*golf clap*
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Reading for comprehension issues again, Xo? Try re-reading what I wrote. Ask Plane or Ami, if you need some help.
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I thought you meant that you were from NY and therefore you think that if NY were a separate country, it would contain the happiest people.
But if you aren't from NY, then I suppose you mean that (a) you believe that Americans USED TO BE the happiest people, and no longer are, because of all the unhappy New Yorkers, kvetching and complaining and bitching and stewing.
I tend to think that New Jerseyans are probably even less happy than New Yorkers. I recell a New Yorker cartoon, which had a drawing of Donna Karen, looking tearfully at the Staue of Liberty and the Manhattan skyline, wearing a t shirt labelled "DKNJ".
And yes, love it or leave it arguments are really dumb.
I have been presented with no proof whatever that Americans were ever the happiest people. I am happy enough personally, but I am not the competitive sort, and just being happy is fuine by me, I have no desire to be happier than any other person in particular, or even know how one might calculate this.
Perhaps the Danes have been happiest ever since the Nazis left. I imagine they were somewhat saddened by the Nazi occupation. During WWII I would imagine that the Swedes and the Swiss beat them out from 1941-45.
Bhutan is the only country trying for the happiness prize. Being Buddhist helps, I think. But I think tthat Bhutanese were not interviewed for this survey.
Americans came in 26th. That is pretty awful, but there are about 208 countries. I don't know how many were surveyed. It seems to have been only Europe and N. America.
I wonder what the happiest state is? Hawaii? Rhode Island? I really have no clue.
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Reading for comprehension issues again, Xo? Try re-reading what I wrote. Ask Plane or Ami, if you need some help.
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I thought you meant that you were from NY and therefore you think that if NY were a separate country, it would contain the happiest people.
Ummm, not even in the same ballpark. Try applying a little common sense
- Brass says we (America) are not tops in perceived happiness
- sirs comically applies if we remove NY, we could get to #1
- ergo, the implication is NY is not a very "happy place"
I remember some line in some movie, might have been Ghostbusters, where the mayor was proclaiming how it's NY, so of course everyone's gonna be miserable. Somethong along the lines that it was their God given right, to be angry ;)
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The point is not about racing to more happiness with Denmark but that societies tend to be better off when they work collectively for common goals like health care for all, education for all and the like.
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I think that your original statement was vague and ambiguous. Now I know what you actually meant. And you know what I know. So leave it there and adderss the actual issue (or don't).
Not everyone is bound to understand you all the time, after all.
How would I know that you are not from NY?
How would I know about what you remember from Ghostbusters?
I stil think that NJ would come out less happy than NY, because half of Jersey would move to NY in a NJ minute if they could afford it, or that is the impression I get.
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he point is not about racing to more happiness with Denmark but that societies tend to be better off when they work collectively for common goals like health care for all, education for all and the like.
Again happiness is relative. Scandinavian countries also have high alcoholism and suicide rates, hardly indicators of happiness.
If you want universal health coverage make sure everybody pays. If you want universal higher education make sure everybody pays. Pay for it at the point of sale via a sales tax, capture the underground economy while you are at it.
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I think that your original statement was vague and ambiguous. Now I know what you actually meant.
Actually, it was pretty concise to begin with, though I'm glad you're finally squared away
And you know what I know.
Actually I don't. Unlike yourself, I'm not in the business of deciding what other people are obviously thinking
So leave it there and adderss the actual issue (or don't).
I did, which is why this tangent is nothing more than a comical reprieve, complete with smiley face. If you want to address the actual issue, best stop replying to this tangent, and go back to my 1st response. Gads talk about someone with no sense of humor :P
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Again happiness is relative. Scandinavian countries also have high alcoholism and suicide rates, hardly indicators of happiness.
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The suicide rate is probably not a significant figure when compared with the US. Suicide has never had a social stigma attached to it in Scandinavia. Vikings frequently committed suicide and this was seen as an honorable way to go, as in Japan. Hungary has by far a higher suicide rate than Sweden or Denmark.
In the US there is a social stigma against suicide (especially among Catholics), as well as the likelihood that an insurance policy will not pay out if the holder offs himself. So many deaths that are reported as accidents (people driving cars into walls, off bridges, people diving off bridges and walking into the ocean, etc.) are reported as accidents rather than suicides. There is less a financial burden to be paid in Scandinavia upon death as well. Expensive funerals are considered essential by many Americans and rather a dumb waste of money by Swedes and Danes.
Swedes in particular consider all ostentatious consumption to be vulgar. There is the tradition called "Royal Swedish Envy" and there is a specific word that describes bozo who try to appear superior to their fellows that I can't recall at the moment.
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if he really believed it he'd move to Denmark!
"studies" can show anything they want
more socialist dribble to push a fraud agenda
dogs are happy too, eat, sex, and sleep
no thanks, i don't want be a shitzu
The only thing about that is that I bet Denmark is smart about emigration and so they wouldn't just take any old anybody.
Dangit! After you and JS talking it up, I really wanted to go, too!
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It's not a matter of love it or leave it. Brass hates America. He hates it with a passion. This thread was started to point out, once again, how shitty America is and how much better some semi-communist country is. If you hate America so much, and Denmark is so wonderful, pack up your Ron Paul signs and get the hell out. Do YOURSELF a favor and take your family to the wonderful country of Denmark.
Best of luck.
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But Rich...........it takes a village. And we need folks like Brass, & Js, and Tee, and Lanya to tell us how we're to be, act, and be happy. We just can't do it without them ;)
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Don't know what your problem is, Brass......I'm American & I'm happy 8)
After thinking about this for a while, I realize how this all boils down and that sirs has no compunctions with not only admitting it but flaunting of his "ideals".
On the one hand, there's the idea that we all care for our fellow citizens but while it is my understanding and supposition that my own person caring is unconditional and growing, sirs' caring is tenuous, arbitrary and wholly on his terms no matter what.
On the other hand, it appears that while I want what I want for myself and everyone else, I have no need for assurances that someone else is NOT getting something for nothing or more than me while it appears that sirs only wants what he wants and screw everyone else for any number of reasons.
It just seems to me that it makes more sense to buy in bulk if you get a better price. If you know you're going to be buying toilet paper for the next several months and you can get a case for a lower price than what you'd pay just buying the rolls one at a time over the next several months. Buying bulk is better.
If my friends and I want to get together and buy a boat together because none of us can afford to buy one on our own but we all want one, why not do that?
If a nation of people has a health care system and 1/6th of them can't have access to it unless they are in danger of dying in the next few minutes or be saddled with a lifetime of debt and the other 5/6ths of the nation is paying an absolutely outrageous premium for that health care, why not join together and demand better health care for all?
It seems to me that sirs and other like him who reject the idea of social medicine feel it is better to make sure that they can pay that outrageous premium in favor of some rigid ideological and ridiculously stupid stance than forego that stance in favor of not paying the outrageous premium and allowing lots of people who, for whatever reason, can't afford simple doctors visits for low maintenance or preventative care which would prevent the need for expensive procedures for indigent folk that the taxpayer winds up footing the bill for anyway!
What it boils down to is pure radically ideological, selfish stupidity. It's semantics that involves the words mine, ours, yours, free, etc and its immature and retarded.
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Don't know what your problem is, Brass......I'm American & I'm happy 8)
After thinking about this for a while, I realize how this all boils down and that sirs has no compunctions with not only admitting it but flaunting of his "ideals". On the one hand, there's the idea that we all care for our fellow citizens but while it is my understanding and supposition that my own person caring is unconditional and growing, sirs' caring is tenuous, arbitrary and wholly on his terms no matter what.
With 1 almighty significant caveat......they only pertain to myself, and don't obligate anyone else to "see it my way" or adopt MY VIEW of happieness. His "ideals" as such obligate/mandates everyone to follow-suit, based on HIS VIEW of happiness. A not so subtle distinction, in Brass's efforts to paint anyone that doesn't believe in his social utopia, as simply greedy in-it-for-themeselves capitalist bastards
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It's not a matter of love it or leave it. Brass hates America. He hates it with a passion. This thread was started to point out, once again, how shitty America is and how much better some semi-communist country is. If you hate America so much, and Denmark is so wonderful, pack up your Ron Paul signs and get the hell out. Do YOURSELF a favor and take your family to the wonderful country of Denmark.
Best of luck.
Oh, I do not hate America. I do hate some of the things that America does and lately it has been nothing worth liking. When America is run by ideological retards like the neo=cons then, yeah, I get pissed.
I hate Ron Paul. Other than his apparent understanding of how we're hated around the world and that's why we were attacked on 9.11, the guy is a typical hatemongering rightwinger like you.
In a sense, you are right. I could give two figs for the idea of "America" in that it is a parcel of land that is somehow greater and more desirable than other parcels of lands. I could give two figs for the idea that the People of America are somehow more desirable having been born on this parcel of land or past a test that proves they are somehow worthy of being called Americans.
There are Saudi Arabians, Iraqis, Danes, Canadians, Australians, Brits, French people, I have got to believe that I would save on a sinking ship that are entirely more desirable to have breathing air in comparison to the likes of you.
It is my opinion that America is being led down to the path of destruction by like-minded individuals who don't care if America is around or not and they are, supposedly, Americans! These alleged Americans only care about their own wealth and well-being.
So, sorry, I won't be running away like you conservative white-flighter types who simply move away from problem areas thus condemning that area to utter disolution like some predator that kills and eats all the prey in an area and leaves for lusher grounds.
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With 1 almighty significant caveat......they only pertain to myself, and don't obligate anyone else to "see it my way" or adopt MY VIEW of happieness. His "ideals" as such obligate/mandates everyone to follow-suit, based on HIS VIEW of happiness. A not so subtle distinction, in Brass's efforts to paint anyone that doesn't believe in his social utopia, as simply greedy in-it-for-themeselves capitalist bastards
Then if you feel so deeply about not needing to have others see it your way then don't stand in the way of those of us who feel that social medicine is the way to go. Why must you make us see it your way?
What really drives me mad is that you won't even acknowledge the rational reasons (ie my explanation of greater buying power as god damned consumers which acknowledges that you are a greedy in-it-for-yourself capitalist piece of shit bastard) for going to social medicine. You only answer with vague, ideological bullshit.
When you go glib, it usually indicates you have no real answer to the intelligence of your opponents position.
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Danish youths riot for 7th night, several arrested
Reuters India, India - Feb 17, 2008
COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - Bands of youths set fire to cars, buses and schools in Denmark on Saturday, the seventh night of rioting and vandalism in the capital ...
Danish arrests after youth riots BBC News
Danish youths riot for sixth night Sydney Morning Herald
Danish imam urges Muslim youths to stop rioting Hindu
United Press International
all 131 news articles ?
[][][[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
I just bet these are happy riots.
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So, sorry, I won't be running away like you conservative white-flighter types who simply move away from problem areas
Oh do you and your child live in the inner city slums so you can be "close to the people" where you can
try to have an impact or are you just the typical liberal that talks the shit but lives in the middle class neighborhoods
near a Best Buy and a Starbucks?
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<<The simple fact is that it doesn't matter if Denmark is ranked happier than America. What matters is if you are happy. And external influences like whether your neighbor is happy should have little to do with your own pursuit of happiness.>>
I think the point of the survey was that if you're a Dane, you have a much better chance statistically of being happy than if you are an American. Their society is much better organized than your society, so more of them have a chance to be happy than you do. sirs' attitude seems to be, "Why reorganize our society at all, it works fine for me, fuck anyone else that it DOESN'T work out so fine for." Pure greed and pure selfishness, but at least no surprises there. I think Danes are much more mature than Americans.
My wife and I spent a week in Copenhagen in the summer, in a small hotel across from the main train station, which is also the main bike rental. You can bike anywhere in the city and on the main downtown thoroughfares, the bike lanes can accommodate five bicycles riding abreast. Once there weren't any more men's bicycles and I had to take a woman's bike, which I guess made me somewhat uptight and uncomfortable. The rental guy thought it was hilarious that we "Americans" were so hyper-vigilant about threats to our macho image. Very friendly people and everyone speaks English.
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The rental guy thought it was hilarious that we "Americans" were so hyper-vigilant about threats to our macho image. Very friendly people and everyone speaks English.
Please make it clear that youare a Canadian , we have enough image problems.
I was rideing the train to Rome when I met a Belgin with his two small children , I was the first "American " they had ever met , but when their Father introduced me to them as an Ameican tey were incredulous , I wasn't any taller than a regular person.
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>>But Rich...........it takes a village. And we need folks like Brass, & Js, and Tee, and Lanya to tell us how we're to be, act, and be happy. We just can't do it without them.<<
It's the classic "Communism doesn't work because the right people weren't in charge. Smart, thoughtful, caring people like us could make it work." Based on how they treat their own children, I wouldn't let them anywhere near power.
Four one way tickets to Denmark can't cost that much can they?
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>>Oh, I do not hate America.<<
Oh bullshit. You piss and moan about how unfair it all is and how much better it would be if we were all nice little comrades. You've never had a positive thing to say about America in the 5 years or so you've been inflicting your delusions on the net.
To prove it, you laps into, "in a sense you are right ... " Of course I'm right, and anybody who knows you knows I'm right.
So right after times get better for you and you can make your home environmentally friendly, sell it, get a bag of good smoke, and head off into that workers paradise known as Denmark.
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<<Please make it clear that youare a Canadian , we have enough image problems.>>
I usually do, but when I see that I'm making a particularly bad impression on someone, I love that I'm really making you guys look bad. Canadian students, when they travel, are told to always wear Canadian flag pins so they won't be mistaken for Americans and ripped off, etc.
But you never know. Once in Paris my wife, younger daughter and I were standing under a street lamp trying to make sense of a map, when this very well-dressed, distinguished looking older man asked in excellent English if he could help us out. He insisted on walking us the two blocks to the restaurant we were looking for, and as we thanked him profusely, he told us that he wanted us to realize that it wasn't ALL Frenchmen who hated Americans, he himself, for example, would be grateful to them until his last breath. Holy shit, none of us could bring ourselves to disillusion him. For that guy, we were America.
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<<Please make it clear that youare a Canadian , we have enough image problems.>>
I usually do, but when I see that I'm making a particularly bad impression on someone, I love that I'm really making you guys look bad. Canadian students, when they travel, are told to always wear Canadian flag pins so they won't be mistaken for Americans and ripped off, etc.
But you never know. Once in Paris my wife, younger daughter and I were standing under a street lamp trying to make sense of a map, when this very well-dressed, distinguished looking older man asked in excellent English if he could help us out. He insisted on walking us the two blocks to the restaurant we were looking for, and as we thanked him profusely, he told us that he wanted us to realize that it wasn't ALL Frenchmen who hated Americans, he himself, for example, would be grateful to them until his last breath. Holy shit, none of us could bring ourselves to disillusion him. For that guy, we were America.
Don't worry , there is a reason for France to remember Canada with gratitude as well, though Canada had less to give , it gave the best it had.
http://members.shaw.ca/junobeach/index.htm
http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/juno_beach.htm
(http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/juno01.JPG)
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We would have given a lot more if ALL the French Canadians had been on our side.
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We would have given a lot more if ALL the French Canadians had been on our side.
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I had never heard that French Canadians were more reluctant to liberate France than Anglophones. Is this true?
As for Denmark, one reason for their happiness seems to be that they are all Danes and think of themselves as members of the family. Americans tend to be reluctant to share their good fortune, because they dislike the idea that someone they disliker might benefit from it.
It would devastate Richiepoo to learn that a portion of his buck three ninety-eight in taxes might be spent on doo-rags for some ghetto dweller. It would also devastate the ghetto dweller to learn that some of his taxes could be spent on Richie's Grecian Formula.
'
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So, sorry, I won't be running away like you conservative white-flighter types who simply move away from problem areas
Oh do you and your child live in the inner city slums so you can be "close to the people" where you can
try to have an impact or are you just the typical liberal that talks the shit but lives in the middle class neighborhoods
near a Best Buy and a Starbucks?
Rich,
Here again you ask a question when you assume you already know the answer.
Right now, I absolutely DO live in an inner city neighborhood that over the last nearly five years I have lived has indeed gotten better but I won't go so far as to say it is only because I live in it. Though our neighborhood is not so much a slum, as you say, it is the buffer neighborhood between a sort of middle class neighborhood and, as you say, a slum.
When we moved here, there were gunshots in the neighborhood at least once a week but my mother had lived here once for several years and never had any trouble and so when she moved back and looked at houses here again, my wife and I decided it was time to become homeowners for the first time.
Two years ago, a couple of guys killed three hispanic fellas sitting in their front yard. The neighborhood was outraged and so people came together at the funeral that a lot of us attended. Hispanic, Black, White, Asian and though the neighborhood watch isn't run like clockwork, there is an understanding throughout that we are watching out for each other. Since that time, I have come to know my neighbors names at least and my kid plays with the neighbors' kid all the time.
Its not like we're saving the neighborhood ourselves but we at least invest and it has gotten better since there have only been a couple of times in the last year or so that I have wondered if that popping noise was gunshots or fireworks.
There is a brand new school that has been built since we moved here as well and the wife and I have been agonizing over whether or not to send our son there. Politically and ideologically, I want to support the school system and not be a white flighter. As a father though, I have not turned a blind eye to the fact that there have been two high school shootings in Memphis schools in the last three months. I have not turned a deaf ear to the former teachers I hear on the local conservative talk show who call in and tell horror stories of young kids intimidating female teachers. I really don't want to send my son to a gladiator school where he might not get an education in the three R's.
There is a Catholic school in our neighborhood who a friend of ours (who is a teacher at another more upscale Catholic school) has said we should check out. We probably will check it out but I'm not really that interested because I really don't want him to be indoctrinated and then have a rift between the two of us.
Unless our scheduled visits to all of the possible school selections prove to us that he will be safe and get a basic education, my wife has almost settled on a christian school that is very popular here because the kids all go on to college for the most part. They do teach religion (Baptist I think) and that is a real problem for me but we'll see.
But I digress.
Four new houses have been built in our neighborhood in the past two years and my understanding is three more are going to start in the next year. We're are looking at either doing a simple renovation on our small two-bedroom and then buying another in this same neighborhood OR adding another floor (or two if that is possible) to this house and staying. I love our little place because when we bought it, it was literally a dump. I had to totally tear out the kitchen countertop and old cast iron sink and replace them. The countertop that was there was literally rotten and curling. I quite certain there is plenty of equity now and am looking to schedule an appraisal after I make a few more changes in the coming warmer days.
But lastly, you should know, the closest Starbucks to my house is 1.7 miles away and the closest Best Buy (which is very close to where I work) is 12.81 miles away. Just FYI.
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>>Oh, I do not hate America.<<
Oh bullshit. You piss and moan about how unfair it all is and how much better it would be if we were all nice little comrades. You've never had a positive thing to say about America in the 5 years or so you've been inflicting your delusions on the net.
To prove it, you laps into, "in a sense you are right ... " Of course I'm right, and anybody who knows you knows I'm right.
So right after times get better for you and you can make your home environmentally friendly, sell it, get a bag of good smoke, and head off into that workers paradise known as Denmark.
I don't recall you ever posting anything about what's right with America.
I haven't smoked pot in like ten years.
And, yes, America is set up to keep the poor poor and the rich richer.
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Yes, you do digress, a lot.
>>And, yes, America is set up to keep the poor poor and the rich richer.<<
Thanks for proving my point.
Now lets see ... we just got a Starbuck in town a year ago and it's 2.44 miles from my home. The nearest Best Buy is 20.31 miles away.
Now why should this matter?
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Now lets see ... we just got a Starbuck in town a year ago and it's 2.44 miles from my home. The nearest Best Buy is 20.31 miles away.
Now why should this matter?
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Find a mirror, and ask yourself. It's your question.
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http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=5481.msg53344#msg53344
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BO, get a clue and read Brass's post.
But do yourself a favor and don't look in a mirror.
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I see BT. I had no idea why such a statement was directed at me.
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Yes, you do digress, a lot.
>>And, yes, America is set up to keep the poor poor and the rich richer.<<
Thanks for proving my point.
Now lets see ... we just got a Starbuck in town a year ago and it's 2.44 miles from my home. The nearest Best Buy is 20.31 miles away.
Now why should this matter?
You were the one that brought the locations of Best Buys and Starbucks in relation to my house and whether or not that made me some kind of fake carer.
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With 1 almighty significant caveat......they only pertain to myself, and don't obligate anyone else to "see it my way" or adopt MY VIEW of happieness. His "ideals" as such obligate/mandates everyone to follow-suit, based on HIS VIEW of happiness. A not so subtle distinction, in Brass's efforts to paint anyone that doesn't believe in his social utopia, as simply greedy in-it-for-themeselves capitalist bastards
Then if you feel so deeply about not needing to have others see it your way then don't stand in the way of those of us who feel that social medicine is the way to go.
I don't until it mandates ME to follow suit to THEIR way, i.e UHC. Note the distinct difference, yet?? If YOU want UHC, then YOU and LIKE minds pay for it, and leave those of us who advocate individual responsibility & accountability out of it.
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With 1 almighty significant caveat......they only pertain to myself, and don't obligate anyone else to "see it my way" or adopt MY VIEW of happieness. His "ideals" as such obligate/mandates everyone to follow-suit, based on HIS VIEW of happiness. A not so subtle distinction, in Brass's efforts to paint anyone that doesn't believe in his social utopia, as simply greedy in-it-for-themeselves capitalist bastards
Then if you feel so deeply about not needing to have others see it your way then don't stand in the way of those of us who feel that social medicine is the way to go.
I don't until it mandates ME to follow suit to THEIR way, i.e UHC. Note the distinct difference, yet?? If YOU want UHC, then YOU and LIKE minds pay for it, and leave those of us who advocate individual responsibility & accountability out of it.
I'm entirely in favor of that if we can agree that I have don't have go in with you and your ilk on all your wars and murderous empiricism across the globe.
Deal?
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Then if you feel so deeply about not needing to have others see it your way then don't stand in the way of those of us who feel that social medicine is the way to go.
I don't until it mandates ME to follow suit to THEIR way, i.e UHC. Note the distinct difference, yet?? If YOU want UHC, then YOU and LIKE minds pay for it, and leave those of us who advocate individual responsibility & accountability out of it.
I'm entirely in favor of that if we can agree that I have don't have go in with you and your ilk on all your wars and murderous empiricism across the globe. Deal?
Your definitions of "ilk" and "murderous empiricism across the globe" don't jive with mine, I'm afraid. My definitions are connected to the Constitution, including the section referencing PROVIDE for the common defense, vs simply PROMOTING for the general welfare of its populace. So, until we have a concensus on those defintions, I don't see any deal as imminent
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Then if you feel so deeply about not needing to have others see it your way then don't stand in the way of those of us who feel that social medicine is the way to go.
I don't until it mandates ME to follow suit to THEIR way, i.e UHC. Note the distinct difference, yet?? If YOU want UHC, then YOU and LIKE minds pay for it, and leave those of us who advocate individual responsibility & accountability out of it.
I'm entirely in favor of that if we can agree that I have don't have go in with you and your ilk on all your wars and murderous empiricism across the globe. Deal?
Your definitions of "ilk" and "murderous empiricism across the globe" don't jive mine, I'm afraid. My definitions are connected to the Constitution, including the section referencing PROVIDE for the common defense, vs simply PROMOTING for the general welfare of its populace. So, until we have a concensus on those defintions, I don't see any deal as imminent
Surpriiiiiiise, surpriiiise!!
Sirs comes out with semantics arguments to defend his being ok with "our" money being used to kill, maim, murder worldwide while not using a tenth of the amount of money used to kill every year to prevent illness, heal the sick and basically have a charitable outlook towards his fellow citizen.
So for sirs the following is true:
"Our" money being used to kill others > "Our" money being used to heal us
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Sirs comes out with semantics arguments to defend his being ok with "our" money being used to kill, maim, murder worldwide while not using a tenth of the amount of money used to kill every year to prevent illness, heal the sick and basically have a charitable outlook towards his fellow citizen.
Actually, sirs comes out with the RULES arguement. The Constitution is how we're to run this country. If you don't like it, the founders have provided the means to amend it. By all means, knock your socks off
So for Brass the following is true: "your" money is "my" money, to do with how I want the country to be run, and screw the Constitution
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>>You were the one that brought the locations of Best Buys and Starbucks in relation to my house and whether or not that made me some kind of fake carer.<<
Um, no I wasn't. Check BT's link
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Actually, sirs comes out with the RULES arguement. The Constitution is how we're to run this country. If you don't like it, the founders have provided the means to amend it. By all means, knock your socks off
So for Brass the following is true: "your" money is "my" money, to do with how I want the country to be run, and screw the Constitution
So according to sirs, it is our money but it can only be used to kill not to heal or prevent death.
Duly noted.
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Duly noted.
Our money is being used to heal and prevent death.
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>>Our money is being used to heal and prevent death.<<
http://www.cdc.gov/ (http://www.cdc.gov/)
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And, yes, America is set up to keep the poor poor and the rich richer.
I don't think so , why do you think so?
Arn't there many fortunes built by people who started small , like Jacob Astor , just being good at your job , good wth money , and being a leader can turn a little into a lot.
What part of the goernment or society is charged with preventing the dissolution of fortunes?
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Duly noted.
Our money is being used to heal and prevent death.
Thanks for the assist to Brass......though not sure how well it'll be received
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Defense is 20% of he budget.
Direct health care in the for of Medicare and Medicaid is closer to 33% and that doesn't include figures for the VA NIH CDC and WIC programs.
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And, yes, America is set up to keep the poor poor and the rich richer.
I don't think so , why do you think so? Arn't there many fortunes built by people who started small , like Jacob Astor , just being good at your job , good wth money , and being a leader can turn a little into a lot. What part of the goernment or society is charged with preventing the dissolution of fortunes?
No other country on this globe provides the opportunites to rise from so low to so hi, on the economic & success ladder. None. No other country has so many success stories of people coming up from the most humblest means to make something great of themselves, while contributing to the growth of this country. None. You can't chose to migrate to Germany and become a German. You can't chose to migrate to Italy and become Italian. Anyone can migrate to America, and be assimilated, and become American.
But apparently that's not enough, for some.....who apparently know better than the rest of us :-\
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I think that your original statement was vague and ambiguous. Now I know what you actually meant. And you know what I know. So leave it there and adderss the actual issue (or don't).
Yet another example of "if they didn't understand the joke, don't bother explaining it."
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Defense is 20% of he budget.
Direct health care in the for of Medicare and Medicaid is closer to 33% and that doesn't include figures for the VA NIH CDC and WIC programs.
When defense gets down to about 10% and health care gets up to about 50%, let me know will ya?
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So much for the notion that we, as a country, don't apply major $$$ to "heal and prevent death", just not as much.....surprise.....as Brass would mandate EVERYONE follow
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Defense is 20% of he budget.
Direct health care in the for of Medicare and Medicaid is closer to 33% and that doesn't include figures for the VA NIH CDC and WIC programs.
When defense gets down to about 10% and health care gets up to about 50%, let me know will ya?
Why should defense get less than healthcare?
Defense is the origional purpose of the government , health care is optinoal for the government .
Once the government has a monopoly on health care will there be any other option for persons who do not like the governments style of healthcare?
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My priorities are a little more positive and conducive to life.
Apparently all of yours want our representative government to be in the death business.
We just disagree. That's all.
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My priorities are a little more positive and conducive to life.
Apparently all of yours want our representative government to be in the death business.
We just disagree. That's all.
Yes, I am in the government death dealing business.
The government does this well, civilian controll of the government is a good idea so that the government has some limit on how often it uses this ability.
Government healthcare will introduce additional government control of the people , not as good idea as the reverse.
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My priorities are a little more positive and conducive to life. Apparently all of yours want our representative government to be in the death business.
Actually, providing for the common defense is one of the best life saving means & highest priorities we could possibly invest in. Obviously you disagree. So, by all means, amend that damn in-the-way Constitution